Why is only melee weapons that are really powerfull in this "looter shooter"

[schilds]

9 minutes ago, trst said:

And when melee wasn't strong it was viewed as useless with situational utility. Melee weapons should be inherently strong since it requires manually approaching enemies and can only hit things within their range while losing damage in groups due to follow through. While guns only require having an enemy on screen and between punch through and various other mechanics can hit way more targets at a time while retaining most/all their damage.

Eh.

Melee in this game has significant advantages over guns.

• Easy to maintain mobility.
• Naturally AoE.
• Doesn't require aiming.
• Easy source of healing.
• Massive damage.

It's *easier* to survive if you can keep moving, doing your parkour, and don't have to concentrate on aiming.

[bronzebonobo]

Just now, (XB1)Red Dough Boy said:

I got the gun and riven without spending anything, why does it have to cost thousands of platinum? 

If they make guns too good don't you think people will complain they made the game too easy again since now they don't even have to melee to kill entire groups at high levels? 

Melee is easier to use and it doesn't take ammo that runs out so obviously people will melee. It still takes building up melee weapons in the right way and using the right weapons against the right enemies. Buffing guns without nerfing melee means we have even more ways to easily kill our way through hordes. 

you still have to aim the gun, which inherently requires more effort than just spamming the melee key, let's assume they do buff guns, still wouldn't matter because people would still use melee anyways because the range and aoe some melees have

[Eluminary]

Well we are space ninjas we do have guns but it's not really a Ninja weapon =p

 

Seriously though they overhauled melee a few times in this game, and in doing so they did it in a way  to try and make everyone feel like it wasn't a nerf... and in doing so they made it stronger and stronger and stronger ( and some people still think it was a nerf each time since original melee 1.0 spin to win)

[bronzebonobo]

Just now, Eluminary said:

Well we are space ninjas we do have guns but it's not really a Ninja weapon =p

 

Seriously though they overhauled melee a few times in this game, and in doing so they did it in a way  to try and make everyone feel like it wasn't a nerf... and in doing so they made it stronger and stronger and stronger ( and some people still think it was a nerf each time since original melee 1.0 spin to win)

a constructed piece of drift wood with a sharp pointy bit at the end of it can kill everything in this game (zaws) , we also have a warframe that can literally reverse time backwards and another warframe that creates another dimension that only he has the power to manipulate, very ninja such wow

[schilds]

I think a couple of things brought melee to where it is now:

• Parkour got a significant boost, letting us close in very rapidly on enemies, and get out just as quickly if we need to. (just don't mention coptering :-P).
• Melee got a couple of significant boosts, first with the release of specific mods, and then overall with the melee rework.
• I also think operators benefit melee more than guns (again, mobility).

[trst]

Just now, schilds said:

Eh.

Melee in this game has significant advantages over guns.

• Easy to maintain mobility.
• Naturally AoE.
• Doesn't require aiming.
• Easy source of healing.
• Massive damage.

It's *easier* to survive if you can keep moving and don't have to concentrate on aiming.

Guns can be used while airborne without sacrificing speed. As well you're more survivable mid-air and at a distance due to how enemy accuracy works.

Plenty of weapons already have natural aoe and can gain it through punch through anyways.

Plenty of guns don't require any more aiming than melee weapons do.

This requires sacrificing an entire mod slot for and is counter productive to the scaling mods that make melee strong. There are also plenty of ways to get easy healing.

And as I pointed out the damage doesn't matter when you can one-shot with near anything anyways. To an enemy with 100 hp there is no difference between dealing 100 damage or 1,000 damage.

[Eluminary]

3 minutes ago, bronzebonobo said:

a constructed piece of drift wood with a sharp pointy bit at the end of it can kill everything in this game (zaws) , we also have a warframe that can literally reverse time backwards and another warframe that creates another dimension that only he has the power to manipulate, very ninja such wow

Well was a bit of a joke, but ninjas have been portrayed in the past to have certain Mystic/magic powers

[schilds]

@trst

We'll have to agree to disagree, we're clearly playing different games :-P.

[ZiIIion]

2 minutes ago, trst said:

And as I pointed out the damage doesn't matter when you can one-shot with near anything anyways. To an enemy with 100 hp there is no difference between dealing 100 damage or 1,000 damage.

This is very much true. At lower level enemies, dealing 100 damage or 1000 damage really doesn't make a difference against 100 hp. Yes.

But OP's probably referring to the new Steel Path Star Chart where enemies are Level 100+, and that's where the differences between melee and guns become prominent. That's where the issue is. And he's not wrong, playing through the Steel Path, I've seen other players mainly relying on melee to kill things. Same goes for me, a lot of my kills on the Steel Path are mostly melee because guns simply aren't doing the job later down the star chart like in Steel Sedna or Steel Void.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2020-07-10 at 10:38 PM, x_Xtr3m3_x said:

Video to back up my words.

First of all your gun kills just fine. Second, have you tried aiming? You do 4x damage on headshots, which you seem to avoid on purpose. Third, why are you using Viral + Hunter Munitions against Corpus? That's, like, REALLY dumb. Fourth, try using a Warframe with more abilities than a bunch of health - Inaros is the frame for new players, like a bike with training wheels.

[Berzerkules]

When we get a primary/secondary that comes close to competing with melee there is an outcry to nerf the weapon. Meanwhile, almost every melee weapon can outperform the weapon about to get nerfed.  Does not effect me much since i just use primary/secondary as utility weapons just sucks for people that prefer to dps with guns.

[(XBOX)Red Dough Boy]

8 minutes ago, bronzebonobo said:

you still have to aim the gun, which inherently requires more effort than just spamming the melee key, let's assume they do buff guns, still wouldn't matter because people would still use melee anyways because the range and aoe some melees have

It's between aiming, or closing distance to get in melee range which is also effort. And if they nerf melee there will be a S#&$storm that I don't think anyone wants. Most of the time I start fights by shooting, then end it with melee. It's a good way to finish fights in this game. 

[(XBOX)Skiller115]

Maybe because DE prefers us to kill 10 mobs at a time instead of one by one, proof of this can be easily seen on how they continuely make extremely weak single target weapons like the Veldt, All primary kitguns, Quellor Automatic mode, Stahlta automatic mode and primary Tombfinger quick fire mode. While aoe weapons like Kuva Bramma, Kuva Nukor, and most melee especially Stropha can oneshot entire crowds with little to no what effort for no reason whatsoever!

[schilds]

I guess the other thing is it depends on the map type. In corridors and small/medium rooms, enemies are clustered together and are quickly within melee range. In larger areas, enemies are spread out, you don't want to chase enemies all over, and there is more time to use your guns.

 

Also, most missions there aren't any significant strategic/tactical punishments/disadvantages for chasing the enemy around with melee.

[Jim22]

Oh no explosive weapons are bad, maybe use something else like beam weapons. 

[MrZwitz]

1 hour ago, R.O.G.U.E. said:

Gonna have to agree with OP on this one.

There's definitely a power gap between guns and melee when it comes to performance on the Steel Path. Somebody here mentioned the Kronen Prime and he's 100% right, it's super strong against Level 100+ enemies. And hell, I've seen a lot of people using them on Steel Path Mot.

Melee weapons can scale up in damage with mods like Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds, gun's can't. 

The thing is, after 1 hour in Steel Path Mot, when enemies were lvl250, I realized that what I was doing could be done with probably 30 different melee weapons. 

Geeze, Orthos Prime is only 10 plat on the market. And rivenless, it actually BEATS the Kronen Prime in sustained DPS (you can use one of the warframe builder websites to see this). 

You add on top of that:

1. Steel Charge
2. Helios companion (guardian set mods)
3. Arcane Strike & Arcane Guardian (as a Loki who stays invisible indefinitely, I don't need any survival arcanes...so I can equip both)
4. Naramon (for infinite combo)

You now have a rivenless melee weapon that can clear any steel path survival mission for probably a few hours before running into trouble. In fact, only twice did I have to collect life support. Enemies were just dying that fast.

There isn't a single Primary or Secondary in Warframe right now that can get anywhere CLOSE to clearing 100 enemies per minute in Steel Mot. 

[(PSN)grayhyh]

The point is good but the comparison? acceltra isnt even really all that good at single target damage,People use it cuase its an assault rifle with aoe but if hunter munitions didnt exist it would be Mr fodder pretty much even with hunter munitions it isnt that amazing against high level heavies

Yeah melees are a walking powerhouse

[kevoisvevo]

I mean you are using the combo system to make your melee scale. You usually have to be up close to melee too while you can shoot from afar. 

[-Vahagn-]

I would assume it is because melee weapons are easier to use and have more mod variety. I'm sure if guns had condition overload, a combo counter and blood rush they would be pretty broken. 

However it also depends on the Warframe. Some Warframes can make guns really good, while others can make melee weapons better.

[Lutesque]

Yeah guns are weak in Warframe. This is because of the mods. Guns dont have anything like Blood Rush Or Condition Overload or some fancy Combo systems to scale their damage.

 

[MinecraftGangsta]

yes I agree saddest part is that when we have a gun thats close to melee it gets nerf 🙂

[ttylerrocks4u]

I would say Know your enemy. Be the first and formost thing. Looking at your video your going against corpus. I Looked at your builds for your allectra and your what i could see of your zaw. You have viral. Which does good against flesh but thats it. You have to chew through shields first. Viral is not gonna do anything against that shield. You need to get the shields down first and formost. If you look at damage types there is a couple that can rip shields. Mostly being magnetic. Maybe put it on your secondary rip shileds then switch to your acceltra and youll be fine.

The weapons have no issues if modded properly and weapon is subpar. Lookin at you Stubba bubble gun.

[Yamazuki]

Even if Melee was nerfed to the ground, it doesn't really change the fact you're using Viral+Slash when it does nothing to Corpus units that have shields. If you use one of the weaker melee weapons and use Viral, they also take several swings even at x12 to kill Steel Path Corpus units. Just like with guns, it's only the higher end of melee weapons that can get away with just not caring about what element you're using unless it's one of the more durable enemies that take a while (i.e Emessary).

[Berzerkules]

4 hours ago, MrZwitz said:

The thing is, after 1 hour in Steel Path Mot, when enemies were lvl250, I realized that what I was doing could be done with probably 30 different melee weapons. 

Geeze, Orthos Prime is only 10 plat on the market. And rivenless, it actually BEATS the Kronen Prime in sustained DPS (you can use one of the warframe builder websites to see this). 

You add on top of that:

1. Steel Charge
2. Helios companion (guardian set mods)
3. Arcane Strike & Arcane Guardian (as a Loki who stays invisible indefinitely, I don't need any survival arcanes...so I can equip both)
4. Naramon (for infinite combo)

You now have a rivenless melee weapon that can clear any steel path survival mission for probably a few hours before running into trouble. In fact, only twice did I have to collect life support. Enemies were just dying that fast.

There isn't a single Primary or Secondary in Warframe right now that can get anywhere CLOSE to clearing 100 enemies per minute in Steel Mot. 

With so many viable options for melee it really come down to what stance you like imo.  I prefer Kronen Prime for Sovereign Outcast, Reaper Prime with Stalking Fan, Sigma & Octantis with Final Harbinger and Dakra Prime with Vengeful Revenant. I have something like 40 other melee weapons that I have fully forma most with rivens that I rarely use because they just don't feel right when I play them. Every single one of them I could take into a mission for hours and do just fine. 

[vanaukas]

7 hours ago, x_Xtr3m3_x said:

8 Forma Acceltra with a decent riven   V   7 Forma Zaw scyth with a decent riven.. one would think they would perform somewhat the same no ??

No. Put 8 formas on a mk1-braton and see if it perfoms better than the acceltra. 

You can compare weapons based on their type, their stats, riven disposition and their builds, not on how much forma you have put on them or if both have a riven on it.