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The Steel Path: Update 28.1.0


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lord_Dckrod said:

Oh, okay, so we're relying on a bug to justify xoris as "nowhere near" way better.  I'm not sure where you are getting 120 seconds.  It's only 20 seconds per level.

http://prntscr.com/ten3pz

I don't think you're quite following what he's explaining, I'll try to make it clearer.
Venka Prime, with this build (without a riven, longer with a riven) gets you a 33 second combo duration (longer if relentless combination procs, but that's your riven slot if you have one.)
At 240 Combo you're at a 13x multiplier, once you stop hitting things with this weapon, you get 13x for 33 seconds.
When your combo decays with Naramon after that 33 seconds, you lose 5 combo, putting you at 235 combo, putting you at 12x, 33 seconds later it decays to 230, you stay at 12x, 33 seconds later to 225, still at 12x, 33 seconds later to 220, still at 12x, 33 seconds later we go down to 215 which is 11x.
So from the start we were at 13x for around 33 seconds depending on procs, then we stayed at the 12x multiplier for a total of 132 seconds with this rivenless build.

A difference, for Baruuk for example, his restraint meter makes it to where you can only realistically stay in serene storm 50% of the time or so, yes sometimes you just pop out, hit a guy and pop back in (annoying enough but whatever), but also sometimes you sometimes are stuck without serene storm and need to use your other weapons while rebuilding restraint, with a setup like this (which is great for serene storm) your melee is complete trash in terms of normal damage. With the Xoris, okay, maybe it wasn't great but at least it was somewhat usable, while still providing the same effect to Baruuk's Serene storm, though I suppose you can still just shoot things in the face instead.

Edited by Sylonus
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7 hours ago, Yulfan said:

I'll continue Nightwave, but through tears and blood because I always hated the concept of timed content that you can completely miss when you can't play for some time (because you know, real life stuff …). Do you remember that the reason you reworked the login rewards system was to get rid of this requirement to log in every day so you don't miss anything ? Because Nightwaves are basically the same thing, but on a weekly basis …

Well, I don't like time-gated stuff either, but I'd say NW isn't that bad.
* You can miss on weekly actions and do them the next week. This doesn't include daily actions, but they provide miniscule amount of NW standing anyway.
* You can miss at least 40%~50% of weekly standing and still get everything unique to current NW episode.
* You can pick up the leftovers in the credit store during the intermission.

So, I'd say NW is quite generous. It's still time-gated and that's bad, but you don't have to play it on a daily basis and you can skip a few weeks without any consequences at all.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Lord_Dckrod said:

Oh, okay, so we're relying on a bug to justify xoris as "nowhere near" way better.

Xoris is affected by this bug in a same way. Without this bug, any stat stick, xoris included, wouldn't affect exalted melee weapons (like exalted blade, desert wind, etc.) at all.

Edited by GREF_TM
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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I get it.  I had edited my post.  I can see how Xoris isn't that much of an upgrade on that setup.  So I understand the frustration there.  Well i think there should still be a set bonus, thats fun.  I'm not sure about your exalted scaling off your normal melees combo counter, esp if they reset on switch - that seems more of a bug to me.  If they took the set bonus away, then they'd have to do the same for the vig mods and then they'd be mostly useless except for like those 2 you could occasionally fit in builds.

Edited by Lord_Dckrod
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Lord_Dckrod said:

Yeah, I get it.  I had edited my post.  I can see how Xoris isn't that much of an upgrade on that setup.  So I understand the frustration there.

To be precise majority of the frustration isn't even from Xoris "nerf", but from the reason DE nerfed it. It looks like they have no idea how their own game works and barely ever play it. The whole reason they went and broke Xoris is that it suddenly got popular due to a few youtubers calling it OP without doing any investigations whatsoever. How asinine is that? The exact way they nerfed it is just a cherry on top.

Edited by lainverse
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hace 8 horas, Yulfan dijo:

This update in a nutshell :

FkGZYZm.jpg

I'll never use the Xoris ever again.

I'll never play the Steel Path ever again.

I'll continue Nightwave, but through tears and blood because I always hated the concept of timed content that you can completely miss when you can't play for some time (because you know, real life stuff …). Do you remember that the reason you reworked the login rewards system was to get rid of this requirement to log in every day so you don't miss anything ? Because Nightwaves are basically the same thing, but on a weekly basis …

The first nightwave was worst. Now you can recover some old weekly mission when you complete 5 or 6 of the actual week; but I think you should recover more at the same time when someone has a free week to be able to complete more missions.

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hace 7 horas, NarwhalStorm dijo:

Kind of a crazy idea, but some things I'd like and I think would be appropriate items to spend Steel Essence on would be the following:
1) Orokin Reactor & Catalyst Distillers
2) Forma Distillers (works on ANY Forma type)
3) Exilus Distillers (works on both Exilus types)
4) Lens Distillers

To be balanced they'd need to require expensive crafting ingredients and probably be single-use blueprints, but they'd allow you to remove one of those items from a Weapon/Frame/Archwing/Companion.  Yes, it'd reduce sales of Plat for people like me who wait for a discount and buy a Reactor/Catalyst whenever they get a weapon they intend to keep, but it would also take away a lot of grind and frustration.  Have a weapon/frame you used a Catalyst/Reactor on that just got a Prime?  Slap an Orokin Catalyst/Reactor Distiller on it, then sell it and reuse it on the Prime version when you get it!  Want to be able to switch out a Focus Lens without losing the one you had on?  Lens Distiller, baby!

In formas, lens and exilus, I agree with you; but not reactor and catalyst. You can get a lot of reactors and catalyst while you play actively or buying in the market (platinum). I think those 2 are in a balance way between playing or buying.

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Posted (edited)

Wow you really brought that Xoris nerf... 

Damn DE you really dont play your own game do you?

You should hire Brozime to make Warframe great again.

 

edit: after testing it, i have to congratulate DE

for the worst update 2020.

 

ps. a little tip: BULLET SPONGES ARE NOT MORE DIFFICULT, just more grindy to defeat.

but it was easier to make the enemies tougher than reworking the horrible AI or doing other things to make the game more challenging.

Edited by RAZORLIGHT
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Posted (edited)
Il y a 5 heures, ZukeZima a dit :

so you're saying "you guys are minorities, you should shut up, your opinions are irrelevant", is that what you mean ???

That's how it worked, how it works, and how it'll work

"The Needs of the Many Outweigh The Needs of the Few"

Xoris nerf was unnecessary, but that's another confirmation of how they just play the game when they're on stream

Edited by Maryph
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Posted (edited)

Xoris gate has emphasized the need for "Exalted Weapons 2.0". Naturally, the solution implemented does nothing to address the problem. Khora's whipclaw damage still scales, it's just less convenient to maintain that combo / scaling.

 

I'm an Excalibur main.

 

Problems with Exalted Weapons:

- Inconsistency. Some Exalted Weapons are moddable, some are not. Some can "stat stick" piggy back off your melee weapon mods and benefit from combo (and augments.. and Rivens...) scaling their damage significantly, and some don't. Compare the damage potential of Khora's 1, Hildryn's 1, then compare them to Excal's 4, Wukong's 4... it's kinda embarassing how weak they are by comparison despite being "Ultimates".

- Vastly inconsistent damage output based on some Exalted weapons scaling with combo, and some gaining no real benefit from combo

- Vastly inconsistent methods of generating combo; whipclaw generates combo at range, Excal's EB only generates combo on direct sword hits. Even if combo on EB was useful, you can't generate it.

- Vastly inconsistent "heavy attack" or scaling damage benefits from combo... Combo on Exalted Blade is impossible to generate and is basically useless anyway because the heavy attack is bad and heavy slam has no real AoE potential.

- Slam attacks using exalted weapons are weak, not the AoE destruction that they should be. Hildryn's 1 is far stronger and requires no combo, positioning or proximity compared to using a heavy slam with exalted blade. Why does Balefire charger, or the Kuva Bramma one shot anything within 8 meters, yet I need a direct hit with a heavy slam to kill 1 level 50 grineer chump? The surrounding Grineer suirvive the slam, even at very close range.

- Band aid mods; like Chromatic Blade which should really just be baseline at this point.

- Acolyte mods are restricted from some Exalted weapons, other Exalted weapons can use them via stat sticks. This approach should be consistent.

- Exalted Weapon stats need a revisit as they are lagging behind a lot of melee weapons

- Exalted Weapon stances give 0 increase to mod capacity. Exalted weapons therefore require more forma as their stances do not give any +capacity, making builds more restrictive and require higher investment

- RIvens work on "some" Exalted Weapons but not others.

 

Hildryn's 1 can easily deal 100k damage in an 8 meter radius (at range). Excal's EB heavy Slam can kill a Grineer chump but only on a direct hit. Khora's whipclaw generates combo, scales off combo, and has higher damage potential than EB / Wukong 4...

A proper pass on the Exalted Weapons feels necessary at this point.

- Make all Exalted Weapons Moddable, or make all Exalted Weapons benefit from "Stat stickery".

- Do a balance pass on Exalted Weapon stats, the minor tweaks as a result of Status 2.0 doesn't seem enough.

- Make combo generation and scaling consistent and relevant for all Exalted weapons, making sure that players have a reason to use their Exalted weapon over their regular melee weapon. Combo is clearly very important for whip claw. Yet makes no difference at all to Exalted Blade.

- Make combo dumps / heavy melee / heavy slams consistent and a viable AoE damage method for all Exalted Weapons

- Make all mods available on all Exalted Weapons, or consistently restrict their use across all Exalted Weapons.

- Make Exalted Weapon stances add +capacity to give better build flexibility

- Remove Rivens working with Exalted Weapons, or allow all Exalted Weapons to benefit from Rivens.

 

Edited by aNNomaNd3r
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The xoris didn't buff damage.

The xoris just made it so it was convinient and you didn't need a riven for your melee statstick.

Welp now lets spend that 2k plat for the statstick riven.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Popeks said:

The xoris didn't buff damage.

The xoris just made it so it was convinient and you didn't need a riven for your melee statstick.

Welp now lets spend that 2k plat for the statstick riven.

Technically it didn't made rivens any less relevant. Nor you ever needed one to do a decent damage.

Sticks with rivens outmatched Xoris easily simply because you couldn't stick a decent riven on Xoris and considering its popularity it would never get to dispo 3 or higher. The only thing it really brought is convenience of not bothering to keep combo up. Frames which benefited from mods on a stat stick dealt more damage with Neramon + dispo 5 stick with a rivens and frames which care about combo and crit chance bonus from a set still can use Venka Prime with combo duration build for a price of little less convenience and inability to use reasonably strong melee weapon when their exalted weapon is unavailable for some reason. I mean, Venka Prime combo duration build isn't made to deal damage on its own after all while Xoris could keep infinite combo and still be a decent melee weapon.

Edited by lainverse
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17 hours ago, Zygmyr said:

1. Add custom crosshairs.

I support this! But it should be extended to cover custom scopes as well, both on snipers and on (some) scope-capable primaries (semi-auto & burst only).

Two new "scopes" mod sets (based on the current "zoom mods") for the Exilus slot would fit perfectly (one for snipers, one for "others"), as long as their mod space requirements are low enough to not kill the idea outright. Heck, since they would be for semi-auto/burst only they might even include a small crit chance increase (when shooting zoomed in), linked to a corresponding decrease in fire rate, mag size and/or reload speed. That would be something "really exilus", changing a weapon to be a bit more hard-hitting when aiming through a scope.

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To those arguing about Xoris, let's review the update note for just a second here.  The frames cited are:

Warframe Abilities / Exalted Warframe weapons affected by this are:

  • Ash Bladestorm
  • Atlas Landslide
  • Baruuk Serene Storm
  • Excalibur Exalted Blade
  • Gara Shattered Lash
  • Khora Whipclaw
  • Valkyr Talons
  • Wukong Iron Staff

The full breakdown can be read here.

 

OK.  Does anyone else see the pattern here?  There's only two that are odd, and that's Excalibur and Wukong.  Literally every one of the other frames has a weapon, but no customization for that weapon.  They have thus been setup to inherit mods from the equipped melee weapons.  That's a great time saver and all....but it's incredibly foolish when you're trying to control weapons and cannot setup a consistent pool.  Specifically, you have weapons with unique properties and rivens of varying quality.

 

Let's then discuss what is going on.  If you equip mods that scale off of your combo counter you can effectively push those numbers quite high.  Likewise, if you've chosen weapons with high dispositions you can get some surprisingly heavy buffs.  In practice then, there are two weapons to choose from that will benefit powers then.  You either choose weapons with higher combo counters or those with huge riven dispositions.  Looking at just a few weapons that means I can choose the Venka Prime (x13 combo instead of x12), the Mire (5/5 disposition), and the Amphis (5/5 disposition).

Why not also choose something with an innately good skill?  Namely, something with lifesteal built in like the Hirudo?  Well, those rivens really break the game.  You can choose the Hirudo or slap on a riven that could increase base damage, critical chance, and adds an element so you can setup viral with only one other mod slot used.  You then get a power scaling off of different base numbers, with multipliers from a weapon that is significantly worse.  This is where the "overwhelming" potential for damage comes from.

 

Now, what is the catch?  Combo counter is not generally shared with warframe abilities.  Basically, you can build combo counter with your melee, but if you then switch over to spamming powers the combo counter degrades and disappears.  Let's use Gara as an example, equipped with a skana.  She gets a x12 multiplier, then spams shattered lash, initially doing huge amounts of damage.  After a few seconds that x12 inherited melee multiplier then evaporates, and she does the regular damage.  So the play here become build combo, switch to power, then switch back to melee quickly enough that the combo duration isn't allowed to drain.  That'd be frustrating, but you can build around it.  There are mods to increase combo duration, and there's a focus school where combo decreases over time rather than just disappearing (naramon).  As such, people can get and maintain huge multipliers simply by occasionally switching back to melee, smacking a single enemy, and keeping that combo counter high.

 

What was different about the Xoris?  Well, you built the combo and didn't have to maintain it.  It wasn't higher than the other weapons.  It had terrible riven disposition.  It's only benefit was an innate ability to not decay unless a heavy attack was used.  This meant someone didn't have to choose naramon or dedicate mod slots to extended combo duration for usability.  It also meant that choosing the Xoris meant no riven potential, so you traded a bit of convenience in maintaining the multiplier for potential damage.  It was not overwhelming or broken, unless all weapons that do this are.  It does less potential damage than other weapons who have not eaten a nerf, but is being cited as game breaking.

 

So, let's discuss why people are angry.  The Xoris was released, and it's come at a time when people have asked for separately customized warframe weapons for years.  DE hasn't done it consistently, and for an example I'd suggest you look at Garuda.  Garuda has claws, and the way to mods them is to unequip your melee.  You then get access in the UI to modify her claws.  You should also note that Garuda isn't listed above, as having powerful interactions with the Xoris.  It's not a coincidence.  What has been requested for literal years is that all warframes with in-built weapon powers have the ability to customize them.  This would mean the death of so called stat-sticks.  A stat-stick is a weapon whose purpose is to transfer their mods to a warframe ability.  By removing stat-sticks you can directly control warframe ability powers, and not have to worry about the broken nature of your existing riven system.

 

What is galling is that anyone with a functioning understanding of the system sees this.  Yes, it will mean certain stat-stick rivens are no longer able to command a premium price and it will take DE to balance these new weapons.  At the same time, the current methodology of simply ignoring the underlying issue and making claims about things being too powerful is going to make people who understand you mechanics quite angry.  DE decided to slap a nerf onto one thing, cite that it was too powerful, and allow more powerful alternatives to continue to exist.  That's why people are angry.  That's why we think DE doesn't play their game.  This mechanic has been in the game for years.

 

 

Now let's discuss why it hasn't been a problem before.  The answer is weeping wounds and blood rush.  Previously the combo counter system had a much lower cap, and both of these mods offered a higher per combo value.  Well, melee got reworked and now you need high combo counter to get these things to scale.  That's just fine for regular melee, as this effectively made melee very damaging.  Great, now you've got warframe powers that can and cannot scale off of melee weapons.  It's pretty obvious then that your next challenge is going to be getting those big combo counters to work on warframe powers....which DE forgot to balance for.  Effectively, stat-stick melee has become a way to boost warframe power damage very high...and this was entirely glossed over.  DE either forgot about stat-stick powers, glossed over them, or didn't understand how they worked.  No matter what the reason they are highlighting that issue by nerfing a weapon, claiming it's power related, but leaving all of the other more powerful options in-place.

The net statement here is DE doesn't know their own game.  They've reflexively nerfed a unique weapon, claiming that it isn't an intended interaction.  The issue underlying all of this should be addressed (requirements for stat-sticks), but instead they reflexively nerf a weapon from being a good choice to being unusable except in one game mode that has very finite rewards.  That's just silly, and why people who see the foolishness are so frustrated.

 

DE, if you read this please understand that you're the ones at fault here.  You need to fix the stat-stick issue, not nerf weapons because you think the numbers associated are too high.  Unfortunately though, we all know that this is a lesson you haven't learned in nearly 8 years.  

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BUGS IN LOADER:

caught by surprise at the loader, only by the font itself. I didn't know a new content was coming.

then tried to see "what's new" section to find more problems; the UI does not scale the content to fit inside. just like you have a content of 800x800 content but got only 600x600 windows to use, and you just forgot to scale the content down to window, only a part is shown.

then tried to restart the loader, it asked to be sure since there is an update going on, which is not shown on UI because of the scaling. then hang to freeze.

now I am afraid when that non visible update progress reaches to an end, there wont be a visible play button to press.

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5 минут назад, yilmazdurmaz сказал:

BUGS IN LOADER:

caught by surprise at the loader, only by the font itself. I didn't know a new content was coming.

then tried to see "what's new" section to find more problems; the UI does not scale the content to fit inside. just like you have a content of 800x800 content but got only 600x600 windows to use, and you just forgot to scale the content down to window, only a part is shown.

then tried to restart the loader, it asked to be sure since there is an update going on, which is not shown on UI because of the scaling. then hang to freeze.

now I am afraid when that non visible update progress reaches to an end, there wont be a visible play button to press.

support says to reduce windows scaling to 100% or less
just got email. on my way home to check./

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3 minutes ago, Morrendeil said:

support says to reduce windows scaling to 100% or less

so basically when they break a working function, they just blame our settings. pitty.

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