Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It exsists but not for the reasons you think.

The only reason that I can think of is that DE is held hostage in a situation that can potentially harm DE and War Frame. 

In simple words. If Tencent meddles with Warframe economy, believe me people will migrate. 

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The danger is just as real now incase a government wanted to target games for spying since the same method would be required in both cases. DE will never let it happen by adding it to the game on deman by their "overlords". Outside sources will be the factor and those are already present dangers.

You suppose that such entity will behave. 

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

Yes, Tencent has been involved, but that has been within China through some of their "social" apps that have been connected to facial recognizion etc

If Tencent behaves in such way within China, can you imagine how they will behave with the rest of the world? 

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

, this is why Huawei was stopped from expanding in europe using their own hardware, software and workers for the masts, since they are tied to Tencent and the chinese government. I mean this isnt something new though since swedish Telia and I think Sony/Ericsson were involved with something similar in some eastern euro country some years ago that let the government spy on disidents.

You do realize what is going on between India and China right and Chinese products? True this is not something new, unfortunately. 

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

If you think tencent would splurge in excess of a BILLION dollars to buy Leyou, who's most profitable part is DE, and then not put pressure on DE to increase revenue/profit then you are seriously kidding yourself.

No one knows what the actual legal terms of these "creative rights" are, but I'll guarantee you that's being looked at by Tencent right now.

Tencent will want a return on their investment, that's business.  And I doubt that they'll wait years to get it.

Pretty much. 

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Hyperion Rexx said:

If you think tencent would splurge in excess of a BILLION dollars to buy Leyou, who's most profitable part is DE, and then not put pressure on DE to increase revenue/profit then you are seriously kidding yourself.

No one knows what the actual legal terms of these "creative rights" are, but I'll guarantee you that's being looked at by Tencent right now.

Tencent will want a return on their investment, that's business.  And I doubt that they'll wait years to get it.

But they simply cant, since Leyou cannot sell DE's instact creative rights to Tencent. So they are very much limited by that no matter what people think. DE has the last say in anything regarding WF. There is also no such thing as "these "creative rights"", they are international and abide by the same rules everywhere. It is where copyright and everything else comes from. Tencent will get there return on anual throw offs, like all other holding companies, aswell as possible extra income by getting access to IP rights for say mobile WF products, TV-shows, movies, magazines or whatever else you can think of that they can buy/rent the rights for from DE.

[Felsagger]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

But they simply cant, since Leyou cannot sell DE's instact creative rights to Tencent. So they are very much limited by that no matter what people think. DE has the last say in anything regarding WF. There is also no such thing as "these "creative rights"", they are international and abide by the same rules everywhere. It is where copyright and everything else comes from. Tencent will get there return on anual throw offs, like all other holding companies, aswell as possible extra income by getting access to IP rights for say mobile WF products, TV-shows, movies, magazines or whatever else you can think of that they can buy/rent the rights for from DE.

Sorry, nothing stops them. 

In a business if they invest, they want returns. Do you think they are going to wait years for DE to be profitable? Are you sure of this? Are you? 

[ShogunNoir]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But they simply cant, since Leyou cannot sell DE's instact creative rights to Tencent. So they are very much limited by that no matter what people think. DE has the last say in anything regarding WF. There is also no such thing as "these "creative rights"", they are international and abide by the same rules everywhere. It is where copyright and everything else comes from. Tencent will get there return on anual throw offs, like all other holding companies, aswell as possible extra income by getting access to IP rights for say mobile WF products, TV-shows, movies, magazines or whatever else you can think of that they can buy/rent the rights for from DE.

The most recent example of Tencent's interference is with Rocket League. There has been no new content; all of it is recycled. And the cosmetics for the game cost genuinely absurd amounts. Like seriously, something like £20 for a goal explosion. And that's for a game that you have to pay to access.

What will happen with a game like Warframe that is free to play? We see how bad the microtransactions are in Fortnite, we'll probably expect something like that. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

The only reason that I can think of is that DE is held hostage in a situation that can potentially harm DE and War Frame. 

In simple words. If Tencent meddles with Warframe economy, believe me people will migrate. 

You suppose that such entity will behave. 

If Tencent behaves in such way within China, can you imagine how they will behave with the rest of the world? 

You do realize what is going on between India and China right and Chinese products? True this is not something new, unfortunately. 

Again I ask you. Do you honestly think DE would commit a national crime to avoid that their product needs to find new investors? I mean do you seriously think a game studio would do such a drastic and extremely dangerous thing?

They cant behave that way with the rest of the world. They are constantly getting checked and controlled at the highest levels. Go out there and read up on how the world actually works in relation to china these days. There has been a massive change over the last few years.

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Sorry, nothing stops them. 

In a business if they invest, they want returns. Do you think they are going to wait years for DE to be profitable? Are you sure of this? Are you? 

Yes, the contract stops them. edit: And WF is already profitable, so Tencent will see a return in the first annual report after obtaining Leyou.

4 minutes ago, ShogunNoir said:

The most recent example of Tencent's interference is with Rocket League. There has been no new content; all of it is recycled. And the cosmetics for the came cost genuinely absurd amounts. Like seriously, something like £20 for a goal explosion. And that's for a game that you have to pay to access.

What will happen with a game like Warframe that is free to play? We see how bad the microtransactions are in Fortnite, we'll probably expect something like that. 

What are you even on about? Tencent doesnt own Rocket League, Epic owns the company that develops Rocket League. There is a massive difference. Tencent has minority shares in Epic.

[Angwah]

Ok, people obviously get worried for no reason at all. This is not how laws and corporate ownership works.

If Chinese law enforcement comes knocking at a Tencent sub's door and demands access to servers which are on Chinese sovereign soil they are legally obligated to comply.

While Tencent will perhaps own Leyou, which in turn owns DE, DE is a separate legal entity which is not located in China, whose data servers are not in China and in no way beholden to give access to its data. In fact, quite forbidden to do so without prior notice and consent to do anything with that data. If they do so DE, and its management, are liable for serious fines and likely jail time. I'm sorry, but fearing Tencent will turn Warframe into spyware are going to run off with your private data really is tinfoil hat territory.

Now, while Warframe's profit went down in 2019, DE is still profitable. I have on numerous occasions linked to articles commenting on Tencent's reputation of being hands-off with their western investments. You may choose to worry of course, nobody can see in the future, but it would be out of character for them.

More likely is that they took over Leyou to deny it to their main Chinese competitor and to bolster ChinaFrame.

 

[VegaCP]

On 2020-07-10 at 8:21 AM, Alkarnus said:

Who knows, if the current DE ever loses creative independence they might be motivated to make Warframe 2. Just my ten cents.

DE hasn't been "creative" in a long time, man. Deadlock Protocol is basically a weapon/warframe farm mode that most people won't revisit. We won't even talk about the prior updates where logins were down almost 50%. If DE gets enough $$$ they'll be down for it.

[Felsagger]

9 minutes ago, VegaCP said:

DE hasn't been "creative" in a long time, man. Deadlock Protocal is basically a weapon/warframe farm mode that most people won't revisit. We won't even talk about the prior updates where logins were down almost 50%. If DE gets enough $$$ they'll be down for it.

If WE want to see serious changes DE needs a lot of cash to put this game in orbit. They need resources, more developers and collaborations.  

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

They are not in control. DE is in a perfect storm. 

DE can't. 

Tencent, of course. 

They can be regulated, checked, observed or even penalized. Nothing stops them. That's the issue. Laws keeps reminding people of what things should be done and what shouldn't but that doesn't stop crime either. 

See? 

I do. Do you? 

It's either that or the inevitable. 

 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Leyou sells because War Frame stopped being profitable decreasing 20 millions in gains according to Leyou. 

That's why they sell. Because they don't want things to remain the same. 

 

You are still completely oblivious to creative rights/control. No matter how much Leyou sells, DE will still retain creative rights/control, since that isnt Leyou's property to sell, never was, never will be and it wont be something Tencent can sell or change later on either unless they fully buy DE.

So DE are fully protected and it would require a criminal act from DE to ever open an opportunity for spyware inside the game. Tencent has no say in WF the product except when DE decides to seek funding for a project. It doesnt matter why Leyou sells, it doesnt change anything.

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

People get worried, Ervin. 

The history is all written in the walls. 

Except that is all on Epic games since Epic is the owner of those things, not Tencent. Tencent and Epic havent merged, so they are parent companies to different studios while collaborating as parent companies regarding certain things (asian publishing, indie funding etc etc.). If Epic was Tencent there would have never been the debacle regarding the "skinsuits" in Fortnite when it initially released, which had to be fully redone for china. You'd think if Tencent was involved in the development that would have been quite well known long before it was ready for release.

[Hayabusa97]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

You’re about to stop playing a lot of games then cause a lot of china companies own shares and parts of A lot of western games 

Not just stop playing a lot of games, you'll also have to stop using certain websites and apps. I've been using Spotify, Reddit, and Discord for years, I am not going to sacrifice my access to new music, a variety of news and discussion topics, and various communities just to make an ultimately meaningless political statement (even if it's one I agree with). Boycotts are easier said than done when you're dealing with multinational conglomerates.

[Biscotchi]

It's always depressing to hear Tencent is expanding their control internationally.

With a company that large, it basically couldn't exist in China without extremely strict government oversight and control. While it seems a lot of people jump at the thought of predatory monetization ($95 weapon skin packs in Valorant? Are you serious?) or data security being the biggest issue, it's the enforcement of CCP dogma that scares me the most. Wherever Chinese money flows overseas, Chinese censorship follows (ex. Hong Kong v. Activision-Blizzard).

With Tencent always expanding, its getting harder and harder to not support them, and people will have to decide for themselves where they draw the line. For companies like Activision and Ubisoft, where they only hold roughly 5% ownership it's pretty easy to gloss over, but it's my personal policy to not support any companies that they have a large/majority share in, like Riot and Epic.

If DE is being added to the list of companies they fully own, I think my time with Warframe is, sadly, over.

 

 

[BahamutKaiser]

13 hours ago, Follordark said:

oh yes of course I get all my info form the most untrustworthy and biased channel on youtube that publishes 3 vid a week despite the fact that no good informative channel publishes that much and  I am completely oblivious to the fact that this channel's parent company is a falun gong offshoot that got kicked form china,and I also don't notice the guy twisthing evry info he says in a way to match his world view.

like srlsy stop watching this channel as it is not a good channel to watch

LMFAO, you'd have to be a fascist sympathizer to let Falun Gong come out like a slur. Why don't you ask your boss where the real Panchen Lama is?

[OniDax]

14 hours ago, Follordark said:

oh yes of course I get all my info form the most untrustworthy and biased channel on youtube that publishes 3 vid a week despite the fact that no good informative channel publishes that much and  I am completely oblivious to the fact that this channel's parent company is a falun gong offshoot that got kicked form china,and I also don't notice the guy twisthing evry info he says in a way to match his world view.

like srlsy stop watching this channel as it is not a good channel to watch

Considering what the Chinese government is doing to Falun Gong practitioners, it's problematic the way you're talking about them. It says quite a lot about your worldview and provides insight on why you hold the position you do regarding Tencent.

[Felsagger]

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

You are still completely oblivious to creative rights/control. No matter how much Leyou sells, DE will still retain creative rights/control, since that isnt Leyou's property to sell, never was, never will be and it wont be something Tencent can sell or change later on either unless they fully buy DE.

Creative rights controls are not the issue. DE manages the game but who wants to make money out of this investment? 

Quote

So DE are fully protected and it would require a criminal act from DE to ever open an opportunity for spyware inside the game. Tencent has no say in WF the product except when DE decides to seek funding for a project. It doesnt matter why Leyou sells, it doesnt change anything.

You repeated that 10 times. Again that's not the issue. Tencent is literally a bloated EA in steroids. Do you think Tencent cares for gaming quality? No.  

Quote

Except that is all on Epic games since Epic is the owner of those things, not Tencent. Tencent and Epic havent merged, so they are parent companies to different studios while collaborating as parent companies regarding certain things (asian publishing, indie funding etc etc.). If Epic was Tencent there would have never been the debacle regarding the "skinsuits" in Fortnite when it initially released, which had to be fully redone for china. You'd think if Tencent was involved in the development that would have been quite well known long before it was ready for release.

We are not discussing Epic Game's Fortnite case. 

The problem is that such enterprise is growing way too fast. We can't let one industry take over the Gaming industry. Tencent is fine where they are. We don't want them here. If the Chinese wants their WarFrame version, fine why not? However we don't want a Chinese corporation controlling DE and our western entertainment. They have a different mindset, we have ours. Must remain that way, IMO

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, Biscotchi said:

It's always depressing to hear Tencent is expanding their control internationally.

With a company that large, it basically couldn't exist in China without extremely strict government oversight and control. While it seems a lot of people jump at the thought of predatory monetization ($95 weapon skin packs in Valorant? Are you serious?) or data security being the biggest issue, it's the enforcement of CCP dogma that scares me the most. Wherever Chinese money flows overseas, Chinese censorship follows (ex. Hong Kong v. Activision-Blizzard).

With Tencent always expanding, its getting harder and harder to not support them, and people will have to decide for themselves where they draw the line. For companies like Activision and Ubisoft, where they only hold roughly 5% ownership it's pretty easy to gloss over, but it's my personal policy to not support any companies that they have a large/majority share in, like Riot and Epic.

If DE is being added to the list of companies they fully own, I think my time with Warframe is, sadly, over.

 

 

SAY IT LOUDER, please. 

Those are the real concerns. 

 Let me write it down. D E M O C R A  C Y. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

The problem is that such enterprise is growing way too fast. We can't let one industry take over the Gaming industry. Tencent is fine where they are. We don't want them here. If the Chinese wants their WarFrame version, fine why not? However we don't want a Chinese corporation controlling DE and our western entertainment. They have a different mindset, we have ours. Must remain that way. 

A Chinese corporation already controls DE...

Tencent is already firmly entrenched in Western Gaming...

No one is in a position to dictate what will or won't happen next as it relates to Tencent and Leyou...Not even DE.

At this point, either you choose to un-install or you choose to deal with whatever happens next and hope for the best.

 

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

A Chinese corporation already controls DE...

Tencent is already firmly entrenched in Western Gaming...

No one is in a position to dictate what will or won't happen next as it relates to Tencent and Leyou...Not even DE.

At this point, either you choose to un-install or you choose to deal with whatever happens next and hope for the best.

 

True but it was NOT Tencent. 

Now it is. 

And I'm sure that gaming will go DOWNHILL. (IMO)

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

20 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Creative rights controls are not the issue. DE manages the game but who wants to make money out of this investment? 

Tencet and such have hands off approaches on multiple western Ips because it generally makes them more money and western countries while do spend a lot on microtransactions it’s very common for people to not be as readily to spend on them as eastern countries such as japan China Korea etc.

 

22 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You repeated that 10 times. Again that's not the issue. Tencent is literally a bloated EA in steroids. Do you think Tencent cares for gaming quality? No

Ea is worse then tencent actually. 

The amount of studios that ea has shut down and a couple of shady and near illegal acts a lot of you don’t know. Also none of these companies care about gaming equality. They are just in it to for profit. It’s a business not your friendly neighborhood next door publisher. If they cared about a franchise or gaming equality we wouldn’t be getting terrible Star Wars games or Ubisoft pumping out for honor on console in a terrible state. Or Sony and their notoriety for it fixing net work security because they have a cheaper solution or (i can keep going in the spheres of these and much more) 

In short you guys are fear mongering tencent when in reality they have shares in some of these popular companies and hands on and around some of your favorite games. Especially in the western sphere. To which they have a hands off approach still.

even so tencent is In Shenzhen not to far from Hong Kong. And with all these regulations and such they can’t spy on the game or steal your data. They aren’t making de implement and change any software they arent and can’t place a dev in there to do so and have no access to change the contents or what de puts into the game in the manner that you all are worried about 

worried about micro transactions? Name a game without them in the mmo or arpg sphere. And compared to a lot of games in the market digital extremes monetization is very fair. 

Also drastically changing such could effectively mean loss in profit by a large margin which is again why they are so hands off with successful ips. Which warframe is currently in the ftp scope. 

People say “they are going to turn warframe into a mobile game”

bdo has a fully fledged console port (so bad it’s not funny but that’s because the port is poorly

optmized by the devs and a pc version.

The mobile version is the Mobile version and the devs who work on pc work on pc and the devs who work on console work on console nothing changes but an app in the App Store.

”warframe will be more p2w” 

no not by any margin.

that would cause a potential high loss in profits also not including the players who possibly have a very high yield of items effectively making that useless to monetize said item due to warframe and the players tendency’s to horde items for example. My friends who stock up on forma literally have 100s. If they made forma a cash only item it wouldn’t affect them for a long time .

 

on top of that locking players out of previously accessible items and content would receive backlash 

“But new players”

making monetization worse would make player retention worse along with the new player experience worse.

therefore making profits worse and it’d be a loss potentially. And this is a high risk actually for warframes standards.

”these companies don’t care about or feelings” true. They care about our wallets. And believe it or not but our feelings can and do influence our spending to these eastern companies and to many or most. 

 

all are “p2w” (not really Imo it’s just Pay to not rng and GRINDDDDDDDDDDDD but since people have a PvP aspect attached to it I can see why people could argue p2w)

Eso  is poorly monetized imo. 

POE

and much more. 

Warframe is an western made mmo based from Canada the montezation can’t change drastically no matter who gets a hold of their shares.

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

You repeated that 10 times. Again that's not the issue. Tencent is literally a bloated EA in steroids. Do you think Tencent cares for gaming quality? No.

You repeat yourself quite often ironic .

 

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

The problem is that such enterprise is growing way too fast. We can't let one industry take over the Gaming industry. Tencent is fine where they are. We don't want them here. If the Chinese wants their WarFrame version, fine why not? However we don't want a Chinese corporation controlling DE and our western entertainment. They have a different mindset, we have ours. Must remain that way, IMO

You do realize that the gaming industry has been like this for years right? 

[Felsagger]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Snip.

Wait, say again? 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/19/tencent-game-users-clap-chinese-president-xi-jinping-party-congress-speech.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tencent-launches-smartphone-game-in-support-of-chinas-president-1508415173

lmao. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

29 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Wait, say again? 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/19/tencent-game-users-clap-chinese-president-xi-jinping-party-congress-speech.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tencent-launches-smartphone-game-in-support-of-chinas-president-1508415173

lmao. 

And where is this apps region based? China. You’re not proving your point that this is a western issue presenting an app made for China’s region 

think smarter not harder lad

[(PSN)Onder6099]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Wait, say again? 

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/19/tencent-game-users-clap-chinese-president-xi-jinping-party-congress-speech.html

https://www.wsj.com/articles/tencent-launches-smartphone-game-in-support-of-chinas-president-1508415173

lmao. 

Nice example how to quickly earn mega millions. Don’t forget, after Tencent will get Leyou, those money could be easily used to keep WF F2P.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Nice example how to quickly earn mega millions. Don’t forget, after Tencent will get Leyou, those money could be easily used to keep WF F2P.

This is silly. 

 

I get that some people are concerned. And I think its reasonable to be concerned. But all we can do is wait and see how it goes. There's no point in freaking out about "what ifs". 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

35 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

This is silly. 

 

I get that some people are concerned. And I think its reasonable to be concerned. But all we can do is wait and see how it goes. There's no point in freaking out about "what ifs". 

What I’m concerned about is, that probably naive players under 20 which blindly believe what they governments are saying, using this Forum as some kind of anti Chinese propaganda. That’s all.