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The Steel Path: Feedback Megathread!


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Posted (edited)

I think this mode needs to be "reimagined" with different priorities.

Taken from the "what it is/isn't" thread, it seems it is literally just a mode to start a mission off at a higher level.

I think the idea that this could be the "pinnacle" difficulty for every mission could be interesting. What I mean is, every mission is the same level rather than just gradually increasing. Players already have gotten to a point where they have cleared the star chart anyway, so why not just start off at the same highest level?

I think the enemies were a bit chonky during the test cluster (super high time-to-kill) and with only reducing the stat scaling with its launch has caused it to just be a breeze for most players. I think the idea that sorties take towards general gameplay could help to increase this difficulty beyond numbers. Here are some of my suggestions:

  • Forbid use of ciphers
  • Spy missions require all vaults be successfully hacked
  • Exterminate missions have the higher-end objectives, more enemies required to kill
  • Defense objectives taken from sorties (NPCs that wander and can be revived)
  • Static planetary modifiers similar to sortie mission-specific modifiers (this would ensure the gameplay planet-to-planet would be different, if every mission was the same level)
  • (Additional, mission-type restrictions/changes with sorties as a clear influence)

I don't know if liches will be affected by this, but the Thumpers on the Plains of Eidolon have put into perspective that enemies with a high damage resistance as well as status immunity are not enjoyable to fight at all. This was a major concern of mine with the initial launch of liches and I'm glad steps have been taken towards removing these immunities. It's denying a large portion of gameplay choice to players, and isn't this why changes such as the nerf to Xoris' interactions with warframe are made? This has me worried for future boss encounters, as I already know Vay Hek is a slog, as well as the mere existence of sentients causing concern.

I really don't like offering suggestions for things that don't exist, so I tried to make suggestions based around difficulty modifiers that already exist in game.

I do enjoy the fact that at the very least this mode gives additional mastery. This will help ensure another completion of the star chart. I think the idea of the current rewards system is fine, but should be expanded upon. As far as specific rewards in the shop, I understand there's room for growth. What I mean is increased drops for the steel essence. Arbitrations have the benefit of having regularly rewarded currency while also providing a random element for more drops. I think each mission should reward atleast 1 steel essence, similar to an arbitration, and maybe increased drop rate? I'm playing with no boosters and have only done around 10 missions on launch with no eximus drops, save a single riven sliver. I think prices in the shop could be increased to reflect these changes.

As stated from earlier feedback, I think Teshin's inclusion is great. I think he as a character deserves more of a spotlight and I think his replacement of the lotus in these missions is enjoyable. At the time of launch, however, liches dialogue will play at the end-of-mission screens with Teshin.

All in all, I enjoy the idea of an increased difficulty mode, but how the Steel Path is currently does not align with how I have come to understand these types of modes in games. There is not enough meaningful challenge added to this mode. In the worst description possible, it just seems like a complete asset-reuse in a lazy fashion to give a few cosmetics. I think it could greatly benefit from difficulty that stems from mechanics rather than only relying on stats that don't scale evenly across all enemies.

I look forward to any changes this mode may see.

Edited by TheWestmark
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First few missions were fine, although guns feel underpowered if not used with damage buffing abilities.

Interception feels really bad solo. Maybe it's just me, but it is extremely difficult to take over data capture progress due to how many enemies are on the map at any given moment.

With full squad it is fine, but with one player interception becomes extremely frustrating.

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Posted (edited)

First of all, thanks for update!

As a player who really like to see big numbers above enemy health bars, I'm really satisfied that I don't have to wait hour to see level 100, also they seem a little bit tougher what is nice change too. Overall when it comes to enemies I'm really satisfied. 100% modifiers for players benefit seem really generous too.

I would like to see also endurance community request fullfilled, that is rewards scalling with survival time, hell, make it even simillar to relics system, you survived 30 minutes, grab a 20%/25% resource boost, and end stacking boost at 100%, Steel essences would be of course not included in scaling.

Rewards apart from kuva and armor seem pretty dull, but I believe it would be improved upon and small range of them comes from fact of Steel Path existing for about a hour. I would advise agains throwing umbral forma into reward pool tho, it feels like buying aura forma bundle for 10p.

From things I would add:
 

Quote

TheWestmark:

  • Forbid use of ciphers
  • Spy missions require all vaults be successfully hacked
  • Exterminate missions have the higher-end objectives, more enemies required to kill
  • Defense objectives taken from sorties (NPCs that wander and can be revived)
  • Static planetary modifiers similar to sortie mission-specific modifiers (this would ensure the gameplay planet-to-planet would be different, if every mission was the same level)
  • (Additional, mission-type restrictions/changes with sorties as a clear influence)

 

Edited by --Aegis--Crimewavez.
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5 minutes ago, TheWestmark said:

I think this mode needs to be "reimagined" with different priorities.

Taken from the "what it is/isn't" thread, it seems it is literally just a mode to start a mission off at a higher level.

I think the idea that this could be the "pinnacle" difficulty for every mission could be interesting. What I mean is, every mission is the same level rather than just gradually increasing. Players already have gotten to a point where they have cleared the star chart anyway, so why not just start off at the same highest level?

I think the enemies were a bit chonky during the test cluster (super high time-to-kill) and with only reducing the stat scaling with its launch has caused it to just be a breeze for most players. I think the idea that sorties take towards general gameplay could help to increase this difficulty beyond numbers. Here are some of my suggestions:

  • Forbid use of ciphers
  • Spy missions require all vaults be successfully hacked
  • Exterminate missions have the higher-end objectives, more enemies required to kill
  • Defense objectives taken from sorties (NPCs that wander and can be revived)
  • Static planetary modifiers similar to sortie mission-specific modifiers (this would ensure the gameplay planet-to-planet would be different, if every mission was the same level)
  • (Additional, mission-type restrictions/changes with sorties as a clear influence)

I don't know if liches will be affected by this, but the Thumpers on the Plains of Eidolon have put into perspective that enemies with a high damage resistance as well as status immunity are not enjoyable to fight at all. This was a major concern of mine with the initial launch of liches and I'm glad steps have been taken towards removing these immunities. It's denying a large portion of gameplay choice to players, and isn't this why changes such as the nerf to Xoris' interactions with warframe are made? This has me worried for future boss encounters, as I already know Vay Hek is a slog, as well as the mere existence of sentients causing concern.

I really don't like offering suggestions for things that don't exist, so I tried to make suggestions based around difficulty modifiers that already exist in game.

I do enjoy the fact that at the very least this mode gives additional mastery. This will help ensure another completion of the star chart. I think the idea of the current rewards system is fine, but should be expanded upon. As far as specific rewards in the shop, I understand there's room for growth. What I mean is increased drops for the steel essence. Arbitrations have the benefit of having regularly rewarded currency while also providing a random element for more drops. I think each mission should reward atleast 1 steel essence, similar to an arbitration, and maybe increased drop rate? I'm playing with no boosters and have only done around 10 missions on launch with no eximus drops, save a single riven sliver. I think prices in the shop could be increased to reflect these changes.

As stated from earlier feedback, I think Teshin's inclusion is great. I think he as a character deserves more of a spotlight and I think his replacement of the lotus in these missions is enjoyable. At the time of launch, however, liches dialogue will play at the end-of-mission screens with Teshin.

All in all, I enjoy the idea of an increased difficulty mode, but how the Steel Path is currently does not align with how I have come to understand these types of modes in games. There is not enough meaningful challenge added to this mode. In the worst description possible, it just seems like a complete asset-reuse in a lazy fashion to give a few cosmetics. I think it could greatly benefit from difficulty that stems from mechanics rather than only relying on stats that don't scale evenly across all enemies.

I look forward to any changes this mode may see.

This post is extremely thoughtful and I appreciate it.

I am waiting to tackle more nodes before I give my feedback..

You are absolutely right about the tusk thumper, though.  Those things already took a while to kill.  I emptied all of my clips on my weapons without even seeing a gray part for its health bar.

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Posted (edited)

STOP diluting ur player base across different game modes that ppl only play them for the first 3 weeks then after that nobody cares anymore, we got spread so thin that kuva lich hunt is like a single player game already bcuz everyone is on the different planets. I signed up for online co-op not some single player rpg. If I want to play single player game I would go somewhere else not here. also we already got hard mode they're called sortie3/eso/arbi/kuva flood etc.

finally I assume you hired an actual group of professional to test/QA ur game in addition to the free labor PTS/focus group? 

solution: make it like kuva siphon where everyone is packed in the same planet

Edited by UNO168
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Actually thought I'd better try it just in case it was better than I was thinking earlier.....

Nope, I was literally bored after 4 maps on Earth.  It's a bit of a weird one, it wasn't really 'harder', it just took longer to kill the enemies and that isn't really fun to me...especially when you consider what we get in return.

Not even 1 drop of steel essence, and while I wasn't expecting loads from Earth, can't let us get any rewards that quickly.... seeing 1 would have been nice to show they do exist and I'm still expecting stupidly low drop rates if I do continue though.

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The mode does not feel rewarding right now. Haven't seen a single Steel Essence drop. Haven't noticed any mastery gains. Enemies are bullet sponges, moreso than normal, making the level increases meaningless. You promise greater rewards, but so far, I don't see that.

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Posted (edited)

The biggest piece of feedback I have after fully clearing Earth is the amount of credits gained per mission is the same as before and totally beneath the amount it should be considering the enemy level. While I appreciate the increased resource drop chance and mod drop chance, how about boosting credits as well. Sure I get that sorties have fancy modifiers but the amount you can get from those is significantly higher than The Steel Path at a fraction of the enemy level. 

I plan on rushing my way to Neptune and I will be severely disappointed if The Index doesn't offer more credits than regular version. 

Edited by BountyV
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, TheWestmark said:

take towards general gameplay could help to increase this difficulty beyond numbers. Here are some of my suggestions:

  • Forbid use of ciphers
  • Spy missions require all vaults be successfully hacked

 

I'm firmly against this, it would, at least in my opinion, make things a lot more tedious than they need to be and frankly, hacking isn't a measure of skill. I wouldn't be against limiting the number of ciphers available however, and making the player choose when it's best to use them, should things go awry. 

Edited by TheGuyver
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2 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Actually thought I'd better try it just in case it was better than I was thinking earlier.....

Nope, I was literally bored after 4 maps on Earth.  It's a bit of a weird one, it wasn't really 'harder', it just took longer to kill the enemies and that isn't really fun to me...especially when you consider what we get in return.

Not even 1 drop of steel essence, and while I wasn't expecting loads from Earth, can't let us get any rewards that quickly.... seeing 1 would have been nice to show they do exist and I'm still expecting stupidly low drop rates if I do continue though.

The word you are looking for is "tedious".

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5 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Actually thought I'd better try it just in case it was better than I was thinking earlier.....

Nope, I was literally bored after 4 maps on Earth.  It's a bit of a weird one, it wasn't really 'harder', it just took longer to kill the enemies and that isn't really fun to me...especially when you consider what we get in return.

Not even 1 drop of steel essence, and while I wasn't expecting loads from Earth, can't let us get any rewards that quickly.... seeing 1 would have been nice to show they do exist and I'm still expecting stupidly low drop rates if I do continue though.

 

3 minutes ago, BountyV said:

The biggest piece of feedback I have after fully clearing Earth is the amount of credits gained per mission is the same as before and totally beneath the amount it should be considering the enemy level. While I appreciate the increased resource drop chance and mod drop chance, how about boosting credits as well. Sure I get that sorties have fancy modifiers but the amount you can get from those is significantly higher than The Steel Path at a fraction of the enemy level. 

I plan on rushing my way to Neptune and I will be severely disappointed if The Index doesn't offer more credits than regular version. 

 

2 minutes ago, phoenix1992 said:

The word you are looking for is "tedious".

This mode isn't rewarding, it isn't fun, it isn't really "hard". It's just tedious. It just takes longer to kill enemies.

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Alright, so after the update hit me and my buddies gathered for the farming, however the Steel Essence is just way too hard to drop. It's near imposible to drop it.
We had 4 Resource Drop Chance Boosters, so every member had it.
Also we all used farming frames with their respective looting augment mods: Nekros, Hydroid, Khora

After finishing the Earth, we gained only 2 Steel Essences.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, phoenix1992 said:

Why is almost everyone talking about the rewards and not about the gameplay?

I mean, sure the rewards are important but they are the after effect, what about the core loop?

I am couple of missions in and it feels like "bring your Mesa day", since the things are just eating bullets and my time. 

Because players are so used to the basic, boring gameplay that the only thing they can look forward to is the reward. And let's be honest here: the only reason most people will be playing Steel Path is so that they can get the rewards. That's the only reason I'm playing it. I never asked for a hard mode. I'm not one of those players who needs to be one-shotted by enemies in order to not be bored. I don't expect DE to ever improve the core gameplay experience of Warframe, so that's not my focus here. I wasn't even going to play Steel Path until they revealed the Dax Operator armor. So, the only thing I care about is that they make Steel Essence drop more commonly from enemies, because the only thing I care about is buying the armor. And once that's done, I'm not playing Steel Path anymore. Because it's boring. It takes Warframe's mostly boring gameplay and removes one of the only good things about it: that we can shoot and strike enemies in one hit. The gunplay and melee gameplay is so unsatisfying dull that without being able to blow through enemies easily, the game becomes even more boring. And that's what Steel Path is, imo.

Edited by OniDax
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I just read the patch notes and i have to say, i think the point of WHY the community is so pissed at the Xoris nerf is being missed 100%

I, like most people who really care about their builds, already knew that the xoris did NOT affect top damage on any of the frames listed.   We've known for ages how to make builds that do exactly the same thing.  HOWEVER, the problem has to do with the approach DE took towards the nerf.

The xoris does not change the top damage for ANY of the warframes that they are claiming that it does.  This is highly inaccurate and to make the claim that the nerf is being made for damage reasons basically means one of only 2 things:

1)  De does not actually understand the interactions between their own weapons and this is the result of gross incompetence.   They somehow believe that these BIG NUMBERS are the result of the Xoris, and not stat sticks as a whole.   The Xoris only affects the QUALITY OF LIFE of these warframes by doing only one thing:  extending the timer of the combo meter to infinity.  That's it.   Doesn't change the damage, only changes how long you can do this.  As many people have pointed out already, this is already accomplished by using naramon and maybe 1 or 2 time extension mods on your stat stick.

2)  DE flat out lied about the reason.   They knew that the xoris was really a quality of life issue, and decided to lie to the community about it being about damage.

So here we are, stuck between 2 very unhappy places...............   Gross incompetence, or Lying.  

The issue is that people want accountability for the claims.  I also want to make it clear that as developers, DE has the right to do WHATEVER they want with their game.... I have no problem with that, in fact i have NO problem with the nerf quite honestly.  My issue here is the approach to the nerf.   By using language which is stunningly inaccurate, it misleads most people into thinking this is being done for an unrelated reason.

Be up front with the change.  If you wanted it changed because too many people were switching to it (which honestly would probably die down after a month or so once people realize OTHER weapons still have higher top damage for khora/baruuk/etc)..... then say that.  If you wanted to change the Xoris because it doesn't fit the theme of the game, that's fine.  If you wanted to change it because it simply was not intended and this is an interaction you'd like to remove, THAT IS FINE.... But to use the misinformation about "damage" is just absurd.

I think at this point considering how DE keeps doubling down on this damage issue, i really feel like they don't understand how stat sticks work at all...........   That's a whole other issue.  But as for *THIS* issue, i feel an apology about WHY the nerf is being made is warranted.... And honestly, DE, you need no more reason than "We just felt it didn't match with the intentions of the weapon, and so we are making a change."  This is your game at the end of the day and you can design it any way you want.

But please, be honest about your changes and WHY you're doing it.  This kind of unwarranted and deceptive wording is a slap in the face to your playerbase.   It assumes that we don't know how your game works and that we don't know how to mod things on our own.  I personally would appreciate a retraction of WHY this is being nerfed and fix it with a better reason....................  Cause right now you're either a LIAR or GROSSLY INCOMPETENT.    Neither one is a good look.

I also agree with the community that Umbral forma should be added to the vendor.  They're hardly game breaking and at this point they're a joke since a lot of people just don't use them rather than bother waiting for one.

-Djeneh

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I wasn't able to post this on the test cluster forums due to real life, but a lot has changed since. Just buffing the armor, health and shields doesn't make anything "hard". It feels like a lazy approach. I know that I personally won't participate in the content once I've cleared all of the planets and obtained the armor. Maybe I'm just in the silent majority here, but I feel like there's a lot more than can and most likely will be done.

All this does is reinforce the meta and make more brain dead gameplay with the most effective cheese. It's not fun or engaging for me because I know my builds so well that I have every confidence that I won't have any issues clearing the star chart again.  

That being said, a few things I would like from hard mode are; 

1. New units designed specifically for hard mode (totally not a shameless plug for this.)
1a. New emchanics on existing enemies to make them feel threatening and have them work together to you down. 

2. Enemy tactics, like shield lancers creating a phalanx to shield a heavy gunner. 

3. New mission modifiers akin to nightmare mode. 
3a. The ability to opt in for more modifiers.
3b. Wear & Tear: The longer you stay in the mission, the more your gear wears down and has its effectiveness reduced by x%.
3c. Sabotage: Your gear items will sometimes backfire on you. Energy pads drain energy, etc. 
3d. Impenetrable: The Steel Path has not only hardened the resolve, but the armor of enemies. Punch through does not affect them. 
3e. Ablative Plating: The enemy are equipped with ancient, but effective technology, allowing them to negate several melee attacks and knock the tenno down upon impact. 
I can sit here all day and come up with these.

4. Changes to existing mission structures. 
4a. Rescue targets, after acquiring a secondary, activate a side objective. Payback on their captors, etc.
4b. The capture targets being defended by a unit of enemies who work together to prevent capture. 
4c. Having to rescue our "lone tenno operative" in a survival mission where they spawn in the level and you have to rescue them.

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2 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

First impressions are really bad.

Bullet sponges that can't land a hit and if they do it is not a strong one. The rewards seem mediocre at best. I am currently recording all missions and I am being more annoyed than anything else.

Granted I've only done now 2 of these missions (first two exterms on earth) but so far I disagree. Yeah there are some issues, but so far I find it's actually fun and interesting to do. It brings back the struggle of the first time you played warframe, but now you can understand what to do while being challenged. 

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50 minutes ago, Genitive said:

First few missions were fine, although guns feel underpowered if not used with damage buffing abilities.

Interception feels really bad solo. Maybe it's just me, but it is extremely difficult to take over data capture progress due to how many enemies are on the map at any given moment.

With full squad it is fine, but with one player interception becomes extremely frustrating.

I would like to add a second voice to both of the above points.

First mission, I was running Valkyr, and it was pretty hard. Second mission, I was running my weapon-focused Saryn (I don't spread spores to nuke the map; I use Radiation focused weapons with Venom Dose so I get big damage bonuses vs all armor types), and it was much easier. I feel like this really is throwing us back to the "corrosive or bust" meta.

And I failed my first attempt at Interception. At one point, I had B node, but couldn't even leave it because it was a nonstop massive stream of enemies into that zone. Eventually, I left it hoping to quick cap another zone and string the enemies out so they couldn't just force zones with overwhelming odds. Who the heck is their commander in this mission, anyway? Zap Brannigan, hoping to hit the killbots' kill limit?

3 hours ago, RevanZim said:

I believe Umbra Forma should be a Steel Path reward.

Stance Forma can stay, sure, but I think only Umbra Forma feels rewarding and appropriate for playing the "hardest" missions in the game. I don't care how high the cost has to be, just add another consistent way of getting it other than Nightwave please. This seems the most appropriate place for me.

This this this. So much this. We NEED a way to farm for Umbra Forma besides once every 6 months in Nightwave. PLEASE.

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Posted (edited)

Hold up...

It is operator armor Blueprints?

And they cost between 15 and 25 each?

And the relic pack costs 15!?
UhzMPWk.png

You lost you fudging mind DE. 

Edited by phoenix1992
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Posted (edited)

Return health/armor to normal levels and up damage significantly. 

 

Improve rewards.

 

Game mode is pointless guys.

 

Edit: you're also breaking the player base up even more.  I don't know how this is the best you can come up with after 7 years of working on this game.

Edited by Lanieu
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I will probably complete most of it solo with the exclusion of the odd Interception or Defence missions. Glad to have something else besides Sorties I can play around with in Warframe :). 

One thing I'd love DE to possibly consider is a synergistic way of complimenting warframe and operator abilities. Operator makes everything a bit too easy, but tying operator energy regen to something the warframe does - not killing enemies - would be awesome. 

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