Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)

[Felsagger]

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And that can take up to around a year when such big deals are made. And then after that it is up to Leyou, Tencent or whoever will be the parent of DE to decide who brings the news. We dont even know who DE will be the direct subsidiary of. As it currently is, all financial info comes directly from the parent, we dont get annual reports from DE etc. So expecting DE to talk about a deal that isnt made through them directly is pretty damn far fetched.

They really have no obligation to tell us about their business since we arent shareholders.

Even if DE doesn't have a say in all this, at least they should tell us what will this mean for them and War Frame. 

[Kconvey]

Here is why its going to be a destructive change.

The viewpoint of the majority of players is selling to Tencent is bad, therefore players who were going to make purchases will likely not make them because they fear the game going downhill into a mictrotrasanction lootbox mess.

This will cause DE revenue's to tank and tank hard, this will cause Tencent to be that much more aggressive with monetization.

THe only way to avoid this is for TENCENT, not warframe , not DE to say in a public announcement they are not going to aggressively monetize. They of course wont do this, so things will happen like this and there is no real way to avoid it.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

4 hours ago, Kconvey said:

THe only way to avoid this is for TENCENT, not warframe , not DE to say in a public announcement they are not going to aggressively monetize.

You are right in several areas, but for myself personally, I don't even care if Tencent does everything right with Warframe. I will not support that company, ever.

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You are right in several areas, but for myself personally, I don't even care if Tencent does everything right with Warframe. I will not support that company, ever.

True. It's highly unlikely for that company do things right by the book. No wait, it's expected and very likely seeing monetization and heavy pay walls with them. It would be a miracle if War Frame survives through it. I'm sure that such impact will start after the launch on the PS5 and Xbox Series X. Anyone who invests that much at least expect a return in their banks. No one buys or bid that high at a loss. 

[DrivaMain]

9 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Even if DE doesn't have a say in all this, at least they should tell us what will this mean for them and War Frame. 

They can't because the announcement forbids any part of Leyou and Tencent to discuss any details regarding the deal publicly until it is final. Yes waiting can be irritating, but it is the only option we have now.

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

They can't because the announcement forbids any part of Leyou and Tencent to discuss any details regarding the deal publicly until it is final. Yes waiting can be irritating, but it is the only option we have now.

At this point, would be surprising if DE says something about it. I'm sure they can't say anything about what is going on inside the basket. We are not supposed to know either but here we are reading and talking about the subject. Information like this are kept tight lipped for many reasons. There are lots of speculation about it but when a company like that makes a hoarding move blocking other bidders that could potentially spell trouble for the clients in the franchise. Such company doesn't have the best reputation in the market with the clients of these games. 

DE will never ever talk or mention such sensitive topic. This can throw a big portion of costumers off the loop in this GAAS F2P game. Tencent proved useful with the management of League of Legends, a game that was designed with micro transactions in mind from the beginning. War Frame is a different creature that depends between the dynamics of the developer, PR team and the community here on the forums. The way such market behaved had three components for the success of the game. I am very skeptic about the future of this game and Tencent. The whole game itself may be an economical success but the game quality and the amount of pay walls can ruin the veterans that lurked in it for these seven years. 

Yes, all of these expectations are concerns, nothing more. But when a company bids aggressively and closes the bid for other competitions then you can expect the worse. At least such bid will force the competitors submit proposals so some comparisons of pros and cons works. However that's not the reality of such bids. These bids are driven by economical reasons not quality control reasons in my opinion. Besides we are not supposed to know this however it can potentially affects us directly. That's the irony of it. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

Ultimately, what I want to know is FOUR key things:

1.  Will the culture of what made Warframe the surprise world-wide success story of the last decade survive?  Will the DE family still truly fight for it as their Tennocon “From the Heart” theme suggests and will it be enough vs the Monetization juggernaut that people fear will ruin the game for a 5-7% jump in revenue for 6-12-24 months?

I know how hard the DE team works/has worked and how the culture of being “gamers who make the game” along with that “people first” mindset in the Midwest has influenced the artistry and gameplay and community bond. 

2.  Is Tencent in any way going to invest in the talent to raise the quality of the game to increase revenues or is this all on Sheldon and the “CFO” side to generate more money with the same or less?

3.  Is any of this going to involve improving infrastructure, production standards, and QC from an Operations standpoint so DE/Warframe doesn’t become a victim to the limitations on current telework via the pandemic?  Companies who adapt quickest will actually have a LEG UP on the competition.

4.  Does the core Team still have the heart to fight to retain the creative universe that is the story and gameplay and do they ACTUALLY have creative control to the extent they say?

You can see the intimate, family aspect of the entire team.  Growth and increased money and fatigue can be a powerful combination, and you just wonder if a point is coming where the team decides that Warframe’s journey for what it originally was as a property is over and it’s time to rest and reap the benefits/financial rewards of said journey and let someone else take the reigns.

I wouldn’t blame them if this happened, though it’s not what I want.

Fin.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Even if DE doesn't have a say in all this, at least they should tell us what will this mean for them and War Frame. 

But they just cant. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

And you claim Tencent has "blocked" other bidders. No, they've gone into exlusive negotioations with Leyou which means that they are currently in a serious bidding process focused on pinpointing more specific terms. 

Tencent does have a pretty good reputation in the market though, since both LoL and PoE shows that clearly. Even with the up and down trend of PoE, Tencent still doesnt meddle to make it have a more consistant player number. Which means they understand the nature of F2P GAAS games well and know what to expect. And that is a game where new league releases have at times failed to bring a considerable amount of players back. This because GGG go with a similar mindset of DE, which is to experiment alot in a genre that is already well established. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, sometime you strike success like with Delve, other times you hit rock bottom with a thing such as Syndicates (not to be confused with WF syndicates).

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

But they just cant. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

"At this point, would be surprising if DE says something about it. "

Pay attention to the board.  

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

And you claim Tencent has "blocked" other bidders. No, they've gone into exlusive negotioations with Leyou which means that they are currently in a serious bidding process focused on pinpointing more specific terms. 

I'm not claiming that. This article does. 

"https://www.newsbreak.com/news/0PZqCS4X/sony-becomes-the-latest-company-to-bid-for-leyou-decision-could-come-soon-updated"

"It looks like Tencent has procured an exclusive window to negotiate for the acquisition of Leyou. According to this press release from Leyou, Tencent has three months to finalize a deal with Leyou's controlling shareholder CHarles Yuk to acquire and privatize the company and its subsidiaries, including Digital Extremes and Athlon Games."

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Tencent does have a pretty good reputation in the market though, since both LoL and PoE shows that clearly. Even with the up and down trend of PoE, Tencent still doesnt meddle to make it have a more consistant player number. Which means they understand the nature of F2P GAAS games well and know what to expect. And that is a game where new league releases have at times failed to bring a considerable amount of players back. This because GGG go with a similar mindset of DE, which is to experiment alot in a genre that is already well established. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, sometime you strike success like with Delve, other times you hit rock bottom with a thing such as Syndicates (not to be confused with WF syndicates).

That's another discussion. 

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

21 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But they just cant. What is so hard to understand about that concept?

And you claim Tencent has "blocked" other bidders. No, they've gone into exlusive negotioations with Leyou which means that they are currently in a serious bidding process focused on pinpointing more specific terms. 

Tencent does have a pretty good reputation in the market though, since both LoL and PoE shows that clearly. Even with the up and down trend of PoE, Tencent still doesnt meddle to make it have a more consistant player number. Which means they understand the nature of F2P GAAS games well and know what to expect. And that is a game where new league releases have at times failed to bring a considerable amount of players back. This because GGG go with a similar mindset of DE, which is to experiment alot in a genre that is already well established. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt, sometime you strike success like with Delve, other times you hit rock bottom with a thing such as Syndicates (not to be confused with WF syndicates).

Unfortunately, even without NDAs, we cannot know Tencent’s mindset when it comes to DE:

Valuable, hands-off successful/profitable property or in need of hands-on changes to improve revenue performance?

 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Felsagger said:

"At this point, would be surprising if DE says something about it. "

Pay attention to the board.  

I'm not claiming that. This article does. 

"https://www.newsbreak.com/news/0PZqCS4X/sony-becomes-the-latest-company-to-bid-for-leyou-decision-could-come-soon-updated"

"It looks like Tencent has procured an exclusive window to negotiate for the acquisition of Leyou. According to this press release from Leyou, Tencent has three months to finalize a deal with Leyou's controlling shareholder CHarles Yuk to acquire and privatize the company and its subsidiaries, including Digital Extremes and Athlon Games."

That's another discussion. 

 

They arent blocking anyone though. It is Leyou who have decided on this since it is probably the most serious offer and want to get into details regarding agreements. It is also interesting that the articles emphasizes "privatize" regarding the company and subsids.

If it is another discussion why did you start it by making bold claims?

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Unfortunately, even without NDAs, we cannot know Tencent’s mindset when it comes to DE:

Valuable, hands-off successful/profitable property or in need of hands-on changes to improve revenue performance?

 

They are an investor/holding company, hands off is the intended approach for those types of companies. 

 

[OniDax]

58 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Ultimately, what I want to know is FOUR key things:

1.  Will the culture of what made Warframe the surprise world-wide success story of the last decade survive?  Will the DE family still truly fight for it as their Tennocon “From the Heart” theme suggests and will it be enough vs the Monetization juggernaut that people fear will ruin the game for a 5-7% jump in revenue for 6-12-24 months?

I know how hard the DE team works/has worked and how the culture of being “gamers who make the game” along with that “people first” mindset in the Midwest has influenced the artistry and gameplay and community bond. 

What? "Warframe the surprise world-wide success story of the last decade". You serious? I think you're overstating Warframe's acclaim and impact. I also disagree that it is somehow a culture that made Warframe successful. It's Warframe's appealing concept created by DE that drew in players and players supporting the game that made Warframe successful, despite its many shortcomings. I also don't understand the view that the devs are "gamers who make the game" when we know they don't spend time playing their own game. We know this.

Also, "'people first' mindset in the Midwest?" Like, where does that even come from? They're in the Eastern Time Zone. I mean, I get that it might sound good to say, but that's a bunch of nonsense.

58 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

2.  Is Tencent in any way going to invest in the talent to raise the quality of the game to increase revenues or is this all on Sheldon and the “CFO” side to generate more money with the same or less?

3.  Is any of this going to involve improving infrastructure, production standards, and QC from an Operations standpoint so DE/Warframe doesn’t become a victim to the limitations on current telework via the pandemic?  Companies who adapt quickest will actually have a LEG UP on the competition.

4.  Does the core Team still have the heart to fight to retain the creative universe that is the story and gameplay and do they ACTUALLY have creative control to the extent they say?

You can see the intimate, family aspect of the entire team.  Growth and increased money and fatigue can be a powerful combination, and you just wonder if a point is coming where the team decides that Warframe’s journey for what it originally was as a property is over and it’s time to rest and reap the benefits/financial rewards of said journey and let someone else take the reigns.

I wouldn’t blame them if this happened, though it’s not what I want.

Fin.

Regardless of who owns Digital Extremes, 2 and 3 are what I want a new publisher/investor to bring to Warframe: new talent, increased quality, improved production standards and infrastructure, so that Digital Extremes and Warframe can be the best that they can be (and so that they can be a worldwide success story, something I wouldn't consider them to be right now).

As for 4, I hope they have the heart to fight for their game. I've kinda felt they haven't had too much heart with regards to the story (it's so inconsistent that it seems they don't care that much about it), but I hope Tencent (or whoever gets them if Tencent backs out) allows them to retain creative control and will foster an environment where DE is allowed, encouraged, and empowered to put their all into the game. I hope they'll also encourage and empower them to acquire new talent to make the story and gameplay better.

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

They arent blocking anyone though. It is Leyou who have decided on this since it is probably the most serious offer and want to get into details regarding agreements. It is also interesting that the articles emphasizes "privatize" regarding the company and subsids.

"Tencent has procured an exclusive window to negotiate"

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

If it is another discussion why did you start it by making bold claims?

The portion that you quoted on my post doesn't address that point, hence that's another discussion. 

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, OniDax said:

What? "Warframe the surprise world-wide success story of the last decade". You serious? I think you're overstating Warframe's acclaim and impact. I also disagree that it is somehow a culture that made Warframe successful. It's Warframe's appealing concept created by DE that drew in players and players supporting the game that made Warframe successful, despite its many shortcomings. I also don't understand the view that the devs are "gamers who make the game" when we know they don't spend time playing their own game. We know this.

Pretty much. 

War Frame has the parkour system, the speed and the hopping bunny traversing and the aerial combos. If we see Overwatch, Kephrii Widowmaker does acrobatics with aerial shots. In Warframe people can do that extensively. 

The play mechanics of War Frame IS the success of the game. It made the game unique and fast. Even games like Doom Eternal are influenced by War Frame play mechanics. 

11 minutes ago, OniDax said:

 

Regardless of who owns Digital Extremes, 2 and 3 are what I want a new publisher/investor to bring to Warframe: new talent, increased quality, improved production standards and infrastructure, so that Digital Extremes and Warframe can be the best that they can be (and so that they can be a worldwide success story, something I wouldn't consider them to be right now).

If Tencent do this I'll be perfectly fine with them. 

DE needs a wider 'toolkit' of people, equipment and writers for the realization of this game. DE must grow because the game outgrew them. The game became a beast that requires management and lots of specialists in different areas. 

11 minutes ago, OniDax said:

As for 4, I hope they have the heart to fight for their game. I've kinda felt they haven't had too much heart with regards to the story (it's so inconsistent that it seems they don't care that much about it), but I hope Tencent (or whoever gets them if Tencent backs out) allows them to retain creative control and will foster an environment where DE is allowed, encouraged, and empowered to put their all into the game. I hope they'll also encourage and empower them to acquire new talent to make the story and gameplay better.

That's all what we want on the long run. 

This is a good post. 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

10 minutes ago, OniDax said:

What? "Warframe the surprise world-wide success story of the last decade". You serious? I think you're overstating Warframe's acclaim and impact. I also disagree that it is somehow a culture that made Warframe successful. It's Warframe's appealing concept created by DE that drew in players and players supporting the game that made Warframe successful, despite its many shortcomings. I also don't understand the view that the devs are "gamers who make the game" when we know they don't spend time playing their own game. We know this.

Also, "'people first' mindset in the Midwest?" Like, where does that even come from? They're in the Eastern Time Zone. I mean, I get that it might sound good to say, but that's a bunch of nonsense.

Regardless of who owns Digital Extremes, 2 and 3 are what I want a new publisher/investor to bring to Warframe: new talent, increased quality, improved production standards and infrastructure, so that Digital Extremes and Warframe can be the best that they can be (and so that they can be a worldwide success story, something I wouldn't consider them to be right now).

As for 4, I hope they have the heart to fight for their game. I've kinda felt they haven't had too much heart with regards to the story (it's so inconsistent that it seems they don't care that much about it), but I hope Tencent (or whoever gets them if Tencent backs out) allows them to retain creative control and will foster an environment where DE is allowed, encouraged, and empowered to put their all into the game. I hope they'll also encourage and empower them to acquire new talent to make the story and gameplay better.

The Midwestern mindset of “people first” isn’t limited to an imaginary line designating a “timezone” or split between Canada/US.  It’s a real thing.  Sorry if it confuses you.  If you’ve ever been a part of it, or never been a part of it and then met people ingrained with it,  you see it’s influence.

Some studio execs worry about their bonus while lay-offs of staffers occur en masse.

Others worry how they are going to make payroll so local employees who live in the community will be able to feed their families.

Steve talked about this in a DE documentary.

[Felsagger]

I do agree with the mindset "People first". 

100%

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

"Tencent has procured an exclusive window to negotiate"

The portion that you quoted on my post doesn't address that point, hence that's another discussion. 

Which is still Leyou's choice. Blocking would imply it was done at the decision of Tencent, which it isnt. They are simply the most interesting and "serious" bidder atm, so the seller saw it fit to get into deeper negotiations and planning. Leyou has blocked other bidders, since it was their choice.

Sure it adressed your points, it proved the opposite of what you claimed in one of your posts. Or cant you remember what you've written previously so everything needs to be re-quoted?

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, OniDax said:

As for 4, I hope they have the heart to fight for their game. I've kinda felt they haven't had too much heart with regards to the story (it's so inconsistent that it seems they don't care that much about it), but I hope Tencent (or whoever gets them if Tencent backs out) allows them to retain creative control and will foster an environment where DE is allowed, encouraged, and empowered to put their all into the game. I hope they'll also encourage and empower them to acquire new talent to make the story and gameplay better.

It is not up to Tencent or any other to allow them to retain creative control, since whoever Leyou sells to, they still cant sell what isnt theirs to begin with. Whoever buys Leyou would need to engage in individual purchase agreements with all subsidiaries if they want to obtain the creative control that currently resides with the studios under Leyou. Leyou cannot sell those rights because they do not own them.

Go read up on subsidiaries, parent companies, holding companies, conglomerates and so on before you start to worry about stuff that will never have a chance to happen, unless DE directly decides to give up creative rights/control of their IP that is. None of what you actually talk about up top are things that will happen, unless DE directly wants it and asks for it from the parent. They are in the end independent companies with different potential, seperate taxation, seperate ways to solve economical issues, lawsuits etc. The parent is simply there as a solution if funding is needed, while the subsid is there as a constant passive revenue generator for the parent. Kinda like an insurance, you pay annualy incase something were to happen in the future.

[Loza03]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Unfortunately, even without NDAs, we cannot know Tencent’s mindset when it comes to DE:

Valuable, hands-off successful/profitable property or in need of hands-on changes to improve revenue performance?

 

Even assuming the latter, we don't know what hands-on changes they'd think need making. Changes to the monetisation model? Core gameplay loop? DE's management and marketing strategies? Tencent is vast, and that means that what we get might be different to other games.

 

Nevertheless, I stick  by my original conclusion - the best and worst case scenarios are the same, no matter who buys Leyou. Any big company has the chance of behaving like an evil dictator, and every big company has the chance of being just what a game needs to reach new heights of greatness. All that changes from one to another is the likelihood of each.

[Alundil55]

Leyou, as a company based in HK, was in an ok spot until the world gave up on protecting the people of HK from the CCP. At this point, with Leyou likely selling to Tencent (CCP) there's zero likelihood that I'll spend another dollar on Warframe. I can't control where all of my money goes, and I can't always choose to spend money that won't go, ultimately, to a company beholden to the CCP. But, my "entertainment money", if this happens, definitely won't be going to DE>Tencent>CCP. That sucks for the people who work for DE, to be certain. But the ideology of the CCP sucks more for all people not desirous of a government "disappearing" entire populations of people or one whose critics have an uncannily high rate of "accidents."

So long tenno. Mind what you say going forward from here.

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Which is still Leyou's choice. Blocking would imply it was done at the decision of Tencent, which it isnt. They are simply the most interesting and "serious" bidder atm, so the seller saw it fit to get into deeper negotiations and planning. Leyou has blocked other bidders, since it was their choice.

"But when a company bids aggressively and closes the bid for other competitions then you can expect the worse." 

"Leyou Signs Exclusive Agreement with Tencent Regarding the Company’s Acquisition"

https://wccftech.com/leyou-signs-exclusive-agreement-with-tencent-regarding-the-companys-acquisition/

Tencent hoarded it. They are not going to let other bidder grabs it. The article was about that. 

Pay attention to the board. 

 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sure it adressed your points, it proved the opposite of what you claimed in one of your posts. Or cant you remember what you've written previously so everything needs to be re-quoted?

You don't read the board. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

"But when a company bids aggressively and closes the bid for other competitions then you can expect the worse." 

"Leyou Signs Exclusive Agreement with Tencent Regarding the Company’s Acquisition"

https://wccftech.com/leyou-signs-exclusive-agreement-with-tencent-regarding-the-companys-acquisition/

Tencent hoarded it. They are not going to let other bidder grabs it. The article was about that. 

Pay attention to the board. 

 

You don't read the board. 

"Tencent hoarded it. They are not going to let other bidder grabs it." Seriously man, get some clues. This is not a decision that Tencent can make, it is a decision made by Leyou. They accepted it yet you try to scew it to make it sound like Tencent forced themselves upon Leyou. Your lawn must soon be nothing but dirt. Hope you arent a sheep farmer, cos those poor animals will go starving since you grab all them straws.

I do read "the board", you keep making things up with no facts to back them up.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Alundil55 said:

Leyou, as a company based in HK, was in an ok spot until the world gave up on protecting the people of HK from the CCP. At this point, with Leyou likely selling to Tencent (CCP) there's zero likelihood that I'll spend another dollar on Warframe. I can't control where all of my money goes, and I can't always choose to spend money that won't go, ultimately, to a company beholden to the CCP. But, my "entertainment money", if this happens, definitely won't be going to DE>Tencent>CCP. That sucks for the people who work for DE, to be certain. But the ideology of the CCP sucks more for all people not desirous of a government "disappearing" entire populations of people or one whose critics have an uncannily high rate of "accidents."

So long tenno. Mind what you say going forward from here.

You're aware that you'll do more harm to canadian citizens than you'll do to the CCP right? Only parts of the revenue goes to the parent, while the massive amount that goes to DE also goes to charity and other things within Canada. If this was all about chinese companies I'd get it, but that isnt the case since the studio is canadian, pays taxes in Canada and so on.

I hope you dont use Spotify either if you feel this stringly about a chinese company being involved. You should also likely avoid any Blizzard, Ubisoft and Epic games and even certain Square Enix games.

[Felsagger]

35 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

"Tencent hoarded it. They are not going to let other bidder grabs it." Seriously man, get some clues. This is not a decision that Tencent can make

True, they can't make that decision. However when Leyou accepted the bid Tencent submitted a proposal of exclusivity.  Leyou agreement on such exclusivity.  

Hence hoarding. 

Quote

, it is a decision made by Leyou. They accepted it yet you try to scew it to make it sound like Tencent forced themselves upon Leyou.

Pay attention to the board. You are misinterpreting again. 

Quote

Your lawn must soon be nothing but dirt. Hope you arent a sheep farmer, cos those poor animals will go starving since you grab all them straws.

Retort as much you want. If you do not understand what is written, simply ask. You are putting words on my mouth because you deform the content with your miss interpretations. 

Quote

I do read "the board", you keep making things up with no facts to back them up.

I'm providing always the data. With all honesty you have learning disability barriers. Obviously I will not make fun of that because ableism is awful. I'm not that type of individual. With all do respect I think that you put a lot of effort writing all of this. The data is everywhere. Tencent suggested and Leyou accepted. Of course Tencent can't be imperative. It must be a mutual agreement. Hence Tencent hoarded it. 

"Tencent is in exclusive talks to acquire Leyou Technologies, the Hong Kong-based company announced.

It was previously reported that Sony Corporation was weighing a bid to purchase the company, which owns Warframe developer Digital Extremes and Gears Tactics developer Splash Damage, as well as the Los Angeles-based publishing label Athlon Games.

Now, as per the exclusivity agreement, Tencent is the only company that can negotiate with Leyou Technologies regarding a possible acquisition and privatization of the company for the next three months."