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The Steel Path: Feedback Megathread!


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19 hours ago, supernils said:

I wanted it like 2 days ago ūüėě Then I remembered it was Scarlet Spear only. So, no one but me at least.

For what reason? Quite literally the O N L Y use the Stance Forma has, is on Dual Daggers. because they are the ONLY weapontype to have more than 2 different stance polarities even UTILIZED. EVERY OTHER WEAPONTYPE, is literally all one polarity, thus its pointless, or the weapon has two stance polarities, in which you literally just decide when feels better for you, or feel/calculate does more damage, whichever you're after, and use a single normal forma to switch it to that polarity, if its NOT that polarity already. Its the same amount of forma used. but one is "fancy" for zero rhyme or reason.

 

Even still for Dual daggers, you're going to find the stance that works best for you, then just use that one on all of your dual daggers anyway.

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The gameplay doesn't offer anything new while reducing the number of viable warframes, skills and weapons to use.
The rewards don't intrest me in the slightest (Stance forma, really?). Even the cosmetics are lackluster!

I agree with some people in the thread. Umbra forma should be one of the rewards that can be traded in.

The only good feature of the Steel Path is making even more obvious where the the balance issues in this game are and that bandaids like rivens don't help in the long run.

Edited by Sahansral
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5 minutes ago, Serafim_94 said:

While I'll never call Warframe an RPG, it has the same drive that MMORPGs do - loot hunt for power increase. On that point, they can be compared pretty well. What you describe as "reward for effort" usually translates into "vertical power scaling", when each new major content addition completely invalidates previous gear and stuff by increasing in power. Hell, Destiny does it. Warframe occasionally falls into that pit too, and each time it becomes more and more trivial to play because of said "rewards for effort". Adaptation was the prime example of this S#&$ happening.

 


I am not sure if this is the proper place to discuss this, but sure let's give it a swing.

There are mainly two types of MMORPG - the old style and new style (pre and post 2010). Both of them have couple of things in common :

1. There are both single player and multiplayer driven content points - be it questing, exploring, dungeons, raids, pvp and so on - you can arguably say that Warframe has the same flow.
2. There is the power progression - be it via gear, leveling or special mechanics for the tier (think of umbra mods in Warframe) - Warframe has such a system, but it is utterly broken.
3. There is the game progression trough the years - via patches, expansions, seasons - Warframe has game progression and currently has Nightwave, but nothing akin to the progression between Guild Wars 2, Guild Wars Hearth of Thorns and Guild Wars Path of fire, WoW examples are even more extreme.

4. There is the character/class connection - Something Warframe can mimic only in the frames itself.

With the newer MMROPG's there is also a push towards the "account progression".
1. Visuals, Collectibles, Mounts and Achievements are more commonly tied to the account, not towards the character itself - Warframe has nothing to do with that, due to the base premise of the Main Charecter
2. There is more of a twist towards Sandbox and re exploring old content - While it may seem that Warframe also does that, the only examples are the Collectibles for Frame Fighter and Music box. 

However, here is the major diffrence.

While you can play for fun (or usually marked as casually by MMORPG communities), harder content comes with harder power gains and exclusive rewards. Be it PvE solo, PvE co op, PvP ranked/uranked. In Warframe such concepts are currently missing, almost every piece of content is set to "casual mode". Am I saying all games should have a split between casual and non casual - No. But MMORPG's have them.

 

7 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

What the hell is with you? You brought example of WoW, another MMORPG with crazy powercreep with each update.

 


I was talking about the reward structure of the game and not the overall game mode. The "powercreep" of WoW comes with seasons of patches and new content, sure by the end of the expansion you will "powercreep" enough to make a mockery of the first raid tier, or utterly dominate LFR/Normal mode, but such content is considered outdated for the current status of your character. The game is tuned for mythic/high mythic + if you refuse to participate in it, this is your choice and you do not gain the increased power gains or other rewards of that content. 
 

12 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

But when someone brought Guild Wars 2 you just spew "but that is MMORPG".

 

Yes, because again - game as base is not the same as the reward  

 

13 minutes ago, Miyabi-sama said:

I don't even mention your single player story driven games, where beating the game IS the reward. Max Payne 2: hardest difficulty was unlocked by playing hard. And beating hardest barely expanded last cutscene with vague story ending.


While I do fancy the old style of games for which the reward was "you get a bigger challenge" that is again tying to the type the game is. Warframe is more of a collectible open game, while Max Pain was direct story driven shooter (of course some people never paid attention to the story). It is like saying that Sims and DMC should have the same reward structures.


Bottom line : I was talking about the overall lack of rewards, you turned it into "but you spew about MMORPG",. while I just gave renown games as examples, regardless of their type. Undertale's reward is "you get alternative endings" but it lands perfectly into a story driven Indie RPG.

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12 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

It might 'sound' a lot but we currently have over 40 frames (variants excluded) and 500+ weapons.... even if you just limit the weapons to melee (currently no mods for others), we're still looking at over 150 melee.  I personally don't see 18 (+ any nightwave ones) as being excessive for 190 items... that's like 1 in 10 (at 9 it's 1 in 20) if you only stick one umbra forma on an item.

You say it needs to be limited, well it is far more limited than sticking it in the rewards pool (people will soon fine a 'meta' to farm it) or in the teshin store (players will eventually work out a 'meta' for the faster steel essence gain)... this approach means you can only get it once per planet.

Players still wouldn't be forced into it, umbra is already seen as optional and if it was made 'farmable' in any way the 'hardcore' umbra seekers would farm maps to death for the umbra forma (just look at railjack) and this would cause far more imbalance than a single time reward per planet. 

By this logic, you make Steel Path a necessary grind. That's not the intention. 

If anything, all of you Umbra hungry players should be asking for Umbra forma in ESO or Arbitration. 

If SP gave 1 Umbra- " I am forced to repeat entire starchart for 1 Umbra? DE is lazy and wants me to repeat content for something that's rare and I NEED it!"

If SP gave many Umbra " DE made SP the only reliable place to get Umbra, forcing me to repeat the entire star chart instead of making actual content. DE is lazy and money hungry! "

It's lose lose with adding Umbra. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, DariusMcSwag said:

Perhaps then the problem is being able to stun/nuke the entire room. Not disable abilities, just change the ones that only take 1 button to clear a tile.

If that were to change, then maybe we could get better AI that could react faster, flank, and dodge some of our attacks. I would really like to see the AI use squad based tactics that play off of the individual strengths of the units to make the whole team more difficult to fight.

Also having them be aware of one another in a fight would be a nice change. Try to surround us more and not just charge at us in a conga line.

Well, one thing that could be done to make it seem like the AI is smart, is just increase the 'vision' and 'hearing' range of the enemies.

I want to feel like a Ninja, but when the enemies too dumb to realize I just offed his buddy standing right next to them, within what looks like a 45 degree angle of it's 12 o'clock, well within the almost 180 of an actual human... It's hard to feel like I've done something special.

Lower level enemies could maybe be explained like Storm Troopers, the Grineer and Corpus do have those helmets.

But, anyway, I want to do a stealth mission and feel like I earned it. Other players who've bought it up in the past may feel and want to feel the same.

=-=-=

I'm aware of Ivara and others, who can just stealth and sleep the enemy (haven't used Ivara yet)... and that's fine, but doing that technique is a different feeling. For that, I'm just exploiting the game, rules, and frames. And that's fine. But, maybe I want to take out an Ash, Loki, or even an Excalibur, and stealth through a difficult mission with intelligent enemies, and feel like I earned it when I didn't set off any alarms, or better yet killed them all without anyone noticing.

But when it's super easy to do it, because the enemies are dumb, or seem dumb, then it doesn't even feel worth the time and effort.

Edited by Sasuga
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

By this logic, you make Steel Path a necessary grind. That's not the intention. 

If anything, all of you Umbra hungry players should be asking for Umbra forma in ESO or Arbitration. 

If SP gave 1 Umbra- " I am forced to repeat entire starchart for 1 Umbra? DE is lazy and wants me to repeat content for something that's rare and I NEED it!"

If SP gave many Umbra " DE made SP the only reliable place to get Umbra, forcing me to repeat the entire star chart instead of making actual content. DE is lazy and money hungry! "

It's lose lose with adding Umbra. 

Not sure how your logic shows my idea as a necessary grind.... it can only be seen that way if you think that umbra forma is essential, it's not.  You don't 'need' to use umbra mods and personally I don't see an issue with having to do steel path maps to acquire umbra forma, it's where they're more useful after all.

We currently have people complaining about the low amount of umbra forma and due to the fact they can't get umbra forma outside of nightwave... then when DE added a farmable place (albeit with it's own issues) it was was abused and then removed.....so no one apart from those 'abusing' (or lucked into it) the system were able to get any umbra outside of nightwaves.

At the end of the day DE wants us to go through the SP star chart at least once, they wouldn't have stuck XP to it otherwise and to be fair this is basically all they've got for us for a while.  Yet a lot of players (myself included) are complaining about a reason to do it because the reward suck (and the missions are boring in all honesty).  Some players want umbra as a reward from the store, some players want it rewarded for a certain amount of 'effort', some players don't want it in SP (no idea why...). 

I personally see my suggestion as a perfectly viable and reasonable way of adding a set amount of forma into a 'high level' players inventory, umbra mods were never intended for the old star map, yet they can serve a purpose against 'higher level' enemies on SP. 

I'd argue adding umbra forma into ESO or arbitrations would cause more of the issue you're trying to raise than adding it to SP would...working our way through each SP planet for a guaranteed drop is far less grindy than having to keep doing eso/arbitrations hoping for it to drop from rng (and we all know it would be a low drop chance).

Edited by LSG501
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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

it was was abused and then removed.....so no one apart from those 'abusing' (or lucked into it) the system were able to get any umbra outside of nightwaves.

 

Not intended for SP

Edited by Hypernaut1
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14 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

By this logic, you make Steel Path a necessary grind. That's not the intention. 

If anything, all of you Umbra hungry players should be asking for Umbra forma in ESO or Arbitration. 

If SP gave 1 Umbra- " I am forced to repeat entire starchart for 1 Umbra? DE is lazy and wants me to repeat content for something that's rare and I NEED it!"

If SP gave many Umbra " DE made SP the only reliable place to get Umbra, forcing me to repeat the entire star chart instead of making actual content. DE is lazy and money hungry! "

It's lose lose with adding Umbra. 

I don't believe it has to be a lose lose with Umbra Forma. Simply add it to Teshin's store at whatever cost seems appropriate to DE, and then put a time limit of one month (or more depending on DE's discretion) on it. This way you don't have to repeat the entire star chart again. You only have to unlock certain nodes that the community will decide are good at getting Steel Essence, and you should be able to get taxi'd to them just like the normal star chart (didn't test this personally for Steel Path but if that's not possible I would consider that a bug).

Someone above said this would be bad, players farming only some or one map to death for Steel Essence/whatever other rewards. But let's face it, that's inevitable. Either people will farm one node to death, or none at all. And if the Steel Path becomes more of a monthly grind to get your Umbra Forma like I'm suggesting, farming one or a couple of nodes might actually be a good thing to concentrate the playerbase, since as it stands the Steel Path will be basically completely deserted in a month or less.

In the current iteration, most objective-focused missions are already essentially pointless to play in the Steel Path, because you can simply ignore the enemies and just do the objective and run to extraction, meaning the modifiers are essentially not even there. Like in Capture, Rescue, Spy, Sabotage, etc..

The endless modes are the real highlight of the Steel Path anyway, as I believe they should be since this whole thing started with 1+ hour survival players wishing the enemy level would start a bit higher than it does so they don't have to wait so long. That's the point of the mode. If you can play some long survivals with plenty of Eximus units to go around and a balanced amount of Steel Essence drops, and then hop in every month or so to do that, to get your one monthly Umbra Forma, I think that would be the best case scenario for this mode.

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The drop rate of Steel Essence is far far too low
Fully completed Earth, already reached Sedna, only 1 riven sliver and 0 Steel essence drops. It needs to be raised a lot to justify the prices on the shop

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1 minute ago, RevanZim said:

I don't believe it has to be a lose lose with Umbra Forma. Simply add it to Teshin's store at whatever cost seems appropriate to DE, and then put a time limit of one month (or more depending on DE's discretion) on it. This way you don't have to repeat the entire star chart again. You only have to unlock certain nodes that the community will decide are good at getting Steel Essence, and you should be able to get taxi'd to them just like the normal star chart (didn't test this personally for Steel Path but if that's not possible I would consider that a bug).

Someone above said this would be bad, players farming only some or one map to death for Steel Essence/whatever other rewards. But let's face it, that's inevitable. Either people will farm one node to death, or none at all. And if the Steel Path becomes more of a monthly grind to get your Umbra Forma like I'm suggesting, farming one or a couple of nodes might actually be a good thing to concentrate the playerbase, since as it stands the Steel Path will be basically completely deserted in a month or less.

In the current iteration, most objective-focused missions are already essentially pointless to play in the Steel Path, because you can simply ignore the enemies and just do the objective and run to extraction, meaning the modifiers are essentially not even there. Like in Capture, Rescue, Spy, Sabotage, etc..

The endless modes are the real highlight of the Steel Path anyway, as I believe they should be since this whole thing started with 1+ hour survival players wishing the enemy level would start a bit higher than it does so they don't have to wait so long. That's the point of the mode. If you can play some long survivals with plenty of Eximus units to go around and a balanced amount of Steel Essence drops, and then hop in every month or so to do that, to get your one monthly Umbra Forma, I think that would be the best case scenario for this mode.

So you actually think people will be happy to farm steel path nodes every month? This still makes SP more mandatory. If a player isn't interested in +100 enemies, but want to min/max of using Umbra, they need to complete SP , then continually farm it to get 1 Umbra every month. Horrible idea. 

I like SP, and not even I want to be compelled to farm it order to earn my yearly allotment of Umbra forma. 

I don't think it matters if SP is dead. It's simply a challenge run of star map. DE might actually prefer it if the majority of the player base didn't migrate to it and stay there. I doubt they intend for it to become the new standard.

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Posted (edited)

* Steel Essence drop rates are far too low. I got only 4 of them while clearing an entire planet.

* The new Operator armor from Teshin looks cool, however I think the male and female parts should be sold as separate blueprints, not just switch their appearence based on your Operator's gender, so that we can mix & match between both versions of the armor.

* You should reconsider the bonus armor of Steel Path enemies. The difference between Grineer and other enemies (particularly Infested) is so massive because Grineer essentially double dip on the bonuses. I think removing that bonus armor multiplier entirely would alleviate some of this faction discrepancy as well as toning down the tedious bullet sponginess.

* I agree with previous posters - Umbra Forma blueprints should be sold by Teshin.

Edited by Mephane
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1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If a player isn't interested in +100 enemies, but want to min/max of using Umbra

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that the amount of people that want to min/max with Umbra Forma but at the same time do not want to fight and test their gear against high level enemies is very, very small. If you think of those two groups as a Venn diagram, they should essentially overlap almost completely. Or maybe I'm just a terrible judge of people's interests.

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I like SP, and not even I want to be compelled to farm it order to earn my yearly allotment of Umbra forma. 

In a perfect world (and with the way they implemented the slider on the side, I feel this is also intentional) you would not be forced to farm the Steel Path, ever. All you would have to do is click the slider on the right to enable it, and then play the mission you intended to play anyway, be it sortie, nightmare, void fissure, lich, you name it. And it would simply be a harder mission with eximus enemies also dropping Steel Essence. That's it. So you throw it on every month or so and farm up your Essence for the Umbra Forma (forcing you to at least work for your reward a little bit unlike Nightwave) and then turn it off again when you're done. The extra "challenge" of completing the whole map is independant of this functionality, as you can get taxi'd.

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I don't think it matters if SP is dead. It's simply a challenge run of star map. DE might actually prefer it if the majority of the player base didn't migrate to it and stay there. I doubt they intend for it to become the new standard.

It not mattering whether it's dead is a sad prospect. Quite possibly the most realistic future for the mode, but sad nonetheless.

But I don't think that has to be the future. Maybe the most realistic one, but it could be more. I don't think this has to be only a challenge run of the star map either, it could be more than that. Like the monthly challenge thing I'm proposing, kind of like a monthly alert you can finish on your own time.

I, too, believe it should not become the new standard, but I also think it does matter if it's just dead. That's why I'm proposing what I'm proposing.

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I decided to self-impose myself the challenge of going through all the base star chart mandatory missions in steel path with nyx and a full mecha modset, however I have surrendered after getting past sargas ruk in saturn. I will not comment on the resources and drops because I believe there are greater issues than just tweaking a few numbers (not to mention that it is a long term complain with the mission structure to begin with). These are my main observations:

Defense objectives, hostages and excavators health & shields

More than likely a bug but only defense objectives and consoles are having any realistic ammount of health and shields for the enemies present in any mission. I've had excavators spawn as level 1 with 7k health and same goes for hostages. I also would like to bring atention to the decaying health rate of the 2 remaining hijack missions, which make them extremely hard to manage as they cannot be healed and lose about 1k every 10-15 seconds.

Steel path's new spawn method

Immediatly I noticed that the usual spawn method of enemies "in the closet" has been disabled for this mode, I am not sure if this is intentional or an oversight, but enemies teleport to the rooms I am about to enter, with their statuses intact. I was able to cast nyx's chaos and a couple of rooms later I would find chaos'ed enemies I would not have been able to reach. This also has the sad malfunction of my dear mecha mod set, as it seems to falsely mark multiple enemies, none of them applying the set's effects. I also have the suspicion that enemies in the teleport backlog are getting duplicated/revived in endless missions (specially in corpus survival, while "camping" on a closed room)

Damage inconsistencies

It is no secret that adaptative damage reduction exists in several layers, sometimes in the same enemies such as the new corpus treasurer, however one of the greatest aditions to the game this year -and IMO ever- was status gating for special or boss-type enemies. While I did skipped vay hek and raptors for the time being, I did fought jackal, the sargeant and both versions of lech krill and vor; all of them with more than enjoyable degrees of resistence and opposition to my nyx setup.

However, it was at alad v's fight that I noticed the status gating being not just gone but replaced with multiple DR layers. Zanuka's shield values were completely unaffected by any elemental damage, including impact and magnetic (from weapons with 100%+ status chance). Alad himself did had status gating but it was constantly cleansed, not sure if it was zanuka's doing or his own behavior. What I do know is that even when zanuka's shields were depleted both in the UI and in the fight, she still took shield damage with her tiny bit of health remaining. I switched to hildryn and I managed to beat this fight through miraculous -read glitchy- viral-slash instances being misscalculated through invulnerability phases but not shown in UI.

Sargas ruk was also changed in the way he calculates damage, with his usual radiation and viral weaknesses somehow being disabled. While I understand that sargas is an special case since melee and projectiles do not collide with his weakspots at all, I do not understand how or why was my tombfinger kitgun able to deal more damage to him with impact damage, which according to wiki and the codex, sargas has 25% resistence to. It was a slog of a fight, other hitscan weapons were just as effective (500-800 dmg per shot with several damage instances being null), I suspect it was able to get away with this just because my kitgun had radiation and got double checked as radiation damage...even if the UI said yellow critical impact impact damage.

On a final note, the night before the update I fought a level 115 stalker on a lich mission. It was a challenging fight, lasted a fair amount of time but I eventually won by virtue of my fortuna amp and operator arcane for crit damage. When stalker invaded me on jupiter today, with level 120 stats, I was not only unable to procc the amp bubble, not only unable to deal any modicum of damage to his shields but also not able to procc statuses on him at all.

Whether or not this is all intended, it has deflated all my enthusiasm about this mode for the time being :c

 

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I've been playing Steel Path for a while now. Guess, I can add my two-bits too.

1. Enemies are bullet sponges that's true, they are not much of a threat. I would suggest old T4 Tower mechanics with increased dmg that scales with each wave/round/level treshold. Moreover, +250% increased EHP is a no no, make it 150% with boosted dmg(200% max). Mix it with dodge and parkour mechanics and that's what would make players more engaged.

2. Something that was proposed above. Increase Eximus spawn rate and Steel Essence drop chance, ~10% would be nice I guess if Eximus spawn rates are also higher. Grind would be reduced and more enjoyable, but that's only my opinion.

3. More Teshin! I love his voice lines, should absolutely replace Lotus voicelines.

4. Steel Path Honors store! Different rewards, stance forma is nice, orokin catalysts/reactors would be cool, build normal Forma would be amazing, more Dax cosmetics, some conclave cosmetics maybe, maybe some specific Mods in the future, 1 day boosters for balanced Essence cost. All of that mb something more but for Teshin's sake boost Essence drop chance and Eximus spawn rate!

5. I haven't noticed any significant affinity increase, boost it more? 

6. More ways to acquire Steel Essence and Riven Slivers? Maybe Assassination targets can drop it at increased chance? Way more than 10% but maybe 20 or 30% since Eidolons have 100% drop. Moreover, bosses are ANNOYING now, bullet sponges, no threat, it just takes longer even with OP riven weps (especially bosses like Sargas Ruk).

Change them a bit, mix some stats, add Sortie modifiers to their missions that change randomly, lower their armor&HP a bit, some significant dmg increase and better rewards would be SICK! Would enforce players to avoid their attacks, learn attack patterns and follow mechanics. With some decent drops like build Forma, Riven Sliver, Kuva boosters, Radiant Relics, Steel Essence = enjoyment & reward(satisfaction).

7. Tier 6 Bounties, add some better rewards or double it, increase drop chance i.e for Eidolon LEns.

 

8. OMG Tusk Thumpers! Pls, rework them, I hate them in normal Bounties and now? Without slowing frame and hitscan wep it's living hell and waste of time. Destroying their legs should slow them or stun them, they should have armor parts or sth else all over their bodies that once destroyed reveals weak points with dmg modifiers to main frame (5x more i.e) also their main body should also be vurnerable but with high dmg reduction for example 80-90% dmg reduction but once armor part is down and weak spot revealed it's quick job if players are skilled enough to hit it moving, on the other hand once the legs are destroyed his movements are less frequant, spins less, moves slower easier to kill. Drops what bosses drop or just some rare Grineer loot! His dmg could be boosted too, all Thumpers can do for now is annoy players with knockdowns.

9. Haven't tested Orb Valis bounties yet with smoll Orbs or Tier 6 bounties. Nor did I try Eidolons - but I guess it's hard, really really hard with the same rewards so meh. Except Steel Essence but once players get armor there's nothing else to get.

Overall, I enjoy Steel Path, feels like New Game + and that's nice. For some casual fun and enjoyment it's pretty nice. I can enjoy though enemies on Earth, Mars which are nice tilesets. However, for the long run I can't see it work, even for me, even for fun. Players will leave it really as fast as they got in. If I were to rush more planets I would burn out rly quickly. Change the rewards a bit and rething what makes a HARD MODE really hard, more armor&HP or harder hitting enemies.

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Energy Restore Cool Down Timers.... ? 

Really DE ? 

I though this was so suppose to Test my arsenal.... well Dropping 20 Energy Restores is my arsenal.... please fix. 

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Thoughts #2, after running with some friends:

Steel Essence drops are either broken or the rate is so low that there's no point trying. We decided to stop playing the Steel Path until this is fixed. Furthermore, since all missions rewards are exactly the same as the normal missions (they don't scale at all), there's no incentive aside from a chance of steel essence to replay the same node. I'd argue that's not enough, due in part to the following:

The buffs that were added to enemies in addition to level don't affect factions in the same way, and result in an overall less satisfying experience than any other game mode. Grineer become bullet sponges, while Corpus and Infested melt almost as easily as their unbuffed counterparts. The enemies in E-Prime (Earth, Grineer) were significantly harder to kill than enemies in E-Gate (Venus, Corpus). What does this mean? It means armor as a damage reduction mechanic interacts with health in a very non-linear way, and adding a flat bonus on top of what they get at level X is reintroducing exponential armor scaling. Only now, since the tools we used to negate it were nerfed with the recent damage reworks, we have fewer viable ways of dealing with it.

In short, drop rates and rewards are abysmal as usual, and shields =/= armor. The Steel Path is not balanced at all, and thus isn't reaching its full potential.

Consider lowering armor buff from +150% to +50% or similar, and raising the shield buff from +150% to +250% or similar, in the interest of balance.

Also consider Brozime's suggestion of a loot cave mechanic for endless nodes, where we get scaled up rewards and radiant relics. In addition, how about a similar mechanic for assassination nodes? Such as making the guaranteed drop (instead of warframe parts) be one of: Riven Sliver (common), Steel Essence (uncommon), Endo (common), or a Riven Mod (rare).

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Posted (edited)

some of you also need to realize that the more common Umbra forma become, the less of a reward and motivator it is. DE probably wants to save Umbra forma for their bigger mainline content additions. The fact that so many are starved for Umbra, means its an easy much requested reward to add to next major update. It was the same with Rivens. People kept asking for more ways to get it because they couldnt get enough. DE slowly added more ways to get them. 

Edited by Hypernaut1
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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Not sure how your logic shows my idea as a necessary grind.... it can only be seen that way if you think that umbra forma is essential, it's not.  You don't 'need' to use umbra mods and personally I don't see an issue with having to do steel path maps to acquire umbra forma, it's where they're more useful after all.

Insisting on Umbral Forma dropping from Steel Path is both damaging to Steel Path and backwards logic. It's the same kind of backwards logic I've seen quite often on the forums. Player A wants a thing that they know DE don't want to give out. Player A proposes rewarding the thing from Activity B that they know DE consider exclusive. The logical connection here isn't one of good design. We're not asking for Umbral Forma in Steel Path because it makes sense. We're asking for Umbral Forma in Steel Path as a compromise. People consistently make requests with absurd costs attached to them as a form of bargaining. "Let me use abilities from other Warframes. Make it cost 100 Forma." Increasing the cost of acquisition will not (or at least should not) increase the likelihood of a suggestion being accepted.

Secondly, yes - this will turn Steel Path into a necessary farm. Umbral Forma is exceptionally powerful and very scarce. It's one of the very few sources of obvious progression for players who already have a collection of Umbral mods. ANY form of hard progression you offer players will turn the content which offers said progression into a necessary farm. Turning Steel Path into a farm is just about the most reliable way of ruining it in the long run. Pushing players into playing it who don't want to play it is simply going to generate a steady stream complaints which WILL reach critical mass. It's useful to think about the broad picture of how the rewards YOU want affect the content you're trying to put them in. Just because Steel Path is supposed to be "hard mode" doesn't make it a good excuse to get more Umbral Forma - especially when you then go on to argue about how it isn't needed.

At the end of the day, I don't think more players SHOULD play Steel Path. It's boring and tedious and exactly the kind of dry min-maxing gameplay I was expecting. In short, it's an excuse for people with broken-overpowered builds to flex their inventory against enemies who merit it. Yes, it can be made trivial, but listen to what Teshin says. Victory requires full use of one's arsenal. Victory requires min/maxing. I'm perfectly fine leaving Steel Path to the min/maxers, and maybe only ever bothering with it if I have friends on hand to help me.

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4 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:


They can say whatever the hell they want, when words don't mesh up with actions.

To unlock the mode you need more investment than most other missions, to execute the mode (especially in solo), you have to pick a very effective end game loadout. With all my respects to DE, if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and behaves like a duck, calling it a cat won't do much.

no actually you dont, unless youre playing entirely solo.

clearing the star chart isnt really a significant investment. you are entitled to your opinion, and me mine. that said, its definitely not endgame by their standards OR many players. 

 

and to apply your 'logic'

 

you can think of it as whatever the hell you want, that doesnt make it so. lmfao.

Edited by PookieNumnums
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Doesn't feel very rewarding or interesting atm, especially since the map rewards are still the same as far as I can tell. Sure theres the Steel essence and the store but since this is basically a hardmode version of the star chart I would hope to have hardmode equivalent map rewards as well. 

 

I dont mean rivens or umbral formas for every level of course but SOMETHING to make it feel more rewarding... Even if its just a small chance. Right now people just rushing it and dont bother staying in survivals/defence etc longer because theres no point.

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18 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Insisting on Umbral Forma dropping from Steel Path is both damaging to Steel Path and backwards logic. It's the same kind of backwards logic I've seen quite often on the forums. Player A wants a thing that they know DE don't want to give out. Player A proposes rewarding the thing from Activity B that they know DE consider exclusive. The logical connection here isn't one of good design. We're not asking for Umbral Forma in Steel Path because it makes sense. We're asking for Umbral Forma in Steel Path as a compromise. People consistently make requests with absurd costs attached to them as a form of bargaining. "Let me use abilities from other Warframes. Make it cost 100 Forma." Increasing the cost of acquisition will not (or at least should not) increase the likelihood of a suggestion being accepted.

Secondly, yes - this will turn Steel Path into a necessary farm. Umbral Forma is exceptionally powerful and very scarce. It's one of the very few sources of obvious progression for players who already have a collection of Umbral mods. ANY form of hard progression you offer players will turn the content which offers said progression into a necessary farm. Turning Steel Path into a farm is just about the most reliable way of ruining it in the long run. Pushing players into playing it who don't want to play it is simply going to generate a steady stream complaints which WILL reach critical mass. It's useful to think about the broad picture of how the rewards YOU want affect the content you're trying to put them in. Just because Steel Path is supposed to be "hard mode" doesn't make it a good excuse to get more Umbral Forma - especially when you then go on to argue about how it isn't needed.

At the end of the day, I don't think more players SHOULD play Steel Path. It's boring and tedious and exactly the kind of dry min-maxing gameplay I was expecting. In short, it's an excuse for people with broken-overpowered builds to flex their inventory against enemies who merit it. Yes, it can be made trivial, but listen to what Teshin says. Victory requires full use of one's arsenal. Victory requires min/maxing. I'm perfectly fine leaving Steel Path to the min/maxers, and maybe only ever bothering with it if I have friends on hand to help me.

DE have already tried to add umbra forma into the game via other methods than nightwave, so they are open to adding it via other means.  The previous approach failed due to the way it was implemented and the way players approached it.  DE's approach was clearly to keep the number of umbra forma 'low' but some players didn't like that approach so 'abused' the system and had it removed.  If you add it into the store it will literally be excessive grinding that is required to get the umbra forma because it will be highly priced... not to say there will be some people that will grind it excessively anyway. 

By making it a reliable guaranteed drop at set points, with a restricted amount, it removes the necessity to grind for things excessively because you know it will be there when you get there, you don't need to rush for it.  IMO you can't call something a grind when it is literally just doing something once....my suggestion gives players choice, they can do SP in one go, they can do a planet each time they feel they need an umbra forma for a build or they can spread it out and just work their way through as they feel like it... no matter which approach they take they would still get the same rewards, just at different rates. 

You make the assumption that umbra forma would make people play something they don't want to play.... doubtful imo.... you just need to look at conclave and it's rewards to see that players will avoid stuff they don't like.  It's also not like umbra forma are 'essential' either, I've literally used one umbra forma from all the nightwave missions, yet most of my frames have at least one umbra mod, often 2 on them, umbra forma isn't so much about changing builds but about giving a bit more freedom in builds by halfing the cost of an umbral mod. 

 

 

I agree SP is tedious too but if I'm going to do it, I would at least like 'something' worthwhile from doing it and lets be honest outside of rivens (and they've added slivers to drag that out already), umbra forma and existing items from nightwave etc, what exactly do high level players want that DE can add without actually doing any additional work.  More armor etc would mean more work for DE.... I'd maybe say maybe arcanes but then that would defeat the point of doing eidolons or scarlet spear if it returns (not to mention how many complaints DE got over scarlet spear and arcanes).

 

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