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Livestream, Loki & The Sentinels


BigBadHunkyDaddy
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So, we have a new livestream coming and with that, I'd like to finally hear some answer to the Loki and the Sentinels issue from DE.

This was already discussed for example in https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/91717-we-need-an-official-response-from-de-on-the-lokisentinel-issue/page-2'>this topic and of course many times in many different topics. 

 

As far as I'm aware (there's of course a possibility I might have missed it) we still don't have the answer if this is intentional (in which case I'd like to know the reason for it) or a bug (according to Rebecca's post in the above mentioned topic, she logged it as a bug and that she'd try to get us more info on the issue... that was 2 months ago). It's in the game ever since sentinels were introduced and yet it hasn't been addressed by DE. Only saying that they are aware of it. Which means squat, let's be honest.

 

I'm baffled as to how it can take SO long to get an answer to a very simple question. The question is:

Is the fact, that Loki's invisibility doesn't cloak a sentinel, a bug? (yes/no)

If no, please describe your reason for it.

 

Shouldn't take you over half a year to answer it.

 

Thank you

Your Paying Customer

 

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Well said. The ONLY reason I payed 100k kredits for Shade, was to use while Cloaked.

I never built it when I found this out. A bit silly really.

While were on topic, please share plans for stealth.

If it will be expanded on, if so in what way, ai, mods, leveldesign, alerts?

A shame to not make use of a obviously wanted feature.

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same here i want to know, but in my opinion is counterproductive that loki cannot use the sentinel while the rest of the warframes can use them by an excuse (expressed by some players not DE) that loki is a "lone wolf" since thats not what it said in his description and skills he works pretty well on team play (the real lone wolf is ash) and also unlike the rest of the warframes loki skills havent change too much since the close beta so by that time it wasnt take the addition of the sentinel into consideration.

 

its not the same "being intended" and " how is suppose to be".

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Here's the gist of it, DE side. It is paraphrased, but as accurate as I can reproduce it:

 

Loki's invisibility, if it would cloak his Sentinel would result in endless invisibility. The current system is in place because it is intentional, by design. The "bug" is submitted regularly and rejected as "not a bug, but intentional". Yet, there is awareness of the issue itself, and there are plans to address it.

 

Now, moving along, this raises some questions.

 

1.) If this applies to Loki, why does it not apply to Ash?

2.) If this applies to Loki and Shade, why not have a check in place that only applies if Shade is present?

3.) If this applies to Loki and Shade and there is not to be an exception for Shade, couldn't we just change Invisibility to cause damage/aggro upon ending, so Shade would uncloak, too?

 

Let's go from here.

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I personally am perfectly fine playing without my Shade. I've modded my Loki for a very long duration invisibility, about 30 seconds or so. But it could be a good idea to make Shade cloak either when

1) Loki starts taking damage to health

2) Loki runs out of energy

3) Enemies have not been alerted yet

Edited by bejuizb
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Here's the gist of it, DE side. It is paraphrased, but as accurate as I can reproduce it:

 

Loki's invisibility, if it would cloak his Sentinel would result in endless invisibility. The current system is in place because it is intentional, by design. The "bug" is submitted regularly and rejected as "not a bug, but intentional". Yet, there is awareness of the issue itself, and there are plans to address it.

 

 

Now, moving along, this raises some questions.

 

1.) If this applies to Loki, why does it not apply to Ash?

2.) If this applies to Loki and Shade, why not have a check in place that only applies if Shade is present?

3.) If this applies to Loki and Shade and there is not to be an exception for Shade, couldn't we just change Invisibility to cause damage/aggro upon ending, so Shade would uncloak, too?

 

Let's go from here.

 

 

um... i have a bit of cognitive dissonance with this posting.

it's not a bug, it's intentional, and there are plans to address it? 

 

are we saying that it's "not quite right?" and we're gonna go back to it?

 

i agree with Cy13erpunk in that this isn't a high-priority compared to other issues. (armor 2.0, serious host migration bugs / issues in survival missions, the list goes on) however... clarification would be nice.

 

the last thread (referenced above) was locked (for good reason, it had decended into total chaos)

 

personally, i find the sentinels to be nice to have on the loki, but it is basically a 1/5th of the mission helper.

going galatine slaughtering invisible loki god-mode murderer = sentinel death. (almost immediately)

now, i'm not against this... consistency between loki and ash would be useful. 

 

if this is "working as intended" then why the added "we'll look into it" after numerous previous posts about "it's a bug, we'll fix it in update 8" 

um.... (looks at watch)

 

i'm not saying anything needs to change, all i'd like is a complete answer. if that's going to happen during a live-stream GREAT!

but having clarification is needed. this is a long-standing issue with no clear answer.

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it's not a bug, it's intentional, and there are plans to address it?

 

Breaking it down again.

 

It seems like a bug or an oversight, which wouldn't be the first time that happened. Yet, the reason why Loki doesn't cloak his Sentinel is the interaction between that and Shade. The resulting questions - see above. Now, it needs addressing, because it is obviously an unsatisfying work-around. Yet, when Sentinels came out in U7, it was more than likely an afterthought to stop Loki's hijinks there, whereas Ash got the better end of the bargain.

 

That needs to be sorted and equalized. But since that means touching a Warframe not on the list yet, it has been postponed multiple times. According to Scott, he is aware of the issue and is looking for a more satisfactory solution with unclear ETA.

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breaking what down again?

 

i'm totally aware of what you posted, and i understand the problem, the solutions given and the issues that are pertinent... 

what i don't understand is the total lack of a clear response. 

 

your last sentence is what i wanted.

 

According to Scott, he is aware of the issue and is looking for a more satisfactory solution with unclear ETA.

 

so thanks =D

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It is not a bug. It is intentional design, due to consequences of it working differently.

 

That design pickle needs solving.

i thought it's a bit of both. Seeing as Loki was in game before sentinels so they had no synergy issues or whatevs to worry about, then they added sentinels and noticed "whoops perma invis!" Maybe Ashes invis works with sentinels because it's been build with them from the get go?

 

But this raises the question, how are they different? From what I understand only difference is sound effects and Loki getting yellow tint and Ash invis is shorter.

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I don't see the issue DE has with combining Shade and Invisibility, Shades cloak ending 1.when out of range 2.when any attack is performed.

And even with Ash, Cloak activates while you're already under the effect of smoke screen. It's not like they follow each other nicely.

 

Endless invisibility doesn't seem that easy to me...

 

I mean, if the point is keeping people from going through a mission without ever leaving stealth (for rushing purposes I guess), you can already do that. Just unequip your sentinel. And it's even easier now with the duration Corrupted mod.

So it only hurts the large community of Loki players who don't abuse invisibility, and want to benefit from their sentinel (Shade or not). That's harsh. 

Edited by Thelonious
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If this is intended, it doesn't still quite justify it. Yeah I understand that the amount of spent Invisible would be a lot, but why to punish the few Warframes because they have invisibility abilities. The other Frame, Loki, almost solely relies on that ability and Ash doesn't need it all that much, only time to times. Why then to have the abilities if they neglect Shade just because they had a specific kind of ability. Wouldn't it then make sense that if invisibility is such a majorly better ability than others that any Frame wouldn't have ability at all.

Of course it would suck a lot when it comes to those Frames but it doesn't make sense to punish those Frames either just because they combo well with a certain sentinel. 

Edited by BETAOPTICS
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Total invisibility is tough to achieve, but it is quite possible with Narrow Minded put into the mix. Ash did get the better end of the deal, I agree. But till this gets fixed, might I suggest using Loki alone without any sentinel. I I so that that was not the topic of this thread, but until this gets revised/fixed, that is the best all of us Loki users can do.

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