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The Steel Path: Feedback Megathread!


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I don't think The "Steel" Path is going to live up to it's name without fiercely corralling the rate at which we regenerate health/energy/ammo/void energy.

 

Long as some players have access to those, they are going to be both bored, and leaving behind everyone who doesn't have access to a bottomless well.

 

The cooldown on Gear pizzas is a good start, but if you don't address all sources of near endless supplies it's in vain. If after reining in the collective healing/energy/ammo economy (I'm including Warframe powers in this) things are too hard, you can relax the enemy durability a bit.

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Dont hear those forum warriors and cry babies DE, steel path is a huge step in the right way.

 

Now, vets will use all their arsenal far from the weaklings and "nerf this" noobs, i can see a future with less nerfs with this new star chart mode, this alone is enough for me.

 

I was wondering if we can have sorties, nightmares and invasions for steel path only, and maybe kuva liches for steel path only too. (Completing there will end said modes in both star charts).

 

With steel path may DE revert that (sorry to say this) dull update of crap dispo in new guns rivens (0.5 on release) and back they to neutral dispo (old 1.0 dispo on release)? 0.5 dispo rivens are useless for any build and kill any hype of vets for new weapons.

 

About rewards, can ur guys increase kuva rewards to be a little over of that we farm in kuva disruption? kuva disruption give ~7k kuva each 30 mins, what about ~9k kuva (or more) each 30 mins in steel path? And im sure DE will increase the item reward pool in the future too...

 

Thanks for this update DE. @[DE]Adam @[DE]Megan @[DE]Rebecca @[DE]Bear

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Pastryfighter said:

Absolutely terrible.

DE has been trying to get players to use other weapons for a long while now and they've not just shot themselves in the foot with this update, but both feet and legs. If you want to get Steel Path missions done with any decent speed then you're forced into using the boring meta weapons that you see time and time again.

Totally agreed on the diversity debate. This unintended consequence will make the nightmare of balance an even bigger nightmare for normal mode. As soon as it starts to impact things like riven sales (the real crux of the diversity debate) this will get messy. I reckon the level saltiness in the  "OP vs NERFS" threads are soon to become +100. 

On the "Easy" argument, I still think the point of the game has never been about risk reward scenarios. And some of the modes are still challenging in the sense that it does force you to think about what is best for that mission (leading to the problem I described above). I think the biggest problem for this mode is DE is not sure exactly who the target audience is; and a one size fits all approach is very difficult to create for "challenging" content. 

 

EDIT:

As I stated previously, If anyone wants a challenge, just go do the tridolons; they're three times as tedious in TSP.  

 

Edited by -Sandman
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17 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

First impressions are really bad.

Bullet sponges that can't land a hit and if they do it is not a strong one. The rewards seem mediocre at best. I am currently recording all missions and I am being more annoyed than anything else.

same

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Tedium is not Challenge.

Gear checks are not Challenge.

Such a wasted opportunity to make the content more interesting and challenging with the tools you already have in terms of enemy types and abilities, nightmare modifiers, sortie modifiers, etc.

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Copy pasting from my older suggestion thread. It seems appropriate here.

I have some suggestions to it that can, well, keep the player engaged onto it.

Some of the suggestions were mostly inspired by the blitz eximus units.

  • Increased attack range
  • Increased grenade throwing range, and throws are more horizontal.
  • Enemies will blind fire on an invisible player, should the invisible player melee attack another enemy that's in line of sight.
  • Enemies will be able to fire as they run.
  • Enemy spawn rate is twice fold Already somewhat implemented, but perhaps can we up the spawns in non-endless missions as well?
  • Enemies will attempt to destroy life support capsules in survival, and won't rush to the players. Rather, they will rush to the life support capsules. (Pablo's idea)
  • Hostage in rescue missions will not teleport, but will run faster depending on the number of players near them. (4 players will increase the movement speed by 4x)
  • Spy missions has a "no alarms" requirement.
  • In defense, there is no downtime, Defense objective will be mobile as well, and will move to different tilesets. This means defense missions will no longer take place in a single, fixed tileset.
  • Enemies will have increased priority with 100% accuracy on stationary players, unless if another player is significantly closer.
  • Increased enemy movement speed by 1.5x.
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Please put Umbral Forma as a reward, or a crafted forma/aura forma.

Stance Forma is the most useless forma in the game right now.

Also, please allow hard mode apply to nighmare and fissure missions, with their drops also affected by the innate booster. (including void traces.)

Also, the affinity gain is bugged. There is no affinity increase due to higher level enemies, even though DE Rebecca has stated that it should.

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I have to admit, I'm seriously surprised that sponginess was the only idea they had to make regular starchart missions more challenging.

Turns out, only meta builds wreck, diversity is down the drain.

While we actually have interesting mechanics already in the game, namely nightmare modifiers, sortie modifiers, arbitration modifiers...

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Posted (edited)

Not to say bad things over the anticipated "hard mode", but we have problems:

No real reward. Let me be honest here, as many would agree, 10k kuva, relic pack and stance forma, apart from exclusive cosmetics, is not enough and feels like just bones thrown to hungry dogs, like "here's the stuff, eat it!"
While I can understand the exclusivity of Stance Forma (who cares?) source, for now, the asking price and the remaining items from shop is just trolling of us, players.

Content? Yes, and no. Yes - because I invested some hours in it, just to unlock junctions and get to the Void Defense, so I could call up some friends/clanmates for 2014 year experience but without an hour waiting until wave 60. No - because so far (Uranus/Neptune/Void) everything is soloable, hardly a challenge, and it's just replaying old star chart, just takes longer.

Drop? More like "Nope" And here's the juicy part, while eximus are just bigger bullet sponge in hard mode, I have seen them, and I got Oberon set out of them, but so far I have not seen a single Steel Essence. It would not surprise me if the drop chance is abysmally low or someone just forgot to put it in. And yet, where is the reason to play it, if not in the reward? Make it rain, so players who actually can do play it, will play it, and not choose to farm 10k Kuva in 30 minutes (without "hard mode") with resource booster from sortie or daily login reward.

Why would I play it? I kept my thoughts to myself, mostly, but give me 8% chance for Umbra Forma on endless mission, 5% chance on non-endless (except for Capture) and 3% chance on Capture, and I will definitely play it. Don't want to give this super shiny reward as uncontrollably to hardcore players? Come up with really worthy rewards then.
Fillers like 10k Kuva will remain just the same fillers as 95% of your existing Starchart (apart from fissures) and 80-90% of the entirity of your content. That is my estimation, you have your numbers, pull them up, see how many players do what and what % it is of total, make a chart/pie and make conclusions.

Edited by HarissonLA
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I love the idea of Hard Mode, and the execution (besides a few bugs with selecting missions while in a squad) is great so far, but the rewards for completing the entire star chart on hard mode should be greater than cosmetics and some kuva. The individual mission rewards are still base-tier level rewards, they should be increased by 10x to account for the 10x difficulty (10x the credit cache amount, 10x the resources from resource caches, etc.)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ShichiseitenYasha said:

20 dollars to... Do the same thing you've always done without having to play an hour and a half to get to the enemy level desired and booster rewards that do not excuse the abysmal drop rates of most rare mods when they're under 1%, or in even more extreme cases under 0.05%, on an enemy that spawns rarely? 

20 dollars to skip slightly ahead in time for no rewards not gotten better anywhere else, and no change to the more boring enemies and bosses in the game that have little interaction.

Wow. 

First of all, you're taking what I said out of context and adding your own context - which is fine. I just don't want anyone to read what you just said and misunderstand what I'm saying.

Second, "an hour and a half" of my time is worth more than $20. I'm willing to spend money to get rid of a barrier between me and having fun. That's why I was so vocal about DE Sheldon removing the annoying 8 seconds of wasted time when switching pets.

Third, I agree with you that the rewards for the Steel Path are currently not on the mark, but I also think it's an important balancing act because if the rewards are too good, casual players are going to feel compelled to play the Steel Path and then they will probably complain that the Steel Path is too hard. Since DE has a habit of caving in to negative feedback, I wouldn't be surprised if they nerfed the enemy HP scaling and made it even easier than it currently is, which is to say they might cave in to the whiney casuals that want everything handed to them on a silver platter (again).

Fourth, the steel path in it's current form is not worth $20 in my opinion. But I wouldn't look at the money as simply a purchase for what it is currently, I would look at it as an investment into further development of the Steel Path and a clear sign/indicator to DE that focusing development time on things like this is going to give them a return on their own investment.

I posed the question: Is DE making enough money to spend more time working on and improving the Steel Path? (let's just place to the side the question of whether or not they are effectively managing their own finances).

With that in mind, I would like a way to vote with my wallet on the things DE works on. I can spend money on things like platinum purchases or Prime Access to support DE as a whole company, but how do I indicate with my money that I specifically want them to

A) Do another balance pass on Status Effects (and make bosses vulnerable to status effects)

B) Continue putting development time into Hard Mode

C) Expand upon and improve Kuva Liches

In the mean time, in the past 2 months I've spent $150 on Destiny 2 and 0$ on Warframe. Why? Because I feel no compelling reason to spend my money on Warframe - unless it's simply to support them as a company. On the one hand, I want to see Warframe succeed, on the other hand, they seem to be willing to work for free. Which is great because DE is very generous with their time and inclusive to many players, but part of the problem in doing that is that some of their projects don't reach their full potential, and they are inundated with feedback - and I would argue that not all feedback is created equal.

Edited by Flying_Scorpion
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13 hours ago, phoenix1992 said:

They dropped the concept and put in only "hard" mode due to player fragmentation

Well then.

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Posted (edited)

MR 25, Completed 6 planets so far (Earth, Lua, Venus, Mercury, Mars and Phobos). Either public or solo. My opinion so far:

- Game mode: revisiting the starchart brings good memories, so I'm enjoying it. I'm going through it fully completing each planet that becomes unlocked instead of rushing to the end first because I'm testing weapons for this content.

- Archwing missions are way too easy, they don't even feel buffed at all, and my archgun wasn't even lv30 yet with no forma. They should have +100 lvs like the other missions. Only the rush Kepler(Phobos) objectives were too tanky, so if the level increases, they need to be weakened.

- Eximus Steel Essence/Sliver Drop: Completing 6 planets and having 5 syndicate squads spawn, I've only dropped a Steel Essence once, and 1 Riven Sliver. The drop rate should be increased, or create new ways to get the Essences.

- Vay Hek: The fight was a pain in sorties, now with increased defense I had to leave the first time because the 2 people in the squad together couldn't damage him enough between the boring invulnerability phases for 10 minutes. This isn't a steel path problem, but a game design problem. Solution: increase vulnerability time, or make the invulnerability phase become a "damage-reduction phase", where bosses only take 10% of the original damage.

- Mission rewards, resource caches and spy vaults (not enemy drops): the rewards in the regular starchart were already low; now with steel path they feel even more worthless. Solutions: make them x2 or x3 the value (at least), add steel essence to them, remove common and uncommon mods from the table (leaving only rare mods), add vaulted relics, make all relics dropped be Radiant like ESO.

- Mission variants don't have a steel path version (Invasions, Nightmare, Syndicates, Kuva Siphon/Flood, Fissures, Sorties). Solution: make steel path variants where it rewards the mod + a vaulted relic for nightmare, a 4th mission for invasions where you get an extra 3 detonite/fieldron/mutagen, double kuva earned from siphons and floods, double the standing for syndicates, 3x void traces earned in fissures, and a 4th mission for sorties where you get a guaranteed riven.

- Overall feel of the missions: enemies being bullet sponges don't really make that much of a difference in the feel. Consider adding a random Disruption conduit modifier at the start of every match (with exception of enemy extra defenses, as the mode already has it. Substitute electrified conduit for electrified terminals/excavators so you can't stay inside a frost bubble for the whole mobile defenses). Increase enemy speed, increase spawns, increase eximus rates.

- Steel Shop: Stance forma is the worst kind of forma, even below the standard forma. Add Aura Forma, Orokin Catalyst BP, Orokin Reactor BP, Arcanes, Rivens, change the relic pack to a Vaulted Relic Pack. Possibility: add a daily rotation of the stocks, each day with a different forma, a different specific vaulted relic, a different common or uncommon Arcane, a different rare or legendary Arcane, a random special weapon part variant (wraith, vandal), a random stance mod, a random rare mod, a random cosmetic

- Bosses: Aside from the Vay Hek as said above, Jackal, Lech Kril Vor were OK (Sargeant was still a 1-hit-kill), but the rewards were trash: getting a regular warframe part at this stage of the game is the same as nothing because you have its prime variant already. Solution: Make them drop things relevant to players who already got most out of the regular starchart: Universal Medallions, Steel Essences, Riven Slivers, Arcanes (different arcane pool for each boss).

- Factions: Grineer are way tankier than Corpus and Infested due to the bad armor scaling. Suggestion: reduce the armor scaling from 250% to 150% and bump the health to 400% and shields to 300%, so the gap reduces a bit.

- Granuum Treasurer: it has too much shield in this mode. Suggestion: reduce base shields.

- Teammates (public): 8 out of 10 squads had a Khora, who dealt top damage, protected the objective and didn't die. Guess the Xoris nerf didn't affect them a single bit.

- Stalker/Zanuka: I've fought both, and they feel OK in damage/resistance.

- Open World: The 6th mission for PoE I completed with a public squad and it was fine, except that the last 2 missions were the same: scort the drone. Fortuna's 6th bounty I soloed with no problems.

Edited by Daiwulf
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BUGS IN LOADER:

caught by surprise at the loader, only by the font itself. I didn't know a new content was coming.

then tried to see "what's new" section to find more problems; the UI does not scale the content to fit inside. just like you have a content of 800x800 content but got only 600x600 windows to use, and you just forgot to scale the content down to window, only a part is shown.

then tried to restart the loader, it asked to be sure since there is an update going on, which is not shown on UI because of the scaling. then hang to freeze.

now I am afraid when that non visible update progress reaches to an end, there wont be a visible play button to press.

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I will leave my opinion of what I have seen so far. I think the conventional missions were interesting! But applying that to open worlds has been a bit of an exaggeration. I think they should make some adjustments or not apply this difficulty in the open worlds. In the open world I noticed that the enemies have a lot of life, armor ... and I didn't select the steel path mode and I noticed a very exaggerated difficulty! Why did DE do this? Why not leave open worlds untouched? I hope you rethink what you did! If it was to please older players will not be able to attract new players ... even older players did not like what they saw in the open worlds ... why increase the difficulty of killing in normal mode? I honestly don't understand ...

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Posted (edited)

From playing 11 missions enemies seem to have to much heath and deal too little damage. Maybe remove armour buff but add a damage buff for the enemies. Killing bullet sponges that deal little damage isn't fun.

The rewards seem non-existent, double the mastery from nodes and junctions and award 2000 mastery when you complete every node on a planet. That and add something useful in the steel path shop.

Other things that could work are, enemies have resistance to body shots and ability damage, no restores, less revives, more enemies but with slightly less hp.

As I play through the planets I keep getting bad memories of Kuva Liches and not having fun because everything is covered in red.

 

 

 

Edited by DarkLight748
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Please make the steel essence drop with the arcanes during an eidolon hunt. If captured make the lure drop the essence along with the arcanes. In a 6x3 I don't think it would be time efficient to wait for the eidolon's decomposing corpse to drop the steel essence.

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1 minute ago, BlueNyah said:

Please make the steel essence drop with the arcanes during an eidolon hunt. If captured make the lure drop the essence along with the arcanes. In a 6x3 I don't think it would be time efficient to wait for the eidolon's decomposing corpse to drop the steel essence.

hmm i think eidolons now its more dead than before steel....

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Revert the xoris changes or 

Put some effort in to making pseudo-exalted weapons mod-able and allow all exalted melee weapons to use acolyte melee mods

Prior to melee 2.999 there was an argument to be made for why exalted weapons couldn't use acolyte mods but now it makes no sense. Why should a frame's ultimate ability provide less value than any regular melee weapon?

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Rewards are pretty sad.

1500 credits for finishing a level 100+ mission with extra spongyness modifier? Seriously? Credits are one of the very few "evergreen" rewards and Steel Path awards none of it.
Resource boost is nice but everyone who reached Steel Path doesn't need Starchart resources anymore.
Same with mods booster.
For affinity there are dedicated affinity farming spots already. And you'd need at least one good weapon on Steelchart and this weapon would leech your affinity if you bring anything for leveling.
Operator cosmetics are trash because operator cosmetics.
Emotes are trash because emotes.
Planets decorations are fine I guess.
Kuva is alright but you can get it everywhere else at better rates.
Riven slivers are alright.
Stance forma would've been fine if it had same crafting requirements as regular forma. It's more efficient to just polarize the weapon and use "wrong" stance.

Merge Steel Path and Conclave reward stores, make them both award Teshin standing, replace Steelchart tokens with higher tier universal medallions, revert the infamous nerf of universal medallions made for one crybaby on twitter, add Steelchart alerts (like syndicate dailies), fix building requirements for stance forma, add some nitain and potatoes to the shop, increase credit rewards, add an Umbra Forma for finishing Steelchart.
 

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7 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

First of all, you're taking what I said out of context and adding your own context - which is fine. I just don't want anyone to read what you just said and misunderstand what I'm saying.

And this is why we quote things, because that can take you to the original post. If someone assumes what the rest of the post was saying, their opinion didn't matter anyway. 

Regardless, the question of their revenue makes great assumption on how much effort was or should have been put into creating this. To make an already bloated thread shorter: This update shouldn't be priced twice as high as some of the best DLCs I own in my library, or even the same as many of them. However, even though you believe: 

26 minutes ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

Fourth, the steel path in it's current form is not worth $20 in my opinion. But I wouldn't look at the money as simply a purchase for what it is currently, I would look at it as an investment into further development of the Steel Path and a clear sign/indicator to DE that focusing development time on things like this is going to give them a return on their own investment.

and   

10 hours ago, Flying_Scorpion said:

By charging for the Steel Path, it would give people like me a very clear avenue to send you money to specifically support this particular area of Warframe.

The way you delivered the statement yells to the company that the way things are now, and the way they were delivered now was perfect, and more of the exact same should come out, not something better. Even though they've made several steps back with the way they've released this alone. Describing it as a step forward harms the idea that we're getting to where we should be. 

Also, the video doesn't do much to validate your opinion when it starts on the second planet, being shot by only Flux Crewman and  basic enemies then shows a channel doing a Nightfall, solo, which is maximum tier content at maximum power in a game with two less people than the game is designed around, fighting a miniboss. That's the equivalent of me fighting a level 500 Conculyst and then showing off me killing basic cabal in Leviathan to say Destiny 2 is an easier game, it's not even close. 

Similar to how you think people would misunderstand you point without knowing the original context from my post, anyone who thinks that the clip shown is an accurate portrayal of power in the equivalent tiers in the game... Their opinion doesn't matter. 

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