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The Steel Path: Feedback Megathread!


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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

The way you delivered the statement yells to the company that the way things are now, and the way they were delivered now was perfect, and more of the exact same should come out, not something better.

That's not what I said. That's your interpretation. Which is fine, people can interpret it any way that they want. I'll say it again, and if whoever reads this don't understand what I'm saying then to use your own words precisely: "Their opinion doesn't matter."

Spending money on this is not necessarily an indication that it's fine the way that it is, but is an investment into continuing to do work on this area of the game because there is a demand for challenging content. That's it. Not hard to understand, is it?

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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BUG !?

Just now talked to Teshin, and the talked escalated to this:

  - "do you want to unlock steel path?" 

and possible answers are

  - "YES"

  - "I AM READY"

 

so once you talk to teshin, there is no going back from the steel path 😆

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Posted (edited)

I have one major suggestion : Can we get a global + / - icon on the steel path difficulty selection, which dictates the amount of hp / armor / shields enemies have ?

That way , everyone gets matchmade together in the same user pool for the new gamemode, yet people can decide if they want their lvl 100 enemies to be about the same as regular lvl 100 enemies, or souped up bullet sponges, depending on their tastes, gear quality and such. I think it would please pretty much everyone, people that find it too hard would drop the slider as low as they can, people that want more challenge can raise it up, tryhards can rank it all the way to like 500%... Everyone's happy. Maybe do some small % reward scaling to accomodate the added difficulty.Would open up more variety of builds to the new gamemode and would be more solo-friendly too.

Main issue I have with the gamemode right now is that it can feel uneven, like tons of missions are barely harder than their starchart counterpart, yet when you get into missions like survival or any gamemode actually requiring you to kill many enemies very fast, it gets annoyingingly slow and tedious. The whole point of the steel path was imho to reach the lvl 100 milestone immediately so we could finally do endless misisons that felt exciting, but that purpose is kinda defeated due to the fact that enemies were made so much tankyer that they scale way too fast and high to be able to do long runs unless you use totally cheezy frames and tactics.

I really want Steel Path to become my "new starchart" and not some one time clear type of deal I do just for the rewards and never touch afterwards... Giving us the ability to choose the actual % increase in enemy tankyness would go a long way to make sure I can feel comfortable playing and doing the content over and over , plus would allow me to bump difficulty as time progresses if I start getting better rivens and even more meta builds... Overall many games do this (think of Diablo's multiple torment difficulty levels), and it would imho be better than a flat +150% to enemy tankyness.

Make both armor sets available to both genders :

It's 2020, people are sensitive about their identity and gender identifications. Having armors sets for males and females is kinda restrictive, plus it would be way cooler to be able to mix and match both sets together... Besides imho the Female Armor looks way better and it sucks my male operator will never get to wear it...

Maybe tweak the hp / armor / shield values individuall for all factions :

Still relatively early in the starchart, but right now Infested feel as weak as they did in the regular starchart, corpus are slightly more tanky, while grineer feel like Wolf of Saturn six bullet sponges.Perhaps consider dropping the armor on grineer and raising the shields on corpus, and maybe overall giving much more HP and survivability on infested so all three factions are about the same in terms of challenge.

Scale up Extractors :

They still have 6000 Hp and 2000 Shields... Which was already too low for Lvl 100 Kuva floods and is indecent in steel path. Terminals, Rescue Targets and other things have much higher HP pools, and it especially sucks if you try to solo these missions, as they get twoshot by pretty much every enemy if you're not using limbo to rift it out of existence.

Give us a sun decoration for clearing the whole starchart :

Kinda sucks making a starchart diaporama in our ship without having the center of it available...

Edit : Ended up asking DE Saske about it XD.

Saske-Fun.jpg

 

Edited by Tenno_Cobra
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I think this will bring me back to go through the starchart again, I'm only disappointed it's not a difficulty increase to the whole game, for people who have been playing over a few hundred hours and is just a separate challenge mode instead.

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35 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Spending money on this is not necessarily an indication that it's fine the way that it is, but is an investment into continuing to do work on this area of the game because there is a demand for challenging content.

People really loved Second Dream, then DE came out with three more cinematic quests that were subpar that didn't improve on the formula at all. 

People really loved Plains of Eidolon, then DE came out with another Open World that didn't improve on the formula at all. 

People really loved ESO, then DE came out with another elite mode that didn't improve on the formula at all and then made it easier for casuals. 

Going ahead in time, assuming everyone decides to spend money to show they loved the direction Steel Path goes, they release Ultra Hard Mode which just bumps up enemies another 100 levels, and triples armor scaling instead of working on their scaling calculations and it turns out subpar because people backed it, and they decide not to improve on the formula at all. 

You can spend your money on whatever you want, but assuming that pumping money into this idea leads to productive development on it before it's improved enough to deserve that investment is about as accurate as thinking pre-ordering a game means it'll definitely be great on launch. 

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10 hours ago, Magus_Tahir said:

This suggestion just like Umbra forma would push optional side content into mandatory.

Rebecca and the team made it very clear that this content is optional and for the people who wanted a little more of a challenge to test their high end builds against. Not the nebulous endgame so many people desire. 

Personal perspective I lay this controversy at the feet of the very content creators who begged and pleaded for this mode. And then when they realized that this was not going to be a way for them to get what they wanted out of the game their critique went to an eleven. 

But we shall see. I am diving into this on my day off. Time to see how my unkillable arse holds up against perpetual sponge.

 

Well, at least being totally objective, they should ramp up the rewards in every mission, instead of 2k credit cache, a 20k credit cache, instead of a single reliq, a bundle of only lith/meso/neo/axi relics, stuff like that, it is not that hard to make us actually happy with this kind of mode, I really enjoy how i have to step up my gameplay because I'm a madman Mirage main, but it aint worth at all with this crappy rewards. Seems like arbitrations is still the way to go until they figure out how badly they designed the reward system, or how they did not actually cared about it

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10 minutes ago, Tenno_Cobra said:

Make both armor sets available to both genders :

It's 2020, people are sensitive about their identity and gender identifications. Having armors sets for males and females is kinda restrictive, plus it would be way cooler to be able to mix and match both sets together... Besides imho the Female Armor looks way better and it sucks my male operator will never get to wear it...

I agree with this so much. Operators are kind of designed to be a bit gender neutral anyway, and we can already put any voice on our operators, so why this distinction?

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3 hours ago, RevanZim said:

The mod booster makes no sense at all

Mod booster makes perfect sense as it's doubling your endo drops, in addition to increasing your shot at rare drops. The steel path is basically: double resources and double endo. My main issue with the steel path boosters is that they do not stack with boosters you have bought from the market or received from your daily login reward.

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

This would personally give me an incentive to do the all the planets while imo not over saturating how many umbra forma players can attain.

You're asking for 9-18 umbra forma for clearing steel path and don't think that's over saturating? That's about 3-6 years worth of umbra forma if you assume 1 per 3-4 months, but given to players in the space of a month assuming somewhat casual play and focused on completing all nodes. That's excessive. Certainly it would be good to have a place to earn it, but it needs to be limited due to how impactful it is. Steel Path may not be a suitable place for it, especially since DE is insisting they want the mode entirely optional and don't want people to feel forced into it.

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First Try Jordas golem fight mission not complete so either it is because im not at eris so i should not be possible play it then thats a fail or it schould complete uppon completing the misssion

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12 hours ago, PookieNumnums said:

They said its not intended as endgame. That means whatever idea of endgame they have, is not simply hardmode. 


They can say whatever the hell they want, when words don't mesh up with actions.

To unlock the mode you need more investment than most other missions, to execute the mode (especially in solo), you have to pick a very effective end game loadout. With all my respects to DE, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and behaves like a duck, calling it a cat won't do much.

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43 minutes ago, yilmazdurmaz said:

BUG !?

Just now talked to Teshin, and the talked escalated to this:

  - "do you want to unlock steel path?" 

and possible answers are

  - "YES"

  - "I AM READY"

 

so once you talk to teshin, there is no going back from the steel path 😆

Just like any Telltale game, your choices don't matter

Remember the affiliation you got with certain quest choices, giving you the option of light, dark, or both? That's exhibit A

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il y a 5 minutes, phoenix1992 a dit :

if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and behaves like a duck, calling it a cat won't do much.

Goose: Am I a "Quack" to you?

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Posted (edited)

I am double posting, since this point has absolutely nothing to do with the previous quote, and I would not like Pookie to feel like he is addressed in such manner.

"It is not mandatory, hence it won't have good rewards" - absolutely nothing is mandatory, including playing Warframe itself. But parts of the Warframe community feels like they are personally attacked when there is content they don't want to participate in. The issue arises when DE forsake core gameplay loops in order to pander to people that have close to no interest in actually participating in the game or god forbid invest into long term relationship with it.

Please tell me one good game, that forsakes the "do the challenge to receive reward" function, to the point in which the Developer actually goes on public and says "we don't want to make you to feel forced to do the content, hence we gimped the rewards".

Is it Dark Souls? WoW? God Forbid Fortnite? Dota/LoL? Half Life? Undertale?

Only walking simulators do that, and with all due my respects to the genre - Warframe ain't that. (and even then stuff like The Stanley Parable doesn't play on it's own)

Edited by phoenix1992
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Posted (edited)

I'm one of those 10 people that actually enjoyed the sense of progression in clearing the starchart, so I like the opportunity to do it again. That said.

There's no challenge in steel path. It's still the same old metas with roughly the same level of effectiveness. Which completely invalidates whatever you tried to achieve with difficulty.

Defense missions with increased spawns need to #*!% right off. They are, by far, the most tedious part of the system, and, traditionally, least fun.

Exterminations come second in being unfun. There's nothing difficult about them - they just take longer than before because mobs evaporate slightly slower. Not sure if it's possible to fix though.

Oh, right, nearly forgot. Archwing Steel path. Archwing Steel path needs to #*!% off too, in general.

Aaaaand... That's it, honestly. There's nothing more to say. SP is completely unremarkable otherwise. It's gonna be one-and-done thing for me, and small sanctuary for those who, for some reason, enjoy beating 100+ enemies just for the sake of it. It's not going to be populated by majority of playerbase though.

 

I think there's an important lesson in this release though. Lesson is, all the idiots that demand the "challenge" in the form of numeric increases should, from this point on, be ignored in perpetuity. Warframe is, at its core, unable to be a challenging game. We've seen it through its history over and over again. It's, at its heart, a Diabloid. Pure numbers game. A gear check with some flashy animations on it. What Warframe can be is "unfun" when those numbers creep too far on one or the other side.

When Warframe stays fun while breaking away from its numeric trap, is with unique mechanics. Worldbosses. New Jackal. Hell, even Railjack, for all the S#&$ it got, was legitimately fun - it was (and still is) just over too quickly. We've been on a fantastic streak with boss designs actually (minus Profit taker). I suggest DE stops listening to the clueless tryhards that will be the first to whine how SP is unfun anyway, and keeps building up new scenarios ON TOP of the core gameplay.

Edited by Serafim_94
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Hey ho,

 

Cheers for the content update, heres some feedback in list form.

 

1. Revisiting previous tilesets fully has shown me some new rooms from the new corpus tileset which is cool.

2. Steel essense is far far too rare, I would like to suggest making eximus spawn much more in the steel path not only helping the drop rate but also helping with codex completion.

3. I agree Umbra forma would be a good addition to teshins arsenal, if steel essense drop-rates where improved directly or iva mroe eximus instead of normal enemies maybe 50 would be a nice number for it?

4. Relic packs with current drop rate are a total rip-off, for real anyone who buys them needs to be taught the value of their own time.

5. Dax syndana should be able to be bought through teshins store, it makes sense 🙂

6. Perhaps the Teshin bust could make a comeback via the steel shop? I already have one for my orbiter and dojo but it would be nice for people that missed the streams and it also fits with the theme of the shop.

7. The dex nikana skins could be a good fit for teshins store.

8. Think archwing enemies could do with maybe another 20+ levels to make em juuuuuust right 🙂

 

Kind regards,

 

Commanduf

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10 минут назад, phoenix1992 сказал:

I am double posting, since this point has absolutely nothing to do with the previous quote, and I would not like Pookie to feel like he is addressed in such manner.

"It is not mandatory, hence it won't have good rewards" - absolutely nothing is mandatory, including playing Warframe itself. But parts of the Warframe community feels like they are personally attacked when there is content they don't want to participate in. The issue arises when DE forsake core gameplay loops in order to pander to people that have close to no interest in actually participating in the game or god forbid invest into long term relationship with it.

Please tell me one good game, that forsakes the "do the challenge to receive reward" function, to the point in which the Developer actually goes on public and says "we don't want to make you to feel forced to do the content, hence we gimped the rewards".

Is it Dark Souls? WoW? God Forbid Fortnite? Dota/LoL? Half Life? Undertale?

Only walking simulators do that, and with all due my respects to the genre - Warframe ain't that. (and even then stuff like The Stanley Parable doesn't play on it's own)

Guild wars 2. The endgame rewards entirely revolved around cosmetic skins, and purely QoL features. There was no power increase past certain reasonably achievable level - early tiers of fractals. And it worked beautifully, EXACTLY because it didn't create an ongoing power creep race, that we've seen with Tridolons and Arbitrations.

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Just now, Serafim_94 said:

Guild wars 2. The endgame rewards entirely revolved around cosmetic skins, and purely QoL features. There was no power increase past certain reasonably achievable level - early tiers of fractals. And it worked beautifully, EXACTLY because it didn't create an ongoing power creep race, that we've seen with Tridolons and Arbitrations.


Guild Wars 2 was and still is an MMORPG, the systems behind the scene can not be compared to Warframe, or Hard Mode. Elder Scrolls Online also falls into the boat.

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7 minutes ago, Celedring said:

Do the 100% resource work? I don't need resources but when I picked up a single kubrow egg I started to wonder. 

Its Resource Drop Chance booster ie Tellurium and the like, not the Resource Booster giving extra amounts.

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Posted (edited)
7 минут назад, phoenix1992 сказал:


Guild Wars 2 was and still is an MMORPG, the systems behind the scene can not be compared to Warframe, or Hard Mode. Elder Scrolls Online also falls into the boat.

While I'll never call Warframe an RPG, it has the same drive that MMORPGs do - loot hunt for power increase. On that point, they can be compared pretty well. What you describe as "reward for effort" usually translates into "vertical power scaling", when each new major content addition completely invalidates previous gear and stuff by increasing in power. Hell, Destiny does it. Warframe occasionally falls into that pit too, and each time it becomes more and more trivial to play because of said "rewards for effort". Adaptation was the prime example of this S#&$ happening.

I gave example of a game that deliberately avoided such model, and did it to reasonable level of success. There's no reason Warfame - which bears a lot of marks of horizontal progression design - is unable to do it too. Introducing more and more powerful rewards is a mistake that WF did already over and over again, and it never ended well. Not for "difficulty", such as it is.

Edited by Serafim_94
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1 hour ago, yilmazdurmaz said:

BUG !?

Just now talked to Teshin, and the talked escalated to this:

  - "do you want to unlock steel path?" 

and possible answers are

  - "YES"

  - "I AM READY"

 

so once you talk to teshin, there is no going back from the steel path 😆

Exist a way to avoid this...alt+f4.

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8 минут назад, phoenix1992 сказал:


Guild Wars 2 was and still is an MMORPG, the systems behind the scene can not be compared to Warframe, or Hard Mode. Elder Scrolls Online also falls into the boat.

What the hell is with you? You brought example of WoW, another MMORPG with crazy powercreep with each update.

But when someone brought Guild Wars 2 you just spew "but that is MMORPG".

I don't even mention your single player story driven games, where beating the game IS the reward. Max Payne 2: hardest difficulty was unlocked by playing hard. And beating hardest barely expanded last cutscene with vague story ending.

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42 minutes ago, Kokomala said:

You're asking for 9-18 umbra forma for clearing steel path and don't think that's over saturating? That's about 3-6 years worth of umbra forma if you assume 1 per 3-4 months, but given to players in the space of a month assuming somewhat casual play and focused on completing all nodes. That's excessive. Certainly it would be good to have a place to earn it, but it needs to be limited due to how impactful it is. Steel Path may not be a suitable place for it, especially since DE is insisting they want the mode entirely optional and don't want people to feel forced into it.

It might 'sound' a lot but we currently have over 40 frames (variants excluded) and 500+ weapons.... even if you just limit the weapons to melee (currently no mods for others), we're still looking at over 150 melee.  I personally don't see 18 (+ any nightwave ones) as being excessive for 190 items... that's like 1 in 10 (at 9 it's 1 in 20) if you only stick one umbra forma on an item.

You say it needs to be limited, well it is far more limited than sticking it in the rewards pool (people will soon fine a 'meta' to farm it) or in the teshin store (players will eventually work out a 'meta' for the faster steel essence gain)... this approach means you can only get it once per planet.

Players still wouldn't be forced into it, umbra is already seen as optional and if it was made 'farmable' in any way the 'hardcore' umbra seekers would farm maps to death for the umbra forma (just look at railjack) and this would cause far more imbalance than a single time reward per planet. 

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I've beaten a couple planets so far so here's my feedback so far:

Enemies

  • Enemy levels and tankiness generally feels good
  • The shield buff should be removed from the Treasurer since he already has high shields that cannot be bypassed with Toxin and provides extremely high damage reduction. 
  • The higher spawn rates feel good except in missions like interception where it makes defending points difficult.

Rewards

  • Teshin's store needs more rewards added to it overtime to give reason to keep playing. Things like exclusive mods, forma blueprints, more cosmetics/decor. Personally I'd buy pre-built apothics.
  • Steel Essence seems to have a pretty low drop rate, so the price of things like relic packs means it is far more practical to just passively farm syndicate standing. This is especially true considering most people playing SP are likely above MR 20 and can get a relic pack worth of standing a day with just a sigil.
  • Rotation rewards need adjusted. There is currently no reason to stay for more than one rotation for players who want the rotation rewards. 
  • Steel Essence drops should be increased. It shouldn't be possible to fight a Syndicate eximus squad and not get at least 1 essence. 

The Xoris

  • Nerfing the Xoris makes me feel like I have less player choice rather than more due to other stat sticks requiring Naramon + Rivens + Combo Mods.
  • Since the Xoris is tied to a low-MR quest, Khora is accessible after the completion of The New Strange, and Xoris doesn't require a riven due to its dispo being 0.5, the Xoris was a very accessible stat stick for newer players who don't have access to focus/Naramon, but do have access to some gladiator mods and a low MR glaive. 
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19 hours ago, supernils said:

I wanted it like 2 days ago 😞 Then I remembered it was Scarlet Spear only. So, no one but me at least.

For what reason? Quite literally the O N L Y use the Stance Forma has, is on Dual Daggers. because they are the ONLY weapontype to have more than 2 different stance polarities even UTILIZED. EVERY OTHER WEAPONTYPE, is literally all one polarity, thus its pointless, or the weapon has two stance polarities, in which you literally just decide when feels better for you, or feel/calculate does more damage, whichever you're after, and use a single normal forma to switch it to that polarity, if its NOT that polarity already. Its the same amount of forma used. but one is "fancy" for zero rhyme or reason.

 

Even still for Dual daggers, you're going to find the stance that works best for you, then just use that one on all of your dual daggers anyway.

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