Tencent on the hunt to buy Warframe? (Deal not confirmed/final)

[SneakyErvin]

37 minutes ago, OniDax said:

Leyou considers Warframe to have underperformed. That's in their report. Those aren't my words. Leyou reported a loss in revenue and a loss in gross profit. Not my words. Their words. By the last calculations for 2019 (based on studying their financial reports), they have around 4-5 million monthly active users (before they stopped reporting on that altogether). I'm not going based on fluctuating Steam numbers. I'm going off of their reports. And when an analyst, who has more experience and knowledge about this business than you or me says Leyou is looking for a buyer because Warframe suffered in 2019 due to a slow update cycle and new competition, something that is based directly on Leyou's 2019 Annual Report, yes, I believe them over forum users who want to believe that their favorite game is always successful. You. Are. Wrong.

Maybe you should look at the actual numbers in the report that says 12% loss compared to the prior year. That is all there is to it, they didnt lose anything, they just gained less revenue compared to the year before. And if you are going by their reports, why the 40k+ Steam users? And where do you get idea from that "they stopped reporting on that"? They report on that mostly once per year. 2018 had around 3 million active user, 2019 had near 5 million.

The only thing Leyou has pointed out regarding WF is that they though DE had produced too little story content. That was even recapped in their latest report of the plans the company has as a whole, where they talked about expanding more into the mobile market after the success of their CoD mobile game. 

And you seriously think Leyou is looking for a buyer based on a 12% lower revenue from 1(!) of their several games and studios?

[Tesseract7777]

I'm kind of confused by all the hysteria here. 

I thought the original Leyou deal was about them controlling the China exclusive build, and also some profit sharing. From what I understood, whatever deal Steve made left him with enough control in writing/shares in the company to make creative decisions for the global build how he pleases (except for some timed exclusives we would eventually get). 

Unless I totally misunderstood the deal to begin with and the creative control was more of a good faith agreement and not in writing, then why does it matter if someone else owns those shares/that deal? They are still controlling the china build and having little to no influence on the global build except for maybe more China themed timed exclusives. 

[SneakyErvin]

I wonder how many of the people here that go "if Tencent gets involved I'll quit!" sit here and say that yet play LoL, Blizzard games, Activision games, Epic games, games produced with Epic "exclusive" funding etc.

Maybe time to quit most games you play by now.

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

1 hour ago, OniDax said:

So, what do you think they mean by "suffered" if it's not about profit? We're talking about business here. If Leyou believes Warframe suffered, then that means financially.

http://leyoutech.com.hk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2019-Annual-Report.pdf

This is Leyou's Annual Report for 2019. Leyou lost money by the end of 2019. A majority of forum goers and being among the 10 most profitable Steam games years ago does not mean Warframe was profitable last year. Having 40k+ players on Steam doesn't make Warframe profitable.

Let me make it clear for you: Leyou lost $20 million last year in gross profit.

I'm sorry to break bad news to you, but Warframe was not successful last year, and that is the reason Leyou is looking for a buyout. Don't think Tencent won't want to make changes.

You’re missing a lot of key facts in this story. Leyou lost money but Leyou owned a lot more than just Warframe. Warframe was still profitable last year just not as profitable as it has been in the past, hence the use of the word “suffered.”

[OniDax]

6 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Maybe you should look at the actual numbers in the report that says 12% loss compared to the prior year. That is all there is to it, they didnt lose anything, they just gained less revenue compared to the year before. And if you are going by their reports, why the 40k+ Steam users? And where do you get idea from that "they stopped reporting on that"? They report on that mostly once per year. 2018 had around 3 million active user, 2019 had near 5 million.

The only thing Leyou has pointed out regarding WF is that they though DE had produced too little story content. That was even recapped in their latest report of the plans the company has as a whole, where they talked about expanding more into the mobile market after the success of their CoD mobile game. 

And you seriously think Leyou is looking for a buyer based on a 12% lower revenue from 1(!) of their several games and studios?

Again, I trust an actual analyst over you. And that analyst seriously believes Leyou is looking for a buyer because of Warframe's underperformance last year.

[Aseraan]

5 hours ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

The game that started to have mobile-like predatory practices? skins from hundreds of dollars worth of lootboxes? the game that went from having full events with different and exclusive game modes to just event passes completing missions during normal games? the game that ended up monetizing the achievement system? the game that admitted to cater to the popular and best selling champions? Tencent doesn't interfere in the game development, but it sure does seem to interfere in their companies monetization.

Pretty much sums up......

[(PSN)Wil_Shatner_face]

16 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

I'm kind of confused by all the hysteria here. 

I thought the original Leyou deal was about them controlling the China exclusive build, and also some profit sharing. From what I understood, whatever deal Steve made left him with enough control in writing/shares in the company to make creative decisions for the global build how he pleases (except for some timed exclusives we would eventually get). 

Unless I totally misunderstood the deal to begin with and the creative control was more of a good faith agreement and not in writing, then why does it matter if someone else owns those shares/that deal? They are still controlling the china build and having little to no influence on the global build except for maybe more China themed timed exclusives. 

People just like to think they know more about things than they actually do. There’s absolutely no need for all this panic. Games not going to change.

[OniDax]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Wil_Shatner_face said:

You’re missing a lot of key facts in this story. Leyou lost money but Leyou owned a lot more than just Warframe. Warframe was still profitable last year just not as profitable as it has been in the past, hence the use of the word “suffered.”

Warframe makes up most of their revenue and profit iirc.

[Letter13]

Thread locked for cleaning.

[Letter13]

Thread cleaned & unlocked.

 

Please remember that forum rules still apply. Keep the discussion on-topic and civil. Speculation is fine, but speculation that turns into insults is not.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

27 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

Thread cleaned & unlocked.

 

Please remember that forum rules still apply. Keep the discussion on-topic and civil. Speculation is fine, but speculation that turns into insults is not.

👍

[spaceageGecko]

I'm not one to worry but in this case I do, hopefully DE can let us know if the game will be left alone.

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

Iv seen better games get sold to more reputable people and go down the drain. its all a cr@p shoot. I don't like Tencent or how it handles data, but it would depend on the terms of the agreement.

THis does also represent a number of things- if it gets sold it also means that the DE team will make a lot of money. I want to let them know that this would not be selling out, you have to look after your best interests as a company when it comes down to it. It could also mean that the game will no longer be considered in Beta, the original team will be payed off and cut, and we will be stuck with what we have (that's doubtful). for players it might mean new systems and structures as well as supporting things that some of us may not agree with. its been a long road over the 7-8 years iv been playing. I only wish DE the best.

[VoreoTheDragon]

Id say the Tennocon stream might be a good time to at least poke at this , or try getting someone from Leyou on the stream maybe? Ease some worries.

[taiiat]

7 hours ago, hix3r said:

I would rank the "Empyrean starter pack with avionics like Zetki Bulkhead that 'just happened to have' an abysmal drop rate in game", and the "Old Blood - Lich starter pack with every single Requiem mod already included" as the top contenders for my 'It's just pay for convenience guys dw' - award for the past year.

yeah those are worth mentioning too, but to me less impactful because they don't disrupt the Gameplay experience just by their existence. i don't hit some roadblock that adds little or nothing to the game other than a Timer or busy work, Et Cetera.

6 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Out of which more than a half are useless KEK

even so, "it's just good business" to make a million types of Forma even if it's pointless to have, because of Forma being such a major profit driver in the first place.

 

 

7 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

But to my understanding, having creative control allows DE to develop what they want, when they want.

the reality of business, is that you don't need to have legal control in order to pressure a property to do things. a major Shareholder has say off the books, because it is financial support and therefore financial pressure.
and bonus points from not technically having any legal control absolves of any responsibility by default as well.
it's the 'hot new strategy' with Stocks.
there is no stronger power than financial power, in the modern world.

i'll leave it up to everyone to decide if such guiding pressure seems to have occurred, for themselves.

3 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

-snip-

later on, all shares were acquired. 51% originally, but more purchasing happened in the future.
still technically no legal control, however see my above Quote and make a decision for yourself.

 

19 minutes ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

Id say the Tennocon stream might be a good time to at least poke at this , or try getting someone from Leyou on the stream maybe? Ease some worries.

i don't wanna be a debbie downer, but, it would be business suicide to say anything other than "everything will be perfect and amazing" in not so many words. doubly so in any sort of marketing/open communication scenario.
you will never hear anything other than that. businesses aren't going to just commit suicide. any business on the planet earth would all say the same thing(s) irregardless of actuality, because it would be suicide not to.

[Jem991]

No need to drama

[OniDax]

EDIT: Well, the thread got merged. Also, when I made this post I didn't realize they reopened this original thread. My original comment doesn't matter. 😞

[Loza03]

It should be noted, as it is very important, that Tencent has not yet  finalised the purchase. What has been agreed is, to my understanding, an exclusivity deal that only Tencent is having negotiations - indicating that they are close to a purchase, but that it is not yet complete.

Please, remember that Shy is an entertainment channel and not a news channel, and double-check your sources and your facts.

[kgabor]

Warframe already has quite a lot of bot players, considering the macro use and Mesa being high on the usage stats.

[OniDax]

19 minutes ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

Id say the Tennocon stream might be a good time to at least poke at this , or try getting someone from Leyou on the stream maybe? Ease some worries.

They can't talk about the deal publicly. Legally, they can't.

My person opinion: I hope the deal fails and Leyou sells to Sony.

[(PSN)reddragonhrcro]

18 minutes ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

Id say the Tennocon stream might be a good time to at least poke at this , or try getting someone from Leyou on the stream maybe? Ease some worries.

Well doubt DE has any say into this so it would be pointless to ask them anything about stuff that is above them.

[Urlan]

8 minutes ago, taiiat said:

yeah those are worth mentioning too, but to me less impactful because they don't disrupt the Gameplay experience just by their existence. i don't hit some roadblock that adds little or nothing to the game other than a Timer or busy work, Et Cetera.

even so, "it's just good business" to make a million types of Forma even if it's pointless to have, because of Forma being such a major profit driver in the first place.

 

 

the reality of business, is that you don't need to have legal control in order to pressure a property to do things. a major Shareholder has say off the books, because it is financial support and therefore financial pressure.
and bonus points from not technically having any legal control absolves of any responsibility by default as well.
it's the 'hot new strategy' with Stocks.
there is no stronger power than financial power, in the modern world.

i'll leave it up to everyone to decide if such guiding pressure seems to have occurred, for themselves.

i don't wanna be a debbie downer, but, it would be business suicide to say anything other than "everything will be perfect and amazing" in not so many words. doubly so in any sort of marketing/open communication scenario.
you will never hear anything other than that. businesses aren't going to just commit suicide. any business on the planet earth would all say the same thing(s) irregardless of actuality, because it would be suicide not to.

Pretty much, very well well put together. I would add onto the 'debbie downer' that everything witll be perfect and amazing happened last time with Leyou which they actually assured us it wasn't going to be a buyout and then it was perfect and amazing that Leyou had, just as planned completed the buyout. So yeah, very well put on the topics.

[Jem991]

 

3 hours ago, OniDax said:

Again, I trust an actual analyst over you. And that analyst seriously believes Leyou is looking for a buyer because of Warframe's underperformance last year.

You misread and interpret the current analysis.

[OniDax]

4 minutes ago, Jem991 said:

 

You misread and interpret the current analysis.

So, tell me what the analyst thinks is the reason for Leyou seeking a buyer. The analyst was clearly referencing the annual report. The annual report said Warframe wasn't bringing in as many new players. Considering just how much of a percentage of Leyou's revenue Warframe brings in (one source says it's around 80%) and that Leyou reported a loss of revenue and gross profit, I tend to think that when the analyst says Warframe "suffered", that's what he's talking about. But please tell me how one should interpret the analyst's analysis if I'm incorrect.

[Jem991]

1 hour ago, OniDax said:

So, tell me what the analyst thinks is the reason for Leyou seeking a buyer.

Before tencent buy the riotgames, riotgames going well. but developer choose the money.

Before leyou buy the DE, DE going well but founder choose the money.

Now leyou see mobile market more profitable and they want bigger piece this pie. whit this income they make more mobile game. we don't see the future maybe they are make a mistake. Business more comlicated then you think.

if your company gain money. you can sell easily.
if your company lose money. hard to sell this company.
sony or tencent are seeing a profit as they want to buy this company or game.