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Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)


NerdyJew-bij
Message added by Letter13

Please remember to keep discussion civil. No, this isn't the end of Warframe. The same sort of over-sensationalized prophesying happened 4+ years ago when Leyou (formerly Sumpo) bought shares in DE; people said it'd turn into 'all-lootboxes' and 'pay-to-win' and that DE 'would have zero control' and guess what? All bupkis.

Speculation is fine, as long as you're cognizant of the difference between opinions and facts, and as long as you're not spreading misinformation (intentionally or not). If you feel so strongly about this that want to leave the game, that's your prerogative (and loss) and is also fine.

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2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

It's not O.K. to support a company that can potentially hamper a game and moreover helps a government with a political agenda. 

If we are going to follow DE logic here, we should support a company that cares for 'people first'.

You might want to look up ccp and human rights, that is why their members are getting banned from entering some countries

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3 minutes ago, Shadow121971 said:

But if we voice our opinion, while we still can, then mabe DE will see that it is a bad idea and not go through with it. But if we sit back and say nothing then we will loose our right to.

It's not DE's decision. Leyou, a public company based in Hong Kong, owns DE. Tencent has expressed interest in buying Leyou and Leyou's majority shareholder has expressed interest to sell Leyou to the right buyer if they can find one.

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4 minutes ago, Angwah said:

 

No one here is arguing that the ccp is not an oppressive regime. We are discussing Tencent, and how much of an extension of the CCP they are.

We have already established that it is not owned by a majority of Chinese investors. I have already posted their top 10 shareholders, and the SEC report of them being incorporated in the Caymand Islands.

Now it appears to be centered on how close their ties are with the CCP, and some argue that they have an active say in what gets banned/censored and what does not. While obviously Tencent and its shareholders are a business interested in making money, and unwilling to walk away from the billions they make on a principled stand for free speech, that does not make them responsible for the CCP's policies. Blame for that should be placed at the feet of those who call the shots in the CCP.

Tencent and the CCP have a relationship, yes, but hardly a cordial one. There are plenty of conflicting interests.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-china-is-keeping-a-close-eye-on-tech-giant-tencent-1531047602

https://www.ft.com/content/8ac2b862-789d-11e9-b0ec-7dff87b9a4a2

https://win.gg/news/3042/tencent-profits-down-13-percent-blame-falls-on-chinese-regulations

 

Problem with your reasoning. 

 

If Tencent values their independence why they remain installed in China? 

That defeats your whole argument, entirely. 

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2 minutes ago, tzaeru said:

It's not DE's decision. Leyou, a public company based in Hong Kong, owns DE.

got this out of WIKI

 

"In October 2014, the chicken meat supplier Sumpo Food Holdings announced their intent to acquire a majority stake in Canadian games company Digital Extremes.[3] Digital Extremes is the developer and publisher of titles such as Dark Sector and Warframe."

 

Why would a  chicken meat supplier all of the sudden be interested in video games?

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1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

Problem with your reasoning. 

 

If Tencent values their independence why they remain installed in China? 

That defeats your whole argument, entirely. 

They remain in China because their biggest market is in China.

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Just now, Shadow121971 said:

got this out of WIKI

 

"In October 2014, the chicken meat supplier Sumpo Food Holdings announced their intent to acquire a majority stake in Canadian games company Digital Extremes.[3] Digital Extremes is the developer and publisher of titles such as Dark Sector and Warframe."

 

Why would a  chicken meat supplier all of the sudden be interested in video games?

Sumpo Food Holdings is Leyou. Since these are public companies, you can actually find their finance reports and stuff online fairly easily as they are required to regularly publish them. E.g. here's Leyou's.

In finances, it's fairly typical to set up a facade when preparing for a major buy to keep the competitors in the dark about it. Sumpo Food Holdings might really have been just such a facade. Though I don't really know the history of the company - maybe it was a legit food company that decided to swap from an industry being overtaken by a few large corporations to another industry where they could make a better revenue in shorter time. Without having any detailed knowledge about it, I kinda suspect Sumpo was just registered as an agriculture company to mislead competition.

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2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Problem with your reasoning. 

If Tencent values their independence why they remain installed in China? 

That defeats your whole argument, entirely. 

Wut? They also have investments outside of China? Many of them? Remember Fortnite, LoL, PoE and all the others, and that's just in gaming?

And the answer is obviously that currently they are still making billions in China? You even quoted me on exactly that! Allow me to repeat myself:

11 minutes ago, Angwah said:

While obviously Tencent and its shareholders are a business interested in making money, and unwilling to walk away from the billions they make on a principled stand for free speech, that does not make them responsible for the CCP's policies. Blame for that should be placed at the feet of those who call the shots in the CCP.

What argument do believe is defeated exactly?

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4 minutes ago, tzaeru said:

They remain in China because their biggest market is in China.

Would you stay in China if the government tries to control your assets and your people or make you lose money so often? 

Answer. No. 

They can be located elsewhere and work their market in China. 

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2 minutes ago, tzaeru said:

Sumpo Food Holdings is Leyou. Since these are public companies, you can actually find their finance reports and stuff online fairly easily as they are required to regularly publish them. E.g. here's Leyou's.

In finances, it's fairly typical to set up a facade when preparing for a major buy to keep the competitors in the dark about it. Sumpo Food Holdings might really have been just such a facade. Though I don't really know the history of the company - maybe it was a legit food company that decided to swap from an industry being overtaken by a few large corporations to another industry where they could make a better revenue in shorter time. Without having any detailed knowledge about it, I kinda suspect Sumpo was just registered as an agriculture company to mislead competition.

you may be right as I can not find anything about Sumpo Food Holdings itself.

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2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Would you stay in China if the government tries to control your assets and your people or make you lose money so often? 

Answer. No. 

They can be located elsewhere and work their market in China. 

Good thing they are way ahead of you then! Behold, Tencent's fiscal headquarters are.... *drumroll*:

Tencent Holdings Ltd

SEC CIK #0001293451

Company Details
Reporting File Number 082-34792
State of Incorporation CAYMAN ISLANDS
Date of Edgar Filing Update 2011-05-23
Business Address
ROOM 3506, 35TH FLOOR
TOWER 2, LIPPO CENTRE
ADMIRALTY K3 00000
Business Phone 86-755-86013388
Mailing Address
ROOM 3506, 35TH FLOOR
TOWER 2, LIPPO CENTRE
ADMIRALTY
K3
00000
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2 minutes ago, Angwah said:

 

And the answer is obviously that currently they are still making billions in China? You even quoted me on exactly that! Allow me to repeat myself:

This proves that you are blindly biased for them. 

You don't care for the People in China or Hong Kong at all. You care for all the billions they make. . 

 

Sorry but you are just out of the loop with your bias. Your word has no meaning here. Sorry. 

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21 minutes ago, Angwah said:

 

No one here is arguing that the ccp is not an oppressive regime. We are discussing Tencent, and how much of an extension of the CCP they are.

We have already established that it is not owned by a majority of Chinese investors. I have already posted their top 10 shareholders, and the SEC report of them being incorporated in the Caymand Islands.

Now it appears to be centered on how close their ties are with the CCP, and some argue that they have an active say in what gets banned/censored and what does not. While obviously Tencent and its shareholders are a business interested in making money, and unwilling to walk away from the billions they make on a principled stand for free speech, that does not make them responsible for the CCP's policies. Blame for that should be placed at the feet of those who call the shots in the CCP.

Tencent and the CCP have a relationship, yes, but hardly a cordial one. There are plenty of conflicting interests.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-china-is-keeping-a-close-eye-on-tech-giant-tencent-1531047602

https://www.ft.com/content/8ac2b862-789d-11e9-b0ec-7dff87b9a4a2

https://win.gg/news/3042/tencent-profits-down-13-percent-blame-falls-on-chinese-regulations

 

I was taking about how doing business with China leads to censorship. . DE Steve censored himself when called out on twitter. . The hole of DE have censored themselves over hong kong. .. like the NBA and blizzard their wokeness only goes as fare as their wallets. ..   so you really are selling your soul to do business with China. ..  

And what's the players are now asking is.   Can I continue to support the game if it's conflicts with my morals  . . Stand up for human rights or turn a blind eye. ...  

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3 minutes ago, Angwah said:

Good thing they are way ahead of you then! Behold, Tencent's fiscal headquarters are.... *drumroll*:

Tencent Holdings Ltd

SEC CIK #0001293451

Company Details
Reporting File Number 082-34792
State of Incorporation CAYMAN ISLANDS
Date of Edgar Filing Update 2011-05-23
Business Address
ROOM 3506, 35TH FLOOR
TOWER 2, LIPPO CENTRE
ADMIRALTY K3 00000
Business Phone 86-755-86013388
Mailing Address
ROOM 3506, 35TH FLOOR
TOWER 2, LIPPO CENTRE
ADMIRALTY
K3
00000

Again your word has no meaning. 

Main headquarters of Tencent. 

Shenzhen, Republic of Popular China. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tencent#/media/File:TencentHQ2020.jpg

This building is located in Shenzhen. 

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11 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Would you stay in China if the government tries to control your assets and your people or make you lose money so often? 

Answer. No. 

They can be located elsewhere and work their market in China. 

It's difficult to operate in China without having a company in China (same goes for USA, by the way - it's really hard to sell anything in USA as a non-American. The current and the previous company I work on have both founded a branch in USA to help out with this. Those are legit companies registered to USA, which just happen to be owned by the mother companies in my home country). Also Tencent was founded in China and still has major ownership by Chinese businessmen, so most likely there would be resistance to moving the HQ should one of the major non-Chinese shareholders want that.

Tencent actually helps out many Western companies wanting to operate in China. For example, Tencent owns 5% of Activision Blizzard and as part of their strategic relationship has helped Activision Blizzard launch and market games in China.

Moving Tencent out of China would make little sense for the investors and owners in it really. Probably the Chinese government would not take it well at all and would seek to ban Tencent's games. So Tencent would take a massive hit for very little gain.

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5 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

I was taking about how doing business with China leads to censorship. . DE Steve censored himself when called out on twitter. . The hole of DE have censored themselves over hong kong. .. like the NBA and blizzard their wokeness only goes as fare as their wallets. ..   so you really are selling your soul to do business with China. ..  

And what's the players are now asking is.   Can I continue to support the game if it's conflicts with my morels. . Stand up for human rights or turn a blind eye. ...  

If you go to the NBA website and try to put anything about HK on it, you get censored, no matter what country you live in. How far are you willing to support the loss of your rights, and where will it stop. They won't stop if we don't do anything.

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1 minute ago, tzaeru said:

It's difficult to operate in China without having a company in China (same goes for USA, by the way - it's really hard to sell anything in USA as a non-American. The current and the previous company I work on have both founded a branch in USA to help out with this. Those are legit companies registered to USA, which just happen to be owned by the mother companies in my home country). Also Tencent was founded in China and still has major ownership in Chinese businessmen, so most likely there would be resistance to moving the HQ should one of the major shareholders want that.

Tencent actually smoothes out operations for a lot of Western companies wanting to work in China. For example, Tencent owns 5% of Activision Blizzard and as part of their strategic relationship has helped Activision Blizzard launch and market games in China.

Moving Tencent out of China would make little sense for the investors and owners in it really. Probably the Chinese government would not take it well at all and would seek to ban Tencent's games. So Tencent would take a massive hit for very little gain.

That proves my point even further. 

Their main headquarters are located in CHINA. That simple. 

Why not have a building in China and move their main headquarters elsewhere? 

Sorry but Tencent has strong ties with China. That's about it. 

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17 minutes ago, Shadow121971 said:

If you go to the NBA website and try to put anything about HK on it, you get censored, no matter what country you live in. How far are you willing to support the loss of your rights, and where will it stop. They won't stop if we don't do anything.

Yip   that's why I stopped watching basketball. .  I think there is a game I won't be playing ether. ...

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7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

That proves my point even further. 

Their main headquarters are located in CHINA. That simple. 

Why not have a building in China and move their main headquarters elsewhere? 

Sorry but Tencent has strong ties with China. That's about it. 

I'm not sure I understand your point then.

You know that Tencent owns a company developing a gory survival game with fully nudity where you can use a slider in the character creation to set the size of your character's penis, if the character is male? (Conan: Exiles)

I'm not too worried about censorship to be honest.

The only thing I personally am worried about is the same as with Leyou - that at some point Warframe will no longer be racking in tens of millions in profit every year and then it gets sacked, instead of getting downscaled to smaller profit expectations. That's what often happens with these megalomanic public companies. But makes little difference there whether the owner high up the chain is Leyou or Tencent.

The idea that anything Chinese must be corrupt or lead into a catastrophe is borderline racist really, if one keeps clinging to that idea even after being shown the facts of the matter. I get that a lot of people dislike the Chinese government, me included, but Tencent's not in great terms with the Chinese government to begin with, and has no history of censoring games for their Western audience due to the Chinese censorship.

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Just now, Felsagger said:

This proves that you are blindly biased for them. 

You don't care for the People in China or Hong Kong at all. You care for all the billions they make. . 

Sorry but you are just out of the loop with your bias. Your word has no meaning here. Sorry. 

Hah! You know nothing of me or what I care for. I have stated multiple times that I condemn the policies of the CCP. Or that I consider behemoth-sized multinationals not to be 'good' actors. Or what activism I do in my personal life, which I am wagering is a great deal more than the majority. 

11 minutes ago, Angwah said:

While obviously Tencent and its shareholders are a business interested in making money, and unwilling to walk away from the billions they make on a principled stand for free speech, that does not make them responsible for the CCP's policies. Blame for that should be placed at the feet of those who call the shots in the CCP.

And yes, there is obviously a bias in what I said in the above quote, but if you truly believe it speaks favorably of those in charge of Tencent I suggest you reread it a couple of times.

All I am saying is that, however much you wish to turn Tencent into some shadowy tentacle of the CCP, they are not. Nor have they ruined their western game studios. That is all.

They are just a conglomerate of venture capitalists out to turn their piles of billions into even bigger piles of billions, like many other conglomerates of venture capitalists all over the world. And, oh yes, there is also bias in that particular sentence! Hint: it is not in support of billionairs.

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54 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

I protect your right of free speech to offend my beliefs. 

Ervin, your comment is off the bat, sorry but you are out of it. It's very offensive when you write down comments like this. It's unfortunate really because this speaks volumes of what type of individual you are. 

 

So he wasnt a dead carpenter? I guess I better tell my father that being a carpenter is offensive.

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7 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

That proves my point even further. 

Their main headquarters are located in CHINA. That simple. 

Why not have a building in China and move their main headquarters elsewhere? 

Sorry but Tencent has strong ties with China. That's about it. 

An HQ is just a building. That has nothing to do with where your fiscal seat is. Go look up what a fiscal seat is and why it matters more than some building where the CEO has his office.

And why are you suddenly saying anyone is arguing Tencent doesn't have strong ties with China? The majority of their revenue comes from China!

What is being argued is that business, and hence ties to China, does not equal being the CCP's secret handpuppet. 

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1 minute ago, tzaeru said:

 

Only thing I personally am worried about is the same as with Leyou - that at some point Warframe will no longer be racking in tens of millions in profit every and then it gets sacked, instead of getting downscaled to smaller profit expectations. That's what often happens with these megalomanic public companies. But makes little difference there whether the owner high up the chain is Leyou or Tencent.

War Frame survived seven years being a small budgeted game. The idea behind War Frame was strong enough to endure all that time. 

1 minute ago, tzaeru said:

The idea that anything Chinese must be corrupt or lead into a catastrophe is just a form of racism really, if you keep clinging to it after being shown the facts of the matter. I get that a lot of people dislike the Chinese government, me included, but Tencent's not in great terms with the Chinese government to begin with, and has no history of censoring games for their Western audience due to the Chinese censorship.

Be careful when you make these generalizations. Pay attention to what is written on the board. Many of us value Chinese cultures, Chinese Architectural firms and MEP engineers. We know how to differentiate the people and the population from the institutions that precedes them. I am careful enough to distinguish without prejudice. The argument here is that such company supports a Government that censors. If we support such behavior we are no better than the Government they have. We become part of the problem because we enrich a company that helps the Government commit an agenda that is not favorable for their people. 

Sorry to say this but we are player but we are humans too that are motivated by morals and principles. 

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10 minutes ago, Angwah said:

An HQ is just a building. That has nothing to do with where your fiscal seat is. Go look up what a fiscal seat is and why it matters more than some building where the CEO has his office.

And why are you suddenly saying anyone is arguing Tencent doesn't have strong ties with China? The majority of their revenue comes from China!

What is being argued is that business, and hence ties to China, does not equal being the CCP's secret handpuppet. 

Moving goalposts now? 

Sorry but you don't even have any debate skills.You selected inconsistent interactions.Your own doing established your biased brand here. This is a conversation you should sustain with someone else since you lack the capacity to debate.

Have a nice day. Believe in anything you want. Your words has no meaning in this discussion. Game over for you. 

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6 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Don't deviate the thread going off topic. 

You actually deviated the thread when you commented on my wording, since the part you quoted was on topic regarding the reasons for censorship in certain parts of the world. So dont tell others to not go off topic when you start it all on your own.

By the way, nice to meet you Mr. Kettle, or is it Mr. Pot?

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