Stalker Mode as MR30 reward?

[Deshiel]

Flash thought, so I didn't think it throught, so I'm ready for being told No, in all forms and lenghts,  but I'm also hoping that somebody says yes.

Basicaly you gain acces to it after reaching MR30

[Aldain]

Ah yes, what better reward for MR grinding than being able to abuse new players.

Leave the invasion mechanics in Dark Souls where they belong.

[GnarlsDarkley]

3 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

so I didn't think it through

Why are ppl so obsessed with this mode? What is so fun to face invisible and invincble Operatos?

[Deshiel]

Just now, GnarlsDarkley said:

Why are ppl so obsessed with this mode? What is so fun to face invisible and invincble Operatos?

The desire for pvp outlet will never die + its like Left4Dead

[Jarriaga]

We are definitively hitting MR30 this year. Let's make count:

- Current MR needed for MR30 (Non-founder): 126,499

- Hard mode: 27,051

- 3 Prime frames and their weapons (2 per frame) left for this year: 36,000

- Broken frame with just 1 weapon assumed: 9,000

- The next frame after broken frame, assumed with 1 weapon (Because DE won't let the year pass with just 2 new frames): 9,000

- Command Intrinsics: 15,000

- Late 2020 main expansion. On average for the past 4 years, that means at least 40,000 mastery on the conservative side.

Total amount of mastery to be introduced this year: 136,051. Even if we take Command out of the picture, the remaining amount (121,051) is so close that even 2 new weapons outside the ones expected with new frames will fill that out. And founders won't need those 2 extra weapons since they already have Skana, Lato and Excalibur Prime. 

So I think the conversation about what will happen at MR30 is a valid one.

If Stalker Mode (Or just a badge/trophy) is what happens, it will be such an underwhelming and disappointing build-up towards MR30 over 7 years that it will most likely result in the biggest backlash DE have ever seen. That build-up and anticipation is what pushes towards farming all the mastery you can, the legendary MR30 mystery. The pinnacle. The summit. The ultimate goal as there is no such thing as MR31. 

Yes, you can argue that it's players setting themselves up for disappointment and that having such a build-up for years and years sets expectations and standards that are impossible for DE to meet, but just a badge or a trophy will only serve to kill any motivation to pursue a higher MR rank beyond QoL for mostly everyone else. Once the first person hits MR30 there will be no more mystery at that point. Players will know for sure from the get-go if the grind is worth it, so DE will have to prepare something that makes people say "Yeah, that is worth the grind" be it a weapon, a game mode, a special ability or an item, whatever it is, it will have to be something more than just a Stalker Mode.

Personally, the only things I can think of as being worthy of the effort are double the physical mod slots (And capacity), and/or the ability to build your Warframe from a modular system for the visual design while taking abilities from other frames based on the parts used to build it: The main WF BP for the passive, and the systems from a WF with the ability you want to add per slot. The ability to permanently fuse Augments to frame abilities without taking mod slots could work as well although it wouldn't generate the same level of hype and impact

That sounds broken as hell. But seriously, DE need something big for MR30 or it will effectively kill grind past MR16 beyond QoL. The deadline is this year.

[GnarlsDarkley]

11 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

The desire for pvp

But what's the point in imbalanced PvP? 

This will just have a wave of thousands of (useless) threads. You cannot make this match up fair.

 

Normal Stalker is already a decent threat towards new player. You cannot allow players to grief this even more.

And for Shadow Stalker it's totally the other way. Operators lorewise are designed to counter the Shadows Stalker's abilities so you cannot nerf them. It will always be Player controlled Shadow Stalker (PcSS) versus invisible and invincible Operator. It would just be a pain in the back because PcSS will hide and seek and annoy the other player or go for the objective to fail their mission.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

Player controlled stalker mode is just DE trolling. Stalker in any form is limited to his abilities, base stats and weapons. The only people they would realistically be able to kill would be new players. If you feel the need to go after new players to hunt them down, you belong on GTA and not warframe lol. 

I definitely like the stalker mode shown for one main reason. Better rewards for killing pcs vs ai stalker. Everyone like free stuff especially when every interaction would look like a pack of half sized kids pummeling stalker within seconds. Either way, it would need to be an opt-in situation before a pcs can come after you. Otherwise it would be game breaking and turn many away.

[Yamazuki]

32 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

The desire for pvp outlet will never die + its like Left4Dead

Then why don't you, you know... actually pvp. This suggestion and most forms of owpvp aren't actual competitive pvp and are mainly pvp for the sake of bullying inexperienced players, or those not consenting, and thus not interested in pvp for guaranteed wins.

[SneakyErvin]

I've never understood PvE heroes wanting PvP related rewards that can "abuse" others. It just gives a salty WoW aftertaste from all the PvE hero tears that flooded the game when WoW announced they were introducing the resilience stat on PvP gear, which made you alot more duarble versus players.

"Wha wha but ma raid lootz blezzurd!" -Random PvE hero warcry

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

59 minutes ago, Deshiel said:

The desire for pvp outlet

Then make it only possible to invade PvP matches, where the players are actually interested in PvP.

[DoomFruit]

I'm still quite ready to make and use a connection blocker script if they implement that. Enjoy your eternal loading screen, griefers.

[Aldain]

Just now, DoomFruit said:

I'm still quite ready to make and use a connection blocker script if they implement that. Enjoy your eternal loading screen, griefers.

If they do somehow implement that without an opt-out I'm gonna need that script (and an instruction manual) too.

Also reminds me of a common complaint from invaders in Dark Souls communities, when an invader complains about running into a 1v3 gank squad instead of a new player who barely knows how a sword works. Always good for a laugh.

[Lullypumpsie]

Most ppl already complaining in this topic about "NOOB STOMP" but, as stalker, u use his old gear  Dread  Despair  Hate  Most likely you need to be a very skilled player in order to hit an action player with a bow.

In addition, most often, players will not be alone and, with the information that Stalker is now a player, players will do their best to kill the stalker. This will be a challenge for both sides and a certain variety in the game. In the eyes of newcomers, Stalker, maybe, will finally be “Mr. X” - what he should be.

I agree with the author of this topic, it will be interesting to see.

 

[DoomFruit]

Just now, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

I'll just play with my throttled mobile data then, enjoy a ping surpassing 100k dear stalker 🙂

I don't mean throttled, I mean complete packet loss. There will be a ping of infinity because these potential griefers will simply not be able to connect.

[VoidArkhangel]

Could be interesting but stalker must be reworked or buffed first and, even then, Im sure most of the players will just complain like "stalker in every mission!" "my friend won't stop stalking me" "stalker op against mission objectives" ....

In the current state of the game would be a pain in the ... even for the stalker players like appearing in the extraction soft-locking the game, more than one stalker per mission, the mobs killing the stalker due to the host lag, and some other things.

Being honest, I want to play as the Stalker or Misery but as I said, in the current state of the game, I prefer to just have the helm unlocked for every warframe and the ability to change pieces of armor to finally have the pakal loincloth for exca or oberon's loincloth for nekros.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, Deshiel said:

Flash thought, so I didn't think it throught, so I'm ready for being told No, in all forms and lenghts,  but I'm also hoping that somebody says yes.

Basicaly you gain acces to it after reaching MR30

I think there's validity to the notion but making it appetizing for many/most would come with so many caveats that it's probably not worth it.

• Player's would need the right to opt-in.
• The drop list would need to be completely refreshed.
• The drop rates would need to be improved.
• The drop list would need to have stuff in it that folks will want and be guaranteed to get without additional spawn times and heartache. 
• Players would not be allowed to talk about their times playing as the Stalker as that could easily become bullying.
• Players playing Stalker would not get to pick who they hunt or even see names at all.
• Stalker's whole moveset would need to be refreshed to guard from the cheesy tactics used to down stalker now.

Put simply, it's alot.

Even then the most likely outcome would still be that players wouldn't opt-in... Leaving those would-be Stalkers sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

[Magus_Tahir]

Only Pablo is allowed to kill at 300 meters plus.

[Tesseract7777]

I think the little testing DE did with a Stalker mode really showed all the issues inherent in such a mode, and how hard or impossible they may be to reconcile. 

For starters, you would have to make defense objectives, for example, immune to the Stalker, or players could grief others that way. 

But even without that, Stalker could still prioritize the person who is say, defending a point, or trying to hack an important panel, instead of the person they came into the mission for who was "marked". 

And if we are talking about the regular Stalker, making it any more difficult would be torture to new players. He actually is a threat to newbies, and can be quite a bit of a scare. Many do not survive their first encounter with him to begin with. 

As for the Shadow Stalker, as others have pointed out, the player posing as him would actually be at quite a disadvantage. With our operators and amps now, most people trying to kill others with the Shadow Stalker would just be playing a game of whack a tenno and would never manage to get a warframe kill. 

[Deshiel]

Thank you all for the feedback.

[Galuf]

I would camp players who solo farm harrow. Supporting the game by incentivising cash shop + mining salt at once.

[Aldain]

Just now, Galuf said:

I would camp players who solo farm harrow.

Satan called, he said he had to make a new circle of hell just for that comment.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Aldain said:

Ah yes, what better reward for MR grinding than being able to abuse new players.

 

 

But this would be TASTY.

DENY IT, go ahead, deny it. 

lol

[Aldain]

Just now, Felsagger said:

But this would be TASTY.

Not for people with actual taste.

[Lullypumpsie]

Also, yes, Stalker invades only when a player has a STALKER MARK. If you are so afraid of the invasion of Stalker-player, then it would be wise to add some way to “take off” this MARK, like a remission of sins or something.

I see no reason to call this thought "OP" or "NOOBSTOMP"

[SenorClipClop]

1 hour ago, Jarriaga said:

-snip-

Let's be honest, though, is there literally anything DE could do, any feature or content they could give, that wouldn't make a ton of players insanely sad/angry/disappointed? This has been hyped for as long as the game has been alive.I don't think anything would even be generally satisfying to the playerbase. Youtubers would start popping off with buzzwords like "controversy", rip-off", "cop-out" and "betrayal of the fans" within hours. (I get that this would be largely motivated by using shock value and clickbait to push views, but still.)

Your suggestions are perfectly valid for your own perception of the game, but if the thing they put behind that MR 30 wall were exactly what you said above, I'd personally be really disappointed. I'm powerful enough and I don't need baked-in augments or double Mod slots making the game even easier for me. A customizable frame sounds neat, but I prefer frames with synergistic abilities and so cobbling abilities from other frames together sounds like a gimmick I'd play around with here and there but largely forget about.

And if we pare it down to the most baseline of scales: if the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow isn't crazy amazing, many people will feel like they've wasted their time*. However, if the pot of gold is crazy amazing, many people will feel punished* for not grinding through the exp of every single weapon in the game. And that scale is not linear across the playerbase. One particular reward would be satisfying for one player, but too little for another player and too much (ie "that punishes me") for yet another player.

_{*whether or not the reaction is justified is another discussion, this is just how people are going to react}

 

Personally, I would be happiest with a simple, standard "ending". Maybe a quick cutscene, some eye-opening but still inconclusive bit of lore dating back to the game's foundational lore, and then credits roll. Afterward pop us back into the Orbiter with a unique badge of honor (sigil, emblem or unique glyph border, maybe), perhaps a couple extra dialogue options for NPCs moving forward. That's it. Nothing giving me more power so that I'd feel getting to 30 was some mandatory grind. Something that affects just me, that says, "Hey, thanks for playing the f*ck out this game, here are the people who made Warframe happen." It wouldn't give me any kind of shinies or goodies. To me, that'd be the most genuine way for the devs to deliver MR30.