Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Because they were not involved at that point? 

They were and I blatantly showed you that they were and you still maintained even after the evidence was put right in front of your face that "oh they're not the main shareholder of iDreamSky". You just try to save face however you can when someone shows you actual proof that you are wrong.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

This is in fact proven now by Tencent now stepping in and making a bid of their own?

They always had a bid through iDreamSky. Stop acting like you always knew Tencent were in the run for Leyou, because all I need to do, is go back a few pages and show this absolute gem of assured righteous smugness;

Right here, you acted like a complete know it all when in fact you didn't do proper research and so you mistakenly stuck your neck out and acted like Tencent were never involved at all, when they very clearly were. You really need to rain-in that smug self-superiority.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Their top 10 shareholders and how much they own is public domain as is where they are incorporated, namely the Cayman Islands. As are their tensions with the government and being hurt by the various bans. At one point they didn't get any license for over 6 months. So much for those close ties.

Honestly, do you really think that just because they are incorporated in a different location, the shareholders are public and company looses money over the CCP censors that suddenly means they don't have close ties?

It's amazing that you deny their ties even in the face of blatant censorship and user data being relayed by the company to the CCP and the infamous reputation they have across the internet. But no, it must be some crazy conspiracy theory on the same line as flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers because why on earth would a company whose bottom-line suffers still maintain close ties to a totalitarian dictatorship that makes people "disappear" when they don't agree with their policies. How far-fetched it must be to fathom that they maintain close ties because the company started within China, grew with China, is one of if not the biggest tech company in China and therefore is under the scrutiny of the CCP and profits don't matter when it means the ruling party could be questioned.

Yes it's just all the work of moron conspiracy theorists, because the CCP is such a moderate and tolerant party that accepts different views from all walks of life and takes criticism on the nose with a hearty good-natured laugh.

Tencent is a Chinese company, whose main ties are with the CCP. 

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Again, just the Great Chinese Firewall at work, and not the work of any single company.

Never said it was just a single company, don't know where you got that from. Tencent is one of the biggest tech companies and the one the CCP subsequently uses most frequently to censor both at home and abroad.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

The CCP may be an oppressive regime, but that does not make the Chinese people or doing business there 'evil'. 

Again, where did I say the Chinese people were evil? No-where. The government is evil, not the people. There is a difference. 

People who try to link dislike of a system of government to a race are incredibly disingenuous.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

verified, objective reality in favor of feverish conspiracy theories is what I compared to anti-vaxxers and flat-earthers

You have verified nothing. All you've done is stated how many different shareholders Tencent has outside of China, stated that you do not believe a company with different shareholders and whose bottom line suffers under a certain government, could ever have close ties to said government, as if somehow you don't know how Tencents history and how involved they are with the CCP. Once again, you place genuine concerns on the same line as crackhead morons based on absolutely nothing, but your own self-righteousness.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

As you well know as this is not the first time you attempt to put words in my mouth.

I put no words in your mouth at all. You are blatantly saying that you do not believe that Tencent has close ties to the CCP, despite the fact they are infamous for it across the internet (India has also officially listed Tencent as having ties to the PLA as well) and the fact that multiple other Chinese tech companies such as Huawei and apps like TikTok are being heavily scrutinised/banned across the world due to security concerns. You don't think those other companies are heavily censored and thus their bottom line is hurt as well? They still have provably close ties to the CCP though, as profit is not the CCPs main concern, control is.

And you put all of these genuine concerns in the same category as the morons who deny the earth is round, simply because you can't fathom the idea that companies will happily take a loss in order to not provoke the CCP.

1 hour ago, Angwah said:

Bemoan the fact as much as you wish, but unless you top consuming altogether and go live in a cave, a portion of your money will always flow those places.

See, this is exactly what I mean when I pointed out that you are essentially saying "I wash my hands of the whole affair, the whole world is full of S#&$e so either suck it up or go live in a cave". A complete complacent attitude and one that will never, ever make changes. If everyone just looked around them and went "well the world is rubbish, so whats the point", then we would never have even bothered leaving the damn caves in the first place.

2 hours ago, Angwah said:

And how on earth do you come to the conclusion that I want anyone to feel sorry for Tencent?

Because you are campaigning so very hard to make it out like Tencent is a good company that gets such a bad rep for over-exaggerated reasons. That's why.

2 hours ago, Angwah said:

All I am debunking here is that they are the extension of the CCP, or in any way or shape responsible for the policies of the Chinese government, but subject to them like everyone else who operates or lives in that country.

You've debunked the absolute square-root of nothing here. All you have done is scoff and act incredulous to the things being said and gone "Oh how could that possibly be the case".

Tencent are subject to the CCPs regime, but how on earth does that suddenly mean they are not an extension of it either. You do know what the word totalitarian means right?

[Felsagger]

GodofWifi,

You must realize by now that Angwah is completely biased. 

I will add more. I would like to see a parent company that IS NOT Sony and TENCENT. I would like to see a PARTNERSHIP between a parent company and DE so DE behave without pressures and goals. Even if DE slacks on some areas the game always arrives at the goal getting better each year. There are harsh critiques but DE puts effort trying to correct them. Voltage is always there making valuable suggestions for the game health. 

[Felsagger]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

Haven’t I asked you multiple times if you’d like to debate this on a live platform off of this forum yet you seem to ignore that 🥴 but sure I don’t respect others views I’m such a terrible

person what does that say about you? Because we’re more alike then different lmao

see lad tell you what when you done dodging coming off the platform to talk about issues that “shouldn’t be on the platform”  let me know. I can source a neutral mediator during this event and we can be as professional as possible. Debate is one of my former hobbies! And I’d love to see you come against me live on a topic 

I see that you edited your post two times. Looks like you are not in control anymore hammering your keyboard in angst and anger. Sorry but pressing the keys randomly in your keyboard will not produce smart replies. It doesn't work that way. 

Let me borrow few words.

"I don't roll in the mud to please the pigs", Sweat Shawp. "You chose inconsistent interactions, and in doing so established your brand here, and it is not to my taste. "

Have a nice day. 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

But they can’t lmao.

Except China censors everyone the are able too. 

They censor Winnie the Pooh in China, South Park, anything that doesn't paint communism and socialism in any other light then the massive failure that it is, while the average citizen is controlled in nearly every aspect of their life. 

China would love to own the world, that's why they enjoy buying capitalist companies, that did well under capitalism. Like Warframe! 
 

44 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

and just how their own citizens were speaking up and the American gov and our president ignored warning

Actually the President of America tried to close the borders, but he was called racist for that. Meanwhile the World Health Organization said that China had everything under control. 

Sorry, but your lying, and I'm smarter then that. But at that point, the Corona Virus was most likely already in America. The Chinese government isn't known for being honest, since they only care about control. 

That's why they censor people, so the truth never gets out- 
 

44 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

You’re using the same sjw logic

Wrong. I disagree with Sjws fundamentally speaking. 

Sjws love censoring others they don't agree with. Meanwhile, I do not believe in censorship, nor will I support anyone or anything that rejects freedom of speech. 

For example, I believe in your right to speak, about anything, no matter how stupid it is. 

Doesn't change how stupid it is, you have the right to speak. Even when not a single thing you have said has been true. (Like now.) 

 

44 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

oh actually it’s a funny story behind my name  it’s sweatshawp

Hilarious. Actually, I couldn't care less. 

Hey, tell me how funny the Chinese sweat shops are. I'm sure its a hoot. I'm laughing so hard. No really. 

44 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

also there aren’t any game end nets

There actually are suicide nets in china. 

Here is what they look like. 

53 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

china didn’t put them solely in power as China didn’t create them from scratch it

Actually China did. See China censors anything they can't control, so they make their own companies, that they allow instead of Western Companies. 

Tencent for example exists because China censors the internet, stuff like google, and purposely propped up Tencent to do stuff like what Steam does. 

Tencent runs the Chinese equivalent of Steam btw. 

53 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

but you support our country

That I must be the world's first person who was born in multiple countries. 

I said I'd be fine if Sony bought Warframe, is Nintendo, or Microsoft bought warframe, or if Warframe never sold to anyone. 

I must be Japanese, American, and Canadian all at the same time. 

I haven't mentioned my country once. You aren't that smart, so I'll let you in on a secret. 

DE could sell to anyone in the world. If that company supported Censorship, I would be against it. China is all about censorship, so I will never support it, unlike you who has no principles, and supports Tencent like a shill you are.

[Angwah]

2 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

They were and I blatantly showed you that they were and you still maintained even after the evidence was put right in front of your face that "oh they're not the main shareholder of iDreamSky". You just try to save face however you can when someone shows you actual proof that you are wrong.

Ok:

As you can see Tencent is not the main shareholder, nor did I ever say deny that Tencent had nothing to do with iDreamSky. Just because Tencent is an investor in a company does not mean they get to call the shots. That is not how any of this works. You only get control when you have a controlling share. Only at that point is a company a subsidiary. Fiscal law makes a distinction, you know, so perhaps you should do too. iDreamSky is its own separate entity and Chen is still in charge there.

iDreamSky Technology Holdings Ltd.

Shareholders

Name Equities % Xiang Yu Chen 242,870,430 19.1% Tencent Holdings Limited 235,999,300 18.6% Dream Technology Holdings Ltd. 177,474,575 14.0% Song Anfernee Guan 47,078,020 3.71% Xiang Jiao Chen 28,847,022 2.27% Jun Wen Lei 27,621,760 2.18% Jeffrey Lyndon Ko 13,979,400 1.10% JD.com, Inc. 5,925,200 0.47% Sony Corporation 5,925,200 0.47% Krane Funds Advisors LLC 4,373,600 0.34%

Also: 'Private equity firm CVC Capital Partners is backing a bid by Chinese game firm iDreamSky Technology (1119.HK) to take over its rival Leyou Technologies Holdings (1089.HK) in a $1.3 billion deal, said four people with knowledge of the matter.'

So, iDreamSky was being backed by CVC Capital, not one of Tencent's venture capital vehicles. This actually means something.

Lastly, if iDreamSky was just a proxy for Tencent, why did Tencent step in directly? Do you have any idea what initiating deals on this level cost and what it does to your share values when they fall through? Why eat such a loss if the end-result is the same?

20 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Honestly, do you really think that just because they are incorporated in a different location, the shareholders are public and company looses money over the CCP censors that suddenly means they don't have close ties?

They are one of the biggest companies operating in China. Obviously they have a relationship with its government. All big companies operating there do. It's no different in the US or EU. Does not mean much in the end.

But if you believe that losing 15 billion over a retroactively banned game is no big deal and not proof that they have a good relationship with the CCP, hey sure, go ahead. If those ties were that close, why did they not know the game would be banned after making a deal with capcom, developing a Chinese version which did comply with regulations at some point obviously, only to have it banned after being up on WePlay and having sold 1 million copies and wiping out billions in shareholder value?

Downplay all you want, but this in no way points towards these 'close ties' being all that meaningful as it meant they were blindsided completely and the rug pulled out from under them after jumping through all the hoops.

28 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Because you are campaigning so very hard to make it out like Tencent is a good company that gets such a bad rep for over-exaggerated reasons. That's why.

No I am not. The only thing I have ever done in these threads is saying that Tencent is not run or controlled by the CCP. Nothing more, nothing less. Companies that big are never 'good'. 

But hey, we have apparently moved on from 'Tencent = CCP' to 'Tencent has close ties'. Progress! 

 

[tzaeru]

Uh.. Yeah no. Tencent is a multinational public company. Its largest individual owner is Naspers Limited, another multinational company based in South Africa. See the shareholders e.g. here: https://www.marketscreener.com/TENCENT-HOLDINGS-LIMITED-3045861/company/

Also okay the latter part of your comment is just totally out of place and context for a gaming forum.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

12 minutes ago, tzaeru said:

Uh.. Yeah no.

Yeah, yes. 

Shareholders have no effect on Tencent's day to day operations with censorship with or for the Chinese government. 

Nor do shareholders have a say when Tencent bans, or censors games entirely like Monster Hunter World, or Animal Crossing which caused their stocks to drop 15 billion in change, before refunds were issued. 

You, much like most people here who support a censorship heavy company, will have to deal with the fact that people don't like or trust Tencent. 

I trust the entire Corpus faction, more then I trust Tencent, because the Corpus are honest enough to tell me they want me dead. 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Pay attention to the board. You are misinterpreting again. 

Hard to misinterpret the word "blocked".

[SneakyErvin]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Shareholders have no effect on Tencent's day to day operations with censorship with or for the Chinese government. 

You are aware that the censorship goes beyond politics? In fact it likely has nothing to do with politics at all since it is all rooted in ancient chinese culture and everything that comes with it. Just because something isnt disrespectful here in the west it doesnt mean it isnt disrespectful in the east.

Maybe open your eyes to the world and understand that not all cultures follow "morals" and "values" based on a dead carpenter or the rules of an old man in a funny hat.

edit: This is about MHW and not Animal Crossing.

[Angwah]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Shareholders have no effect on Tencent's day to day operations with censorship with or for the Chinese government. 

Correct!

Well, mostly. Tencent is a legal entity, and is indeed separate from its shareholders. However, shareholders appoint the Board of Directors, and the BoD appoints management, so they do have a say in day to day operations. They of course have no say in Chinese government and what they choose to censor.

11 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Nor do shareholders have a say when Tencent bans, or censors games entirely like Monster Hunter World, or Animal Crossing which caused their stocks to drop 15 billion in change, before refunds were issued. 

Obviously they would definitely have a say in their company banning or censoring games beyond what is legally required. 

But then again, it wasn't Tencent which banned those games, but the Chinese government:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-45183371

https://www.polygon.com/2018/8/13/17683722/monster-hunter-world-china-ban-tencent

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/entertainment/news/monster-hunter-world-is-banned-in-china/ar-BBLXkbU

 

[tzaeru]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Shareholders have no effect on Tencent's day to day operations with censorship with or for the Chinese government. 

I was answering a comment about Tencent's ownership structure, where it was claimed that the CPC owned Tencent. That is not true.

22 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Nor do shareholders have a say when Tencent bans, or censors games entirely like Monster Hunter World, or Animal Crossing which caused their stocks to drop 15 billion in change, before refunds were issued. 

Tencent censorships games for the Chinese market. They do this so they can sell the games in China.

They haven't censored these games for people playing them outside China.

It is China that chooses to censor or ban games. Tencent's choice has been to operate in China despite censorship, and to do that, they need to comply with the censorship rules. That's it. This is a choice constantly being actively made by their board, elected by the shareholders.

22 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

You, much like most people here who support a censorship heavy company, will have to deal with the fact that people don't like or trust Tencent. 

I haven't expressed support nor lack of it. You're putting words into my mouth.

Overall I'm not very happy with discussing with you. You use a lot of ad hominems, make strawmen and put words into others mouths. We should promote and encourage a better culture of discussion.

[Felsagger]

12 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Hard to misinterpret the word "blocked".

Hard to misinterpret the word 'private negotiation'. 

Sorry but you are out of this loop. 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Felsagger said:

Hard to misinterpret the word 'private negotiation'. 

Sorry but you are out of this loop. 

Na I'm right where I need to be in the loop.

So I guess the people I sold an aparement to a few years back "blocked" the other buyers when I decided I wanted to focus on just that family since they seemed most serious. Those damn people forcing me to privately negotiate with just them!

Yeah... no.

[Felsagger]

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

Maybe open your eyes to the world and understand that not all cultures follow "morals" and "values" based on a dead carpenter or the rules of an old man in a funny hat.

 

 

I protect your right of free speech to offend my beliefs. 

Ervin, your comment is off the bat, sorry but you are out of it. It's very offensive when you write down comments like this. It's unfortunate really because this speaks volumes of what type of individual you are. 

 

[Corvid]

If censorship is such an issue, i hope you guys are okay with giving up Valve's services, considering that several of their games have been censored in Germany.

[Swagernator22663]

7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

If censorship is such an issue, i hope you guys are okay with giving up Valve's services, considering that several of their games have been censored in Germany.

Dude, its germany, they censor everything. Look at Naruto version broadcasted in germany, a total joke. Blame germany, not valve you seem to have personal problem with.

[Kaotyke]

The fearmongering continues.

Are people really getting kicks out of this? One would think it would get booring after a point.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, Corvid said:

If censorship is such an issue, i hope you guys are okay with giving up Valve's services, considering that several of their games have been censored in Germany.

I don't live in Germany. 

DE is installed in Canada. 

[Felsagger]

Just now, Kaotyke said:

The fearmongering continues.

Are people really getting kicks out of this? One would think it would get booring after a point.

Yes because you have nothing constructive to add into the conversation. 

Check. 

[Corvid]

2 minutes ago, Swagernator22663 said:

Dude, its germany, they censor everything. Look at Naruto version broadcasted in germany, a total joke. Blame germany, not valve you seem to have personal problem with.

I'm just saying, it's odd that censorship is apparently OK in some cases but not others.

Also, I find it strange that you claim I have personal problems with Valve when, AFAIR, this is the first time I've mentioned the company on this forum.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

4 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

The fearmongering continues.

Are people really getting kicks out of this? One would think it would get booring after a point.

Agreed, there isn't much to discuss anymore and the people left are just fighting each other this thing is a big "wait and see" there's nothing else to do then wait

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

I'm just saying, it's odd that censorship is apparently OK in some cases but not others.

 

It's not O.K. to support a company that can potentially hamper a game and moreover helps a government with a political agenda. 

If we are going to follow DE logic here, we should support a company that cares for 'people first'.

[Angwah]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Don't forget "china uncensored" ..  worth watching if anyone cares about the truth.    Especially what's is happening in Honk kong. .  I doubt DE Steve Or LeBron James will ever tweet about it.   Just saying. ..

 

12 minutes ago, Shadow121971 said:

You are right, that i should have left that out. But if you look up on youtube, "NTD new, China in Focus" you see another perspective of what Chinese companies and the ccp are doing, and how it will affect you. I am in no way saying that everything they say is unbiased, or the complete truth. But if you just listen to one side of the story, then you will never get the whole truth.

No one here is arguing that the ccp is not an oppressive regime. We are discussing Tencent, and how much of an extension of the CCP they are.

We have already established that it is not owned by a majority of Chinese investors. I have already posted their top 10 shareholders, and the SEC report of them being incorporated in the Caymand Islands.

Now it appears to be centered on how close their ties are with the CCP, and some argue that they have an active say in what gets banned/censored and what does not. While obviously Tencent and its shareholders are a business interested in making money, and unwilling to walk away from the billions they make on a principled stand for free speech, that does not make them responsible for the CCP's policies. Blame for that should be placed at the feet of those who call the shots in the CCP.

Tencent and the CCP have a relationship, yes, but hardly a cordial one. There are plenty of conflicting interests.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-china-is-keeping-a-close-eye-on-tech-giant-tencent-1531047602

https://www.ft.com/content/8ac2b862-789d-11e9-b0ec-7dff87b9a4a2

https://win.gg/news/3042/tencent-profits-down-13-percent-blame-falls-on-chinese-regulations

 

[Felsagger]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

Agreed, there isn't much to discuss anymore and the people left are just fighting each other this thing is a big "wait and see" there's nothing else to do then wait

Disagree, there is a lot to discuss on such topic because this DEFINES the road for the next seven years. Don't try to diminish the importance of the subject. It doesn't work that way. 

[Shadow121971]

1 minute ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

Agreed, there isn't much to discuss anymore and the people left are just fighting each other this thing is a big "wait and see" there's nothing else to do then wait

But if we voice our opinion, while we still can, then mabe DE will see that it is a bad idea and not go through with it. But if we sit back and say nothing then we will loose our right to.