So uh, what happened to focusing on the "war" in 2020?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

I doubt that as an online only stream is much easier to accomplish.

Read it again, and actually think about it this time. It's not just a matter of venue. It's a matter of what format and how to make the presentation work. 

Remember when you sit at home and do a zoom meeting with grandma and uncle Joe, thats one thing but they have to do a meeting, that's simultaneously being streamed out onto multiple platforms, and probably taking questions/interactions from up to around a half million viewers (based on last year's numbers). They have to get all presentations and panels to be handed off as seamlessly as possible, they have to organize and do test runs on the system to make sure that they can keep everything from going off the rails. They may have needed to do ridiculously basic things like get a bunch of folks a better webcam. 

Remember, they had years to figure out all of these things for the convention, having a stage on which to present is nice because it allows us to use body language like dramatic gestures with the prepared speeches, the technical support staff would have refined the process year after year, and very important for any presenter, the crowd gives immediate and measurable feedback, allowing you to adjust on the fly. 

Changing the format deprives you of all of those and you need to figure out how you're going to make those changes. 

That's why. 

17 minutes ago, markus230 said:

If you want to get super literal. If they are shipping what they show, everything, exactly as we see it on Tennocon is the exact same way as it will be when it ships, right? If there are bugs in the Tennocon build, they "ship what they show", so they will ship it with bugs, right?

And if Tennocon build that is shown is what will be shipped, what's the point of releasing it at a later date? Tennocon build is done, so public build is done, so it can be shipped.

So stop with the: "Um, actually". Steve just chose his words poorly

Steve didn't, he said one thing, very clearly. It's a matter of people who want to hype themselves up, mentally adding other things that they want to hear. Watch the video again. Transcribe exactly what he said, without trying to do the whole "he said x that must mean that he intends to do y" like you just attempted to do in this post and then look at it on the paper. 

You might find it surprising that he just said what he said, and you supplied the rest. 

[markus230]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Steve didn't, he said one thing, very clearly. It's a matter of people who want to hype themselves up, mentally adding other things that they want to hear. Watch the video again. Transcribe exactly what he said, without trying to do the whole "he said x that must mean that he intends to do y" like you just attempted to do in this post and then look at it on the paper. 

You might find it surprising that he just said what he said, and you supplied the rest. 

"We ship what we show". He didn't say "We ship what we show once it's done", or "Part of what we ship we will show you at Tennocon".

All that matters is, "We ship what we show" quote is now being passed around, and it was to be expected. And many players take it as promise of releasing the update right after Tennocon, and it's understandable that some players took it this way.

And now we've got big Warframe Youtubers saying that an update is launching during Tennocon. That's on Steve, that's how talking to public works, you have to make sure what you say can't be misinterpreted. "We ship what we show" could have meant both, that the update will be ready to go during Tennocon, or that DE will simply show us something that will definetly make it into the game, instead of demos that look nothing like end product

[(PSN)Silverback73]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Read it again, and actually think about it this time. It's not just a matter of venue. It's a matter of what format and how to make the presentation work. 

Remember when you sit at home and do a zoom meeting with grandma and uncle Joe, thats one thing but they have to do a meeting, that's simultaneously being streamed out onto multiple platforms, and probably taking questions/interactions from up to around a half million viewers (based on last year's numbers). They have to get all presentations and panels to be handed off as seamlessly as possible, they have to organize and do test runs on the system to make sure that they can keep everything from going off the rails. They may have needed to do ridiculously basic things like get a bunch of folks a better webcam. 

Remember, they had years to figure out all of these things for the convention, having a stage on which to present is nice because it allows us to use body language like dramatic gestures with the prepared speeches, the technical support staff would have refined the process year after year, and very important for any presenter, the crowd gives immediate and measurable feedback, allowing you to adjust on the fly. 

Changing the format deprives you of all of those and you need to figure out how you're going to make those changes. 

That's why. 

Steve didn't, he said one thing, very clearly. It's a matter of people who want to hype themselves up, mentally adding other things that they want to hear. Watch the video again. Transcribe exactly what he said, without trying to do the whole "he said x that must mean that he intends to do y" like you just attempted to do in this post and then look at it on the paper. 

You might find it surprising that he just said what he said, and you supplied the rest. 

Given context, though, there is an undeniable suggestion.

You need to be intellectually honest on this from both sides.

When have you EVER in any of the past Tennocons heard Steve say or relate via media, prior to, the phrase “We plan to ship what we show”...especially with releasing a statement that The New War and Duviri are, again, not ready?

August 1st could have been about logistics or Tencent/Sony or having SOMETHING to release at Tennocon (Heart of Deimos, maybe?).

I’m not going to conjecture/speculate at this point.

But what I will say is that when Steve uses the phrase “We will ship what we show”, you can’t EVER expect that the suggestion there isn’t anything BUT that what we will show you is playable content that will immediately ship to be played.

That Pandora’s box is open, and he knows it.

[Loza03]

5 hours ago, (XB1)Cram Duahcim said:

o why push back Tenncom then? It's not like they spent 2 tennocons showing Railjack in two different iterations before....so why delay now? Why delay essentially an extended devstream when you never ship anything that your debuting?  The only reason why you would delay is to at least attempt to ship an update. Not assigning a date dosent mean that they are at least attempting to ship something. As soon as they announced the date change, I had a feeling that was the goal this year as this year: it allows them to pull this off. 

PC gets Deimos...console gets The Steel Path. Why else would you delay? It's got to be the studio's goal. And if this is the case: it could set a yearly goal for DE to not only show things, but to release content on the date of the convention which I would think the community would really appreciate. 

Heart of Deimos likely wasn't the original Demo (or at least not the main focus) - it was probably something like TNW or Duviri. Since that's not on the books, they needed to scrap whatever demo was already put together, and then put together something demo-able for Deimos. That likely includes getting it in a presentable state, and likely incorporating some demo elements.

Bear in mind, DE have tried the 'show it off, and release the same day' schtick before. For Empyrean. And I don't doubt that disaster is still fresh in their minds.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Given context, though, there is an undeniable suggestion.

Yes it was specifically - it won't be months and months down the road. That's very different from making a jump to - it will be released instantly. 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

When have you EVER in any of the past Tennocons heard Steve say or relate via media, prior to, the phrase “We plan to ship what we show”...especially with releasing a statement that The New War and Duviri are, again, not ready?

Again, does that phrase indicate a time? It's a simple question. 

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

But what I will say is that when Steve uses the phrase “We will ship what we show”, you can’t EVER expect that the suggestion there isn’t anything BUT that what we will show you playable content that will immediately ship to be played.

I still think that you are reading something that is not actually on the page. 

15 minutes ago, markus230 said:

We ship what we show". He didn't say "We ship what we show once it's done", or "Part of what we ship we will show you at Tennocon".

Yeah you're actually demonstrating that you're still trying to add parts in to what was said. Go back and watch it again and pay attention to what was said. Especially the part about the months. Write it out if you need to. I think it may change your perspective. 

[markus230]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah you're actually demonstrating that you're still trying to add parts in to what was said. Go back and watch it again and pay attention to what was said. Especially the part about the months. Write it out if you need to. I think it may change your perspective. 

I didn't add anything. "Ship what we show" means, that what will be shown, will get shipped. That's the most literal way of interpreting Steve's words. And if what we see in the Tennocon build is supposed to be what gets shipped, that would mean the Tennocon build is ready to be shipped. If Tennocon build has a bug, and DE fixes it before shipping, then something was shown at the Tennocon that wasn't in the release build, and that would make Steve a liar.

Obviously that's ridiculous to expect DE to ship buggy build just because they shown it. But that is the most literal interpretation of what was said by Steve. You are the one adding stuff like "We ship what we show, but that doesn't mean what we show is all that will be shipped, or that what we are showing is ready"

I just took your post:

3 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

It's a tiny matter of "not adding in the 'when part' just because you want it immediately and so choose to believe that you will get it immediately". 

And changed it to fit the other side of the argument. Your point was that Steve didn't say when, so it must be later. I've said that if Steve didn't say "when it's done", so it must be done already.

Here is exactly what Steve said:

"the good news with this is what we're going to try to do this year is not show you a demo that we ship months and months later we hope to uh ship what we show"

It IS confusing. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be as many confused people. Pretty simple. The issue is that Steve contrasts two things, with one. And all you can do is guess which contrast is the one he meant. Did he mean that as a contrast to showing us a demo that is unrepresentative of what the update will actually look like, they will just "ship what they show". Or does he mean that as a contrast to showing us something that takes months to release, they will just "ship what they show".

It can be taken either way. It's like saying, "last year we spent our holidays in Croatia during summer, this year we are going to do it differently". Does that mean that this you are going to a different place for holidays? Or does that mean you are going to go on holidays to the same place, but at a different time? Or maybe both (In case of Steve's quote, "both" doesn't work, because you can't ship an unrepresentative Demo at Tennocon, because then it's not unrepresentative). You don't know, there is not enough information in a sentence to figure out what the person meant.

[Corvid]

7 minutes ago, markus230 said:

I didn't add anything. "Ship what we show" means, that what will be shown, will get shipped.

Yes, and that does not imply a timeframe. It just means that what we see will not be changed when it actually launches. It doesn't mean it's going to literally launch on the day.

[SneakyErvin]

11 minutes ago, markus230 said:

I didn't add anything. "Ship what we show" means, that what will be shown, will get shipped. That's the most literal way of interpreting Steve's words. And if what we see in the Tennocon build is supposed to be what gets shipped, that would mean the Tennocon build is ready to be shipped. If Tennocon build has a bug, and DE fixes it before shipping, then something was shown at the Tennocon that wasn't in the release build, and that would make Steve a liar.

No definently it wouldnt. We've seen and experienced other things shipped as they were shown, but never with the same build as shown. There are still bugs and balancing surrounding these things, this is mearly around the content they show regarding what will be shipped. That doesnt mean that there arent a month or so more work that needs to be put in in order to get it in a working state for the majority of hardware and software setup out there. 

Scarlet Spear is a prime example of something shipped exactly as it was shown, which still took weeks to get ready due to balancing and bugs. You are really going full strawman with your bug comment and shows you have no idea about how game development works. So freakin sad and hilarious at the same time, good job!

[markus230]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

Yes, and that does not imply a timeframe. It just means that what we see will not be changed when it actually launches. It doesn't mean it's going to literally launch on the day.

If it won't be changed. Why wait with the release? As I said, two can play that game

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

No definently it wouldnt. We've seen and experienced other things shipped as they were shown, but never with the same build as shown. There are still bugs and balancing surrounding these things

If DE doesn't ship those bugs, it's not shipped as it was shown. See you guys are starting to understand, that you can infer something from a sentence, even if that wasn't directly stated

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

1 minute ago, markus230 said:

If it won't be changed. Why wait with the release? As I said, two can play that game

Probably because of game breaking bugs or polishing

[markus230]

2 hours ago, (XB1)C11H22O11 said:

Probably because of game breaking bugs or polishing

If "We ship what we show" is to be taken literaly, and bugs are shown. Bugs are going to be shipped.

My point is that when you say something, people can infer something that wasn't directly stated. Steve didn't say that they will ship what they show, except for bugs. But we can infer that this is what he meant, because it's obvious that if the game crashes to desktop during Tennocon, DE won't ship the upadte with the CTD included just because that's what we saw at the presentation.

Same with release date. Steve didn't say that we are going to get the upadate at Tennocon, but depending on how you interpret what he meant, it can be inferred that this is what they are aiming for

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, markus230 said:

I didn't add anything. "Ship what we show" means, that what will be shown, will get shipped. That's the most literal way of interpreting Steve's words.

Good, good, you're on to something here. Let's keep going. 

2 minutes ago, markus230 said:

And if what we see in the Tennocon build is supposed to be what gets shipped, that would mean the Tennocon build is ready to be shipped.

Of FFS! You were doing so well. You got through a whole two sentences this time! 

Look. Try it again. Actual transcription this time. 

5 minutes ago, markus230 said:

Here is exactly what Steve said:

"the good news with this is what we're going to try to do this year is not show you a demo that we ship months and months later we hope to uh ship what we show"

It IS confusing.

No it's very plain. They typically show stuff waaaay in advance of it being ready. We're talking many months away. The presentation involves proof of concept, tied together to make it look like something we might encounter in the game, but often they let us know that there are parts that aren't finished yet.

He's said that it won't be the case this time, that it will be something that can be rolled out more rapidly than "months and months later". Nothing confusing about that. It only becomes "confusing" when the listener decides to add their own spin to what he said and others point out that wasn't actually what was said. Why would people put their own spin? Because what he said didn't give a specific date and you want one, specifically an immediate release. 

16 minutes ago, markus230 said:

It can be taken either way. It's like saying, "last year we spent our holidays in Croatia during summer, this year we are going to do it differently". Does that mean that this you are going to a different place for holidays? Or does that mean you are going to go on holidays to the same place, but at a different time? Or maybe both (In case of Steve's quote, "both" doesn't work, because you can't ship an unrepresentative Demo at Tennocon, because then it's not unrepresentative). You don't know, there is not enough information in a sentence to figure out what the person meant.

No, Tenno. A lack of information doesn't mean that I can take it either way. It means that I can't take it either way because I don't know what you mean. It would be wrong of me to go telling everyone that you are going to a different place, or at a different time, or both, because I don't know what you meant. That's what you have been doing here, taking something that was said, and adding bits and pieces to it in your head until you have something that wasn't actually said, presenting it as fact, and saying "that's what he said". 

He didn't say when it would ship, other than "not months and months away". You picked the interpretation that you like the most, and are presenting that as what is going on. That's on you. It doesn't matter if I hope for the same thing as you, because I recognize that isn't what he actually said. 

[(PSN)SolarPhantom82]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We plan to ship what we show ≠ We plan to ship what we show on the day that we show it. 

There's a subtle difference between the two, you see. It's a tiny matter of "not adding in the 'when part' just because you want it immediately and so choose to believe that you will get it immediately". 

And when you get around to publishing video games of equal or greater value or scope, with a team composed of a similar number of people, during a global pandemic well that's the day I'll take your assessment, of how long it takes to get stuff ready, seriously. 

Or, you know, establish that you have a firm grip on reality by not blatantly adding in the things you want to hear to an announcement. That would probably work too, but might take longer to happen than the first option. 

Yeah I don't know why your coming across so attacking.   I didn't saying anything. .  Just what some are saying.

..  Rebb said "will they ship an update on the day of tennocon" .  " not necessarily "  meaning could go both ways. .but I think they want to try. ..  So chill with the passive aggressiveness. ...

[markus230]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Of FFS! You were doing so well. You got through a whole two sentences this time!

If everything that is shown is going to be shipped, that's whats happening. No bug fixes, no features except for what you've seen on your screen.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, Tenno. A lack of information doesn't mean that I can take it either way.

Then why are you assuming that "ship what we show" applies only to content being shown, if it might just as well apply to the date of the release. WE DON'T KNOW. Is your assumption safer? Yes, doesn't mean it's true

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You picked the interpretation that you like the most, and are presenting that as what is going on. That's on you. It doesn't matter if I hope for the same thing as you, because I recognize that isn't what he actually said. 

That's a straight up strawman, all I've said that what Steve said can be interpreted in different ways, not that I think an update will be shipped at Tennocon. I don't think that in fact. But I can see why people would think that. Just look into the comments section of the video, pretty much all of the comments are happy about update being shipped at August 1st. Something clearly went wrong with the communication, and you refuse to accept that Steve chose his words poorly.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No, Tenno. A lack of information doesn't mean that I can take it either way. It means that I can't take it either way because I don't know what you mean.

A lack of information means, that you can't conclude which version is true, but due to lack of information all you can do is either fill the gaps yourself and speculate, or assume nothing. Thing is, people like to speculate, and if their vision proves to be wrong, they get disappointed and angry, that's why you give people precise information, instead of something vague. It's just bad PR.

[Felsagger]

27 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 You are really going full strawman with your bug comment and shows you have no idea about how game development works. So freakin sad and hilarious at the same time, good job!

Classical Sneaky Ervin trolling. 

What is ironic is that you come here to a forum board critiquing other users instead of talking about the game. Don't pick on people, you can end up being critiqued harshly too. 

 

just sayin'. 

[SneakyErvin]

30 minutes ago, markus230 said:

If DE doesn't ship those bugs, it's not shipped as it was shown. See you guys are starting to understand, that you can infer something from a sentence, even if that wasn't directly stated

Again, strawman. Just that you keep going is so silly.

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

Classical Sneaky Ervin trolling. 

What is ironic is that you come here to a forum board critiquing other users instead of talking about the game. Don't pick on people, you can end up being critiqued harshly too. 

 

just sayin'. 

No because it is an absurd strawman and nothing else.

[markus230]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Again, strawman. Just that you keep going is so silly.

No because it is an absurd strawman and nothing else.

I don't think you know what "strawman" means. "Strawmanning" is a situation where you put words in another persons mouth, and argue against those words. At no point have I done such a thing.

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, markus230 said:

I don't think you know what "strawman" means. "Strawmanning" is a situation where you put words in another persons mouth, and argue against those words. At no point have I done such a thing.

It also refers to grabbing for straws, which is what you do here when you imply bugs = content so should be kept if they've said WYSIWYG.

edit: You are in essence exaggerating and distorting what Steve ment and what WYSIWYG means. It doesnt get more strawman than that.

[markus230]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It also refers to grabbing for straws, which is what you do here when you imply bugs = content so should be kept if they've said WYSIWYG.

Oh boy, that's hilarious. That's NOT what strawman means. Seriously, before you start using a term, read up on what it even means.

Just because Strawman, and "Grasping at Straws" have a word "Straw" in them, doesn't make them related at all.

 

Also, just so you know, my comment about bugs being kept because they were shown was meant as an argument as to why you can't take everything said 100% literally, because that's not how humans talk. We can safely assume that DE won't keep the bugs, despite them not saying that. It was a counter point to other people saying that Steve didn't say "when", so it can't be that he meant Update will be released at Tennocon, but due to how Steve formulated the sentence, it can be inferred that they will launch the update at the Tennocon, even if that isn't what he meant. The only thing I am saying is that Steve chose his words poorly, and it's his fault for leaving the playerbase with a vague statement that could mean a few different things

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)SolarPhantom82 said:

Yeah I don't know why your coming across so attacking.   I didn't saying anything. .  Just what some are saying.

..  Rebb said "will they ship an update on the day of tennocon" .  " not necessarily "  meaning could go both ways. .but I think they want to try. ..  So chill with the passive aggressiveness. ...

Try that one again being sure to quote what was actually said. Other than that, repeating something you know does not come from official sources, doesn't make it any less unrealistic. 

6 minutes ago, markus230 said:

If everything that is shown is going to be shipped, that's whats happening. No bug fixes, no features except for what you've seen on your screen.

You know that what we see on the screen doesn't reveal all of the underlying mechanics, right? Shouldn't be a huge surprise, people are forever complaining about changes that we don't actually see on the screen. 

8 minutes ago, markus230 said:

Then why are you assuming that "ship what we show" applies only to content being shown,

Because that's what that means. Literally. Which part of that confused you? 

10 minutes ago, markus230 said:

That's a straight up strawman, all I've said that what Steve said can be interpreted in different ways, not that I think an update will be shipped at Tennocon. I don't think that in fact. But I can see why people would think that. Just look into the comments section of the video, pretty much all of the comments are happy about update being shipped at August 1st. Something clearly went wrong with the communication, and you refuse to accept that Steve chose his words poorly.

Okay so you're arguing with me about something that neither of us thinks is going to happen, because both of us have interpreted what he said in the same way, which suggests that what he said is something that should be fairly simple to interpret? Riiiight. 

13 minutes ago, markus230 said:

A lack of information means, that you can't conclude which version is true, but due to lack of information all you can do is either fill the gaps yourself and speculate, or assume nothing.

And the only correct course of action is to recognize that what you said doesn't give me the information that would be needed to speculate, or fill in the gaps. Guess which option that leaves? 

15 minutes ago, markus230 said:

Thing is, people like to speculate, and if their vision proves to be wrong, they get disappointed and angry, that's why you give people precise information, instead of something vague. It's just bad PR.

LOL, no. Because in the real world, things are always subject to change. We can have planned a perfect vacation to Croatia, and all of a sudden, a global pandemic closes all borders, or the hotel might get closed for health violations, or there may be civil insurrection, or we might eat some bad Paški sir and end up in the hospital. Nobody knows what the future will bring. 

You just need to look at the gaming headlines and see what happens when a promised release date is missed. That's bad pr. That's exactly why "Soon" is a thing and why they avoid giving specific dates. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

14 minutes ago, markus230 said:

I don't think you know what "strawman" means. "Strawmanning" is a situation where you put words in another persons mouth, and argue against those words. At no point have I done such a thing.

🤔

1 hour ago, markus230 said:

I didn't add anything. "Ship what we show" means, that what will be shown, will get shipped. That's the most literal way of interpreting Steve's words. And if what we see in the Tennocon build is supposed to be what gets shipped, that would mean the Tennocon build is ready to be shipped. If Tennocon build has a bug, and DE fixes it before shipping, then something was shown at the Tennocon that wasn't in the release build, and that would make Steve a liar.

Looks like you have a doppelganger who is using your account, then. 

 

Now did you want to try pulling the other one? It's got bells on. 

[Loza03]

20 minutes ago, markus230 said:

I don't think you know what "strawman" means. "Strawmanning" is a situation where you put words in another persons mouth, and argue against those words. At no point have I done such a thing.

A straw man is any argument which is predicated on a corrupted version of another's argument. 

In effect, your argument was predicated on "If we're going to argue that Steve meant exactly what he said, then that means they're shipping it with bugs". Which, quite frankly, is absurd.

[SneakyErvin]

14 minutes ago, markus230 said:

Oh boy, that's hilarious. That's NOT what strawman means. Seriously, before you start using a term, read up on what it even means.

Just because Strawman, and "Grasping at Straws" have a word "Straw" in them, doesn't make them related at all.

 

Also, just so you know, my comment about bugs being kept because they were shown was meant as an argument as to why you can't take everything said 100% literally, because that's not how humans talk. We can safely assume that DE won't keep the bugs, despite them not saying that. It was a counter point to other people saying that Steve didn't say "when", so it can't be that he meant Update will be released at Tennocon, but due to how Steve formulated the sentence, it can be inferred that they will launch the update at the Tennocon, even if that isn't what he meant. The only thing I am saying is that Steve chose his words poorly, and it's his fault for leaving the playerbase with a vague statement that could mean a few different things

You should have seen my edit before answering unless this took you 6 whole minutes to type.

Your argument is a strawman in all actuality since it exaggerates and distorts what was actually said by Steve. It doesnt get more stawman than that. And no, the way Steve forumlated the sentence it cant be taken in many ways since he never actually touched the subject of time. He just refered to WYSIWYG without a specification of when.

[markus230]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You know that what we see on the screen doesn't reveal all of the underlying mechanics, right? Shouldn't be a huge surprise, people are forever complaining about changes that we don't actually see on the screen.

YES! Exactly. That's why dissecting what the sentence says LITERALLY, is pointless. Because that's not how speech works. We "know" that isn't what Steve meant, even though LITERALLY, that's what he has said. Assumption that Steve didn't mean shipping CTD if it shows up during the stream, is a very, very, very safe assumption, but it's still an assumption. Human speech involves a lot of assumptions, that's why it's not surprising that people are also assuming that Steve meant we are getting an update at Tennocon, or very close to it. It's one way of interpreting his words.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Okay so you're arguing with me about something that neither of us thinks is going to happen, because both of us have interpreted what he said in the same way, which suggests that what he said is something that should be fairly simple to interpret? Riiiight. 

Just because you and I have the assumption that Steve didn't mean a release at Tennocon, first of all, doesn't make us right, and also as we can see under the video, tons of people assumed something else, we don't know if they are wrong, because Steve's statement was vague. We two got one interpretation, hundreds of people in YT comment section got another one. So perhaps it's not so simple.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And the only correct course of action is to recognize that what you said doesn't give me the information that would be needed to speculate, or fill in the gaps. Guess which option that leaves?

You, yourself are also holding assumptions, the same one that I do. In this situation, assuming nothing, would be staying with "We don't know what Steve meant". Saying that update isn't dropping at Tennocon, or that "Ship what we show" only applies to content and not the release date, is already an assumption.  It's hard to not have any assumptions, even if you don't express your assumption or push it on others as a fact, you likely have one, because we are humans and all of us have our own version of "what I think he meant" about everything we've heard in our lives.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

LOL, no. Because in the real world, things are always subject to change. We can have planned a perfect vacation to Croatia, and all of a sudden, a global pandemic closes all borders, or the hotel might get closed for health violations, or there may be civil insurrection, or we might eat some bad Paški sir and end up in the hospital. Nobody knows what the future will bring.

Being unable to predict the future doesn't make you a liar. Also, discussing what's going to happen is one discussion (requiring a set of assumptions for each side btw), is a different discussion than what Steve meant (and that discussion requires assumptions as well)

[markus230]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Looks like you have a doppelganger who is using your account, then.

And me saying that wasn't meant to be an actual argument, I was just presenting why taking something literally isn't always the right thing to do. Thought it would be obvious that what I'm saying is "you can't take stuff literally because often there is an implication that speaker didn't need to say out loud".

But fair enough, technically it was a strawman, I can admit that