Whats the point of exalted weapons not being able to use mods like blood rush or weeping wounds?

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

I dont get it. I feel like they should. The only possible explanation I can think of is "but that would be power creep" but i doubt that, considering how insanely strong some melee weapons are right now.

I feel like with the exception of baruuk's fists the exalted weapons are kinda meh. 

[TheKazz91]

Because DE feels like it's a good design to make some warframe's 4th ability a strictly worse version of every other warframe's ability to press E....

[Voltage]

8 minutes ago, TheKazz91 said:

Because DE feels like it's a good design to make some warframe's 4th ability a strictly worse version of every other warframe's ability to press E....

This isn't new. There was a time when it was "unintended" for Mesa to benefit from Arcane Velocity on her Regulators. That one didn't go over well.

[-NICHE-]

It made sense pre-3.0 because Exalted Weapons had pretty strong stats compared to normal melee. But after 3.0, every other melee got a huge touchup for base damage, crit, status, and Exalteds received very little or none. Now they don't feel like a huge powerup when something like Kronen gets almost 200% CC and SC.

I think there would be some mechanical nuisances as well if it were to be implemented ex. Desert Wind and Exalted Blade waves not generating combo, and the additional of powerful crit/status boosts would probably lead to a nerf in base stats. But I still support it either way - right now, a fully modded Venka Prime outscales a fully modded Valkyr Talons, and that's an issue.

[Drachnyn]

It was questionable even before the melee rework. Exalted weapons need to be stronger than normal melee weapons, otherwise there is no point in ever using them.

[Hixlysss]

The point is "Balance". Honestly at this point I *really* don't get DE's idea behind this. Like, on one hand, some of the exalted weapons are fine, like Valkyr's Talons, or Baruuk's ult(which just gets better with his augment) because their base stats(Crit specifically) are high, and come with alternative bonuses(Hysteria Talons give you immortality and life steam, Baruuk gives DR if memory serves) but others like Excal's Exalted Blade or Wukong's Iron Staff are just...meh? Like Excal's sword is rather basic outside of "whoosh energy beam with each swing" and Wukong's is just...fancy staff.

DE has 2 routes to take...or 3 really. First route, allow exalted weapons to use the acolyte mods. Second, buff the exalted weapons to be, imo, better than standard melee...because CMON it requires energy to use? Like why wouldn't my specially built weapon made out of energy or summoned from the void, be better than this random staff made in a factory? Third option...DE comes out and actually explains why they don't do this. DE used to be good about this, explaining why X or Y works as it does.

[SneakyErvin]

It will be hard with Baruuk and Excal to add it since currently they are designed so their ranged portion of the skills arent building combo. I think this is done to balance those skills. On Wukong and Valkyr though there seems to be little reason to not allow acolyte mods since they are just regular melee weapons really.

They'd need to rework and rebalance Exalted Blade and Serene Storm for it to both work and not be OP on the ranged part of those skills.

[PookieNumnums]

BaLaNcE

[DeMonkey]

Anyone looking at the system long enough for two brain cells to rub together can see that the system isn't in place for a reason and thus has no "point", it exists simply out of neglect.

[Drachnyn]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb SneakyErvin:

It will be hard with Baruuk and Excal to add it since currently they are designed so their ranged portion of the skills arent building combo. I think this is done to balance those skills. On Wukong and Valkyr though there seems to be little reason to not allow acolyte mods since they are just regular melee weapons really.

They'd need to rework and rebalance Exalted Blade and Serene Storm for it to both work and not be OP on the ranged part of those skills.

Combo is already restricted on excal and baruuk, with excal's waves not profiting from combo at all and baruuk's waves not being able to build combo. So even if they had access to bloodrush it would be limited by restrictions already placed on the weapons. 

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, TheKazz91 said:

Because DE feels like it's a good design to make some warframe's 4th ability a strictly worse version of every other warframe's ability to press E....

This.... theres a good chunk of normal none energy draining melee weapons that deal more damage than some exhalted weapons at 200% Strength....

59 minutes ago, Voltage said:

This isn't new. There was a time when it was "unintended" for Mesa to benefit from Arcane Velocity on her Regulators. That one didn't go over well.

Yeah i remember that....

 

[SneakyErvin]

25 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Combo is already restricted on excal and baruuk, with excal's waves not profiting from combo at all and baruuk's waves not being able to build combo. So even if they had access to bloodrush it would be limited by restrictions already placed on the weapons. 

Yeah thats why I think they'd need a rebalance and rework so both skills can benefit fully from such mods incase it ever becomes a thing. There's already issues with Baruuk and Condition Overload since the melee strikes are effected but not his waves, same deal for Healing Return. Would be nice if they could streamline the skills into a coherrant mechanic we can rely on when building.

edit: Maybe it is time they add optional stances for Baruuk and Excal, so we can go "pure" melee with them if we like, or have the ranged stances like now.

[kwlingo]

DE doesn't want balance with exalted weapons.

[BahamutKaiser]

I'm not sure what anyone is taking about, my chromatic blade still 3 hits Kuva Flood Juggernauts, no combo. 

Exalted weapons allow frames to stat stick gladiator mods on a second melee weapon, is there some documentation of fully built exalted weapons under performing? The only one I'm unsatisfied with is Valkyr, because her hysterical assault interferes with my combo diversity. 

[Lutesque]

On 2020-07-07 at 1:47 AM, BahamutKaiser said:

I'm not sure what anyone is taking about, my chromatic blade still 3 hits Kuva Flood Juggernauts, no combo

My Khora with a Max Combo was one shotting Heavy Gunners in one hour Kuva Survival fissure.... which is is significantly tougher than anything you would find in a Kuva Flood.... except if the flood is taking place on the new Tile Set then Treasure Boy might need additional shots.

On 2020-07-07 at 1:47 AM, BahamutKaiser said:

Exalted weapons allow frames to stat stick gladiator mods on a second melee weapon, is there some documentation of fully built exalted weapons under performing?

Yes ... from my testing last night your very own  Umbra's Chromatic Blade was the most Dissapointing out of all of them, Wukong's Iron Staff, Valkyr's Claws and ofcourse Baruuk's Desert wind (with the augment) all ran circles around Chromatic Blade.... Radiant Finish is better anyways....

Also i found out last night that you can not use the Lazers on the void defense tile to lower Baruuk's Restraint... that kinda sucks.... that being said i found that Guardian Derision really helps in those situations.

On 2020-07-07 at 1:47 AM, BahamutKaiser said:

The only one I'm unsatisfied with is Valkyr, because her hysterical assault interferes with my combo diversity. 

You mean the exilus augment ? 

Have you tried removing it ? 

[BahamutKaiser]

The subject is blood rush and weeping wounds on exalted weapons, not exalted weapons compared to meta which also surpasses the subject reference. 

[Lutesque]

13 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

The subject is blood rush and weeping wounds on exalted weapons, not exalted weapons compared to meta which also surpasses the subject reference. 

Why do i get the feeling you've never play any content passed level 50... in every single thread you seem to have this notion that everything would be overpowered or exploitable if it got even just a tiny improvement. 

[BahamutKaiser]

Who said overpowered? We're discussing whether exalted weapons are too weak without these mods?

Can you find the subject? 

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

8 minutes ago, BahamutKaiser said:

Who said overpowered? We're discussing whether exalted weapons are too weak without these mods?

Can you find the subject? 

Many of them are too weak without those mods. Wukong and Valkyr being prime examples unless you go all out with nearly max power strength of 348%!

[BahamutKaiser]

I hadn't noticed, but would it be better to allow two mods? Or boost core damage? Chromatic Blade doesn't even have slash damage. 

[Lutesque]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Many of them are too weak without those mods. Wukong and Valkyr being prime examples unless you go all out with nearly max power strength of 348%!

I feel like For Wukong thats fine if you already have those mods upgraded. Does he need range or duration for anything? Armor maybe ? (this used to be irrelevant before Arcane Guardian got nerfed) 

Valkyr is a different story because she has Warcry.... which is a pretty damn good ability and attempting to mod for that just hurts your Hysteria damage.

Baruuk is wonky.... i havent wrapped my head around how exactly you are suppose to mod or play him because his Kit Contradicts itself. 

And Excalibur is Excalibur..... you know how he is.... his kit works.... its not the best thing in the world but it works.

 

[Nezha_Rose]

How to use exalted

Is it a mesa? Yes

Is it anyone else? Use a good melee instead and save your energy to use the rest of your kit for survival, CC or support.

 

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

9 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I feel like For Wukong thats fine if you already have those mods upgraded. Does he need range or duration for anything? Armor maybe ? (this used to be irrelevant before Arcane Guardian got nerfed) 

Valkyr is a different story because she has Warcry.... which is a pretty damn good ability and attempting to mod for that just hurts your Hysteria damage.

Baruuk is wonky.... i havent wrapped my head around how exactly you are suppose to mod or play him because his Kit Contradicts itself. 

And Excalibur is Excalibur..... you know how he is.... his kit works.... its not the best thing in the world but it works.

 

Baruuk is actually really good and doesn't really need a buff because his exalted has the largest attack area and can clear rooms provided that you're using Reactive Storm! I just mod for damage and sheilds with Adaptation. I gave him just a tiny bit of range so his 1 has 207° of protection Which easily covers everything in front of him and a bit twords his sides.

And the stats I have for him are

Duration 155%

Efficiency 45%

Range 115%

Strength 267%

With Redirection, Primed Flow, and Reactive Storm.

I also use Arcane Fury and Arcane Avenger since he's pretty tanky and doesn't need energy much since his exalted uses another form of power instead.

[Lutesque]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Skiller115 said:

Baruuk is actually really good and doesn't really need a buff because his exalted has the largest attack area and can clear rooms provided that you're using Reactive Storm! I just mod for damage and sheilds with Adaptation. I gave him just a tiny bit of range so his 1 has 207° of protection Which easily covers everything in front of him and a bit twords his sides.

And the stats I have for him are

Duration 155%

Efficiency 45%

Range 115%

Strength 267%

With Redirection, Primed Flow, and Reactive Storm.

I also use Arcane Fury and Arcane Avenger since he's pretty tanky and doesn't need energy much since his exalted uses another form of power instead.

I mean.... you just proved my point.... i have significantly more range and less duration on my Baruuk with the same strength and it feels just as Solid....

GHS's Build for Baruuk doesnt have as much range and he swears his build is ready for steel path....

See ? Either Baruuk is weird or hes possibly one of the best designed Warframes just for having so many viable builds...

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

6 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I mean.... you just proved my point.... i have significantly more range and less duration on my Baruuk with the same strength and it feels just as Solid....

GHS's Build for Baruuk doesnt have as much range and he swears his build is ready for steel path....

See ? Either Baruuk is weird or hes possibly one of the best designed Warframes just for having so many viable builds...

I think he's just one of the best frames ever made, there's no one way to build him in order for him to be meta unlike some other frames...