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"caster" Frame


SanityRobot
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Synonymous with "lazily designed pure damage abilities"?

 

What actually designates a frame as a "caster" vs "non-caster"? Abilities that have some depth beyond "does tickle damage"? What makes Volt and Ember "casters"? The fact that their abilities are awful?

 

I really wish it meant more than 2 to 4 abilities that do the same exact thing just with different numbers. That's not caster, that's lazy.

Edited by SanityRobot
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Considering all frames operate with 4 abilities of (supposedly) comparable strength, I suppose the determining factor for what makes a "caster" is largely subjective.

 

Rhino absolutely relies on his abilities, but I don't think anyone would call him a caster.  Slash Dash is one of the strongerst 1-abilities right now, and Rhino stomp is even very powerful, but again, Rhino and Excalibur don't seem very caster-y.  Volt seems like he's a caster, but you can get away with relatively minimal ability use with him.  Saryn is pretty durable, but none of her abilities are physical like Excalibur or Rhino.  Is she not a caster?

 

Objectively stats probably determine this.  High energy and low armor suggests a less physical and therefore "more caster-y" frame (on the subject of Volt, his low armor would imply caster in this case).  But I guess since all frames are supposed to use abilities, it's all about how you sell them/how we build them.  I mean, Loki does no damage at all (well, sometimes to chargers), but he's straight up caster and I don't think anyone would really dispute this.

Edited by Cursor
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I mean, Loki does no damage at all (well, sometimes to chargers), but he's straight up caster and I don't think anyone would really dispute this.

I would. I'm of the personal opinion that Loki and Ash are our rogue-frames.

All of the frames are casters in a sense though, so that is obviously only my imaginative preference.

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High energy and low armor suggests a less physical and therefore "more caster-y" frame (on the subject of Volt, his low armor would imply caster in this case).

 

Which seems...silly to me.

 

Frames can only use as much energy as they get. "Caster" frames, in general, don't have cheaper abilities, and most even have higher energy costs compared to, say, Excalibur. Energy is still tied entirely to however many blue balls drop, and that doesn't change from frame to frame.

 

"Caster" stats sacrifice armor, health, and shields for the opportunity to...not use their skills for a longer period of time?

 

On top of their abilities, for the most part, being very one dimensional and shallow. "Deal X damage in a tiny radius", "Deal 2X damage in a slightly larger radius", "Deal 3X damage to a couple enemies in a large radius".

Edited by SanityRobot
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There isn't a single frame I wouldn't consider a caster or less of a caster than any other frame. Excalibur and Ash don't seem very "caster-y" but they are still reliant on abilities like any other frame. I guess what they mean by caster is flashy abilities with no depth or creativity, that's the only thing I can think of that would fit.

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I guess what they mean by caster is flashy abilities with no depth or creativity, that's the only thing I can think of that would fit.

 

Flashy abilities with no depth and crappy defensive stats.

 

DE's vision of a "caster"...unfortunate.

Edited by SanityRobot
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I would. I'm of the personal opinion that Loki and Ash are our rogue-frames.

All of the frames are casters in a sense though, so that is obviously only my imaginative preference.

 

Well if you want to have a trinity of archetypes, sure, but I'm pretty sure in this game a duality makes more sense.  Everyone needs to run, jump, shoot bullets and get shot to some degree.

 

Which seems...silly to me.

 

Frames can only use as much energy as they get. "Caster" frames, in general, don't have cheaper abilities, and most even have higher energy costs compared to, say, Excalibur. Energy is still tied entirely to however many blue balls drop, and that doesn't change from frame to frame.

 

"Caster" stats sacrifice armor, health, and shields for the opportunity to...not use their skills for a longer period of time?

 

I think it's about how they use their abilities, like in terms of frequency and how integral they are to gameplay.  Heck, I slap Focus and Flow and Streamline on Excalibur every time.  Am I using a caster Excalibur?

 

Again, I think it's more about feel than literally being classified as casters.

 

And I'm just going to say that I think the energy ball system for ability resources is very clumsy and flawed, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

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Well if you want to have a trinity of archetypes, sure, but I'm pretty sure in this game a duality makes more sense.  Everyone needs to run, jump, shoot bullets and get shot to some degree.

You're right. Like I said, it's just how I prefer to imagine it. All this caster/non-caster stuff is mostly fluff/style rather than actual mechanical differences.

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You're right. Like I said, it's just how I prefer to imagine it. All this caster/non-caster stuff is mostly fluff/style rather than actual mechanical differences.

 

I just shrugged it off as stupid PR and fluff at first as well, but then I thought about it, and all of the "casters" are just boring shallow designs compared to "non-casters".

 

Vauban and Rhino vs Volt and Ember.

 

Vauban and Rhino have a stable of skills that remain useful through the game, and each serve a different purpose. Volt and Ember are loaded with skills that do crappy damage vs one enemy, or do crappy damage vs three enemies.

 

Then you arrive at the "well, Volt and Ember are just outdated and will be made more interesting", but then you realize that the rework of Ember was "make her boring bland abilities do armor ignoring damage", and Volt's rework was making his crappy damage ability hit a couple targets instead of one.

 

Then I can't help just coming to the conclusion that DEs idea of a caster frame is shallow boring straight damage abilities...and it makes me sad.

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Again: It's all preference. I happen to think Volt has a pretty diverse/useful set of abilities, but it may just be my style/inclination. I use all four of his abilities just about every mission I play with him. I do find Ember a little bland, but, eh, she's getting re-reworked soon enough.

Edited by ELREYULTIMO
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Considering all frames operate with 4 abilities of (supposedly) comparable strength, I suppose the determining factor for what makes a "caster" is largely subjective.

 

Rhino absolutely relies on his abilities, but I don't think anyone would call him a caster.  Slash Dash is one of the strongerst 1-abilities right now, and Rhino stomp is even very powerful, but again, Rhino and Excalibur don't seem very caster-y.  Volt seems like he's a caster, but you can get away with relatively minimal ability use with him.  Saryn is pretty durable, but none of her abilities are physical like Excalibur or Rhino.  Is she not a caster?

 

Objectively stats probably determine this.  High energy and low armor suggests a less physical and therefore "more caster-y" frame (on the subject of Volt, his low armor would imply caster in this case).  But I guess since all frames are supposed to use abilities, it's all about how you sell them/how we build them.  I mean, Loki does no damage at all (well, sometimes to chargers), but he's straight up caster and I don't think anyone would really dispute this.

Rhino is the strongest caster in the game. He has the most armor, and the most killer skill.
If you compare Reno and Ember on 35 level - Rhino uber caster ... And Ember garbage to write off (it is not a tank with melee abilities ... How else to call it?). And Ember have time to be "fused" times 5 ... from accidental hits. And the speed they are one class.
I'm not talking about bolie high. Let's say the maximum level of the game, a 120-level mobs.
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I see it as battle-mages/casters and just normal DPS mages/casters.

But what ever.

My friend. I would recommend to see what the magicians. Or rather who are spellcasters.
And do not read from the world of MMORPGs, as these games their parameters significantly underestimate due to the fact that they'd be super-uber-unbalanced destructive class.
Many makers of RPGs do not have even the notion of what are the magicians and on how many classes they shared. I'm not talking about the rest. While information can be found almost everywhere, and there's even a specially Dedicated to this resource.
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This game is revolutionary. Things done with this game, have never been done before. It's also currently free to play. Unless you develop games, I feel your view is insulting. Making a game is considerably difficult, especially one like this.

 

Fortunately, I don't care how you feel.

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Synonymous with "lazily designed pure damage abilities"?

 

What actually designates a frame as a "caster" vs "non-caster"? Abilities that have some depth beyond "does tickle damage"? What makes Volt and Ember "casters"? The fact that their abilities are awful?

 

I really wish it meant more than 2 to 4 abilities that do the same exact thing just with different numbers. That's not caster, that's lazy.

 

none of the frames you mention have more than 2 abilities that do the same thing.

And 2 abilities being a variation of the same thing is a norm in this game.

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Shock/Overload

 

Fireball/Overheat/Fire Blast/World on Fire

Shock does very little damage...which would be good if it did more than that, but it doesn't. Overload does practically nothing, unless you're in an enclosed area with a lot of electronics.

Fireball goes in a straight line, overheat is a temporary damage reduction. Fire Blast/World on Fire do largely the same thing, however.

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Shock does very little damage...which would be good if it did more than that, but it doesn't. Overload does practically nothing, unless you're in an enclosed area with a lot of electronics.

Fireball goes in a straight line, overheat is a temporary damage reduction. Fire Blast/World on Fire do largely the same thing, however.

Overload.
In theory, it should be effective against all.
Corpus - robots, they are made up of electronic components. Exception Marines novernoe also have quite a few implants.
Grinir - use implants and servomotors.
Infected - their base is composed of nano-machines.
Maybe for each type will have different effect, but performance should be the same.
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Well... is all about your game style. You can create caster from warrior frame and warrior from caster frame - but the point is - how they were designed. I think.

 

For me there are two main groups on which our frames are leveled:

 

-->Caster - this is warframe with low Health or Shield and higher Power. His abilities are mainly good synergies between each other and has possible synergies with other warframes. So, becasue of that - they are explited much more that in other frames.

-->Warrior - this is tenno with clearly much Health/Shield and/or Armor, lower Power and abilities which gives buffs (like Rhino's Roar). Their abilities can apply a lot of dmg, but if not specially build for casters their Power drain way to fast or some of their abilities has long duration and can't be recast (like Rhino's Iron Skin);

 

I see this as meter which [until now] no warframe hit his ultimate end. pure caster or pure warrior.

 

So, for me Mag is very, very higher caster level than Rhino, but much poor fighter on her own. She can be devastating on lower levels and sweep room after room, with just one or two abilities - no shot or slashes. Rhino on other hand is clear warrior - his Iron Skin protects and stay long until is not destroyed - you can re-cast. Stomp is devastating, but also can't be re-cast until the slow duration is not finished. The only real ability Rhino can spam is Rhino's Charge, but his price can be saved for new cast of Iron skin and Roar - +50% dmg is a lot!

 

Loki is also crazy caster-warrior. He is so squishy, that can't take punishment at all on higher levels even with maxed Reflect and Health. His power and real dmg shine in invisibility. You are deadly shadow which slashes enemies like wind and laugh on their corpses. xD Ash is more warrior(but way from Excalibur ot Rhino) than caster, but still his obvious  strength is invisibility. Large Health give him edge in combat with infested and lower Power makes you to think twice before using Ulti. 

 

Now - the problem with useless abilities of some caster is other matter. Question of balancing, that DE must answer and obviously - repair.

 

To refer to the new warframe - i hope to be even more 'warrior' on this scale, than 'Rhino' and her abilities are something which is no need to spam.

Edited by Ianrama
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