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Shadow Of The Dead - The Unhelping Nekros


7grims
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Shadow of the Dead!

One of the worst abilities currently in game!

 

This ability of nekros, as already been talked as been a copy of Nyx ability, and therefore not being very original.

But for me its an ability, that isn't helping the team reach a goal, but actually when this ability is cast, it seems that nekros is doing his best to see all team players dead and too lose the mission.

 

Nekros is a frame for advance users, or it should be, cause nowadays ppl just like to play with him or have a nekros in team, witch I think its always a bad strategy, cause ppl seriously need to learn how to use it.

I've seen teams after teams fall cause of nekros users always spam shadow of the dead... so... we are in tight spot at defence or protecting a hostage, or we might even get overcrowded by a faction, what does the nekro player do? He spawns more npc's, like the battlefield isn't already a mess, he decides its a good idea to create even more chaos.

 

I'm not an expert of nekros, and I've seen ppl trying to teach and make tutorials of how to use nekros, and for all players that are new (noobs) or even for players who never used nekros, they need to take a serious 101 class for nekros use.

This is just a little tip, if u are in defence, don't spam the shadow of the dead right next to the pod, were all the team mates are, and were a clear view of the pod and the action is needed. Go spawn the shadow warriors next to enemy spawn points, or in doors were they come from, or in strategic passages were they have to pass to reach the pod.

It may be a good idea, if the developers, change the spot were shadow warriors are risen, instead of around the nekros, make them spawn were he is pointing at, just like loky can create is hologram far from him, or even vauban trows aways is little gadget that spawns the bastille.

 

For personal use, if nekros is in a dangerous spot and overcrowded, but yet he doesn't have team mates to help him, this ability feels like a good crowd control tool, but the time it takes for u too spawn them (the ability animation), is the time u take to die.

So yet again, this just confirms the many problems this ability causes.

 

Feel free to call me a nekros hater, as long as u leave serious suggestions and critics.

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nekros needs some luv. As does a bunch of other frames.

 

I had an idea for nekros' shadows of the dead that brings with it a new system to teh game.... Maybe I'll go post it and edit in a link to this post.

 

aaand here it be: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/120801-i-heard-you-like-tf2-and-warframe-so-why-not-make-like-exhibit-and/

Edited by Stinker
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for those of us that don't play nekros (and have no interest -- really, he just seems useless to me beyond increasing o2 drops in survival) i hate this ability.

 

with all the spectacular effects going on, it's sometimes very difficult to distinguish between the spawned mobs and the real ones. leads to wasted ammo, loss of dps. etc.

 

i already get the rageface whenever a player steps into my line of fire because they're not paying attention, and this freakin' guy spawns a ton of mobs to block lines of fire more? i'll be honest, i sigh whenever i see someone spamming this. 

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You fail to realize Nekros is squishy, the mobs around him give a proper defense to him and distract the enemy...

 

Just jump on a crate and continue killin stuff when nekros uses shadows.

 

Its not that Nekros users dont know how to play, its probably some of them dont know, and people alongside got so lazy to the point they want to stand still and shoot, instead of them also learning how to play and position themselves better.

 

So the same criticism towards Nekros players you are making goes towards you.

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You fail to realize Nekros is squishy, the mobs around him give a proper defense to him and distract the enemy...

 

Just jump on a crate and continue killin stuff when nekros uses shadows.

 

Its not that Nekros users dont know how to play, its probably some of them dont know, and people alongside got so lazy to the point they want to stand still and shoot, instead of them also learning how to play and position themselves better.

 

So the same criticism towards Nekros players you are making goes towards you.

 

normally i'd just ignore a post like this, but nah. i'm gonna answer this one.

 

survival. this mode + nekros is irritating. there aren't always "crates" to stand on. (plus that's a recipe for death as it's not like you have any mobility up there) positioning? seriously? when you have a space about the size of my arm to fire through due to the 8 guys standing in your way due to this ability? no... this is just frustrating. when a nekros starts doing this, i find some other front to fight on. usually i'm not the only one, which leaves poor nekros there with all his buddies and no player backup. (i've frequently seen "blah is down" shortly after leaving him to his fate) otherwise i get to stand around and watch ineffective green npc's shooting walls because the AI isn't very bright.

 

i'm not attacking nekros players, i'm attacking the skill. the concept is interesting, in practice, it's just frustrating.

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Exaggerating much...

 

Nyx Chaos doesn't work that way, it makes enemies attack anything living closest to them while SotD creates loyal fighters (which is never a bad thing unless they are improperly rendered as normal enemies) and if you hide in that crowd, you are very unlikely to be attacked.

 

Nekros is not meant for solo: very fragile (666 shield with maxed Redirection }:) ), no immediate crowd-control power, requires strategic planning on uses of powers to be efficient as stationary support.

Edited by ntyd1s
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Nekros isnt completely useless and spamming his ability is actually helpful if you haven't noticed, his shadows draw agro, so its instantaneously protects what ever needs protection, and if the nekros is smart and has a good weapon, he will only focus on killing heavy mobs, like ancient healers, so the team can get heals or heavy gunners and napalm for the extra fire power. so really its not a copy of nyx power, cause what that does is make enemies attack themselves and anything in rage so if your to close you will still get hit, shadows of the dead clones killed enemies and turns them into nanobot slaves. its not that people dont know how to use it, its just how fun it is to have a constant army of heavy greener at your side, and one the topic of, being able to change the spot were the shadows go... just no, Nekros doesnt have invisibility while casting like other frames, shadows has a pretty long cast time, one which u can die in, casting shadows around nekros protects him from incoming damage, and since he is still in the cast the shadows dont receive any of the damage inflicted till the cast is done, so being able to 'throw' his cast somewhere might make him even more squishy in heavy circumstances 

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As an avid Nekros player, I completely agree.  I use pretty much only use Shadows of the Dead when playing solo for this reason.  I will say that he is a boon to survival with Desecrate.  Plus Soul Punch and Terrify are good CC, but Shadows of the Dead needs some tweaks for it be more helpful to the team.

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Shadow of the dead only needs fixed ai and fixed effects that sometimes not appear

dunno what u dislike besides 2 obvious generic(?) bugs

using it in small hallway is issue connected to player not to ability

 

nekros+frost+nyx = every mob is your friend and the pod is safe

thats the equation that is proven working when not fooling around

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No, it's an issue connected to the ability.  Anything that lets you create indestructible roadblocks is a bad idea.  If unwise use of a skill hurts the user, that's OK.  If unwise use of a skill hurts the other players, that's a problem.

 

Between them being totally invulnerable and showing up on the minimap as enemies if you have radar or sense, even before taking into account the bug with appearance it's a troll skill.

 

I propose that they be turned into shadow for other players.  To enemies and the casting Nekros, they are solid.  For the other player, they are incorporeal - you can walk or shoot right through them.   And they need to either show up as allies on the minimap, or not show up at all.

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Shadow of the dead only needs fixed ai and fixed effects that sometimes not appear

dunno what u dislike besides 2 obvious generic(?) bugs

using it in small hallway is issue connected to player not to ability

 

nekros+frost+nyx = every mob is your friend and the pod is safe

thats the equation that is proven working when not fooling around

 

absolutely. when not in close quarters requiring high-dps output and mobility, this is a fantastic skill (read: endless defense, etc)

but it's very situation dependent. 

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for those of us that don't play nekros (and have no interest -- really, he just seems useless to me beyond increasing o2 drops in survival) i hate this ability.

 

with all the spectacular effects going on, it's sometimes very difficult to distinguish between the spawned mobs and the real ones. leads to wasted ammo, loss of dps. etc.

 

i already get the rageface whenever a player steps into my line of fire because they're not paying attention, and this freakin' guy spawns a ton of mobs to block lines of fire more? i'll be honest, i sigh whenever i see someone spamming this. 

Your comment is filled with redundancies, take a moment to think about what you'll say instead of jumping on a bandwagon.

Edited by __Kanade__
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normally i'd just ignore a post like this, but nah. i'm gonna answer this one.

 

survival. this mode + nekros is irritating. there aren't always "crates" to stand on. (plus that's a recipe for death as it's not like you have any mobility up there) positioning? seriously? when you have a space about the size of my arm to fire through due to the 8 guys standing in your way due to this ability? no... this is just frustrating. when a nekros starts doing this, i find some other front to fight on. usually i'm not the only one, which leaves poor nekros there with all his buddies and no player backup. (i've frequently seen "blah is down" shortly after leaving him to his fate) otherwise i get to stand around and watch ineffective green npc's shooting walls because the AI isn't very bright.

 

i'm not attacking nekros players, i'm attacking the skill. the concept is interesting, in practice, it's just frustrating.

 

You are complaining about bad use of a power.

 

I can list many things that are bad use of skills...

 

A frost doing globes in places that block fire and give mobs a defensive approach towards you, people that spawn camps, before Vortex got changed people that would use it in tight spots, and so forth.

 

One thing is to criticize people for not knowing how to play, another is to whine and say its the frames fault. Nekros, when well used is amazing, Solo or in group.

 

Ive reached 30 mins solo on a T3 Survival using him, without barely using Desecrate, thanks to his Shadows.

 

And have done more in a team using his Shadows, also reached wave 40 on Xini thanks to his set of powers. He is a well balanced frame, now if somebody uses him badly then its the persons fault, not the frame.

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  • 1 month later...

nekros is my main warframe, though I agree people should learn how to play him. I typically, in heavy situations will cast fear and then cast SoD so my spawns will chase down and kill the enemy, there for not causing cluster and simultaneously giving us a minute to breath. I rarely use SoD when in team play because I rely on myself and my team and save my heavy undead team for special circumstances. I also make sure my spawns on different enough in color to not be mistaken for regular NPCs and if you do mistake them then you are blind lol. I think people do need to be less lazy however and learn to maniuver around a bit more because after all, we are freaking ninjas and unless forced, trying to just be lazy and stay in one spot is absurd. So in short players using nekros, it takes practice and spamming SoD is not smart nor helpful. Its a waste of potential, and players whom are being lazy... Quit it -_- lol (p.s. sorry if there is any spelling or grammar issues I'm on my stupid phone lol)

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From what I can see, with his Desecrate and Shadows of the Dead ability, Nekros is most useful in defense missions. Especially since with the AI pathing for Shadows, trying to take them anywhere appears to be a real problem. Therefore they are probably most effective whenever you have to buckle down and stay in one spot. That might be something to take into consideration.

 

As for Shadows being a total copy of Nyx's Chaos, I disagree. While they do both serve the purpose of generating allies, remember that enemies under the thrall of Chaos will:

 

- Still attack you.

- Still have to be killed for the sake of Exterminate or Defense missions.

 

Whereas Shadows:

 

- Won't attack you.

- Don't count as enemies for Exterminate or Defense missions.

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since this thread started i've gotten nekros and leveled him to 30.

i've done a large amount of survival & endless defense with him.

i love the frame.

 

i still think SOtD is a pain.

 

If you want to lock down an entrance with them to cover your flank, or toss them out in front of the group as cannon fodder, it's good.

When you start launching it in the middle of your group, however, you should be beaten in front of your children with a hammer.

 

At a distance in the dark you can't tell the difference between the SotD mobs and regular ones.

When something like ember is throwing fire all over the place and visibility is limited... even worse.

 

I said it before, it's situationally dependent in the extreme and most people have no idea how to properly use it.

Most try to use it as a panic button, and generally causes more problems than it solves.

 

End result, if you don't know how to use nekros and shadows of the dead.... don't use it.

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I said it before, it's situationally dependent in the extreme and most people have no idea how to properly use it.

Most try to use it as a panic button, and generally causes more problems than it solves.

 

End result, if you don't know how to use nekros and shadows of the dead.... don't use it.

 

Yes, you understand me well :)

If nekros even haves an panic button, that should be terrified.

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I'm level 26 with my nekros ill probably level it up tonigth.

 

if you are overwhelmed by enemies better cast your terrify then Shadow's Don't mess other's players visibility.

 

Now Can i have a couple of questions?

It is me or Soul punch its incredible hard to cast?

Let me explain,a lot of times the "Can't find a target" message pop's up.

Specially againts those pesky grineers with shields.

Also about shadows of the dead

Its about the animation and the I.A

 

A lot of times againts infested they spawn but do nothing,or you get knocked down while casting it.

 

I would suggest a 3 sec inmune to knockback/CC while casting shadow's of the dead,as well improving the I.A making them more aggresive.

EDIT:That only happens actually with infested units

Edited by Shelter92
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Nekros is pretty good if you know how to use him, but yeah shadows is near useless.

-It takes a while to cast, during which mr squishy is ripe for the picking.

-The summons can occasionally show up without the black aura looking identical to normal enemies, that even fooled me plenty of times.

-The AI is lacking, or sometimes completely doesn't work. Spawning useless npc's so they can block your sight/movement isn't very useful.

-They die far too fast, with the exception of heavies. Just 1 arid eviscerator managed to wipe out majority of my summons in a few seconds. (granted eviscerators are rather op atm)

 

I'll just stick to Fleeting Expertise + Focus + Stretch for my necros though. Spammable long range terrify, desecrate & soul punch ftw.

And Shelter, jeah soul punch is a bit annoying to aim but it's still quite good.

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As a player who has played Nekros almost exclusively for about a month I have to disagree.

First, Soul Punch is a far less useful ability to the point where I forma'd an ability slot and don't even bother equipping it. Sure, it's fun to watch enemies fly but most of the time it's just faster to shoot them. Soul Punch needs to be a true AoE or a cone damage skill to be worth equipping.

Second, Shadows of the dead is as good as a Nekros player is. You shouldn't be spamming it, that's true. As a Nekros you should Desecrate all the time and make sure it's always you who actually kills Heavies, Napalms, Ancients and such. Be mindful of what you kill. Leave usual mobs to your teammates. Death is a favor, don't go distributing it with a lavish hand. This way you'll be able to unleash hell when S#&$ hits the fan.

Third, there are far more annoying abilities that are abused by players. Mag's Pull when it's no longer strong enough to kill keeps dragging Heavies right to where the group is, they stand up and knock everyone off their feet. Loki's Radial Disarm when you are using a sniper rifle. There are others, these are just one of the more apparent examples.

Edited by Aspartux
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As a player who has played Nekros almost exclusively for about a month I have to disagree.

First, Soul Punch is a far less useful ability to the point where I forma'd an ability slot and don't even bother equipping it. Sure, it's fun to watch enemies fly but most of the time it's just faster to shoot them. Soul Punch needs to be a true AoE or a cone damage skill to be worth equipping.

Second, Shadows of the dead is as good as a Nekros player is. You shouldn't be spamming it, that's true. As a Nekros you should Desecrate all the time and make sure it's always you who actually kills Heavies, Napalms, Ancients and such. Be mindful of what you kill. Leave usual mobs to your teammates. Death is a favor, don't go distributing it with a lavish hand. This way you'll be able to unleash hell when S#&$ hits the fan.

Third, there a far more annoying abilities that are abused by players. Mag's Pull when it's no longer strong enough to kill keeps dragging Heavies right to where the group is, they stand up and knock everyone off their feet. Loki's Radial Disarm when you are using a sniper rifle. There are others, these are just one of the more apparent examples.

 

 

It's okay to work around the shortcomings, but those shortcomings need to be looked at.

 

You can get a glimpse of how well Soul Punch works if you use it from an elevated position. Using it from higher up will cause the secondary projectile to shoot into the ground, causing AoE damage to nearby enemies and ragdolling them. It can even be a more effective "ohS#&$" skill than Terrify. Terrify suffers from a long cast time that forces you to remain stationary, and also cost a good bit of energy to use. If enemies are on top of me, I'll actual jump into the air to cast Soul Punch on the closest enemy, knocking him down along with anyone else caught in the AoE.

 

With that in mind, I'd like to see the secondary projectile to be scrapped and replaced with that same kind of AoE. I don't think this will happen tho.

 

I do not completely agree with your opinion that Shadows of the Dead is only as good as the player. There are legitimate problems with the Shadow AI, and not just little things to be nit-picky about. Please don't excuse those problems away by just saying that people are not good enough to know how to use it. That's not the problem people have with it.

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