Counter Heavy Caliber's Accuracy

[Psroij]

SortaRandom, on 17 Oct 2013 - 2:15 PM, said:

I like Heavy Caliber's concept, but one thing that I dislike about it is that it doesn't help Sniper-type weapons (bows, etc) in any way.

If a Rifle mod that tightened spread but reduced fire rate was made, my Miter and I would be very, very happy.

 

If they changed Vile Precision to reduce spread instead of recoil, that would be really nice. There aren't really any weapons that have unmanageable recoil at the moment that can't be fixed by Steady Hands. Even the Latron series.

Judging by this comment and the fact no one else even mentioned Steady Hands/Stabilizer, I would like to point out that contrary to what Steady Hands/Stabilizer says it does, it actually does reduce the spread on weapons. Used it on my Braton Prime, it became as accurate as a MK-1. Used it on my Boltor, same result, took the spread to pretty much non-existent. Slapped it on my Grakata and it reduced the recoil a lot, and the spread a bit, but hard to tell how much. Put it on the Soma, and zoomed in all the rounds stayed almost entirely confined within the reticule (excepting the occasional stray), though hip fire was not narrowed as much. This was at 30m by the way points reckoning, by the by.

 

So, try Steady Hands and Stabilizer, because it seems that DE already thought of this when they had weapons like the Braton that effectively have zero recoil and only spread when they developed the mods.

 

Not saying it is a guarantee, but from searching this thread, no one has made mention they tried these mods.

[fatpig84]

Judging by this comment and the fact no one else even mentioned Steady Hands/Stabilizer, I would like to point out that contrary to what Steady Hands/Stabilizer says it does, it actually does reduce the spread on weapons. Used it on my Braton Prime, it became as accurate as a MK-1. Used it on my Boltor, same result, took the spread to pretty much non-existent. Slapped it on my Grakata and it reduced the recoil a lot, and the spread a bit, but hard to tell how much. Put it on the Soma, and zoomed in all the rounds stayed almost entirely confined within the reticule (excepting the occasional stray), though hip fire was not narrowed as much. This was at 30m by the way points reckoning, by the by.

 

So, try Steady Hands and Stabilizer, because it seems that DE already thought of this when they had weapons like the Braton that effectively have zero recoil and only spread when they developed the mods.

 

Not saying it is a guarantee, but from searching this thread, no one has made mention they tried these mods.

 

Don't use multi-shot on projectile weapons.

 

Yes seriously. I notice even without Heavy Calibre, my Boltor with split chamber no longer has 2 nails neatly stacked on top of each other. Sometimes the 2nd shot will veer away from the 1st one.

 

 

Coupled with Heavy caliber it will turn into an auto nailshotgun.

Edited October 18, 2013 by fatpig84

[Steele4real]

Not to be an outright $&*^, but almost all recoil-less weapons are already extremely overpowered. They needed to be balanced to prevent them from being ridiculously overpowered, you wanted more damage, well you're going to have to deal with some spread.

 

Think of it as being given a Delorian, and you adore it because when described to you by TimeMachines'R'Us upon receiving it, it feels like it fits your needs perfectly (being able to hit 88MPH). You spend resources on this vehicle to make it look like a pimp's car with some tricked out suspension and a new turbo engine (to make it hit that 88MPH a little fast). You then take advantage of its time travel abilities to see your father before he died and apologize for being such a $&*^. But then the government passes a law that restricts Delorians' from going above 87MPH, because frankly, they don't want people going back in time and making millions. Do you then go to the chop-shop you got the turbo engine & tricked out suspension from and ask for a refund? No. Because it is not their fault that you took advantage of something and felt the need to make it suit you (Upgrading the mod). 

 

TL;DR It was your decision to upgrade something that would be overpowered for no-recoil weapons, which would be an imminent nerf/fix. You could've left it as the normal stock mod but you took advantage of it. This is no-one's fault but yours.

 

(I HOPE TO @(*()$ GOD this makes sense makes sense, I'm way too tired to be thinking of scenarios.)

 

Great story. Compelling and rich.

 

But on behalf of the ppl who DIDNT exploit this mod on no-recoil weapons, but used it in Torid, Ogris and Bows, F*** YOU.

 

The change fixed the exploiters but screwed over other players. Thx Obama.

[Magister_Zel]

More than 4 fusions on this mod is a bad idea people, full fusion is only good for an already poor accuracy weapon like the supra, wont notice much difference, shoots the hell all over the place anyways.

 

But, i'm sure there will be an accuracy mod around the corner...right?...um, DE...right? ;P

Edited October 18, 2013 by 911nsidejob

[Patzer]

If you think that Paris Prime is the only weapon that exceedingly suffers by equipping this mod, you are incredibly uneducated on this topic. Please, take your ignorance elsewhere.

 

Every mod should be good for every weapon? Since when? Talking about ignorance...

 

And again, you are not one of those who read the full thread or even the OP. Don't even bother replying.

 

Because this mod is good for many weapons. You too could explain why suddenly new mod should be good for every weapon in game.

[TheSphynx]

Every mod should be good for every weapon? Since when? Talking about ignorance...

 

 

Because this mod is good for many weapons. You too could explain why suddenly new mod should be good for every weapon in game.

I thought you were "done posting in this thread"? These mods were released FOR EVERY WEAPON. Does it say "Rifle" or "Bow" on the mod? No, it doesn't. If they released the mod with your 'Every mod shouldn't work for every weapon' mentality, why would they be so worried about nerfing it on recoil-less weapons? Because it was overpowered? If that was the case, then what would stop someone from saying "Every mod shouldn't work for every weapon, don't use it on weapons with high recoil" back when the mod was first released? Your argument is invalid. The mods were not released to only be effective on some weapons (hence the changes).

[Vorigan]

Reading some of the recent comments, makes me want to say again how this thread is not (at least not only) about the fact that heavy caliber has a negative effect on weapons.

It is about the recent change it had and how this still doesn't affect the weapons for which it was made for in the first place (or it affects them only a little and some others positively). The weapons that are suffering the most are bows and snipers as it has already been said. Now, this is not good or fair for many reasons.

Also, even if we assume we had a mod that increased accuracy, heavy caliber still has a problem. This is because, as a player, especially if you have played other FPS or third-person shooter games, you can actually use a weapon which has recoil and still be accurate, as you can move your mouse to aim better, fire in bursts etc. Spread however, is something you can't control without a mod. Having spread on a weapon is like watching bullets fly off of your weapon based on RNG and don't know what to do about it (because you can't actually). Even shotguns that have spread by default, it is the same pattern over and over, again you can learn how to handle that.

 

Personally, I didn't fusion any of the Corrupted mods, because it was quite obvious they didn't think it through and changes would come sooner or later. So far, they've proven that they're pretty much unable to balance even the simple things, let alone these mods that brings up so many issues about balance.

At the moment I am actually tempted to level up my heavy caliber just for the sake of ignis or embolist or even ogris for lower level missions. See now how this mod "fix" is not right.

[Kato-san]

I would make it cut the magazine down -66% for negative effect.  This way bows Can be good for once.

[Patzer]

I thought you were "done posting in this thread"? These mods were released FOR EVERY WEAPON. Does it say "Rifle" or "Bow" on the mod? No, it doesn't. If they released the mod with your 'Every mod shouldn't work for every weapon' mentality, why would they be so worried about nerfing it on recoil-less weapons? Because it was overpowered? If that was the case, then what would stop someone from saying "Every mod shouldn't work for every weapon, don't use it on weapons with high recoil" back when the mod was first released? Your argument is invalid. The mods were not released to only be effective on some weapons (hence the changes).

 

And it works FOR EVERY WEAPON. I'm sorry that it wont work so well for bow cult this game has. I said it's just not good for every weapon. And it was not OP, still didn't make bows any more viable than they were, it was broken and it was fixed.

 

But thanks for this "I'm right, your wrong, wanna fight!?" reply anyway...

[Vorigan]

I would make it cut the magazine down -66% for negative effect.  This way bows Can be good for once.

 

Then it would be unfair for the other weapons. We're trying to find a solution that affects negatively all weapons, as DE said it should be.

[Patzer]

Reading some of the recent comments, makes me want to say again how this thread is not (at least not only) about the fact that heavy caliber has a negative effect on weapons.

It is about the recent change it had and how this still doesn't affect the weapons for which it was made for in the first place (or it affects them only a little and some others positively). The weapons that are suffering the most are bows and snipers as it has already been said. Now, this is not good or fair for many reasons.

Also, even if we assume we had a mod that increased accuracy, heavy caliber still has a problem. This is because, as a player, especially if you have played other FPS or third-person shooter games, you can actually use a weapon which has recoil and still be accurate, as you can move your mouse to aim better, fire in bursts etc. Spread however, is something you can't control without a mod. Having spread on a weapon is like watching bullets fly off of your weapon based on RNG and don't know what to do about it (because you can't actually). Even shotguns that have spread by default, it is the same pattern over and over, again you can learn how to handle that.

 

Personally, I didn't fusion any of the Corrupted mods, because it was quite obvious they didn't think it through and changes would come sooner or later. So far, they've proven that they're pretty much unable to balance even the simple things, let alone these mods that brings up so many issues about balance.

At the moment I am actually tempted to level up my heavy caliber just for the sake of ignis or embolist or even ogris for lower level missions. See now how this mod "fix" is not right.

 

I got it on rank 10 It's really good tradeoff mod for Ogris and Ignis. Like you said too problems are mostly with snipers. But yeah, there really should be mod to counter this, maybe sniper specific mod, accuracy+something even to make snipers less crap.

[modded]

Not to be an outright $&*^, but almost all recoil-less weapons are already extremely overpowered. They needed to be balanced to prevent them from being ridiculously overpowered, you wanted more damage, well you're going to have to deal with some spread.

 

Think of it as being given a Delorian, and you adore it because when described to you by TimeMachines'R'Us upon receiving it, it feels like it fits your needs perfectly (being able to hit 88MPH). You spend resources on this vehicle to make it look like a pimp's car with some tricked out suspension and a new turbo engine (to make it hit that 88MPH a little fast). You then take advantage of its time travel abilities to see your father before he died and apologize for being such a $&*^. But then the government passes a law that restricts Delorians' from going above 87MPH, because frankly, they don't want people going back in time and making millions. Do you then go to the chop-shop you got the turbo engine & tricked out suspension from and ask for a refund? No. Because it is not their fault that you took advantage of something and felt the need to make it suit you (Upgrading the mod). 

 

TL;DR It was your decision to upgrade something that would be overpowered for no-recoil weapons, which would be an imminent nerf/fix. You could've left it as the normal stock mod but you took advantage of it. This is no-one's fault but yours.

 

(I HOPE TO @(*()$ GOD this makes sense makes sense, I'm way too tired to be thinking of scenarios.)

Over powered lol? Please tell me how those mods were OP when they cost a S#&$-ton to rank up and are not mod energy efficient.

 

And your analogy is flawed because the in your scenario the ones you bought the parts from WERE NOT the ones who changed the law. In your scenario, you still had what you paid for.

 

DE made the mod, then changed it. And will you guys stop trying to play the OP card? It's not like recoil was ever that hard to control on non-burst fire weapons anyways (other than maybe the grakata IF you went full rock-and-roll with it).

[modded]

Then it would be unfair for the other weapons. We're trying to find a solution that affects negatively all weapons, as DE said it should be.

How about + scope in time?

[TheSphynx]

I got it on rank 10 It's really good tradeoff mod for Ogris and Ignis. Like you said too problems are mostly with snipers. But yeah, there really should be mod to counter this, maybe sniper specific mod, accuracy+something even to make snipers less crap.

A '+% Accuracy' mod for only snipers? What would that mod do for people that do not use Heavy Caliber? Absolutely nothing, since all snipers/bows have 100 Accuracy. Adding a mod to a specific category of weapons (bows/snipers) to ONLY be useful to counter Heavy Caliber's negative accuracy is a completely ridiculous idea. It would only add fuel to the fire and put them back to why they changed the mod in the first place.

Still, after all the discussion on this topic in multiple threads, I think the easiest and most efficient solution to this problem is to just add a '+% Accuracy' mod that can be used on ALL weapons. Also, have it work on weapons that do not have Heavy Caliber or Magnum Force equipped. For example, if I equipped the '+% Accuracy' mod on my Twin Vipers, without Magnum Force, I would see a tighter spread. Sure, some weapons would benefit less from this mod without HC or MF equipped (Bows/Snipers), but it would be comparable to putting a Critical Chance mod on a weapon with a 0%-2.5% base critical chance.

Edited October 18, 2013 by TheSphynx

[Patzer]

A '+% Accuracy' mod for only snipers? What would that mod do for people that do not use Heavy Caliber? Absolutely nothing, since all snipers/bows have 100 Accuracy. Adding a mod to a specific category of weapons (bows/snipers) to ONLY be useful to counter Heavy Caliber's negative accuracy is a completely ridiculous idea. It would only add fuel to the fire and put them back to why they changed the mod in the first place.

Still, after all the discussion on this topic in multiple threads, I think the easiest and most efficient solution to this problem is to just add a '+% Accuracy' mod that can be used on ALL weapons. Also, have it work on weapons that do not have Heavy Caliber or Magnum Force equipped. For example, if I equipped the '+% Accuracy' mod on my Twin Vipers, without Magnum Force, I would see a tighter spread. Sure, some weapons would benefit less from this mod without HC or MF equipped (Bows/Snipers), but it would be comparable to putting a Critical Chance mod on a weapon with a 0%-2.5% base critical chance.

 

Maglev, Hush, Stabilizer... No one would even notice if they added niche mod which might be "bad" unless Heavy Caliber is used in sea of useless mods. Like I said accuracy+something, double mod for nightmare maybe. Accuracy mod for all rifles might bring more balance issues. Soma, Supra atc..

[TheSphynx]

Maglev, Hush, Stabilizer... No one would even notice if they added niche mod which might be "bad" unless Heavy Caliber is used in sea of useless mods. Like I said accuracy+something, double mod for nightmare maybe. Accuracy mod for all rifles might bring more balance issues. Soma, Supra atc..

Not the most efficient =/= Useless

ANY mod (your proposed '+% Accuracy to ONLY snipers') would be useless if it only worked with another mod (Heavy Caliber) equipped.

Saying the least used mods are the same as a 'mod that ONLY works on some weapons, ONLY under certain circumstances', is completely ridiculous. For now, I would like you to stop posting on this thread (as you said you were going to do). All of your arguments are going in circles and stated with ignorance. Thank you for the effort (if any) you have put towards this thread.

[DeltaF0rce]

Great, now i maxed Heavy Caliber basically for nothing.

[TheSphynx]

Great, now i maxed Heavy Caliber basically for nothing.

I wouldn't say 'for nothing'. It's still a great mod. It just need to be fix. The original release was screwed up and they should have learned from that mistake. Instead, they did the exact same thing with the mod change. Making it extremely effective on some weapons (continuous) and almost unusable on others (bows/snipers). All, without thinking twice about a single counterpart mod (which EVERY Corrupt Mod has). Basically as followed:

1. DE releases a mod, not keeping in mind that it doesn't negatively effect weapons without recoil.

2. DE makes no 'Official' statements about the mod being changed in a later update.

3. DE changes the mod without an option to refund players that spent resources ranking up this mod.

4. DE releases CHANGED mod, not keeping in mind that is nearly renders bows, snipers, and maybe the Torid, unusable.

5. DE either forgets or looks past the fact that EVERY Corrupt Mod has a single counterpart. There is not one for this change.

6. 2 days and 1 Prime Time with no statement regarding the new CHANGED mod. Rework? Refunds? Counterpart Mod? Nothing?

We'll just have to wait and see if anything is brought up about 'Accuracy' in today's livestream. Hopefully it's not just a "Oh yeah, it's dilution. Dilution is what's making arrows and rockets fly off your screen."

 

Edited October 18, 2013 by TheSphynx

[Patzer]

Not the most efficient =/= Useless

ANY mod (your proposed '+% Accuracy to ONLY snipers') would be useless if it only worked with another mod (Heavy Caliber) equipped.

Saying the least used mods are the same as a 'mod that ONLY works on some weapons, ONLY under certain circumstances', is completely ridiculous. For now, I would like you to stop posting on this thread (as you said you were going to do). All of your arguments are going in circles and stated with ignorance. Thank you for the effort (if any) you have put towards this thread.

 

I dont know did you misunderstood or intentionally trying to bend my point as I said accuracy+something, third time now btw as an example accuracy+reload speed or something like that. And I said I give up on people who don't even own this mod.

 

Btw where would you place yourself here:

 

 

I would say around contradiction or responding to tone so no wonder this is not going anywhere.

 

Edit: As an example how would you fix this mod with snipers?

Edited October 18, 2013 by Patzer

[SlyBoots]

Edit: As an example how would you fix this mod with snipers?

 

dude, how it worked before 10.4: RECOIL. have you no memory? and if it hadn't been enough, just add more recoil for snipers.

 

you even quoted a guy that said that this is about the change in said patch, did you even read that? XD

Edited October 18, 2013 by SlyBoots

[Patzer]

dude, how it worked before 10.4: RECOIL. have you no memory?

 

you even quoted a guy that said that this is about the change in said patch, did you even read that? XD

 

So no negative effects on recoiless weapons? TBH I wouldn't mind but seems like DE doesn't intent it that way so /shrug.

[SlyBoots]

So no negative effects on recoiless weapons? TBH I wouldn't mind but seems like DE doesn't intent it that way so /shrug.

 

i don't see why they couldn't leave reduced accuracy for flux and the like and heavy recoil for snipers.

[Patzer]

i don't see why they couldn't leave reduced accuracy for flux and the like and heavy recoil for snipers.

 

Yeah, not a bad idea, that could work if this is the way'ish DE wants it. Definately wouldn't still make snipers OP. x)

[General_Krull]

So no negative effects on recoiless weapons? TBH I wouldn't mind but seems like DE doesn't intent it that way so /shrug.

There's still no negative effect for ignis. 

[TheSphynx]

Btw where would you place yourself here:

 

I would say around contradiction or responding to tone so no wonder this is not going anywhere.

How are you going to use this diagram when ALL of your posts relate to the bottom 4 quadrants? I hate having this discussion go to this, and this is the VERY LAST time that I even bother to communicate with you. YOU have claimed you are done with this thread but you keep posting; and now derailing the topic. Lets see, maybe you shouldn't use images or diagrams that actually make yourself look even more ignorant. In case you don't believe me, or you have an incredibly thick skull, here you go:

 

Contradiction:

I have maxed it and tested after change. It's not that bad really, totally usable still. I'm ok with it.

Responding to Tone:

I give up. In this thread: people who have not maxed nor tested new Heavy Caliber whine about how bad it is? what?

Ad Hominem (Towards people that attempt to use it on a bow):

Well? Whats the problem? Its very good mod unless you want to slap it on lolparis prime for some reason like some people.

Responding to Tone:

But thanks for this "I'm right, your wrong, wanna fight!?" reply anyway...

Edited October 18, 2013 by TheSphynx