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54 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

 

I picked 'popular and well known' games and even stated that they're different genre's so.... I'm not going to say they're perfect examples but they served their purpose on the point.

To be fair to Fortnite it is basically focusing on it's core users by focusing on PvP and lets be honest most people play it for PvP... you could see parallels with conclave versus PvE in warframe albeit the other way round.

Last I checked and from what I can find CoD bloat is referencing the overall size of the install and to be fair A LOT of games suffer from that including warframe (we've currently got 2 rendering techniques included in the install for example) and I'd hate to see how much left over code there is from past events and even raids.

For examples, I would look to games that are good examples of what you want to discuss, not just games that are popular. Because that causes them to not serve their purpose. Fortnite outright abandoned what most of the systems were originally designed for, and using that as an example of 'sticking to your core gameplay' is... questionable at best.

 

On topic, people can't actually seem to agree what Warframe's core gameplay is nowadays. And that's not even 'Liches and Railjack and open worlds', because it's deeper. I've seen people suggest that nuking is Warframe's core gameplay, multiple times. DE can't stick to it if nobody has any idea what the point of Warframe actually is.

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1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

For examples, I would look to games that are good examples of what you want to discuss, not just games that are popular. Because that causes them to not serve their purpose. Fortnite outright abandoned what most of the systems were originally designed for, and using that as an example of 'sticking to your core gameplay' is... questionable at best.

If a game is popular for a longer period of time it is clearly doing something right, it doesn't matter if it's a different genre, the same principles can be applied to any game.  Sticking to the core gameplay (or focusing on the most popular part) doesn't mean you can't go changing the systems in the game to improve it...

 

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

On topic, people can't actually seem to agree what Warframe's core gameplay is nowadays. And that's not even 'Liches and Railjack and open worlds', because it's deeper. I've seen people suggest that nuking is Warframe's core gameplay, multiple times. DE can't stick to it if nobody has any idea what the point of Warframe actually is.

The people that 'should' know what the core of the game is is DE, but they seem to think the kitchen sink approach to game development is best for warframe and it clearly isn't working at the moment.  Going to be blunt... not every idea needs to go into warframe....

Actually I'd probably pick out what warframes core game as 3rd person horde looter shooter (with abilities), even steam describes it as looter shooter.  When I started the game the core of the game was essentially running through randomly generated levels killing stuff and getting loot for it (basically the star map), there was no open worlds, there was no railjack, archwing was there but basically ignored (for good reason in all honesty, which also questions DE's logic in adding railjack) and to be fair the game was fundamentally pretty good (not to say they couldn't improve stuff)  then DE decided they wanted an open world (or more accurately just a bigger map) which turned into the first content island and ever since then the game has for lack of a better description gone downhill because DE kept focusing on the next 'big thing' rather than looking at what was best for the players. 

We've had a small shift in this at the start of the year with DE reworking some of the basics in game (think shields, damage etc) but at the same time DE are still stuck trying to do another 'big thing' for the next update with new war and plains of duviri (which are already later than planned) and in all honesty likelihood I'm expecting them to be another content island with their own massive grind stuck to it. 

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11 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

If a game is popular for a longer period of time it is clearly doing something right, it doesn't matter if it's a different genre, the same principles can be applied to any game.  Sticking to the core gameplay (or focusing on the most popular part) doesn't mean you can't go changing the systems in the game to improve it...

It might be doing SOMETHING right, but that doesn't mean the something is what you want to discuss. For example, it could be argued that Call of Duty is only doing as well as it is because of its household name status. Certainly something right, but not necessarily something applicable to Warframe.

13 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

The people that 'should' know what the core of the game is is DE, but they seem to think the kitchen sink approach to game development is best for warframe and it clearly isn't working at the moment.  Going to be blunt... not every idea needs to go into warframe....

Actually I'd probably pick out what warframes core game as 3rd person horde looter shooter (with abilities), even steam describes it as looter shooter.  When I started the game the core of the game was essentially running through randomly generated levels killing stuff and getting loot for it (basically the star map), there was no open worlds, there was no railjack, archwing was there but basically ignored (for good reason in all honesty, which also questions DE's logic in adding railjack) and to be fair the game was fundamentally pretty good (not to say they couldn't improve stuff)  then DE decided they wanted an open world (or more accurately just a bigger map) which turned into the first content island and ever since then the game has for lack of a better description gone downhill because DE kept focusing on the next 'big thing' rather than looking at what was best for the players. 

We've had a small shift in this at the start of the year with DE reworking some of the basics in game (think shields, damage etc) but at the same time DE are still stuck trying to do another 'big thing' for the next update with new war and plains of duviri (which are already later than planned) and in all honesty likelihood I'm expecting them to be another content island with their own massive grind stuck to it. 

Same point - what you pick out doesn't really matter if the community or more importantly, if the devs can't decide. I've been part of the Sonic fandom long enough to know that you can't please everyone. Hopefully they'll continue with the Revised trend (most of this years updates have followed that, Scarlet Spear being the outlier) past the Archwing rework we know is incoming, but we don't know.

For me, I would like to see Empyrean continue to be updated and become the core game mode - I've been playing Titanfall, and that's given me great faith that, pulled off well, such a setup (combining two substantially different forms of play) can be highly successful. It lies with DE to succeed with that.

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25 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

It might be doing SOMETHING right, but that doesn't mean the something is what you want to discuss. For example, it could be argued that Call of Duty is only doing as well as it is because of its household name status. Certainly something right, but not necessarily something applicable to Warframe.

I wouldn't say it's all down to the name, there are plenty of 'household name' or games associated with big names that have failed to take off due to poor choices and decisions... you only have to look at EA and anthem, it looked pretty good in the original trailer but failed pretty hard on release. 

 

25 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Same point - what you pick out doesn't really matter if the community or more importantly, if the devs can't decide. I've been part of the Sonic fandom long enough to know that you can't please everyone. Hopefully they'll continue with the Revised trend (most of this years updates have followed that, Scarlet Spear being the outlier) past the Archwing rework we know is incoming, but we don't know.

IF the dev's don't know what sort of game they want to make and keep changing it with each major update how can you expect a decent game to be made.... hence my kitchen sink comments.  We went from randomly generated maps (star map) to open worlds which at least had some sort of similarities and then we jumped to railjack (which admittedly you could argue is open world, just in space) with a completely different model of gameplay (and arguably interface) and no association to anything else (currently) in game other than a 'quest' to link it to the rest of the game...

 

25 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

For me, I would like to see Empyrean continue to be updated and become the core game mode - I've been playing Titanfall, and that's given me great faith that, pulled off well, such a setup (combining two substantially different forms of play) can be highly successful. It lies with DE to succeed with that.

To be fair never played Titanfall but last I checked it was designed with the entire concept from the start... railack is essentially another 'bolted on' part which will be shoehorned into as much as possible to make it seem like it was a good addition, just like operators were.  Considering some of the complaints about railjack are 'I'm not using my warframe' it's not likely any changes are suddenly going to make those people enjoy playing railjack...and to be fair with the current approach to railjack, it's not like you need anyone other than the pilot anyway.  Now don't get me wrong, I quite like the maps they've given to railjack and it's actually quite fun to use the archwings (well amesha) but with railjacks it just doesn't work for me.

Also this might be my experience (as I've felt matchmaking is buggy of late) but I can literally go into railjack and there will be no open groups anywhere..... I'd love to see some actual stats on railjack as that would say whether it's worth continuing with imo. 

At the most simple level you can't assume that something that was never originally intended as part of the core game is going to work well for players who came to warframe due to the original approach to the game, personally I don't like railjack, I've levelled everything up (took advantage of booster weekends) but it's anything but fun (yes different people and all that) and imo a game mode needs to be fun first and foremost.

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Mecha,

Good day, I will respond to your comments soon. The couple sentences that I read of your comments, was time well spent. 

Additionally, I removed some of my comments, to avoid generating responses that might be aimed at a person, instead of aimed at the problem. I have not read all the comments, to determine if that happened, however, I do not want to cause such comments.

I will read all the comments on this post. After which, I will add an excel file with suggestions. The aim of the excel file will be to make suggestions to DE. The file will be kept online to collect suggestions to send to DE. Those suggestions will be how to have more engaging content, instead of bullet-sponges, nerfs, and grind.

 

 

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