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The Steel Path: Feedback Megathread!


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vor 31 Minuten schrieb LSG501:

I agree SP is tedious too but if I'm going to do it, I would at least like 'something' worthwhile from doing it and lets be honest outside of rivens (and they've added slivers to drag that out already), umbra forma and existing items from nightwave etc, what exactly do high level players want that DE can add without actually doing any additional work.  More armor etc would mean more work for DE.... I'd maybe say maybe arcanes but then that would defeat the point of doing eidolons or scarlet spear if it returns (not to mention how many complaints DE got over scarlet spear and arcanes).

Forma. You can never have enough of them.^^

vor 33 Minuten schrieb LSG501:

You make the assumption that umbra forma would make people play something they don't want to play.... doubtful imo.... you just need to look at conclave and it's rewards to see that players will avoid stuff they don't like.  It's also not like umbra forma are 'essential' either, I've literally used one umbra forma from all the nightwave missions, yet most of my frames have at least one umbra mod, often 2 on them, umbra forma isn't so much about changing builds but about giving a bit more freedom in builds by halfing the cost of an umbral mod. 

I think a comparison with defense or an other boring mission would fit better. Conclave has the problem that it's just completly broken.

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Steel Path can't be that "hard", by simply raising the enemy levels. Some modifications are also needed in the actual gameplay to make that mode unique and actually hard.

I don't know maybe put some random modifiers (electric ground for instance) that can change every x minutes? Something that will force players to complete the same missions but with differtent ways this time.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Forma. You can never have enough of them.^^

 

Actually, if I'm being honest... I'm at the point where I think I have enough of a cushion to not really worry over them but lets be honest we can grab them from the excessive amounts of unused relics we have... I've lost count of how many relics I have just sitting there gathering dust. 

I'm sitting on 70, give or take, forma and although I still have to waste a load on the mr fodder kuva weapons (if I want the full mr) I'm not exactly short on them and I'm sure I could keep my stock up while doing kuva weapons by just doing a few relics while levelling them. 

7 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

I think a comparison with defense or an other boring mission would fit better. Conclave has the problem that it's just completly broken.

To be fair there are people that like defence and even interception, can't say they're my favourite but I'm quite happy going 5-20 rounds on defence, interception is just dull... conclave on the other hand, wouldn't touch it to be honest no matter what reward it has. 

Edited by LSG501
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This update comes as a huge disappointment. Honestly things were looking better with Deadlock Protocol, the content wasn't bad, the rewards were a bit poorly thought out for long term viability, though. This, the Steel Path, is a huge step back bringing back the bullet sponge nightmare of early Railjack with nearly nonexistent rewards and a shop that has nothing of worth in it because the acquisition rate for Steel Essence is comically bad. The built in boosters are neat, but far from enough to make me want to deal with the extended grind that comes with the Steel Path. It's clear you guys understand that the rewards tables are a bit out of date, you were brushing them up not too long ago, so why would you release another content island that has minimal appeal to the player base and has the same rewards as the normal starchart for 10x the effort and no real extra challenge?

It's 2020, the New War is coming, and with it Sentients as a more common enemy type, in theory. Here we are though, still acting like Umbral Forma should be a luxury resource that makes it difficult, at best, to make good use of Umbral mods. There is a simple solution, but it will take time and is a permanent solution to the problem. Revamp rewards for every node on the Steel Path, including boss drops and assassin drops, add in a special Steel Path tier for Granum Void that has actual permanent rewards if you're feeling extra spicy. Nobody wants this to be another island, and we're not asking it to be and game, but at least make it what it should be: a place that has harder content and gives better rewards and exclusive rewards. Give people a reason to want to do the content that isn't a paltry amount of mastery and the same emote with a different background.

This is especially frustrating to me because I can see the potential, but that's not enough to make me want to suffer through the bad updates forever. Please stop rushing out updates especially when the test cluster feedback was so overwhelmingly negative.

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I don't care about the rewards in Steel Path - they aren't impressive, and really, the only ones I have any interest in at all at the moment are the Stance Forma, which I have very limited interest in to begin with, and the Riven Slivers, which are almost entirely novelty to me. I'd still play it if I thought it engaging enough.

What I do care about, obviously, is the gameplay. Does it feel like Steel Path is harder in a meaningful way? No, not really. It just feels like I'm limited to my highest damage weapons and 'strategies' if I want to get through the missions in any kind of reasonable timeframe. Or, of course, cheese methods. Also, feels like my Companions are just all bad ideas - Djinn can Reawaken, Oberon can heal, and anything with Pack Leader-type mods on stays up as long as I'm using melee attacks primarily, but otherwise, they all die very quickly. I don't feel like I need to use better strategies, or to play with more skill, just that I need to have bigger numbers and use status effects that strip defenses or magnify damage.

This is because Steel Path's difficulty is entirely predicated upon the level modifiers, exacerbated by the HP/Armor/Shields multipliers. It's a DPS check, not a challenge, and it feels like the lowest-effort attempt at providing the illusion of an increased challenge that I can imagine.

What I would suggest instead is better AI. Any other suggestion is secondary at best; if the AI doesn't change, it won't matter what is done. Numbers-based solutions lead to numbers-based problems. Also, get a grip on the power creep, stop adding new modes and such for five friggin' minutes, and reinforce what there already is in the game. There are plenty of things that have potential to be excellent, but just don't get attention because the dev team takes off after the next new thing like a dog after a squirrel.

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I noticed that the granum crown holders in hard mode are literally impossible to kill. I tried Mesa's peacemakers and everything, the unreasonable nature of completely status immune enemies with 99% damage reduction doesn't make good content. Especially when it's a timed event that you only get 1 minute to deal damage.

On a similar note, when I was doing Lua mobile defense, sentients spawned in and they also share a similar tanky nature. One of them started the disco spin attack and it destroyed the defense objective in 3 seconds, while taking out a level 100+ sentient takes way longer, with about a minute.

Should these enemies be reworked? There's really no reason why they should possess status immunity and damage reduction/adaptation

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vor einer Stunde schrieb LSG501:

Actually, if I'm being honest... I'm at the point where I think I have enough of a cushion to not really worry over them but lets be honest we can grab them from the excessive amounts of unused relics we have... I've lost count of how many relics I have just sitting there gathering dust. 

I'm sitting on 70, give or take, forma and although I still have to waste a load on the mr fodder kuva weapons (if I want the full mr) I'm not exactly short on them and I'm sure I could keep my stock up while doing kuva weapons by just doing a few relics while levelling them. 

Could you give me some of yours? I could need some for my Kuva karak and the exilus-weapon-adapters.^^

Joke aside imo it's impressive that you have so many left. To get 70 formas someone would need 70 days, except he spent platinum.

vor einer Stunde schrieb LSG501:

To be fair there are people that like defence and even interception, can't say they're my favourite but I'm quite happy going 5-20 rounds on defence, interception is just dull... conclave on the other hand, wouldn't touch it to be honest no matter what reward it has. 

And I prefer interception over defense. In interception I can just take vauban spam some bastilles/ vortexes and watch TV. But defense is for me more like a slow exterminate mission.

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Double post time.^^

vor 10 Minuten schrieb -Damocles-:

I noticed that the granum crown holders in hard mode are literally impossible to kill. I tried Mesa's peacemakers and everything, the unreasonable nature of completely status immune enemies with 99% damage reduction doesn't make good content. Especially when it's a timed event that you only get 1 minute to deal damage.

On a similar note, when I was doing Lua mobile defense, sentients spawned in and they also share a similar tanky nature. One of them started the disco spin attack and it destroyed the defense objective in 3 seconds, while taking out a level 100+ sentient takes way longer, with about a minute.

Should these enemies be reworked? There's really no reason why they should possess status immunity and damage reduction/adaptation

I agree on the corpus guy. They are really hard to kill (but until now i just meet one on venus and I had only a kuva karak and a level 24 Rhino).

But I have to disagree about the sentients. They are still easy to kill. 

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Posted (edited)

I personally do not care about more rewards, but the game mode is neither here nor there at the moment. It's not *just* a way for players to jump into a mission at a higher level, but neither is it something that looks like players might be expected to play regularly. It can't be scaled back, so the only option is to satisfy those who expect something more from the mode and put in some rewards for them. I doubt this will be a problem. Players who would play it anyway will continue to play it. Players who want the rewards will be happy.

 

That leaves only that group of players who will want the rewards but won't want to play it in a pickle. Just make the rewards some (slightly more efficeint than regular starchart) evergreen farming thing rather than powercreep and they probably won't suffer too much from their cognitive dissonance :-P.

Edited by schilds
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27 minutes ago, ES-Flinter said:

Could you give me some of yours? I could need some for my Kuva karak and the exilus-weapon-adapters.^^

Joke aside imo it's impressive that you have so many left. To get 70 formas someone would need 70 days, except he spent platinum.

And I prefer interception over defense. In interception I can just take vauban spam some bastilles/ vortexes and watch TV. But defense is for me more like a slow exterminate mission.

1 a day consistently basically and I don't forma things I don't like if you get me.  I think I've only used exilus weapon adapters like twice... don't see a reason to in most cases and I'm also a bit 'annoyed' by the fact that they're all the wrong damn polarity and essentially force another forma to be used. 

Speed nova for defence, although I will say one thing positive about SP, the speed of the enemies on the defence missions I've done so far is much better  😛

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Hey DE does listen, you guys got Emphemeras added to steel path! Not exactly Umbra Forma, but they kind of sound the same phonetically right? Close enough

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3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

You make the assumption that umbra forma would make people play something they don't want to play.... doubtful imo.... you just need to look at conclave and it's rewards to see that players will avoid stuff they don't like.  It's also not like umbra forma are 'essential' either, I've literally used one umbra forma from all the nightwave missions, yet most of my frames have at least one umbra mod, often 2 on them, umbra forma isn't so much about changing builds but about giving a bit more freedom in builds by halfing the cost of an umbral mod. 

I think you're vastly underestimating the power of incentive. OK, sure - the Conclave is unpopular just because people's hatred of PvP overrides pretty much any incentive. Look at Nightwave, though. I wouldn't have bothered with ANY of it, were it not for the Umbral Forma. Read through the forums and you'll see that a lot of others are in the same boat. Sure, we care about the cosmetics. We're already committed to getting to Rank 26, might as well grab the honestly pretty cool Nightwave Landing Craft.

Now granted - a single Umbral Forma ever from Steel Path isn't that big of a deal. Like you said - it's a non-repeatable reward so its impact is minimal. I was more commenting on a common trend I see in forum suggestions. Choosing a reward you want and then working backwards to put it somewhere isn't a great way to design progression, especially when it's a deliberately rare reward. Your chances of making it happen are low, and you're always going to get people second-guessing your motives.

 

3 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I agree SP is tedious too but if I'm going to do it, I would at least like 'something' worthwhile from doing it and lets be honest outside of rivens (and they've added slivers to drag that out already), umbra forma and existing items from nightwave etc, what exactly do high level players want that DE can add without actually doing any additional work.  More armor etc would mean more work for DE.... I'd maybe say maybe arcanes but then that would defeat the point of doing eidolons or scarlet spear if it returns (not to mention how many complaints DE got over scarlet spear and arcanes).

I don't know. To me, that's a self-defeating attitude. Do you enjoy Steel Path? Because if you don't, then adding more rewards isn't going to make it any less tedious. You're just getting "paid" more. That kind of transactional approach to video games is the fast track to burnout. If you really do find Steel Path tedious, then I'd recommend just not bothering. I almost certainly won't - not for a looong time, anyway. I'm not saying that being rewarded for your time is bad. Just... If you catch yourself doing this kind of cost/value calculation, chances are there's no value there at all.

As to your actual question - I don't know what DE could add without more work. I don't believe in the concept of "evergreen rewards" or "sustainable rewards" or whatever else they want to call it. There's nothing "fun" about grinding for rentals, consumables, upkeep and all the other just to keep grinding through the progression system. Rivens, Kuva and the other aspects of Warframe's "lootboxes by another name" aren't really sustainable, either. They're just another type of consumable. Me personally, I find "not playing Steel Path" to be a perfectly legitimate response to it. Hell, this is probably the first time I've been able to make that choice without the game constantly twisting my arm over it.

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Hey there DE,

As a completionist and lore fan, please make the following changes:

1. Add a way to re-watch the latest story arc events CHIMERA PROLOGUE & ERRA. There is currently no way to view these events a second time.

2. Please add a way to re-listen to Nora's crime scene comments on the Glasswave evidence, as well as her concluding comments after you get out of the weave. Twice now i've made the same mistake of running back to the nightwave menu screen, and her monologue is completely silenced with no way to hear it again. I have to go to youtube to find someone's recording. This sucks.

Thank you for listening. Hopefully this post will get upvoted.
(Or if there is a way to repeat these things and I can't find it, please teach me)

Edited by dothax0r
typo
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Forgot to add this separate comment, on-topic for Steel Path: For everyone thinking they can skip it, apparently it adds to your mastery as a separate value. So, if you want to reach MR30 as soon as possible, you've got to complete the star chart again. FYI

Edited by dothax0r
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2 hours ago, (PS4)Pragmatic_2015 said:

How to improve Steel Path in 5 words....

Steel Path grants Conclave Standing....

 

This will definitely anger the conclave tryhards, which is why we should absolutely do that

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Loving the idea, loving the concept so far..Enjoying Steel path honestly
But if u ask me to tell about something to make this even better I would ask to add some more and better rewards in teshin store,,maybe umbra forma..with high cost
Maybe some new ephemeras, new syndanas, armor sets, even new augments, STEEL PATH exclusive rare ,mods...
SO that Ppl wont feel like the mode is less rewarding after getting all the current rewards...
I know u guys are still working on it and checking our feedbacks..I hope u guys add more cool rewards in the Steel Path pool...looking forward to it... I personally am a collector ...I have all the ephemeras..so I would really really love some new ones ❤️

Thank you for the update

Stay safe and Keep giving us amazing content and stuffs ..  🙂

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I think you should get rid of all the useless common mods and what not from rotation rewards. Just have things like larger credit caches, larger endo rewards, steel essence (rotational reward would be nice instead of just RNG from eximus), forma BPs, splinters, kuva, medallions, random cosmetic crap etc and only leave rarer rewards in the existing tables (like rare mods or whatever).

I know it's not meant to be "end game," but that doesn't mean the rewards can't at least be turned up to make them worth doing outside of clearing for mastery. While there are a lot of nodes to go through to change all the rewards, replacing rotational rewards seems like an easy way to make the mode feel better. It also just seems odd that the main thing you want in the mode is just an eximus drop and all the rotational rewards are just a waste of UI space on the reward screen. Essence being the only thing that matters and only coming from eximus will mean people will simply find the best eximus farm, go to that node and ignore the entire rest of the star chart. 

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(sorry horrible english)

At the Devstream, we were told there were two of them, a +50 and a +100.

but..."Lv +100 and Armor/Shield/Health +150%" only? are you crazy?
How in the world are we supposed to proceed when even KUVA CHAKKHURR and KUVA BRAMMA are completely garbage?

YOU WANT ME TO DESTROY THE SHIFT KEY(i'm using for crouch) WITH OCTAVIA!?

There's no reason to play The Stee Path in this situation, no matter how good the rewards are.

IN THE EXTREME, even if you could get some real cash, it wouldn't change.

 

"Lv +100 with Armor/Shield/Health +150%" is not a game, this is torture.

i want "Lv +50" for fun... :s

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Steel Path should be expanded beyond regular starchart missions. Sorties, fissures, invasions, even arbitrations - they should all be included.

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The only problem I have with hard mode is replayability, once you get your stuff, there is no reason to come back... because:

  • 100% Mod booster and 100% drop chance booster, while good in paper... are not really what long thermed players want, we have tons of regular materials and almost all the farmable mods... why more? those boosters are for the starter players that are asking for enemie nerfs. Even a +50% resource booster would come handy... for kuva farming.
  • Steel essence drop chance from eximus is low, it is 5% by now (I think)... why don´t you bump it up a little more. I´ve played 8 planets already and didn´t get a single one from eximus units (even using things like nekros´ desacrate). Make eximus units spawn more frequently (overall or in certain nodes like darksectors) or bump up the steel essence drop chance.
  • Kuva is always a welcome reward, but 10000 kuva is not enough considering the fact that after the tenth roll each successive roll costs 3500 kuva, doing the maths... 10000 kuva is not even 3 rolls. Adressing the high RNG of rivens and the difficulty we´r dealing with... Why don´t you give us more kuva? 20000 would be great... I´d grind the entire hard mode solar system for 20000 kuva or even 30000 kuva (considering the 5% drop chance of steel essence from eximus).
  • I love the fact of eidolons lvl 110 dropping a guaranteed steel essence, why don´t you do the same for the profit-taker (lvl 110 or 150 let´s say).
  • Stance forma adds little variety... I saw people asking for umbral forma and If something long thermed players really run out of... it is regular FORMA. If you´r not about to add umbral forma, i´m fine with that but please... add built forma to the rewards. (3 forma pack for 25 steel essence would be amazing and again... I´d grind the entire solar system for it).

 

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Steel path needs better rewards asap

As a 7 year player the 2x resources and affinity means nothing to me and the only resource that we farm more is kuva and that wasn't even increased in the steel path 

Still the same boring stuff no risk reward at all

All I wanted was to goi in a kuva surv with lvl100+ and fight my way for better kuva drops and last until I can against tougher enemy's

But for a measly 200 per extractor is a big no no

I love arbitration why ?

You get +- ok vitus drops 

You get Endo

You get mods 

You get arcanes 

And after a 2/3/4 hour runs you turn in your spoils of war for stuff or kuva

""Steel path on the other hand""

Sadly I can see that this mode is going to be another ESO after people get all stuff becomes a dead game mode

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There is absolutely nothing challenging or fun about Steel Path.  It's just a tedious chore that punishes you for wanting to use anything other than top of the meta weapons and frames.

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7 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

I don't know. To me, that's a self-defeating attitude. Do you enjoy Steel Path? Because if you don't, then adding more rewards isn't going to make it any less tedious. You're just getting "paid" more. That kind of transactional approach to video games is the fast track to burnout. If you really do find Steel Path tedious, then I'd recommend just not bothering. I almost certainly won't - not for a looong time, anyway. I'm not saying that being rewarded for your time is bad. Just... If you catch yourself doing this kind of cost/value calculation, chances are there's no value there at all.

This is the thing... I'd enjoy it more if I actually got something worthwhile from it, you know something for my time investment....I still haven't seen a single steel essence or riven sliver (not that that matters, I'm full on rivens without buying more slots) and no body can deny the other rewards are lacklustre (maybe ok for the operator armor but that has it's own issues)

I don't enjoy railjack, but I also take the opportunity to do things I don't enjoy when they're 'more popular' purely because there will be other people doing it... I can see SP being dead pretty soon and I just don't feel like doing SP solo even though I know I can.

7 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

As to your actual question - I don't know what DE could add without more work. I don't believe in the concept of "evergreen rewards" or "sustainable rewards" or whatever else they want to call it. There's nothing "fun" about grinding for rentals, consumables, upkeep and all the other just to keep grinding through the progression system. Rivens, Kuva and the other aspects of Warframe's "lootboxes by another name" aren't really sustainable, either. They're just another type of consumable. Me personally, I find "not playing Steel Path" to be a perfectly legitimate response to it. Hell, this is probably the first time I've been able to make that choice without the game constantly twisting my arm over it.

The thing is I can get kuva and relic packs far faster by other means to SP... kuva can be farmed normally or I can grab it far easier from nightwave, relic packs are easily gained from syndicates and to be honest 90% of the time don't give me the relic I want anyway... I already have enough relics I have no need for.

I'm working my way through it 'slowly' because I just have this feeling that DE might do a 'DE thing' and force something into use with something else later on... we only need to look at the way they stuck certain frames behind little duck for example... not saying they will but as I said earlier, I'd rather do it while it's 'popular', although everyone I've seen so far is literally doing the bare minimum on missions.

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