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Baruuk millions of damage? Is it even balance for the game?

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3 hours ago, Scruffel said:

So it's not true that the Xoris gave access to a massive amounts of damage from one simple build-up of the melee combo counter to certain Warframe abilities? It wasn't just a tool of convenience, it was easy access to consistent, high DPS with little drawback. 

They said it directly boosted the damage of exalted and pseudo exalteds.

Rivens directly boost the damage of pseudo exalteds.

They nerfed Xoris but not rivens.

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13 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They said it directly boosted the damage of exalted and pseudo exalteds.

Rivens directly boost the damage of pseudo exalteds.

They nerfed Xoris but not rivens.

Exactly, the fact that it even affected Exalted damage was a part of the issue. And as far as I am concerned, there's no riven that can give infinite combo duration, or affect Exalteds. Not defending them, or stat sticks, since I feel like the ladder has overdue their stay and should be replaced with simply modding pseudo-Exalteds directly. But still, it doesn't make sense to come to such a conclusion.

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Lots of damage yes, but the tradeoff is you need to manage his restraint and his other skills in order to keep it up.

It feels pretty rewarding when you're able to do this, but he only really shines when theres a good supply of enemies around, like in steel path and sorties.

 

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It looks pretty balance to me.

You should argue why other exalted weapons sucks, not why monk fists strong.

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On 2020-07-10 at 11:48 AM, GnarlsDarkley said:

You do know that Nidus has an infinite scaling, do you?

And Ash does as well with his 1 and his 4.

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On 2020-07-10 at 12:14 PM, Shyltar said:

Ho at first i thought you were going to say by "pressing 4" 😉

You realize that in many case a baruuk would not have time to do anything before every mob in 40m radius is already killed by a mesa, a equinox, a mirage, saryn, volt and a couple  more frames or any decent weapon with a good aoe?
Also you can do millions of damage with just a melee (not even high end) and in most case it does not mather if you do 100k or 1 million damage since it's overkill anyway... 

Volt can't nuke. Stop this nonsense. Go above level 40 and no amount of power strength allows Volt to nuke.

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Posted (edited)
On 2020-07-10 at 12:59 PM, GREF_TM said:

Baruuk ramps up to 12x to get red crits via bug (because otherwise it's currently impossible to get guaranteed red crits with him), gains restraint by temporary sacrificing killing efficiency (and btw, also fights with other DPS on his team for it), to get a chance to kill a bunch of lvl150 heavy gunners in one combo. Meanwhile, khora ramps up to 12x to get red crits fair and square, presses 2, then 1, and everything in 10m radius (ignoring obstacles) takes like 30 millions of raw damage - "seems legit". 

It does use a stat stick, just in a different way. You build it for quick combo stacking (true punishment redeemer or relentless venka) and combo duration to get effect of gladiator mod set bonus on desert wind because it's currently bugged and works only off you normal melee combo counter.

Hope this will be true for exalted blade one day.

It's a bug, so your point holds no ground.

Same as the first.

Exalted Blade two shots level 100+ enemies. And I don't even have a proper build on it, or on Excal. It's perfectly fine as it is.

Balancing around rivens is preposterous, and Baruuk is just fine as he is. Instead of trying to nerf exalted weapons, why don't we work to fix other exalted weapons which are less powerful than melee? Iron Staff and Talons need major buffs to name 2. Not only should exalted weapons be significantly more powerful than regular weapons, but they should each have a unique attribute which makes them stand out from being just a "stronger primary/secondary/melee." Talons makes Valkyr invincible, Exalted Blade shoots energy waves, Desert Wind shoots energy blasts, Artemis Bow shoots multiple arrows in controllable allignment, Dex Pixia and Diwata are archwing weapons, Regulators are aimbot, but what does Iron Staff do? I believe weapons such as Artemis Bow, Diwata, Garuda's Talons, and especially Iron Staff need more unique features. In fact, I believe all exalted weapons should be looked at and reworked to not only be significantly more powerful than normal weapons, but also need better unique features (Apart from Exalted Blade and Desert Wind, as they're perfectly fine as is).

Some examples:

- Talons: I don't think Talons should just make you invincible, that's pretty boring. Maybe it could boost damage and attack speed the longer you're in it to a cap. It could start off fairly weak, but would quickly ramp up in DPS, while also boosting shield and hp restoration. That would easily fit an adrenaline-enraged animal/person.

- Artemis Bow: Multiple arrows being fired at once just isn't unique enough, and works as a more \-spread multishot. Artemis could hit anyone and anything with her bow, so maybe Artemis Bow's arrows could have a level of homing. Yes, that may sort of overlap with Ivara's 1, but her 1 needs a rework anyway, as half of the options are effectively useless and entirely impractical (even though the ideas are awesome). Keep the multishot, but allow us to alt fire to focus the arrows, and give them a decent homing attribute.

- Diwata: Archmelee is in a sad state right now, and Diwata is even further overshadowed by how good Dex Pixia are. Instead of seeing this and nerfing Dex Pixia, why don't we fix/buff Diwata. Diwata could have an innate life steal and could temporarily paralyze enemies with a cooldown. Fairies (not Fae) are regarded as healers in a lot of videogame lore, and Pixies are regarded as thieves of children and of life-energy. so Diwata having an innate lifesteal would fit Titania well. Temporarily paralyzing enemies (with a cooldown) would fit the shock value of seeing a fairy with your own two eyes. Or it could go the route of her minions and be like bugs overwhelming them, only a slightly bigger bug.

- Iron Staff: I don't have anything good for this right now, but you get the point.

These are all just examples, not propositions.

And instead of trying to nerf exalted weapons, we should be asking DE to fix them. Melee 3.0 was one of the greatest changes DE has made to Warframe, at least in my opinion, but it causes many exalted weapons to be overshadowed. Exalted weapons cost an ability slot and energy over time. Melee costs nothing. Therefore, exalted weapons should be treated as something special -- more powerful and unique than normal weapons.

 

Edited by (NSW)FlameDivinity

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il y a 34 minutes, (NSW)FlameDivinity a dit :

Volt can't nuke. Stop this nonsense. Go above level 40 and no amount of power strength allows Volt to nuke.

I totally agree that not all frames have the same nuking capability and that on higher level mobs Volt will lag behind equinox and sayrn (he still fare better than banshee or mag though). But the volts i am runing ESO with have no problem nuking the first rounds and mobs there starts at lvl 60...which is higher level than what you encounter in most content in warframe.  Anyway, that's beside the point of the discussion here.

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Assuming this is for SP , I am not sure what OP means,

Yes baruuk with reactive storm augment can dish out damage but getting into millions damage without an active buff (Stat stick or otherwise) on self or debuff on enemies (armor removal and increased vulnerability) is unlikely.

What you want to complain about is the stat sticks that can allow overlap of combo counters and mods that bleed their effects into it.

It also needs to be built up and maintained (killing enemies makes it deplete , and keeping them alive for just enough time allows you to replenish it).

 

What needs to be looked at are stat sticks that allow this kind of playstyle where you can take advantage of a mod that is not even on the weapon.

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12 hours ago, Scruffel said:

So it's not true that the Xoris gave access to a massive amounts of damage from one simple build-up of the melee combo counter to certain Warframe abilities? It wasn't just a tool of convenience, it was easy access to consistent, high DPS with little drawback. 

The Xoris built combo counter the same as any other weapon and the damage ramp up is the same as any other melee combo counter. Having a Xoris x12 combo doesn't give you more damage than any other melee x12 combo counter. It doesn't increase damage any more than other melee combo counters. The difference is the Xoris combo counter never decayed, making it easier to just focus on other things, but you could basically have infinite combo counter on other melees as well, but you would have to exit your exalted form and tap enemies once with your melee every 30 seconds or so. On the other hand, rivens were ignored on the nerf reasons of giving actual higher damage values (the reason stated on the Xoris nerf). Having the same damage with both weapons but managing the combo counter once in a while vs never is indeed convenience. You still have people with infinite combo counter, but they are now punished if someone decides to nuke the entire map and kill that enemy you were about to hit to reset the combo counter.

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khora and baruuk will be nerfed soon (they are fun AND powerful) so have fun with them while you can
that's the way it goes ;D

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Shyltar said:

I totally agree that not all frames have the same nuking capability and that on higher level mobs Volt will lag behind equinox and sayrn (he still fare better than banshee or mag though). But the volts i am runing ESO with have no problem nuking the first rounds and mobs there starts at lvl 60...which is higher level than what you encounter in most content in warframe.  Anyway, that's beside the point of the discussion here.

It bothers me when people say Volt can nuke because in my tests, he can't above level 40s. HOWEVER, I keep forgetting my controlled tests are only against corrupted, and Volt can nuke grineer up to level 50s, and Corpus + Infested at far higher levels. I remember nuking at least level 70s in Corpus, and any and all Infested I come up against. My bad rip.

Edited by (NSW)FlameDivinity

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

It bothers me when people say Volt can nuke because in my tests, he can't above level 40s. HOWEVER, I keep forgetting my tests are only against corrupted, and Volt can nuke grineer up to level 50s, and Corpus + Infested at far higher levels. My bad rip.

volt can nuke high level corrupted as well(done till 80-100), just that his build is rather uncomfortable for that, it relies on energy conversion, on a full spread of enemies, on cp  and all and all compared to a saryn build is way way more unreliable and harder to pull off solo

edit: and agains the "hard mode" enemies it just doesn't work

Edited by vegetosayajin
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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, vegetosayajin said:

volt can nuke high level corrupted as well(done till 80-100), just that his build is rather uncomfortable for that, it relies on energy conversion, on a full spread of enemies, on cp  and all and all compared to a saryn build is way way more unreliable and harder to pull off solo

Yeah, I should've put reasonably beforehand.  If I go around applying heat on every Corrupted enemy before I use his 4, then I can nuke them. But why the hell would I do that when I could just finish them with melee while they're stunned?

Edited by (NSW)FlameDivinity

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On 2020-07-10 at 5:44 PM, HonGenome said:

It just my opinion, but these overpowered frames are way too extreme, the gap from other's frame like Ash, Nidus, etc

Ash and Nidus do not have Exalted weapons and so obviously they are going to be less powerful than one that does. What did you expect? Nidus and Ash are also inferior to certain other frames that don't have exalted weapons but excel in areas they do not. That does not mean they need to be nerfed either. Ash and Nidus excel in areas that other frames don't as well.

Baruuk and Khora the only frames at the moment with an exalted weapon that's worth a damn. Every other exalted weapon is rubbish.

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10 hours ago, Scruffel said:

Exactly, the fact that it even affected Exalted damage was a part of the issue. And as far as I am concerned, there's no riven that can give infinite combo duration, or affect Exalteds. Not defending them, or stat sticks, since I feel like the ladder has overdue their stay and should be replaced with simply modding pseudo-Exalteds directly. But still, it doesn't make sense to come to such a conclusion.

Literally every melee weapon can affect exalted weapons with the gladiator set. Xoris wasn’t special.

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Posted (edited)

 

5 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

It's a bug, so your point holds no ground.

I doubt you understood what my point was.

5 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

Exalted Blade two shots level 100+ enemies. And I don't even have a proper build on it, or on Excal. It's perfectly fine as it is.

Exalted blade is nowhere near being "perfectly fine as is". There are normal, energy-free weapons that perform at a comparable level, there are probably even some that outperform it, and compared to an actual good exalted, desert wind, it's a piece of garbage. Paired with how baruuk also has way better survivability, for any mission that is longer than a couple of minutes, EB excal is currently just a crappy baruuk for all intents and purposes, minus a 60-70m blind build.]

Being less crappy than iron staff and claws doesn't make it fine, it still underperforms and needs buffs to at least somewhat compete with desert wind. Not be as powerful, because baruuk has a limiting factor, but not as much weaker as it is now either.

5 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

Balancing around rivens is preposterous

Whether you like it or not, as long as rivens can affect frame abilities in such a huge way they do now, you have to consider them. The only way out is to either make frame abilities ignore them, or give frame abilities their separate modding page, both of which are risky and will inevitably piss off a huge amount of players who invested into statsticks and rivens, even if those changes would be done right and be accompanied by buffs to said abilities.

5 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

Baruuk is just fine as he is

When exactly did i say he isn't? Now don't even doubt it, you clearly haven't got the point of my initial message.

Edited by GREF_TM
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14 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

 

I doubt you understood what my point was.

Exalted blade is nowhere near being "perfectly fine as is". There are normal, energy-free weapons that perform at a comparable level, there are probably even some that outperform it, and compared to an actual good exalted, desert wind, it's a piece of garbage. Paired with how baruuk also has way better survivability, for any mission that is longer than a couple of minutes, EB excal is currently just a crappy baruuk for all intents and purposes, minus a 60-70m blind build.]

Being less crappy than iron staff and claws doesn't make it fine, it still underperforms and needs buffs to at least somewhat compete with desert wind. Not be as powerful, because baruuk has a limiting factor, but not as much weaker as it is now either.

Whether you like it or not, as long as rivens can affect frame abilities in such a huge way they do now, you have to consider them. The only way out is to either make frame abilities ignore them, or give frame abilities their separate modding page, both of which are risky and will inevitably piss off a huge amount of players who invested into statsticks and rivens, even if those changes would be done right and be accompanied by buffs to said abilities.

When exactly did i say he isn't? Now don't even doubt it, you clearly haven't got the point of my initial message.

You're just wrong, nothing more to it. Nobody agrees with you, nobody likes what you're trying to propose. Sorry, tough luck.

Also, your Excal build needs a good looking at if it's being outperformed by other melee, ESPECIALLY by Iron Staff and Talons. The fact that you claim Iron Staff of all things outperforms Exalted Blade is extremely laughable.

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21 hours ago, dEjAvU5566 said:

It looks pretty balance to me.

You should argue why other exalted weapons sucks, not why monk fists strong.

Finally someone with common sense.

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3 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

You're just wrong

Nice argument.

3 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

Excal build needs a good looking at if it's being outperformed by other melee

Have you ever tried heavy attack/hybrid stropha?

3 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

The fact that you claim Iron Staff of all things outperforms Exalted Blade

Now i'm 100% sure why you couldn't get the point of my previous message - you simply can't read. lol

1 hour ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Don't worry. Now that Baruuk is popular, he will get nerfed inevitably. 

Mesa is very popular, outperforms most DPS frames until armor becomes too prevalent (which is basically only endurance or steel path, which not a lot of people will play anyway) yet haven't got nerfed in 5 years since that 360* peacemaker nerf. So don't worry, until baruuk breaks something in their new grind-heavy event, there shouldn't be any nerfs.

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8 hours ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said:

You're just wrong, nothing more to it. Nobody agrees with you, nobody likes what you're trying to propose. Sorry, tough luck.

Also, your Excal build needs a good looking at if it's being outperformed by other melee, ESPECIALLY by Iron Staff and Talons. The fact that you claim Iron Staff of all things outperforms Exalted Blade is extremely laughable.

He is right on many things though. Exalted blade even with the sacrificial mods and augment isn't cutting it when you have energy free weapons which outscale it by a factor of 2

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5 hours ago, GREF_TM said:

Mesa is very popular, outperforms most DPS frames until armor becomes too prevalent (which is basically only endurance or steel path, which not a lot of people will play anyway) yet haven't got nerfed in 5 years since that 360* peacemaker nerf. So don't worry, until baruuk breaks something in their new grind-heavy event, there shouldn't be any nerfs.

I've taken a "don't forma anything" approach to the game. I expect nerfs to happen when I like something. 

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On 2020-07-10 at 12:44 PM, HonGenome said:

It just my opinion, but these overpowered frames are way too extreme, the gap from other's frame like Ash, Nidus, etc.

Now player selling a lot of riven with high price trying to sell a lot of things, farm so many hours got beaten by E button from Baruuk? It doesn't make sense to me

Dude's a riven seller. He doesn't actually care about "balance" or the health of the game. Rivens are not healthy for the game and here's a prime example why.

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9 hours ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Don't worry. Now that Baruuk is popular, he will get nerfed inevitably. 

It should (one hopes) be ok...

For my part, I am just surprised that Baruuk got this effective at all given that DE normally reserves those levels of awesome power for female frames.

Absent that, he's got reasonable drawbacks in that it has a windup and that the area needs to be (and remain) enemy dense.

We used to complain about OP and Underpowered but there really aren't any hideously underpowered frames now.

 

That leaves me wondering what the enemy landscape of The New War is going to look like.

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