Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, Hawk197 said:

1: China wants to be the world police. They've already stated that mentions of a certain thing going on right now is subject to criminal charges. So if I were to mention this thing, I could be prosecuted should I go to China. I normally would mention these things, because I'm NEVER going over there, but I don't know what ramification it would have on DE. Just look at everything America is doing against China right now due to the things they've recently done. Don't matter if DE is in Canada, Turkey, or the Moon, Tencent can easily fire everyone, dissolve the company, then start a lawsuit in China should they try to reform and create Warframe 2.0, which could force them to go over to China and face arrest.

Under Canadian Law, a company cannot gather your comments and opinions without your explicit consent, which from my research they are not allowed to hide in EULA's and must instead be up-front, and a 'legitmate and identifiable reason', and they cannot keep that data long-term without your explicit consent which again they must be up-front about. So, no, the CCP cannot gather information to potentially arrest you if you go to China from Warframe.

Your point about them potentially doing so to DE is more concerning, but is there precedent for them doing such a thing, especially to prominent groups with millions of eyes on them?

8 minutes ago, Hawk197 said:

2: Valorant, another game under Tencents control, had/has an anti-virus that runs at system level. This allows for alot of different things to happen, such as allowing the install of software on your machine without your approval or even notifying you. It was determined that the data Vanguard, the anti-cheat Valorant uses, wasn't directly sending anything to China, but that doesn't mean the data isn't being sent to group A, then to group B, then to the Government.

Them potentially installing data onto your computer is concerning, but once again, they can't gather any personal, identifiable data without your explicit consent under Canadian law. They can't send your data to a proxy to send to China if they can't steal your data in the first place.

10 minutes ago, Hawk197 said:

3: Just look at Tiktok. Yes, the company needs to follow American laws, but that doesn't remove the facts. Tiktok is facing a ban right now. They didn't do anything illegal mind you, but because of China it could be banned. That's not to say Trump, Trudeau, or whoever will start to ban games like League of Legends, Fortnite, and Warframe, but it's a possibility that needs to be recognized.

Tiktok was developed in China. Warframe is developed in Canada

I'm not sure of the specifics, but I imagine it's a whole different beast producing a product that's legal and then trying to sneak it somewhere where it's isn't compared to just flat making an illegal product.

[Angwah]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Wrong again. 

Riot Game ALONE developed the success of LOL. Tencent wanted a slice of that pie. 

 

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Tencent can choke any company meet certain profit goals. That can push anyone towards absurd monetization strategies. This happened before, it can happen again. 

Tencent IS NOT a passive investor that expects nothing out of their investments. 

Let me quote this again: 

"Tencent doesn't change things in games, they (as investors) choke their companies to meet a profit goal and those companies have to come up with microtransactions and predatory models to make enough for it or we could see an increase of platinum costs in the marketplace. Warframe's current F2P model is really good, one of the best in my opinion, and my concern with Tencent acquiring DE is basically ruining that model. People who have played games whose parent company is Tencent already felt it"

Felsagger, just stop. You really don't know and are parrotting people here in this thread. Tencent was one of Riot Games first investors and were on board before the game even went into beta. They were there from the very start.

And you know what Tencent's reputation among actual business professionals is? Which is even so widespread you can find it trivially easy online, and which you should know as I have shoved links of it in your face: the reputation of being hands-off with their western investments, of investing either early in projects they have faith in, or success stories and giving them the space and funds to either grow when small, or keep doing their thing when they are already big as that is why they bought them in the first place. It's how they got so big and successful.

Look, people have posted they are a Chinese company puppeteered by the CCP, while in the actual real world there is only 1 Chinese investor left among their top 10 shareholders and he has 8% vs the 31% of the largest shareholder. Oh, and they are incorporated on the Cayman Islands. That they will come for your data, even though Canada has solid privacy laws so they simply can't, not that they even care to try. That they will utterly change DE's handling of their property when they are widely known to have the exact opposite reputation.

Lets just stop with the fearmongering and the blatant repeating of people who are hilariously uninformed. As in, most of what is posted in this thread is factually wrong, and this is easily verified if you just go and put even the slightest shred of effort into looking for information on real and reputable news and business sites.

[ReaverKane]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Wrong again. 

Riot Game ALONE developed the success of LOL. Tencent wanted a slice of that pie. 

Tencent can choke any company meet certain profit goals. That can push anyone towards absurd monetization strategies. This happened before, it can happen again. 

Tencent IS NOT a passive investor that expects nothing out of their investments. 

Let me quote this again: 

"Tencent doesn't change things in games, they (as investors) choke their companies to meet a profit goal and those companies have to come up with microtransactions and predatory models to make enough for it or we could see an increase of platinum costs in the marketplace. Warframe's current F2P model is really good, one of the best in my opinion, and my concern with Tencent acquiring DE is basically ruining that model. People who have played games whose parent company is Tencent already felt it"

Yeah... Where's the predatory Microtransactions in LOL?
Seriously?

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

 

Felsagger, just stop.

Sorry, I can voice my opinion as much I want. You deal with it. 

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

 

You really don't know and are parrotting people here in this thread. Tencent was one of Riot Games first investors and were on board before the game even went into beta. They were there from the very start.

Wrong again. 

No I'm not. I'm quoting ideas that happened. Other members think alike. Sorry to break this for you but we have concerns because we know how TENCENT will behave. Second, the glory for League of Legends belongs to RIOT games. They came with the idea and made it profitable. Tencent grabbed the bag because the monetization on such game is heavy. The brain behind the game was Riot Games, no one else. 

League of Legends started in October 27, 2009 then they got acquired in 2014 by Tencent. If you are going to lecture anyone in here please do your reading. I'm not clueless on the history of Architecture, Mathematics and Video games. When you decide to go academic, I'm all in. Right now you have a discomfort with my opinion because with all honesty I don't trust Tencent. Why? Simple, these guys will monetize even harder than what we have now. 

 

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

And you know what Tencent's reputation among actual business professionals is?

Business suits never play for the quality of the game. They play for the profit investing the cheapest possible. It's a min/max or optimization between income and expenses with profits in mind. Professionalism in business is one thing, that's why they have billions. Quality in video games is another. We are player who cares for the quality in the game. We are not business entrepreneurs, we are not actuarial scientist or business analysts. Tencent exists because they did business but our business is to safeguard the quality of other players and the quality of the game itself. 

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Which is even so widespread you can find it trivially easy online, and which you should know as I have shoved links of it in your face: the reputation of being hands-off with their western investments, of investing either early in projects they have faith in, or success stories and giving them the space and funds to either grow when small, or keep doing their thing when they are already big as that is why they bought them in the first place. It's how they got so big and successful.

Reputation for business is not the reason why we are gathered here speaking about the subject. We are here because there are serious concerns on how the panorama will affect US the players. Right now there are issues with players who plays the game for 12 hours doing survival runs. Those players are getting banned when their skill is legit. Why I have such concerns? Well because I like to test the game limits without cheating. I like to test my skills and work as a team doing survival runs. Right now some players have been banned for trade without the option of discussing the issue. 

This is not a matter of having faith for the better. Many of us, experienced players likes the idea of long term survivals but for some reasons, justified reasons, DE most defend their monetary system. It's perfectly justified. What we are going to have? A reduced experience. Now seeing enemies up to level 3000 will be questioned when we gained the experience to survive in a legit way, with the tools that the game provides. 

This game possesses attributes that are not found in any other game like the long hours survival runs and the speed runs. This game gives a lot of freedom on how we want to play and interact with other players in missions. Do you think that business suits and corporate will care? Yes they will, they will press harder over our pockets because Tencent will push DE for a profit goal. They can do that. They will do that. 

 

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Look, people have posted they are a Chinese company puppeteered by the CCP, while in the actual real world there is only 1 Chinese investor left among their top 10 shareholders and he has 8% vs the 31% of the largest shareholder. Oh, and they are incorporated on the Cayman Islands. That they will come for your data, even though Canada has solid privacy laws so they simply can't, not that they even care to try. That they will utterly change DE's handling of their property when they are widely known to have the exact opposite reputation.

That is not my discourse. I will not discuss this topic here. Our concern is the game health and quality. I'm concerned because I'm looking this as a player who enjoy the game for what it is. If the game goes into a plethora of transactions we will simply pack our luggage and leave. It will hurt because we stuck our nose for this game seven years. We grew with it helping to become what it is today. 

A billion dollar industry doesn't care for the game. That is the real concern. 

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Lets just stop with the fearmongering and the blatant repeating of people who are hilariously uninformed. As in, most of what is posted in this thread is factually wrong, and this is easily verified if you just go and put even the slightest shred of effort into looking for information on real and reputable news and business sites.

Wrong again. 

Don't use that word "fearmongering" as a scapegoat, it doesn't work, sorry. I never forced any player to write what they are writing. I am not forcing any player to think on my terms. However there are many players that shares the same vision despite if you like it or not. Sorry but you have to live with it. Don't try to do fencing with the word "uninformed". Quit trying to make them leave their point of view. 

If you want to inform, then go ahead, do your scholar contribution with links and respect other people's opinion. If you don't want to see my posts, simply skip them. 

That simple.   

[Felsagger]

58 minutes ago, ReaverKane said:

Yeah... Where's the predatory Microtransactions in LOL?
Seriously?

I never mentioned anything about LOL micro transactions. Never insinuated if they are fair or unfair. 

Don't suppose. 

[ReaverKane]

18 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I never mentioned anything about LOL micro transactions. Never insinuated if they are fair or unfair. 

Don't suppose. 

3 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 choke their companies to meet a profit goal and those companies have to come up with microtransactions and predatory models to make enough

 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, ReaverKane said:

 

League of legends is not on that list because the game IS profitable. There are competitions, new characters heroes etc in it. 

[Angwah]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Wrong again. 

No I'm not. I'm quoting ideas that happened. Other members think alike. Sorry to break this for you but we have concerns because we know how TENCENT will behave. Second, the glory for League of Legends belongs to RIOT games. They came with the idea and made it profitable. Tencent grabbed the bag because the monetization on such game is heavy. The brain behind the game was Riot Games, no one else. 

League of Legends started in October 27, 2009 then they got acquired in 2014 by Tencent. If you are going to lecture anyone in here please do your reading. I'm not clueless on the history of Architecture, Mathematics and Video games. When you decide to go academic, I'm all in. Right now you have a discomfort with my opinion because with all honesty I don't trust Tencent. Why? Simple, these guys will monetize even harder than what we have now. 

No, you obviously do not know how Tencent will behave. 

Oh, and Riot Games started in 2006. Tencent came on board with the first investors, sold by their pitch of making an asia-style f2p game with microtransactions, so before LoL even't had a beta. They upped their stakes to 93% in 2011 and bought the rest in 2015. Tencent did not come in late, and no, didn't say anywhere Riot didn't make the game what it is. That is actually my entire point.

I'll ignore your digression about endurance runs triggering DE's anti-cheat bot handing out trade bans. That's been around for a long time now and has no bearing whatsoever on this topic. Seriously.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Wrong again. 

Don't use that word "fearmongering" as a scapegoat, it doesn't work, sorry. I never forced any player to write what they are writing. I am not forcing any player to think on my terms. However there are many players that shares the same vision despite if you like it or not. Sorry but you have to live with it. Don't try to do fencing with the word "uninformed". Quit trying to make them leave their point of view. 

If you want to inform, then go ahead, do your scholar contribution with links and respect other people's opinion. If you don't want to see my posts, simply skip them. 

Do you know a better term for raising concerns not founded on anything other than fear, not objective reality and past actions? 

Riot Games, Grinding Gears Games, Epic Games and Bluehole, Supercell, Platinum Games, Frontier and many others all go out of their way to say Tencent allows them independence and space to do their own thing. Also outside of the gaming biz, with the actual business analysts the name Tencent is usually closely followed by 'hands-off investment strategy', and probably 'unlike Alibaba' who is more the acquisition and merger type. In fact a common criticism is that they leave their investments too much freedom, so they start competing against each other and at times even Tencent itself.

You really can not possibly miss any of this if you start looking for it, so, yes, uninformed is the kindest possible description.

[Felsagger]

13 hours ago, Angwah said:

No, you obviously do not know how Tencent will behave. 

You don't know that either. 

Quote

Oh, and Riot Games started in 2006. Tencent came on board with the first investors, sold by their pitch of making an asia-style f2p game with microtransactions, so before LoL even't had a beta. They upped their stakes to 93% in 2011 and bought the rest in 2015. Tencent did not come in late, and no, didn't say anywhere Riot didn't make the game what it is. That is actually my entire point.

Finally you are reading, good. 

Tencent acquired Riot games in 2011. 

"Riot Games was majority-acquired by Tencent in February 2011 and fully acquired in December 2015."

Riot games developed the idea from scratch for their game. So no. They got baked later not before. 

Quote

I'll ignore your digression about endurance runs triggering DE's anti-cheat bot handing out trade bans.

Ignore it as much you want. Once Tencent tighten the grip, believe me, a lot of that will get harsher.

Quote

That's been around for a long time now and has no bearing whatsoever on this topic. Seriously.

The problem is happening recently. Do a search. 

Quote

Do you know a better term for raising concerns not founded on anything other than fear, not objective reality and past actions? 

Skepticism. Yes that word exists. Do you want another one? Doubt. 

You are a player in War Frame. You do not work for Tencent. You do not gain anything trying to convince anyone here that Tencent is good or not? Sorry, but your words will not make any of us change our mind. Do you know what will make us change our minds? 

Events. 

Quote

Riot Games, Grinding Gears Games, Epic Games and Bluehole, Supercell, Platinum Games, Frontier and many others all go out of their way to say Tencent allows them independence and space to do their own thing.

Doesn't work that way. Any investor settles profit goals on each company. If anyone invest money owning these companies such investor expects profit out of the investment. That is how the world works in business. 

Are you going to invest in an Architecture firm that produces even numbers in every fiscal year? Answer, no. 

Quote

Also outside of the gaming biz, with the actual business analysts the name Tencent is usually closely followed by 'hands-off investment strategy', and probably 'unlike Alibaba' who is more the acquisition and merger type. In fact a common criticism is that they leave their investments too much freedom, so they start competing against each other and at times even Tencent itself.

Yes I read that but Alibaba is not the subject of this discussion. That's another discussion that will take us far aside of the topic. 

Quote

You really can not possibly miss any of this if you start looking for it, so, yes, uninformed is the kindest possible description.

Let me put it this way, no one debates Tencent profit market. No one debates their capacity in the business and their acquisition power. No one denies their ever growing importance. From a business stand point we have no doubts about their capabilities. 

Our subject is pretty simple. How they will handle War Frame when this hybrid 'rare' product doesn't behave like the other products in the market. How they will handle War Frame when the product itself is non standard? Is War Frame like LOL? No. Is War Frame a versus game? No. Even current players have issues trying to determine what War Frame is. 

As I said, skepticism is what I have. You have to deal with it. It's nice to have assessment of this caliber in the forums but none of it will change our minds. What will change our minds are the events and the performance of DE in the next two years. If we have the same performance or below you bet that many will simply pick another game. 

Sorry but that's my opinion about Tencent. Nothing that you say here will change my mind. If War Frame improves then my tone will be different. 

Simple. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

24 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

Tencent acquired Riot games in 2011. 

"Riot Games was majority-acquired by Tencent in February 2011 and fully acquired in December 2015."

Riot games developed the idea from scratch for their game. So no. They got baked later not before. 

Tencent was an early investor and backer since riots thought of LOL did you ignore that part?

[Angwah]

4 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Tencent was an early investor and backer since riots thought of LOL did you ignore that part?

Yes he did, more than once.

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The problem is happening recently. Do a search. 

For certain values of 'recently'. You may have only become aware of this issue just now, but it's been around a long time. Their system automatically tradebans you for all 'weird' mission results, not just long endurance runs. There was even a time when getting too lucky with Exploiter Orb's toroid drops getting multiplied by smeeta and booster got you smacked with the ban, though I haven't heard of that one recently. Anyway, old news.

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Doesn't work that way. Any investor settles profit goals on each company. If anyone invest money owning these companies such investor expects profit out of the investment. That is how the world works in business. 

Are you going to invest in an Architecture firm that produces even numbers in every fiscal year? Answer, no. 

 

4 hours ago, Felsagger said:

You don't know that either. 

Hmm, no, I do not. Which I believe I told you so in your Sony thread. We have no idea why Tencent is interested in Leyou. Companies get taken over for many reasons, not just for their bottom line. The ones I worked with have actually done acquisitions where the target was in the red if it made strategic sense. Because it is a start-up you believe has potential, because there are sufficient synergies between both companies to push them towards profitablility, to deny the target to your competitors, to get a foothold in a new market, to increase your market share in a market you are already active in, etc, etc. Usually you want to tick more than one box, but trust me, a strong dividend is just one of the boxes to tick.

What we do know:

In 2018 the Chinese government refused to license new games to Tencent for about half a year. This, tighter government controls on user communications and the Chinese regulators are now increasingly scrutinizing the gaming industry, has caused a serious loss in shareholder value and revenue, so putting even more focus on investments outside China makes sense. They are not doing this just in the gaming sector, but also for example in cloud storage. 'investors in Chinese tech companies should never underestimate the government’s ability to throttle their growth' to quote a famous stock analyst.

They know the market of F2P monetized games very well and currently hold the market leaders in and outside China in their portfolio. Compared to any other investor they have the home court advantage in this segment.

They are known for their hands-off and long-term strategy. They haven't squeezed or aggressively changed management nor merged studios of any of their western acquisitions. You can say 'that is not how it works' but it is well documented and you can check out their other games for yourself.

None of this is a guarantee but Tencent is no more likely to ruin Warframe than any other potential buyer, perhaps even less so.

 

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, Felsagger said:

In your dreams. Obviously that's not how it works. 

Learn to differentiate the term "all players" from the term "many players".

Many players who arrived here came from Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. They will probably migrate back. 

Besides that's one of the target of Tencent. Activision Blizard says hi. 

 

Transformers online. 

 

How far behind are you on what is going on in gaming? You claim it is "one of the targets of Tencent" to get people to play Destiny 2 cos "Activision Blizzad says hi"? Yet Destiny 2 has nothing to do with Activision Blizzard or the 5% shares of Tencent in those companies, and havent had for a long time now. Where do you get these silly ideas from?

Transformers Online was also not shut down by Tencent, it was shut down several times over in the hands of different devs studios, Tencent just tried to revive it a last time through Tencent Games. And you were supposed to name some successful game that Tencent has shut down, not something that has already failed over and over. Plus, last I checked, Tencent Games were only involved in the chinese version of Transformers Online, chinese regions second attempt, while the western port was handled by a western company prior to that, the second attempt world wide. The very first attempt was done by an independent chinese company.

[Felsagger]

12 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Tencent was an early investor and backer since riots thought of LOL did you ignore that part?

If an engineer designs a bicycle that works and shows potential then you invest few coins so such engineer/manufacturer of that bicycle finish the project. In that time you grabbed the bicycle for a ride doing few laps in the course. 

If you, as an investor, don't see any future in such bicycle you simply pick another engineer/manufacturer. What you did here? You did a test, saw potential and recognized the capability of your engineer. Investors provides money for infrastructure, fabric, robotics and employees for field testing. 

This is how any investment runs in normal conditions. The first investment happened in 2011. The game ran at least three years of testing since it started in 2009. 

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

11 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If an engineer designs a bicycle that works and shows potential then you invest few coins so such engineer/manufacturer of that bicycle finish the project. In that time you grabbed the bicycle for a ride doing few laps in the course. 

If you, as an investor, don't see any future in such bicycle you simply pick another engineer/manufacturer. What you did here? You did a test, saw potential and recognized the capability of your engineer. Investors provides money for infrastructure, fabric, robotics and employees for field testing. 

This is how any investment runs in normal conditions. The first investment happened in 2011. The game ran at least three years of testing since it started in 2009. 

But they stayed with their investment and helped out youre excusing the fact that they literally were there from the beginning with a poor analogy 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

I don’t care what the specifics are.  All I know is that DE better have SHELDON PRIME ACCESS in development RIGHT NOW, because we are going to need the stat boost if he is the player-advocate/CFO AMALGAM he appears (or purports if you are a skeptic) to be.

 

SHELDON, WE NEED A HERO!

[Felsagger]

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

Yes he did, more than once.

Well because it is a moot point. The brain behind League of Legends is Riot Games. 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

For certain values of 'recently'. You may have only become aware of this issue just now, but it's been around a long time.

Leyou came in four years ago if i'm not mistaken. And of course if such is the case then that aggravates more the situation. The heart and kernel of War Frame is the long run and the field testing of your gear. This game is basics engineering of hypothesis and testing. The player decides to assemble a theory, then such player test the viability of such theory that spouted out of his/her conjecture.  

When Warframe suffers a hit on the heart, people begins to throw in meticulous questions. The enjoyment of this game doesn't happen like the enjoyment of other games that are based on competition like League of Legends. The concept of Warframe revolves around gear testing and game play styles. If that is taken out of the formula we are left with something else. Such problem should NOT persist for that long. 

It's obvious how to detect cheaters and glitchers. And is obvious too that the game must put more robustness in some corners so cheaters and glitchers reduce in numbers. We don't need them in CoD, Destiny 2, we don't need them in any game that is online and offline. 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

Their system automatically tradebans you for all 'weird' mission results, not just long endurance runs.

Long run players and testers stopped doing long runs because that spread fear of loosing the account or getting the account bricked without the benefit of doubt. If I have seven years invested time and money in my account, it's logical that I will not bet my luck when such problem is in the grill for so long. 

Are you going to run your dices in that grill? No. No one will. 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

There was even a time when getting too lucky with Exploiter Orb's toroid drops getting multiplied by smeeta and booster got you smacked with the ban, though I haven't heard of that one recently. Anyway, old news.

Those issues are being resolved. Exploiter Orb and Profit taker are just one run that concludes with the defeat of each boss. The pool of rewards doesn't give much advantage.

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

Hmm, no, I do not. Which I believe I told you so in your Sony thread.

Sucker Punch scored an outstanding hit with Ghosts of Tsushima. Their track record continues delivering the goods. It's tempting to think that Sony provides better outcomes in terms of game quality than Tencent. The proof is constant. Their tier of developers are always on fire putting top quality out there. 

Now that Horizon Zero Dawn and Death Stranding is available for PC you can see experience why Sony's exclusives are valued so much in the market by the community. Can Tencent bake great games? Of course they can. Are they numerous like Sony's successes. No. 

Tencent is focused on gains. Sony is focused on game quality. None of the approaches are wrong. However my preference is game quality over extensive monetization. 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

We have no idea why Tencent is interested in Leyou. Companies get taken over for many reasons, not just for their bottom line. The ones I worked with have actually done acquisitions where the target was in the red if it made strategic sense. Because it is a start-up you believe has potential, because there are sufficient synergies between both companies to push them towards profitablility, to deny the target to your competitors, to get a foothold in a new market, to increase your market share in a market you are already active in, etc, etc. Usually you want to tick more than one box, but trust me, a strong dividend is just one of the boxes to tick.

Yes, Tencent purchase packages. These guys are not only interested in Warframe. However when Tencent hoard the bid is because Sony has the power to throw off Tencent offering. They purchased exclusivity. Why? There are other interest there outside of the industry of video games that we are not going to discuss here. Besides they are way too obvious, they don't want the Japanese market insertion in Chinese territory. 

If the response was a national act, I'm fine, that's perfectly understandable. Everybody will take care of their chickens in their barn. But when these Chinese guys spreads over the rest of the globe then skepticism grows. This is my personal opinion but these Chinese SHOULD NOT be all around the globe. They should have a portion of the industry not all of it. I don't want to deal with their mindset alone. We want shared visions instead of a MONOPOLY. We should learn from history. Microsoft taught us that lesson the hard way and still their monopoly is unbreakable despite all the attempts in the world. 

A global market should not be a total market. The need of different players provides diversity, comparison, healthy competition and democracy. If one company places the foot over all then such company imposes their vision, projections or ideals over the rest of their subsidiaries. The global economy should be defined as a market share not as an inidental oligarchy of few companies dictating the rules of the market, moreover when Tencent is one of the hands of China's government. 

 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

What we do know:

In 2018 the Chinese government refused to license new games to Tencent for about half a year. This, tighter government controls on user communications and the Chinese regulators are now increasingly scrutinizing the gaming industry, has caused a serious loss in shareholder value and revenue, so putting even more focus on investments outside China makes sense. They are not doing this just in the gaming sector, but also for example in cloud storage. 'investors in Chinese tech companies should never underestimate the government’s ability to throttle their growth' to quote a famous stock analyst.

The Chinese government are not run by fools. I can guarantee you that. The commercial expansion of China must have a boundary. It should not grow unbounded. I always support a diversified Asiatic market between Japan, Korea, China and Mongolia. There should be a diverse cradle for gaming instead one industry capitalizing the western lands. Enthalpy always bound entropy and vice verse. 

Nature speaks up in weird ways like this: ΔG=ΔH−TΔS.  If there is no equilibrium in the market there will be unfair competition and of course involution converging into a decrease in quality? Why this happens? The sense of innovation and improvement will be shadowed by commodity and convenience. We want a market that flows over healthy competition. We both know that the Chinese government, with all due respect, has a divergent vision on such matters. 

The multi national market grows stronger and robust when there are fit competitors measuring their skill and adaptation under changing conditions. 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

They know the market of F2P monetized games very well and currently hold the market leaders in and outside China in their portfolio. Compared to any other investor they have the home court advantage in this segment.

Remember that War Frame is not an ordinary F2P GAAS game. This game is way too tricky. Here the public opinion has weight. DE evolved because the public provided asserted assessment in the game. Warframe is a different bestiary with particular issues that no other F2P game has. Leyou understood that the case of Warframe IS NOT EASY but it possesses profitable potential. 

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

They are known for their hands-off and long-term strategy. They haven't squeezed or aggressively changed management nor merged studios of any of their western acquisitions. 

Disagree completely. There are few examples out there. 

Sorry but your excessive defense proves that somehow you have fear for what other people would say. Remember you don't have a horse in this competition, you don't have a hamster in the roulette and you don't have shares in this company. 

There will be doubt and such doubt will be tested. People are aware that Tencent IS NOT a saint of their devotion as I said many times before. If they want to come clean they have to deliver a clean result. 

If we see a harsher increase in monetization, harsher probability drop chance table and meddling with the economy of Warframe. I will be here writing "I TOLD YOU SO". I don't want to type it. It would be preferable an increase in quality for War Frame. 

How this situation can convince many of us?

1. Increase in level of polish and play testing of the game. 

2. Keep the economy of the game as is and increase interest in the IP without putting pressure in DE. 

3. Help DE expand their atelier with more employees and structure better their pipe lining for the game itself. 

4. On the game: make more robust the coding for the engine. Hire software engineers when needed for further development of the graphic engine. More single player quests, campaigns and focus towards a team oriented game instead of only a co-op game. Reward skill and reward skillful players who stays 12 hours challenging the game mechanics. Learn from these players how to make the game better and listen more often to the community who asks for a better game. 

If we see this then we can speak positively about Tencent. only then...

6 hours ago, Angwah said:

None of this is a guarantee but Tencent is no more likely to ruin Warframe than any other potential buyer, perhaps even less so.

If Tencent goes in full greed, this game is done. Plain and simple. At least we can call the shot before it happens. That's why we are gathered here hitting letter keys every morning. We have to inspect exhaustively the evolution of their behavior. 

If Tencent runs amok, we all lose. DE has their hands tight, for better or worse. 

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But they stayed with their investment and helped out youre excusing the fact that they literally were there from the beginning with a poor analogy 

Typical trolling. You can't come up with an answer. Noted. 

A developer of a product is the one that deserves the recognition instead of the baker. The baker came at a later time when there where positive results. No one bakes a project without results. Riot game developed their concept alone. The Asian market got interested. That how such event happened. 

[Felsagger]

50 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

I don’t care what the specifics are.  All I know is that DE better have SHELDON PRIME ACCESS in development RIGHT NOW, because we are going to need the stat boost if he is the player-advocate/CFO AMALGAM he appears (or purports if you are a skeptic) to be.

 

SHELDON, WE NEED A HERO!

I think that James Schmalz must have a say in all this. 

 

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How far behind are you on what is going on in gaming?

As if you knew better. 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You claim it is "one of the targets of Tencent" to get people to play Destiny 2 cos "Activision Blizzad says hi"? Yet Destiny 2 has nothing to do with Activision Blizzard or the 5% shares of Tencent in those companies, and havent had for a long time now. Where do you get these silly ideas from?

 

I said: "Learn to differentiate the term "all players" from the term "many players".

Many players who arrived here came from Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. They will probably migrate back. 

Besides that's one of the target of Tencent. Activision Blizard says hi. "

These are two different ideas. 

I recommend you learn how to use your google translator.

translate.google.com 

If you have problems with the meaning of the word besides.

Here is the meaning: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/besides

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

Transformers Online was also not shut down by Tencent, it was shut down several times over in the hands of different devs studios, Tencent just tried to revive it a last time through Tencent Games. And you were supposed to name some successful game that Tencent has shut down, not something that has already failed over and over. Plus, last I checked, Tencent Games were only involved in the chinese version of Transformers Online, chinese regions second attempt, while the western port was handled by a western company prior to that, the second attempt world wide. The very first attempt was done by an independent chinese company.

False. 

https://www.thesixthaxis.com/2019/12/18/transformers-online-certain-affinity-tencent-g1-ps4-xb1-pc/

https://news.tfw2005.com/2019/12/17/transformers-online-by-tencent-games-is-shutting-down-402586#:~:text=Bad news for Chinese Transformers fans.&text=According to the Tencent Games,user starting November 14%2C 2019.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

As if you knew better. 

 

I said: "Learn to differentiate the term "all players" from the term "many players".

Many players who arrived here came from Destiny 1 and Destiny 2. They will probably migrate back. 

Besides that's one of the target of Tencent. Activision Blizard says hi. "

These are two different ideas. 

I recommend you learn how to use your google translator.

translate.google.com 

If you have problems with the meaning of the word besides.

Here is the meaning: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/besides

 

False. 

https://www.thesixthaxis.com/2019/12/18/transformers-online-certain-affinity-tencent-g1-ps4-xb1-pc/

https://news.tfw2005.com/2019/12/17/transformers-online-by-tencent-games-is-shutting-down-402586#:~:text=Bad news for Chinese Transformers fans.&text=According to the Tencent Games,user starting November 14%2C 2019.

And the way you type implies Tencent's target is to get people to play Destiny 2. You have extremely poor sentence structure if you try to say anything else with the sentences "Besides that's one of the target of Tencent. Activision Blizzard says hi.".

Maybe you should read all about the Transformers Online thing. It got shelved in 2012 already by Netdragon, 5 years before Certain Affinity's Version. Certain Affinity itself also has no connection to Tencent. We also dont know if Tencent's version is the same as Netdragon's, the version now possibly being worked on by Certain Affinity which hasnt been released yet. We dont even know if it is currently 3 completely seperate games, or if Tencent aswell as Certain Affinity have picked up the rights to create their two different versions (chinese aswell as western) of the original developed by Netdragon.

We do however know that neither Certain Affinity nor Netdragon have any connections to Tencent and we know Tencent Games developed the Transformers that was aimed at the chinese market, which recently got shut down. So Tencent's TO has been a Tencent game from the very beginning. So again, what popular game have they changed alot in or shut down since taking it over?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

3 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Typical trolling. You can't come up with an answer. Noted. 

A developer of a product is the one that deserves the recognition instead of the baker. The baker came at a later time when there where positive results. No one bakes a project without results. Riot game developed their concept alone. The Asian market got interested. That how such event happened. 

A developer of a product does deserve credit. But ignoring the fact that they supported riot from the beginning because they went a major part of the investment then makes no sense. They produced some sort of Product that tencent has faith in and out down an initial investment like many other companies.

and also site how you know this is fact. As A Developer this field with money and having worked on actual products with friends and coworkers you’re kinda wrong in this little one

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

And the way you type implies Tencent's target is to get people to play Destiny 2. You have extremely poor sentence structure if you try to say anything else with the sentences "Besides that's one of the target of Tencent. Activision Blizzard says hi.".

Maybe you should read all about the Transformers Online thing. It got shelved in 2012 already by Netdragon, 5 years before Certain Affinity's Version. Certain Affinity itself also has no connection to Tencent. We also dont know if Tencent's version is the same as Netdragon's, the version now possibly being worked on by Certain Affinity which hasnt been released yet. We dont even know if it is currently 3 completely seperate games, or if Tencent aswell as Certain Affinity have picked up the rights to create their two different versions (chinese aswell as western) of the original developed by Netdragon.

We do however know that neither Certain Affinity nor Netdragon have any connections to Tencent and we know Tencent Games developed the Transformers that was aimed at the chinese market, which recently got shut down. So Tencent's TO has been a Tencent game from the very beginning. So again, what popular game have they changed alot in or shut down since taking it over?

Let’s leave it alone lmao. Let’s wait and see like he said 

[Felsagger]

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And the way you type implies Tencent's target is to get people to play Destiny 2.

The punctuation of those two sentences differentiates the ideas. 

If you have problems understanding the grammar structure of English and the parts of a sentence these books may help. 

This is the Oxford guide to English Grammar. 

https://www.uop.edu.jo/download/research/members/oxford_guide_to_english_grammar.pdf

This is a free book that teaches you about the sentence structure in English. 

https://www.academia.edu/33143516/Introduction_to_english_sentence_structure

I use these books as reference for essay writing and other academic work. 

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

You have extremely poor sentence structure if you try to say anything else with the sentences "Besides that's one of the target of Tencent. Activision Blizzard says hi.".

I recommended you two books about grammar. However I can't teach you how to use your brain. That's something you have to put effort discerning between ideas. Common sense says that Destiny 2 and Tencent have nothing in common. Such subjects are unrelated. 

Make use of your brain and don't blame on others your misunderstandings of ideas. I take my time reading. You should take your time too. 

7 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe you should read all about the Transformers Online thing. It got shelved in 2012 already by Netdragon, 5 years before Certain Affinity's Version. Certain Affinity itself also has no connection to Tencent. We also dont know if Tencent's version is the same as Netdragon's, the version now possibly being worked on by Certain Affinity which hasnt been released yet. We dont even know if it is currently 3 completely seperate games, or if Tencent aswell as Certain Affinity have picked up the rights to create their two different versions (chinese aswell as western) of the original developed by Netdragon.

We do however know that neither Certain Affinity nor Netdragon have any connections to Tencent and we know Tencent Games developed the Transformers that was aimed at the chinese market, which recently got shut down. So Tencent's TO has been a Tencent game from the very beginning. So again, what popular game have they changed alot in or shut down since taking it over?

Irrelevant. 

This proves me that you are not reading the content on the provided links. 

"According to the Tencent Games Website the game will be completely shut down on Febrary 13, 2020. but it won't be able to register as a new user starting November 14, 2019"

Do I need to say more? 

 

[Felsagger]

6 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

A developer of a product does deserve credit. But ignoring the fact that they supported riot from the beginning because they went a major part of the investment then makes no sense. They produced some sort of Product that tencent has faith in and out down an initial investment like many other companies.

and also site how you know this is fact. As A Developer this field with money and having worked on actual products with friends and coworkers you’re kinda wrong in this little one

This happens when you do not read. 

 False. They where not supported from the beginning. 

Initial release date: October 27, 2009

Genre: Multiplayer online battle arena

Developers: Riot Games, Airship Syndicate

Designers: Steve Feak, Tom Cadwell, Christina Norman, Mark Yetter, Rob Garrett, David Capurro

Platforms: Microsoft Windows, macOS, Classic Mac OS, Macintosh operating systems

Publishers: Riot Games, Garena

Do you see Tencent in all of that? NO. 

2010	1st Game Developers Online Choice Awards	Best Online Technology, Visual Arts, Game Design, New Online Game, Audience Award	Won	[108]
	Golden Joystick Awards 2010	Online Game of the Year	Won	[109]
2011	Golden Joystick Awards 2011	Best Free-to-Play Game	Won	[110]

Tencent started acquiring Riot games in 2011. 

 

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

3 hours ago, Felsagger said:

 False. They where not supported from the beginning. 

idk. Tencent was an early investor in LoL

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/riot-games-secures-USD8-million-investment

to quote the first sentence “Riot Games has secured investment of USD 8 million from venture capital firms Benchmark Capital, FirstMark Capital and the Chinese online services company Tencent.“

Article is from September of 2009 btw