Curiosity time: Would you play WF if killing enemies was possible, but not necessary?

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

😵😵🙂

I would even love to see this woven into the Story Arc, as they have dropped little hints here and there that the Tenno were exploited to "kill without thinking" and these "Non-Lethal" missions could be a way that we sort of "take back our souls" by way of missions where we get rewards for NOT killing (other than Spy missions, as someone pointed out).

I would NOT remove any existing missions - would still have Exterminate, Survival, etc - but some manner of Additional Missions where you are pushed to complete the mission with as few kills as possible, OR where you get rewards for completing the goal by actually Brokering a Peaceful Resolution / Surrender, etc would be super-interesting!

Probably asking a lot as it would require some serious adjustments to the tonality of the game, but I think it could make for some VERY interesting new mission types, especially as the Origin System Map keeps expanding.  Thank you for brining this up! 🙂

p.s. To be honest I am kind of waiting for the "other shoe to drop" in the main story, where it turns out that we have been "the bad guys" all along....  😵
They kind of did this with the Orokin who we thought were our "lovely progenitors."  Love me a good story twist!

[Sziklamester]

As an option this is not a vad idea. Most players rend to kill things but sometimes finishing the mission is the better choice. If story elements would not ask for kill enemies in a mission then it could be possible to stay pacifist. 

Personally I like to kill enemies but sometimes I just want to hang out in a mission or exploring.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

aside from the riven challenge (complete a level 30+ Survival without killing), no.

as an avid following of Red Veil, I'm all about the purge!  

[0_The_F00l]

I would definitely play, and being optional, I doubt anyone would have problems. 

That being said, I do not see a very good means to do so for some of the missions. 

Some missions are already possible (even faster) if you focus on doing the mission without killing (spy, MD, sabotage etc). 

How will you make exterminate and defense work with this approach is something I wanna know. 

Maybe have special rooms/consoles in Grineer missions that halt clone production? 

And in corpus you have HR rooms where you just terminate the employment of the the entities so you don't have to kill em? 

[Murox]

You can already do Capture, Survival (first 5 minutes at least), Spy, Rescue, Sabotage, Mobile Defense like that.

[Sailears]

Would be interesting, but aside from certain mission objectives encouraging you to skip the entire level in terms of enemies, I'm not sure if this game is the place for deeper non-lethal options.

I mean sure, with something like Deus Ex:HR or similar, I enjoyed playing pacifist/foxiest where there were the tools and incentive to do so (eg stun gun, darts, non-lethal melee).

But in Warframe there's an overwhelming amount of... stuff (weapons), that is purely for doing lethal damage in a number of horrific ways that it's hard to get away from. As well as the overwhelming amount of mindless enemies that is difficult to avoid killing any sometimes.

Having said that it would be cool if there were some non lethal weapons to support certain frame abilities (eg Sleep), so you could knock out enemies and even gain some portion of affinity without killing them. Though this would probably only work solo/premade, because in public someone else would just come and wipe the floor with all the mobs anyway. 😕

[Butterfly85]

Well I usually run spy and rescue without killing stuff for expediency so ... 🤷‍♀️

[Rakosta_Kai]

Yup. I play quite frequently that way regardless.

If there was a status for sleep that I could load on weapons it'd probably be my most used status.

@(PS4)Lollybomb Sad, but true...It wasn't always quite this bad but it definitely is nowadays. 

 

[FireSegment]

On 2020-07-17 at 1:46 AM, Tyreaus said:

So, for example, if:

• Loot containers refreshed over time and could drop everything enemies currently can (like life support capsules, rare mods...)
• Objectives needing kills, like Defense or Exterminate, no longer did (maybe Exterminate is a looting run instead)
• Capture could be done by "stealth-kill"
• So on and so forth

Basically: if the game said "you can kill enemies, but you never have to", and the game progressed no faster or slower (whether killing or being a pacifist), would you have the same interest in Warframe as you do now?

_{I don't know where this came from, I'm just really curious now...}

this is a looter, we player chasing loots, so if that method yield more loot (not all, but at least for some specific loot type) then player would just start to "train" themselves to do it efficiently. 

It's just that ... we player end up training ourselves into feeling indifferent to whether the enemy live or die now at this point. That's the whole deal with meta frames like equinox and old ember simply parkour to objective and then to extraction without knowing the enemy exist, or their teammate exist.(and as grimm as it is, i believe a form of it was implement into the power fantasy of wukong cloud walker)

so ... i guess the answer to your question does vary player by player, but my guess would be that most would land on the "indifferent" if they reached a certain number of hour with this game.

[schilds]

Sure, but I wouldn't necessarily remove existing "on kill" mission objectives.

I'd go for removing general incentives, like the loot drops, and broaden the spawning algorithm so enemies are not just spawned when another enemy dies.

[Lullypumpsie]

We are Tenno, we are baddies! 

[xarvh]

I'd love it.

It never sat well with me that Warframe (like the overwhelming majority of videogames) normalises solving problems by killing people.

I wish there were more games that embraced Asimov's "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", where you end up using violence only when you are inexperienced or make bad mistakes.
 

[AzureTerra]

It would be cool but i cant really see it happening since the one mission where you didn't need to kill anything at all got removed (Deception)

[wtrmlnjuc]

You mean, like almost every mission already because Warframe’s mission design doesn’t actually create difficulty besides in Spy?

[lukasystem]

Yes, and i'd kill them all anyway...

[VanFanel1980mx]

On 2020-07-16 at 1:46 PM, Tyreaus said:

So, for example, if:

• Loot containers refreshed over time and could drop everything enemies currently can (like life support capsules, rare mods...)
• Objectives needing kills, like Defense or Exterminate, no longer did (maybe Exterminate is a looting run instead)
• Capture could be done by "stealth-kill"
• So on and so forth

Basically: if the game said "you can kill enemies, but you never have to", and the game progressed no faster or slower (whether killing or being a pacifist), would you have the same interest in Warframe as you do now?

_{I don't know where this came from, I'm just really curious now...}

It would add some spice to certain missions but stealth is bad in this game, once you raise an alert enemies will know exactly where you are unless you turn invisible, is the oldest problem from any stealth game which most other developers have been able to solve, DE is not among those, you alert someone and immediately another enemy 3 miles across the map activates an alarm panel.

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

15 hours ago, xarvh said:

I'd love it.

It never sat well with me that Warframe (like the overwhelming majority of videogames) normalises solving problems by killing people.

I wish there were more games that embraced Asimov's "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent", where you end up using violence only when you are inexperienced or make bad mistakes.
 

Lol, warframe definitely is not, nor will ever be that. It's a looter shooter, what did you expect, something like the Phantom Pain?

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

On 2020-07-16 at 11:46 AM, Tyreaus said:

So, for example, if:

• Loot containers refreshed over time and could drop everything enemies currently can (like life support capsules, rare mods...)
• Objectives needing kills, like Defense or Exterminate, no longer did (maybe Exterminate is a looting run instead)
• Capture could be done by "stealth-kill"
• So on and so forth

Basically: if the game said "you can kill enemies, but you never have to", and the game progressed no faster or slower (whether killing or being a pacifist), would you have the same interest in Warframe as you do now?

_{I don't know where this came from, I'm just really curious now...}

Would I get a tranq rifle that puts enemies to sleep? 

[Tyreaus]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Would I get a tranq rifle that puts enemies to sleep? 

I mean, we do have a tranq rifle, so...yeah. Definitely!

(And we can let the fishing spears do more damage too. Oh, or loot via fishing spear, like a pocket Ivara Prowl.)

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

1 minute ago, Tyreaus said:

I mean, we do have a tranq rifle, so...yeah. Definitely!

(And we can let the fishing spears do more damage too. Oh, or loot via fishing spear, like a pocket Ivara Prowl.)

Wait, what? I know Ivara's ability can put enemies to sleep (so can Equinox and Baruuk), but we have an actual tranq rifle? Not just Ivara's sleep arrows, there's an actual tranq rifle or tranq pistol in the game?

[Tyreaus]

Just now, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Wait, what? I know Ivara's ability can put enemies to sleep (so can Equinox and Baruuk), but we have an actual tranq rifle? Not just Ivara's sleep arrows, there's an actual tranq rifle or tranq pistol in the game?

There is - it just only works for putting animals to sleep. Doesn't sleep enemies. (Though it should)

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Just now, Tyreaus said:

There is - it just only works for putting animals to sleep. Doesn't sleep enemies. (Though it should)

D'oh! Forgot about that. I was thinking back to weapons, disregarded gear items.