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Sentinel - infinite revive with a timer


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Posted (edited)

If you are a kavat player, you know this about sentinel: they will be killed 1000 times faster and is difficult to revive them (you need to die).

I have this idea:

-) Sentinel will have an infinite number of life, and when explode start 1 minute countdown since is revived. 

-) Regen and primed regen mod will work on the time is needed for your sentinel to be revived. So, a maxed regen mod could set this time to 30 seconds, while a maxed primed regen mod could set the time to 10 seconds

-) The revive should work also in arbitration (and for me also kavat/kubrow/moa revive should be allowd in arbitration, since theyr IA is dumb and they dance in evey toxic/corrosive/fire/electric/deadly area of the map)

Edited by MollAgdeduba
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Basically, Djinn's Reawaken, but universal.

Yeah, could work, though I'd still prefer they take the band-aid off and just do Companion durability properly.

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Y'know, I was thinking of swapping the functions of (Primed) Regen and Reawaken around. So, yeah, I'm for something like this.

Be nice to have that and proper companion durability, though. (Even if it is done well, it's reassuring to have a backup, just in case)

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sorry, i vote no on this.

reason being....why have them then? why not just ask for extra mod slots and such on the warframes themselves? we all know companions dont do much aside from being mod/buff platforms with small gimmicks added to them. if you are asking for them to be "permanent" why not just add what they do directly to the warframes?

thats not to say i dont agree with the sentiment. companions are in serious dire need of a surviveability rework, but i personally think that should come in the form of actual surviveability....not just infinite respawns. we should have some kind of a reason to keep them alive. im all for the system we have now, sentinels get regen, and cats and dogs we can revive. if they are destroyed/die then there should def be the penalty of loosing what they provide for the rest of the mission. they should however either be more durable in the first place...or scale somehow with the level of enemies.

infinite companion respawns lessens the already minimal tactical thought one needs when playing a mission. we dont need one less thing to worry about...what we need is for that one thing to be properly balanced so that its not completely borked in the first place.

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Posted (edited)

I'm frankly sick and tired of rezzing my seven forma cat three times per average starchart mission. And that's with the mod that heals them when i do melee attacks.

1 - Companions are dumb.

2 - They get stuck in corners and get killed out of nowhere all the time.

3 - They trigger traps and just stand there to die.

4 - It's always really disorienting finding them because they are stuck in a corner , often invisible since they share my ash's invisibility, and there's tons of markers on screen and other clutter making it hard to notice where the dead invisible cat is located surrounded by fire and enemies is.

5 - In bosses, it's even worse, as you constantly have to stop damaging the boss if you don't want them to die due to a stupid boss AOE attack every five seconds.

6 - It also annoys everyone to have to rez annoying other player's doggos and cattos every five seconds. Can even make you fail objectives are you're stuck rezzing dying pets two rooms away over and over instead of protecting a terminal.

Just do the same thing as you do with Khora's pet with all pets, making them auto-revive after a let's say 30 seconds of getting down, and perhaps give them 3x the health to begin with, especially with the Steel Path coming. Nothing sucks more than when you're speerunning to an objective and poof, stupid cat is bleeding out three rooms away in a corner, forcing you to backtrack and search for it before it expires so you keep being able to use your vacuum / enemy radar / charm buff.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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Since Sentinels are the only companions that can die with limited chances to keep them alive they should have a chance to revive them or at least a way to regenerate them over time by picking up energy or health. The timer would make it a bit easy, but having a consequence and a requirement to bring them back would be fair. 

I'll always keep a Kubrow around over a Sentinel since they can be revived and you can put mods like Pack Leader so you can heal them with melee. 

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8 minutes ago, cha0sWyrM said:

if they are destroyed/die then there should def be the penalty of loosing what they provide for the rest of the mission.

Besides the fact that it punishes for AI or homing attacks (hi Eidolons) the player doesn't have a ton of recourse against, and the fact that pet durability would have to be quite stupendously high to make those less of an issue to the point that the player may likely go down before the companion will (in which case, yeah, why not just make it part of the Warframe?), there's the fact that the gameplay loop is, "my pet died, I better stand in front of this machine gun and die so I can revive it again". That's a bit odd, don't you agree?

Or should we punish players for things outside of their control even harder and remove companion revival with player revival?

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Just now, Tyreaus said:

Besides the fact that it punishes for AI or homing attacks (hi Eidolons) the player doesn't have a ton of recourse against, and the fact that pet durability would have to be quite stupendously high to make those less of an issue to the point that the player may likely go down before the companion will (in which case, yeah, why not just make it part of the Warframe?), there's the fact that the gameplay loop is, "my pet died, I better stand in front of this machine gun and die so I can revive it again". That's a bit odd, don't you agree?

Or should we punish players for things outside of their control even harder and remove companion revival with player revival?

Operator mode and cloak is a great way to revive. 

I'd appreciate the ability to command pets to stick close or be more aggressive depending on the situation at hand. Basically Khora's power in a way. 

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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

Operator mode and cloak is a great way to revive. 

If the damned cat would get out of the sapping field that keeps downing it, I'd agree. But...

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21 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Besides the fact that it punishes for AI or homing attacks (hi Eidolons) the player doesn't have a ton of recourse against, and the fact that pet durability would have to be quite stupendously high to make those less of an issue to the point that the player may likely go down before the companion will (in which case, yeah, why not just make it part of the Warframe?), there's the fact that the gameplay loop is, "my pet died, I better stand in front of this machine gun and die so I can revive it again". That's a bit odd, don't you agree?

Or should we punish players for things outside of their control even harder and remove companion revival with player revival?

i dont get what youre saying at all...so, no i do not agree.

i 100% of the time never die reviving my pets. if a player cant figure out how to revive a fallen pet without getting killed themselves...maybe having a pet is too much a responsibility for that player?

as i said...im all for boosting survivability in companions...but infinite respawns is just way too much cheese. there is no point in having them then...just give us the mod slots and be done with it.

 

if you want to make a case for better ai or pathfinding or whatever...sure ok im on board, but simply cheesing the whole thing by giving them infinite respawns is not only poor game mechanics...its poor game lore. all of a sudden the pets are indestructible immortal gods...but the warframes who own them can still get one shot from time to time? how does that make sense? why cant i just let my helminth charger loose to go do an exterminate mission for me while i make s'mores on the orbiter? i mean...he cant die right? what am i putting myself in danger for?

 

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Wouldn't that make Primed Regen useless at high levels, like the new Pluto map, where you can get swarmed and where the sentinel will be immediately obliterated if you're downed? Nowadays if a sentinel gets shot down it instantly revives and continues it's revival process during that post revival invincibility period. If it dies and only revives a minute later, then that's it, you have to manually resurrect. So why would you waste the slot and cost for Primed Regen then?

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I wouldn’t mind this but I think a 1 minute timer is low for infinite revives this. Or maybe just have us revive (newly named repair) sentinels when they go down. Have some kind of system where we would have to sacrifice a resource (one of the resources we have infinite of) to use to repair sentinels & it increase in cost with every revive. 

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I think Djinn is just fine for those who don't want to lose their pets, or med to extend timer.

I'd rather have a consumable gear that can rez companions once or twice a mission. 

Other than that Djinn Prime. Pick the companion that does what you want, not try to have it all on everything. Does Djinn get charm now? Are the companions all identical? Keep variety in the game. 

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5 hours ago, KnossosTNC said:

Basically, Djinn's Reawaken, but universal.

Yeah, could work, though I'd still prefer they take the band-aid off and just do Companion durability properly.

Append an 'an useful' to that because the Djinn timer is terribad, unless you're strait up grinding and endless for hours. Cause odds are in any normal mission you're going to be done before it's even half over. 

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Personally, when it comes to Sentinels I would rather have a gear item that would recall your Sentinel if it ever depletes all of its revives. Simple, effective, and would make sentinel companions feel like an extension of how the Corpus spawn ospreys in ad infinitum.

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For me companions shouldnt die. At all. More slots for functionality and less mandatory sustain slots that serves nothing at high level content.

That or they should scale with enemies stats instead of ours, like specters do.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, cha0sWyrM said:

i dont get what youre saying at all...so, no i do not agree.

If a companion dies completely - no revive timer or anything of that sort - the player can go down, spend a revive, and will revive both themselves and their companion. If a companion is particularly important to a player and the companion dies outright, that's not an uncommon course of action.

This is even more common with sentinels, which don't have a revive option, don't have the breadth of healing options as beast companions, and appear to be the main focus of the OP.

8 hours ago, cha0sWyrM said:

its poor game lore. all of a sudden the pets are indestructible immortal gods...but the warframes who own them can still get one shot from time to time? how does that make sense? why cant i just let my helminth charger loose to go do an exterminate mission for me while i make s'mores on the orbiter? i mean...he cant die right? what am i putting myself in danger for?

The proposition is for timed respawns, which A - doesn't imply they can't get one-shot, B - doesn't imply they're indestructible, and C - doesn't introduce any new lore issues. If a companion of any kind dies in a mission, they reappear just fine back in the orbiter when that mission is over. And they reappear if the player expends a revive. Also, Djinn exists. So if the idea that they can come back from the dead is a lore issue...we've already got that in spades.

To be clear, I would much rather companions across the board just have revive options - displace sentinels from the player by a certain amount to simulate them being "knocked down" (because kinetics and momentum) and allow players to revive them like other companions - and standardize other things like link mods with buffs to the regular EHP mods to improve their survivability. Add in an invulnerability time across the board so they don't go down immediately after revival, and possibly fix up other issues with beast companions going down five thousand miles away, and you'd probably have everyone decently happy. It would certainly make me happy with things like Exploiter Orb cutscenes nuking sentinels, since at least then the companion isn't just dead through literally no fault of my own and I have a chance to revive it. However, given the issues with sentinels have been around for a very long time, that doesn't seem to be something on the table. And when the common solution to a dead-but-desired sentinel is "spend a revive to get it back", you might as well repurpose that into something intentional.

I do, however, think 10 seconds is far too little. 30 at bare minimum. I'd argue 90 to 120 for regular, somewhere between 45 to 60 for primed.

Edited by Tyreaus
Trimming my unimportant drivel
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Make them scale by the enemy levels for their resistance after we find the item in game to give them that survive power. We have to find it for each faction to have it be in effect for the missions we do.

If they get blown up, have the ability to call in a replacer via HALO deployment that drops somewhere in the mission. You find it, open it and viola...companion is back. 

They should bring back the teleport to you when the revival companions go down...sucks when you are darting across a map to see your companion go down where you were since it somehow got stuck. 

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17 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

1 - Companions....

Spoiler

 

are dumb.

2 - They get stuck in corners and get killed out of nowhere all the time.

3 - They trigger traps and just stand there to die.

4 - It's always really disorienting finding them because they are stuck in a corner , often invisible since they share my ash's invisibility, and there's tons of markers on screen and other clutter making it hard to notice where the dead invisible cat is located surrounded by fire and enemies is.

5 - In bosses, it's even worse, as you constantly have to stop damaging the boss if you don't want them to die due to a stupid boss AOE attack every five seconds.

6 - It also annoys everyone to have to rez annoying other player's doggos and cattos every five seconds. Can even make you fail objectives are you're stuck rezzing dying pets two rooms away over and over instead of protecting a terminal.

 

 

7 - Companions don't get a brief period of invincibility on getting up like Warframes do. If you rez them and there are enemies around, those enemies go straight back to damaging the companion immediately, zero grace period.

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