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Nekros Need rework on his 1 abilities


ChaoticEdge

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8 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

So you admit you're making S#&$ up and arguing from ignorance of how both nekros and the game work?

Because his 1 is ok and objectively doesnt need a rework, you merely asserted that out of the fact that you didnt know till recently how it works. At most it could get is % true damage (and a small amount like 5% at that) that has 100% gore chance and auto target wekspot/actual hp on enemies that have invul chest segment/actually have a effect on enemies like ruk n hek. Nice projecting tho on being a buffalo.

That is your words in bold never I said it is mine for you keep on assuming that way.

Note it does need a rework on his 1, all his 2-4 works perfectly fine but his 1 is absolutely trash and it is annoying knowing that no one is going use the 1 button on him for no one even doing any of that because he isn't a can that will do the can that can do.  Neither it is useful using against enemies for high lvl enemies just still laugh at him while they send millions of rockets and the sentient laugh even more harder of his 1 and they can't ragdoll at all and neither be flung for they instance build resistance against his 1 which I find it weird that adaption on these sentient actually figure out it's element when it isn't a element of any the table that where logically confused the players and the dev never explain.

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Just now, ChaoticEdge said:

That is your words in bold never I said it is mine for you keep on assuming that way.

You did. You literally proven you didnt know how the mechanics of not just soul punch and nekros in general by calling him a glass cannon (when he has more ehp than inaros yet no in kit scaling damage), but enemy spawns, out of bound rules and paused enemies in maps work all the while conflating a enemy ragdoll which every frame can do with melee to vaubans bounce which was a uncontrolled ally bounce effect.

Just now, ChaoticEdge said:

Note it does need a rework on his 1, all his 2-4 works perfectly fine but his 1 is absolutely trash and it is annoying knowing that no one is going use the 1 button on him for no one even doing any of that because he isn't a can that will do the can that can do.  Neither it is useful using against enemies for high lvl enemies just still laugh at him while they send millions of rockets and the sentient laugh even more harder of his 1 and they can't ragdoll at all and neither be flung for they instance build resistance against his 1 which I find it weird that adaption on these sentient actually figure out it's element when it isn't a element of any the table that where logically confused the players and the dev never explain.

Nope, again you making a statement out of ignorance doesnt actually make a point. Also how the hell do batta/concu/symb/aero sentients (and the moa post half hp dig) relate here at all as they are enemies that in general ignore a lot of game mechanics, same as bosses (and demos), while amalgams and brachios are regularly effected by skills

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16 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

You did. You literally proven you didnt know how the mechanics of not just soul punch and nekros in general by calling him a glass cannon (when he has more ehp than inaros yet no in kit scaling damage), but enemy spawns, out of bound rules and paused enemies in maps work all the while conflating a enemy ragdoll which every frame can do with melee to vaubans bounce which was a uncontrolled ally bounce effect.

Nope, again you making a statement out of ignorance doesnt actually make a point. Also how the hell do batta/concu/symb/aero sentients (and the moa post half hp dig) relate here at all as they are enemies that in general ignore a lot of game mechanics, same as bosses (and demos), while amalgams and brachios are regularly effected by skills

you know that his punch never scale dmg like vauban even from all this time it never actually scaled to the enemies lvl that why no one use him and making him glass cannon for you said "focusing on strength build" you are making him glass cannon relying on shadow of dead mods and desecrate when the enemy pop up bug issues leech for AI still have bug path way configuration.  As again we are talking about his 1 ability for his mechanic is rubbish no matter what how we view it.

As again your ignoring and random statement there as you denied it again when you know Nekros need a rework on his 1 button for it never actually HELP PPL FOR WHO DA HECK USE THE MOD TO SAVE THEIR TEAMMATE IN STEEL PATH FOR THERE WERE ZERO, keep in mind the only players who actually use nekros he only focus 2 mods but never focus ever dare using his soul punch for his description he never used SOUL PUNCH AT ALL and it was recently about it like 1 or 2 weeks ago.  The abilities is absolute RUBBISH for his 1 is need rework for I seen the mechanic everytime and no one give dang about it for it actually never worked.  It never scaled the actual dmg of the lvl and no one even see a Nekros's 1 ability take down exmius orokin bombarder or neither stop a sentient from firing.  Even you had the best arcane these arcane actually never supported the back of Nekros's ability for his 1 for yes I temp before full on max strength build that is actual glass cannon builder for what I get, a laughing orokin grineer exmius who health just itch his noise for it only took small amount of health still and yet you think this punches is enough then think again.  This punch is meme for it only meant to push never dealing true benefit dmg for it can't even scaled to enemies lvl for I try it so many time even each time there is an update I tested it every-time to see did they change it but they never DID.  For that your augment is actually meaningless when you barely know nekros yourself as well how hard for him to use his 1 ability.

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Just now, ChaoticEdge said:

you know that his punch never scale dmg like vauban even from all this time it never actually scaled to the enemies lvl that why no one use him and making him glass cannon for you said "focusing on strength build" you are making him glass cannon relying on shadow of dead mods and desecrate when the enemy pop up bug issues leech for AI still have bug path way configuration.  As again we are talking about his 1 ability for his mechanic is rubbish no matter what how we view it.]

What the hell are you rambling on about? Strength literally scales his tankiness up. How the hell is over 100k ehp glass canon?
And no dunce, vaubans damage scaling doesnt come from strength, its from innate level scaling (also a viable option tho unhealthy as flachette proved).

Just now, ChaoticEdge said:

As again your ignoring and random statement there as you denied it again when you know Nekros need a rework on his 1 button for it never actually HELP PPL FOR WHO DA HECK USE THE MOD TO SAVE THEIR TEAMMATE IN STEEL PATH FOR THERE WERE ZERO, keep in mind the only players who actually use nekros he only focus 2 mods but never focus ever dare using his soul punch for his description he never used SOUL PUNCH AT ALL and it was recently about it like 1 or 2 weeks ago.  The abilities is absolute RUBBISH for his 1 is need rework for I seen the mechanic everytime and no one give dang about it for it actually never worked.  It never scaled the actual dmg of the lvl and no one even see a Nekros's 1 ability take down exmius orokin bombarder or neither stop a sentient from firing.  Even you had the best arcane these arcane actually never supported the back of Nekros's ability for his 1 for yes I temp before full on max strength build that is actual glass cannon builder for what I get, a laughing orokin grineer exmius who health just itch his noise for it only took small amount of health still and yet you think this punches is enough then think again.  This punch is meme for it only meant to push never dealing true benefit dmg for it can't even scaled to enemies lvl for I try it so many time even each time there is an update I tested it every-time to see did they change it but they never DID.

Augment being old isnt a argument about the viability of his 1. Its a solid single target cc thats fast energy dump for resource or shield convo thats a 1h upper body animation thus never interrupts you. All you're doing is proving ignorance of how nekros works and the game in general functions by doubling down on the insane idea that he is somehow a glass cannon when he is more tanky than "HP bar prime" while having less damage (literally, inaros 4 casts alone beat punch+shadows unless you stack up on high prio ai, tho in either case both frames would just melee or shoot).

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16 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

What the hell are you rambling on about? Strength literally scales his tankiness up. How the hell is over 100k ehp glass canon?
And no dunce, vaubans damage scaling doesnt come from strength, its from innate level scaling (also a viable option tho unhealthy as flachette proved).

Augment being old isnt a argument about the viability of his 1. Its a solid single target cc thats fast energy dump for resource or shield convo thats a 1h upper body animation thus never interrupts you. All you're doing is proving ignorance of how nekros works and the game in general functions by doubling down on the insane idea that he is somehow a glass cannon when he is more tanky than "HP bar prime" while having less damage (literally, inaros 4 casts alone beat punch+shadows unless you stack up on high prio ai, tho in either case both frames would just melee or shoot).

*slow facepalm* you had no clue what we even talking about his 1 ability?  For the ... As again I was discussing about his 1 is actually waste as I pointed out so many time and you blab off "HIS OTHER ABILITIES SO MANY TIME!"  For I am talking about his soul punch is absoutely useless for it is wasteful and how greatly it wasted using his 1 ability, I never said his 2 or 3 or neither his 4 for I just said it is fine for mod augmentation is ok but you keep on bringing up  again "he is tankiness" for yes I know his tanky but I am focusing on 1 damn thing you side topic again with your old argument. for NO ONE WANT TALK ABOUT IT.  We are here talk about his 1 for it never provided any benifit except for his side augmentation but we are talking about how it should of CHANGE instead of being ragdoll never does $##! while bombarder exlius laugh their head off still making fun of how useless his dumping energy punches are just jokes in the bags.  HIs strength full on build about it using his 1 on enemy absoutely useless for they still get up and they aren't even scaled like vauban's turret grenade is that is you assumed that is but it is not.

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10 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

*slow facepalm* you had no clue what we even talking about his 1 ability?  For the ... As again I was discussing about his 1 is actually waste as I pointed out so many time and you blab off "HIS OTHER ABILITIES SO MANY TIME!"  For I am talking about his soul punch is absoutely useless for it is wasteful and how greatly it wasted using his 1 ability, I never

No, its you who keeps arguing power strength somehow turns nekros into a glass cannon and are bringing up disconnected not relevant things like vauban bounce.
Nekros 1 is solid. Make a actual point with proof instead of assertion out of ignorance if you want to argue it.

10 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

said his 2 or 3 or neither his 4 for I just said it is fine for mod augmentation is ok but you keep on bringing up  again "he is tankiness" for yes I know his tanky but I am focusing on 1 damn thing you side topic again with your old argument. for NO ONE WANT TALK ABOUT IT.  We are here talk about his 1 for it never provided any benifit except for his side augmentation but we are talking about how it should of CHANGE instead of being ragdoll never does $##! while bombarder exlius laugh their head off still making fun of how useless his dumping energy punches are just jokes in the bags.  HIs strength full on build about it using his 1 on enemy absoutely useless for they still get up and they aren't even scaled like vauban's turret grenade is that is you assumed that is but it is not.

Except thats wrong, its a 1h cc whose type depends on how you use while being a 1h upper body animation. You not knowing how to use it isnt the fault of Soul Punch.

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2 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

No, its you who keeps arguing power strength somehow turns nekros into a glass cannon and are bringing up disconnected not relevant things like vauban bounce.
Nekros 1 is solid. Make a actual point with proof instead of assertion out of ignorance if you want to argue it.

Except thats wrong, its a 1h cc whose type depends on how you use while being a 1h upper body animation. You not knowing how to use it isnt the fault of Soul Punch.

There is goes again, you assume it. but you had no clue what topic your on because you had said in the past in this thread.  You keep on saying "Nekros's 1 ability is fine but it isn't so many time.  I do know just a punch for claim or touch and the fastest animation ever be casted.  You know what your not right because the hole page you gotten no where knowing either, you had no clue that barely that no one even uses his punch and they pretend not knowledge it and try to "defend" the soul punch for being rework.  Stop your aurgment that "Nekros's 1 is fine because majorities the players knows it is not fine like how old meme were needed replacement.  So many time ppl like you temp to stop a good rework but somehow it does until everyone beat the crap out of it like VAUBAN was how they talk toxic everytime and now it is time not be held back by ppl because you didn't want the change.

As again Nekros's 1 had never even proven it's worth for I prefer rhino ramming power over the Nekros's 1 ability.  For I got more provided force and it is better stunning power then nekros for who go for single target that doesn't proven it is value.  The mechanic is never been perfect form the start and you keep on assuming it is fine even the keep on "DRAGGING BACK 1H UPPER BODY ANIMATION" worries too much that as well. The fact that your not seeing the pictures at all how much you think you know the mechanic but you don't see the other picture how it branch off.  It is like always the detectives work how criminal works where they branch off, where they go what they can that can do may can be or may they do.  Yet so many time you stop me for I am not try to temp to bring my opinion to be put into action to have Nekros's ability to change.  I can troll hell lot like Limbo but it doesn't mean we the players can abuse our power a lot.  I am not letting you keep on denied what needs to be change with Nekros's 1 rather your the crowd who hate changes or not, for I only see clueless crowds don't know what is going on rioting for the wrong thing for I see that your the type of being the zealot who refuse see the outside the box.

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5 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

...and the sentient laugh even more harder of his 1 and they can't ragdoll at all and neither be flung for they instance build resistance against his 1 which I find it weird that adaption on these sentient actually figure out it's element when it isn't a element of any the table that where logically confused the players and the dev never explain.

Soul Punch deals Impact damage on the main hit and potential AoE (if the invisible projectile hits a solid surface). While it once required player testing to figure this out, DE put [some of] this information in the Ability UI:

Spoiler

p.png?fv_content=true&size_mode=5

 

Anyway, I have few questions for the argumentative pair:

  • Which is the larger issue: Soul Punch doesn't scale or Soul Punch ragdolls enemies?
  • If Soul Punch did scale (and scaled fairly well), would the combination of it and the hard CC be more or less appealing?
  • If the invisible projectile didn't compound collision physics on ragdolled enemies, would the hard CC be more or less appealing? (aka, if they didn't "bounce" as radically as they currently do)
  • Would an alternate form of hard CC be preferable to the ragdoll?
  • Which is preferable: Adjustment to the damage scaling and CC mechanics of Soul Punch, or a complete rework of the skill?
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4 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

There is goes again, you assume it. but you had no clue what topic your on because you had said in the past in this thread.  You keep on saying "Nekros's 1 ability is fine but it isn't so many time.  I do know just a punch for claim or touch and the fastest animation ever be casted.  You know what your not right because the hole page you gotten no where knowing either, you had no clue that barely that no one even uses his punch and they pretend not knowledge it and try to "defend" the soul punch for being rework.  Stop your aurgment that "Nekros's 1 is fine because majorities the players knows it is not fine like how old meme were needed replacement.  So many time ppl like you temp to stop a good rework but somehow it does until everyone beat the crap out of it like VAUBAN was how they talk toxic everytime and now it is time not be held back by ppl because you didn't want the change.

You stating something and then ignoring it doesnt change what you stated and yes, i keep repeating Soul Punch is fine because you keep ignoring reality of it and i have to explain it each time. Your or even the majority of peoples ignorance of how to control its cc mechanic and place in kit doesnt change that. And again you keep comparing a enemy ragdoll to a ally bounce effect.

4 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

As again Nekros's 1 had never even proven it's worth for I prefer rhino ramming power over the Nekros's 1 ability.  For I got more provided force and it is better stunning power then nekros for who go for single target that doesn't proven it is value.  The mechanic is never been perfect form the start and you keep on assuming it is fine even the keep on "DRAGGING BACK 1H UPPER BODY ANIMATION" worries too much that as well. The fact that your not seeing the pictures at all how much you think you know the mechanic but you don't see the other picture how it branch off.  It is like always the detectives work how criminal works where they branch off, where they go what they can that can do may can be or may they do.  Yet so many time you stop me for I am not try to temp to bring my opinion to be put into action to have Nekros's ability to change.  I can troll hell lot like Limbo but it doesn't mean we the players can abuse our power a lot.  I am not letting you keep on denied what needs to be change with Nekros's 1 rather your the crowd who hate changes or not, for I only see clueless crowds don't know what is going on rioting for the wrong thing for I see that your the type of being the zealot who refuse see the outside the box.

Your ignorance is not a argument, if you want to "detective" it counter the actual point instead of screeching "the child is a vampire" while throwing plastic coins that look like silver.

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On 2020-07-28 at 4:46 AM, MasterBurik said:

Soul Punch deals Impact damage on the main hit and potential AoE (if the invisible projectile hits a solid surface). While it once required player testing to figure this out, DE put [some of] this information in the Ability UI:

  Reveal hidden contents

p.png?fv_content=true&size_mode=5

 

Anyway, I have few questions for the argumentative pair:

  • Which is the larger issue: Soul Punch doesn't scale or Soul Punch ragdolls enemies?
  • If Soul Punch did scale (and scaled fairly well), would the combination of it and the hard CC be more or less appealing?
  • If the invisible projectile didn't compound collision physics on ragdolled enemies, would the hard CC be more or less appealing? (aka, if they didn't "bounce" as radically as they currently do)
  • Would an alternate form of hard CC be preferable to the ragdoll?
  • Which is preferable: Adjustment to the damage scaling and CC mechanics of Soul Punch, or a complete rework of the skill?

some odd reason the picture you had doesn't load up unless it pose to lead to files document  yes I look into that

  • it actually doesn't scale at all for it only ragdolls enemies.  For example vauban's turret ball actually scales to enemeis no matter what their lvl is
  • if soul punch is scaled it would be apparently be useful to actually use it an emergency serious to take and actually will not ragdoll bosses but to ensure that you have enough power to actually do some dmg
  • either way ppl will not still noticed any of these circumstance because no one actually care Nekros's 1 ability and never dare use it any reasons
  • yes it would because ragdoll is basically a "long stun effect" and if you have a frame focus saving lots energy and have massive amount range, you can spam this abilities using desecrate if your allies kills alot or either built your frame to store lots energy, you basically you can "Juggle" enemies like a clown which I can proven it can be trolly for you can do the opposite of mag's pull but without a boundary for it depends how good your aim and they could vanish in the map if you do it right.
  • This one depends on the dev because the mechanics behind soul punch was never used for CC in the 1st place for the dev want make player think it is emergency cc but the actual real CC is your terrify ability of nekros which it actually is true CC and Soul Punch was actually never design to be full on CC but no one want actually use it even they are dieing in the fight they end up using nekros's shadow of dead augment mod and put full on make sure these dead guys stay alive.  This lead to the point that Nekros's ability was never attend to be use any reason for majorities the players see it as the soul punch as absolute mediocre that has actually meaningless to use it in combat.  As again the fact that no one actually use this ability to either save another players or either actually see a reason to put a good uses.  This bring up one my private see vote and actually put it in the game live region in chat in the game for I ask nekros players or ppl who use nekros before and ask them about had they use it for it did conclude that no one ever want touch it for they only did it few but never actually uses it so forth mission once they got nekros as they tested.  Unlike Rhino's 1 ability for it is being used still a lot which not rare uses for it is uncommon uses by players but not delay your question.  It is looking forward into more of rework of the skill for it is not even put into thought for when DE announce Nekros for everyone hated him and see him none papa looter guy for he been put under the foot of men, it is more likely his 1 ability is massive mess by the dev because well steve with his well...beverages chose of drinks for he been on it and gotten heavy with it while working for no one noticed that he is in lvl of tipsy and more likely we know mistakes happen and this what happen.  Nekros's 1 ability become like this and never had any process being thought of or even give something added into it for it doesn't have to be dmg all the time but not looking forward of massive ragdolls that actually can be abused which it is simple built to abuse CC.
On 2020-07-28 at 7:06 AM, Andele3025 said:

You stating something and then ignoring it doesnt change what you stated and yes, i keep repeating Soul Punch is fine because you keep ignoring reality of it and i have to explain it each time. Your or even the majority of peoples ignorance of how to control its cc mechanic and place in kit doesnt change that. And again you keep comparing a enemy ragdoll to a ally bounce effect.

Your ignorance is not a argument, if you want to "detective" it counter the actual point instead of screeching "the child is a vampire" while throwing plastic coins that look like silver.

your not paying attention at all still, it isn't about the bonus, the actual ragdoll was never attended implant it for the idea was "Improvised too fast" for it was never thought it out.  If you realized the dev's work they been sloppy in the past before and do you think they will be sloppy now?  More likely players don't care about bonus from a frame that try give small bonus actually care for.  the CC can be overly abused. As again the soul punch was never attended to be abused for the dev quick slap it together and just try add seasoning spice but it didn't work for his 1 for it turns out be like vauban's 1 his charge up grenade to make it look like it is powerful but it isn't and it is a waste.  Nekros is starting to be one those older frame like chroma but not like chroma but as in they only had certain abilities be used by the players and players never touch those abilities again for example chroma's fire breath was actually never be used by players because it doesn't provided super long range of firebreath that they dream of or any provied bonus that actually worth using or either his Effigy ability for players hope that Chroma's dragon pal will do a cool powerful attack and provide an actual support for that been tarnish and become absolute rubbish by the communities.  Yet guess what the communities demand rework with those 2 abilities but what they got instead was a nerf on chroma 2 and 3 ability which a player showing off how good he can be with his 2 and 3 only focused on then that where the communties stop talking about chroma but not realized it until they play chroma long enough and remembering their 1 and 4 button then they went back wanted rework on chroma's 1 and 4.  As again it did the same thing with nekros which everyone still hate his 1 ability for they would like because the dev add something to try make the communities happy it doesn't mean it actually made them happy for they get more infuriated and was never ask this way when some the players specifically said this way for it was given such not so great about it.

As again your not even realized what is going on with nekros's ability again for his ability of his 1 is always been a mediocre like how vauban's old 1 ability and your just supporting a mediocre all the long.

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24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

some odd reason the picture you had doesn't load up unless it pose to lead to files document  yes I look into that

  • it actually doesn't scale at all for it only ragdolls enemies.  For example vauban's turret ball actually scales to enemeis no matter what their lvl is

Innate damage scaling based on level is damage scaling, cc innately scales at any level because its a binary. A enemy either is cc-ed or they arent. Most one could argue is that the diminishing returns of enemies like thumpers and jugger count as scaling but thats mostly just a "you have x uses of cc before you go to they aint.

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:
  • if soul punch is scaled it would be apparently be useful to actually use it an emergency serious to take and actually will not ragdoll bosses but to ensure that you have enough power to actually do some dmg

You mean its current use to yeet high priority targets while being a cheap1h action to have controlled energy dump that doesnt interrupt your actions (and recharge for shield gate)?

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:
  • either way ppl will not still noticed any of these circumstance because no one actually care Nekros's 1 ability and never dare use it any reasons

Which is as stated before by yourself entirely your bias out of ignorance of mechanics.
 

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:
  • game live region in chat in the game for I ask nekros players or ppl who use nekros before and ask them about had they use it for it did conclude that no one ever want touch it for they only did it few

Yet you argue against one who does with assertions out of ignorance.

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

your not paying attention at all still, it isn't about the bonus, the actual ragdoll was never attended implant it for the idea was "Improvised too fast" for it was never thought it out.  If you realized the dev's work they been sloppy in the past before and do you think they will be sloppy now?  More likely players don't care about bonus from a frame that try give small bonus actually care for. 

Soul punch had its yeet since day 1..

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

the CC can be overly abused and yet your calling someone else ignorance for put good reason not take you seriously for name calling is actually "Under the guidelines". 

Nice projecting.

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

As again the soul punch was never attended to be abused for the dev quick slap it together and just try add seasoning spice but it didn't work for his 1 for it turns out be like vauban's 1 his charge up grenade to make it look like it is powerful but it isn't and it is a waste.  Nekros is starting to be one those older frame like chroma but not like chroma but as in they only had certain abilities be used by the players and players never touch those abilities again for example chroma's fire breath

Except they are nothing alike because chroma locks you in, has unreliable cc potential, is extremely short range for its cost and limits, is a full upper body animation and used to even lock down your movement.

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

was actually never be used by players because it doesn't provided super long range of firebreath that they dream of or any provied bonus that actually worth using or either his Effigy ability for players hope that Chroma's dragon pal will do a cool powerful attack and provide an actual support for that been tarnish and become absolute rubbish by the communities.  Yet guess what the communities demand rework with those 2 abilities but what they got instead was a nerf on chroma 2 and 3 ability which a player showing off how good he can be with his 2 and 3 only focused on then that where the communties stop talking about chroma but not realized it until they play chroma long enough and remembering their 1 and 4 button then they went back wanted rework on chroma's 1 and 4. 

Chroma needs a rework because his kit inherently has no internal functions/is made up of independent abilities that dont focus on any specific playstyle, even if you could swap elemental options mid gameloop it would still revolve around his buffs.

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

As again it did the same thing with nekros which everyone still hate his 1 ability for they would like because the dev add something to try make the communities happy it doesn't mean it actually made them happy for they get more infuriated and was never ask this way when some the players specifically said this way for it was given such not so great about it.

Except that is your assertion from ignorance. Nekros 2, 3 and 4 are all full upper body animations, they are also localized on him (to a degree for 4), a longer range priority hit is a pefect fit. Back when released his 1 even was highly competitive damage for the stat ranges (something almost every frames 1 that deals damage and isnt stat stick based or saryn/nidus suffer from and why % or true damage would be good).

24 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

As again your not even realized what is going on with nekros's ability again for his ability of his 1 is always been a mediocre like how vauban's old 1 ability and your just supporting a mediocre all the long.

Assertion from ignorance doesnt make a point. Soul Punch and what was once Bounce part of minelayer have nothing in common.

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5 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Innate damage scaling based on level is damage scaling, cc innately scales at any level because its a binary. A enemy either is cc-ed or they arent. Most one could argue is that the diminishing returns of enemies like thumpers and jugger count as scaling but thats mostly just a "you have x uses of cc before you go to they aint.

You mean its current use to yeet high priority targets while being a cheap1h action to have controlled energy dump that doesnt interrupt your actions (and recharge for shield gate)?

Which is as stated before by yourself entirely your bias out of ignorance of mechanics.
 

Yet you argue against one who does with assertions out of ignorance.

Soul punch had its yeet since day 1..

Nice projecting.

Except they are nothing alike because chroma locks you in, has unreliable cc potential, is extremely short range for its cost and limits, is a full upper body animation and used to even lock down your movement.

Chroma needs a rework because his kit inherently has no internal functions/is made up of independent abilities that dont focus on any specific playstyle, even if you could swap elemental options mid gameloop it would still revolve around his buffs.

Except that is your assertion from ignorance. Nekros 2, 3 and 4 are all full upper body animations, they are also localized on him (to a degree for 4), a longer range priority hit is a pefect fit. Back when released his 1 even was highly competitive damage for the stat ranges (something almost every frames 1 that deals damage and isnt stat stick based or saryn/nidus suffer from and why % or true damage would be good).

Assertion from ignorance doesnt make a point. Soul Punch and what was once Bounce part of minelayer have nothing in common.

as again your view bringing back meaningless and no one ask your opinion on my talk to the other person.  Bounce is mediocre, why do you think vauban needed a rework for what I learn about rahetalius for viewing vauban open my eyes and more likely I start see the pattern which abilities is being used a lot for I can tell for it run the same thing for some the frames which excal 1 ability more handy then old vauban's shock grenades and bounce because excal new 1 ability target enemies and have counter meter to actually jump to another enemy as for Nekros 1 ability only been like old vauban's 1 ability the shock grenades and his old bounce for it is simliar just narrow down in path like you keep on calling someone else ignorance when you need to do your reflecting your action.  If you can't see for anything I'll open it little further explaining bit more, nekros's 1 ability is absolute mediocre just like how you mix bounce and shock grenade but remove his shock to ragdoll as slap for fun bonus that actually doesn't really help or benefit from it.  Do expect I demand rework animation for I didn't even ask for rework animation for only rework ability if you keep on dragging back "body animation" there is faster casting to skip the animation if your complaining about it.  His 1 ability need a rework when there is too much ragdoll then afterward learning never much but actually is $##! and giggles basically it is a frown.  More likely you need to leave if you cannot agree then better do your own forum and your own thread for the ppl who do agree for rework can stay for I will not tolerate with ppl who desire keep his old 1 and never view the picture

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I think that making his 1 select which enemies get turned into shadows would be awesome.

So this is my idea for his 1:

Ability marks a target (lasts forever) and that enemy receives an extra 150% damage from all sources. (Damage un-moddable)

When the target is killed it gets added to Nekros's shadows of the dead (7 max). 

Holding the ability will clear all shadows, if shadows are already out they will remain until they die out. (or Nekros decides to remove from play using my idea for his 4)

If you have your max of 7 shadows the ability gains a small AOE (2-5 metres moddable) but affected targets only get an extra 75% damage from all sources. (Damage un-moddable)

Energy cost increase to 50 energy per cast when you have max amount of shadows.

 

This would make it easier to pick out targets that you want want to make shadows. You can pick all targets that summon units. On top of that you can keep the targets you selected forever if you wanted. The only change you would have to make is that Nekros can deactivate his 4 or just make it some kind of channelling ability.

 

My idea for his 4:

Change into a channelled ability.

Shadows keep their boosted stats (damage, health etc).

Shadows heal 1% of their total health per sec. 

If the shadows die you have to re-cast the ability to bring them back.

If you have no shadows collected from his 1 (if my idea for it was implemented along side this) you summon random weak enemies like butchers, chargers etc.

Shadows that have their own summons now won't add more DR (TBH I don't think this was ever intended to work like that and DE like usual have left it in).

 

So the whole idea would be to have his 1 remain a primarily single target ability. You can really create your own hand picked squad rather than killing a bunch of targets and having no idea who you are gonna summon. Once you have a squad you like his 1 would become useless again. That why I thought it would be good idea to have it change slightly when you max out your shadow count so that it can still have some use. 

 

 

      

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17 minutes ago, MrHBN said:

I think that making his 1 select which enemies get turned into shadows would be awesome.

So this is my idea for his 1:

Ability marks a target (lasts forever) and that enemy receives an extra 150% damage from all sources. (Damage un-moddable)

When the target is killed it gets added to Nekros's shadows of the dead (7 max). 

Holding the ability will clear all shadows, if shadows are already out they will remain until they die out. (or Nekros decides to remove from play using my idea for his 4)

If you have your max of 7 shadows the ability gains a small AOE (2-5 metres moddable) but affected targets only get an extra 75% damage from all sources. (Damage un-moddable)

Energy cost increase to 50 energy per cast when you have max amount of shadows.

 

This would make it easier to pick out targets that you want want to make shadows. You can pick all targets that summon units. On top of that you can keep the targets you selected forever if you wanted. The only change you would have to make is that Nekros can deactivate his 4 or just make it some kind of channelling ability.

 

My idea for his 4:

Change into a channelled ability.

Shadows keep their boosted stats (damage, health etc).

Shadows heal 1% of their total health per sec. 

If the shadows die you have to re-cast the ability to bring them back.

If you have no shadows collected from his 1 (if my idea for it was implemented along side this) you summon random weak enemies like butchers, chargers etc.

Shadows that have their own summons now won't add more DR (TBH I don't think this was ever intended to work like that and DE like usual have left it in).

 

So the whole idea would be to have his 1 remain a primarily single target ability. You can really create your own hand picked squad rather than killing a bunch of targets and having no idea who you are gonna summon. Once you have a squad you like his 1 would become useless again. That why I thought it would be good idea to have it change slightly when you max out your shadow count so that it can still have some use. 

 

 

      

there is no reason shaming in summoner for I do like how it is pose to be originally pose to be some odd reason in the 1st place but I don't know why the dev avoided such way it pose to be anyway.

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6 hours ago, ChaoticEdge said:

as again your view bringing back meaningless and no one ask your opinion on my talk to the other person.  Bounce is mediocre, why do you think vauban needed a rework for what I learn about rahetalius for viewing vauban open my eyes and more likely I start see the pattern which abilities is being used a lot for I can tell for it run the same thing for some the frames which excal 1 ability more handy then old vauban's shock grenades and bounce because excal new 1 ability target enemies and have counter meter to actually jump to another enemy as for Nekros 1 ability only been like old vauban's 1 ability the shock grenades and his old bounce for it is simliar just narrow down in path like you keep on calling someone else ignorance when you need to do your reflecting your action.  If you can't see for anything I'll open it little further explaining bit more, nekros's 1 ability is absolute mediocre just like how you mix bounce and shock grenade but remove his shock to ragdoll as slap for fun bonus that actually doesn't really help or benefit from it.  Do expect I demand rework animation for I didn't even ask for rework animation for only rework ability if you keep on dragging back "body animation" there is faster casting to skip the animation if your complaining about it.  His 1 ability need a rework when there is too much ragdoll then afterward learning never much but actually is $##! and giggles basically it is a frown.  More likely you need to leave if you cannot agree then better do your own forum and your own thread for the ppl who do agree for rework can stay for I will not tolerate with ppl who desire keep his old 1 and never view the picture

You making assertions from ignorance which you yourself demonstrated and then somehow being able to mental gymanstics that ragdolling a enemy can be compared to bounce is only a reflection of you. As such no, i am not going to leave for you to suggest nerfing nekros.

And SP doesnt need a rework, at best a buff to make its damage scale and usable against enemies where the center bone/body cant be effected.

 

4 hours ago, MrHBN said:

I think that making his 1 select which enemies get turned into shadows would be awesome.

Bandaids arent good. His 4 should simply have a mandachord style ui where each player could select the enemy unit (type) priorites for shadow spawn pool that expunges lower priority units if a better is killed.

P.S. The shadow DR for Shield of Shadows was more based on the fact that long long ago nekros used to be able to summon more units (scaling with strength, with most builds of the time that did focus on it running in the 14-16 shadow count), but it effected performance too much and till reduction to 7 (tho probably a fair few patches later till pre poe) influenced the amount of units even spawnable due to it, yet the augment never got updated to the limitation of 7 (thus it and nova 1 being the 2 highest stat cost DR skills vs the regular "30-50% extra power strength needed to get max damage reduction" other skills follow).

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2 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

 

Bandaids arent good. His 4 should simply have a mandachord style ui where each player could select the enemy unit (type) priorites for shadow spawn pool that expunges lower priority units if a better is killed.

P.S. The shadow DR for Shield of Shadows was more based on the fact that long long ago nekros used to be able to summon more units (scaling with strength, with most builds of the time that did focus on it running in the 14-16 shadow count), but it effected performance too much and till reduction to 7 (tho probably a fair few patches later till pre poe) influenced the amount of units even spawnable due to it, yet the augment never got updated to the limitation of 7 (thus it and nova 1 being the 2 highest stat cost DR skills vs the regular "30-50% extra power strength needed to get max damage reduction" other skills follow).

6 hours ago, MrHBN said:

 

So this is my idea for his 1:

Ability marks a target (lasts forever) and that enemy receives an extra 150% damage from all sources. (Damage un-moddable)

When the target is killed it gets added to Nekros's shadows of the dead (7 max). 

Holding the ability will clear all shadows, if shadows are already out they will remain until they die out. (or Nekros decides to remove from play using my idea for his 4)

If you have your max of 7 shadows the ability gains a small AOE (2-5 metres moddable) but affected targets only get an extra 75% damage from all sources. (Damage un-moddable)

Energy cost increase to 50 energy per cast when you have max amount of shadows.

 

But his 1 with my idea could act as a damage boost as well. I don't think it would be a bandaid fix but even so being able to pick out units is something that Nekros could bennefit from greatly which is is why I thought his 1 could do that while also boosting damage abit so that it's not just picking out targets. I wanted to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Any warframe that has a mandachord UI style of thing I find annoying. Therefore I didn't think of that as a good idea also. 

I know how his 4 used to work but I still think that DE meant to make it so shadows summons wouldn't give more DR originally but forgot over time as Nekros was pretty great back then being able to lessen grind, have a great CC and on top of that be able to tank. I think they wanted to fix the problems but also nerf him a little at that time. Now it does seem stupid with the direction the game has gone since then. 

His 4 just needs a better way to select units & maybe a buff to the augment. I thought his 1 could be changed to help with his 4 and also actually do something useful. (His 1 augment can probably still work with my idea too).

With the idea you presented for selecting units, it's still pretty random. I think being able to hand pick your own squad would be better as you can change priority on which units you need in-mission. Looking at the UI and selecting stuff out of mission isn't as fun or engaging as picking out a squad that you want in-mission. His 1 is pretty much pointless at the moment so why not change it to make Nekros more engaging to play? Even better if my idea for a damage buff was used. Even if it wasn't it would still improve Nekros and make him more fun. Fun!

Look through a menu? Not fun. Moving through battle picking out only the finest of units? That to me sounds fun!  

 

 

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22 minutes ago, MrHBN said:

But his 1 with my idea could act as a damage boost as well. I don't think it would be a bandaid fix but even so being able to pick out units is something that Nekros could bennefit from greatly which is is why I thought his 1 could do that while also boosting damage abit so that it's not just picking out targets. I wanted to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Any warframe that has a mandachord UI style of thing I find annoying. Therefore I didn't think of that as a good idea also. 

I know how his 4 used to work but I still think that DE meant to make it so shadows summons wouldn't give more DR originally but forgot over time as Nekros was pretty great back then being able to lessen grind, have a great CC and on top of that be able to tank. I think they wanted to fix the problems but also nerf him a little at that time. Now it does seem stupid with the direction the game has gone since then. 

His 4 just needs a better way to select units & maybe a buff to the augment. I thought his 1 could be changed to help with his 4 and also actually do something useful. (His 1 augment can probably still work with my idea too).

With the idea you presented for selecting units, it's still pretty random. I think being able to hand pick your own squad would be better as you can change priority on which units you need in-mission. Looking at the UI and selecting stuff out of mission isn't as fun or engaging as picking out a squad that you want in-mission. His 1 is pretty much pointless at the moment so why not change it to make Nekros more engaging to play? Even better if my idea for a damage buff was used. Even if it wasn't it would still improve Nekros and make him more fun. Fun!

Look through a menu? Not fun. Moving through battle picking out only the finest of units? That to me sounds fun!  

 

 

Nekros been bandaid too many time which few his ability did work well but his 1 ability never got well in the 1st place even after the bandaid on his 1.  More likely Nekros will fall into direction of rework on his 1 ability just like chroma and other frame needed heavy update rework.

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1 hour ago, MrHBN said:

Look through a menu? Not fun. Moving through battle picking out only the finest of units? That to me sounds fun! 
 

Think about game pace and core game loop. If shadows will ever have a place other than aggro meat shields (which tbf if DE buff SoS and give another 4 augment that changes how it works much like how valkyr got for hysteria doesnt even really need to change, its just a bit less customization for builds), reducing incentives to kill the enemy/actively making you stop to not go for the optimal damage route, while also making the summons a energy drain nyx 1 also preventing extra energy regen reducing the resource looping options of how you build his kit (people already rage that despoil is a mandatory mod because of less resource juggling you can do and thus less ability casts or less risks taking you can engage in without depending on specific operator arcanes on a efficiency nekros setup to the point that it feels mandatory) is far more disruptive and not "fun" compared to just having a priority set like right now only one that you can tweak to your liking of enemy capabilities.
Imagine if octavia had to use her 1 to make a song from enemy damage or if nidus wouldnt get benefits of his link based on % of his stacks compared to enemy hp.

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54 minutes ago, Andele3025 said:

Soul Punch at most needs a form of better scaling damage (if possible for the sake of futureproofing balance, one that actually requires stats in built unlike spore n flechette) as to be akin to what abilities were proportionally yee back and what ability design tends to be today.

Using a cut-down version of Vauban's Flechette Orb damage equation to "beef up" Soul Punch scaling:

 

Total Damage = Base Damage x (1 + Ability Strength) x Enemy Level Multiplier

Enemy Level Multiplier = ceil(Enemy Level / 10)

 

True Damage against a level 175 Corrupted Heavy Gunner (HP: 97,792):

  • 100% Ability Strength: 8500 True Damage (~9% Health Damage)
  • 150% Ability Strength: 12,750 True Damage (~13% Health Damage)
  • 200% Ability Strength: 17,000 True Damage (~17% Health Damage)
  • 250% Ability Strength: 21,250 True Damage (~22% Health Damage)

 

Just to compare...here is a rough estimation of the same scaling equation, but with the damage reduction caused by Ferrite Armor and Impact Damage on Cloned Flesh:

 

Impact Damage against a level 175 Corrupted Heavy Gunner (HP: 97,792):

  • 100% Ability Strength: ~190 Impact Damage (~0.2% Health Damage)
  • 150% Ability Strength: ~284 Impact Damage (~0.3% Health Damage)
  • 200% Ability Strength: ~379 Impact Damage (~0.4% Health Damage)
  • 250% Ability Strength: ~474 Impact Damage (~0.5% Health Damage)
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On 2020-07-29 at 2:11 AM, MasterBurik said:

Using a cut-down version of Vauban's Flechette Orb damage equation to "beef up" Soul Punch scaling:

Just to compare...here is a rough estimation of the same scaling equation, but with the damage reduction caused by Ferrite Armor and Impact Damage on Cloned Flesh:

Oh i know, my point for flechette was that its scaling being a independent damage multiplier in calc makes the impact of power strength slightly iffy. Tho as said before wouldnt mind much if they went with the route as its a VERY functional fix for the kit gap, just that personal preference is if possible to not as (at least IMO) its a bigger design trap than % damage (which DE already solved when liches presented the effect revenant had by remembering "it can always have a upper cap as well as lower").

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On 2020-07-29 at 3:14 AM, Andele3025 said:

Oh i know, my point for flechette was that its scaling being a independent damage multiplier in calc makes the impact of power strength slightly iffy. Tho as said before wouldnt mind much if they went with the route as its a VERY functional fix for the kit gap, just that personal preference is if possible to not as (at least IMO) its a bigger design trap than % damage (which DE already solved when liches presented the effect revenant had by remembering "it can always have a upper cap as well as lower").

why do you think it needs a rework, when I said almost the same I never said it have to be exact the same for making a rework is unlimited thought possibility for it could of been nekros 1 punch turn enemies into undead if chance or whatever in matter level which I keep on saying it is going face rework rather you like it or not for we all can't assumed is correct to be or not for Nekros is needed rework on his 1.

On 2020-07-29 at 2:11 AM, MasterBurik said:

Using a cut-down version of Vauban's Flechette Orb damage equation to "beef up" Soul Punch scaling:

 

Total Damage = Base Damage x (1 + Ability Strength) x Enemy Level Multiplier

Enemy Level Multiplier = ceil(Enemy Level / 10)

 

True Damage against a level 175 Corrupted Heavy Gunner (HP: 97,792):

  • 100% Ability Strength: 8500 True Damage (~9% Health Damage)
  • 150% Ability Strength: 12,750 True Damage (~13% Health Damage)
  • 200% Ability Strength: 17,000 True Damage (~17% Health Damage)
  • 250% Ability Strength: 21,250 True Damage (~22% Health Damage)

 

Just to compare...here is a rough estimation of the same scaling equation, but with the damage reduction caused by Ferrite Armor and Impact Damage on Cloned Flesh:

 

Impact Damage against a level 175 Corrupted Heavy Gunner (HP: 97,792):

  • 100% Ability Strength: ~190 Impact Damage (~0.2% Health Damage)
  • 150% Ability Strength: ~284 Impact Damage (~0.3% Health Damage)
  • 200% Ability Strength: ~379 Impact Damage (~0.4% Health Damage)
  • 250% Ability Strength: ~474 Impact Damage (~0.5% Health Damage)

it is true but I didn't say how it will work for I said something close to it for this may work pretty well for his punch can be used as finisher can be prove more useful and worth using but come think about it if this was apply to all the warframe's 1 ability the players will use this in steel path a whole lot in mathematical sum it down to ppl "probably some or a lot more".  Not every frame will actually be the same but have to rescale and rework depending who's part in the frame needed actually rework best they can be.

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8 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

why do you think it needs a rework, when I said almost the same I never said it have to be exact the same for making a rework is unlimited thought possibility for it could of been nekros 1 punch turn enemies into undead if chance or whatever in matter level which I keep on saying it is going face rework rather you like it or not for we all can't assumed is correct to be or not for Nekros is needed rework on his 1.

Because it doesnt need a rework. Its ok, a average 1 ability that has cc and due to being a 1h upper body one on a frame that doesnt have those on the remaining abilities actually sees use without any augments.

What i did say is it could have its damage buffed (keeping all of its functionality as is the same) to scale at least a bit.

 

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1 hour ago, Andele3025 said:

Oh i know, my point for flechette was that its scaling being a independent damage multiplier in calc makes the impact of power strength slightly iffy. Tho as said before wouldnt mind much if they went with the route as its a VERY functional fix for the kit gap, just that personal preference is if possible to not as (at least IMO) its a bigger design trap than % damage (which DE already solved when liches presented the effect revenant had by remembering "it can always have a upper cap as well as lower").

I see value in both methods of scaling, especially if they are utilized to establish a balanced damage-for-cost on abilities.

Both have rather large conflicts with other mechanics currently in play, but lead down alternate development paths if their respective conflicts are resolved. IMO, the percentage-based path would appear to have less influence on the balancing of weapons.

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46 minutes ago, MasterBurik said:

I see value in both methods of scaling, especially if they are utilized to establish a balanced damage-for-cost on abilities.

Both have rather large conflicts with other mechanics currently in play, but lead down alternate development paths if their respective conflicts are resolved. IMO, the percentage-based path would appear to have less influence on the balancing of weapons.

And more notably for players even ignoring any build and team comp stuff, it wouldnt be effected by DE pulling the OV and Railjack release "balance" of making enemy level not representative of their stats compared to others of their kind (elite overtaker having 100 base hp, double the base shields and 14 levels of scaling aka starting 5x advantage over techs for example).

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10 hours ago, Andele3025 said:

Because it doesnt need a rework. Its ok, a average 1 ability that has cc and due to being a 1h upper body one on a frame that doesnt have those on the remaining abilities actually sees use without any augments.

What i did say is it could have its damage buffed (keeping all of its functionality as is the same) to scale at least a bit.

 

as again, there is always possible in rework either it is put into scaling method or end up just keeping the fastest 1h casting in a rework his ability keep this in mind it just his ability of his 1 will change for I never ask for his animation change.  Yet always keep this in mind the dev will end up doing rework his 1 to either more advantages or be ok or worst but as I am saying we cannot imagine what better rework would be. For example, the rework could have additional random buffs keep almost like his old but making wider AoE keeping your additon bonus and has small chance make temporary unread ally but DE would of see it too powerful and probably take away which one not needed or we could end up with another different rework that just give nekros to actually control like rev but unlike rev as near by undead ally receiving bonus near by it of act like shield of shadow or some sort.   This is a type bandaid I am talking about for players is willing use it more even thou it is a finisher this is where it become a flaw even thou it is a scale it is a  player chose end up willing to do it but will they end up forgetting it pressing that button.  More likely other frames would like to have the scale dmg for more likely I would like that be on chroma but unlike nekros he only do it on 1 target for it isn't type AoE like vauban in the start by opening the view bit more for explain about it. 

More of possible DE is not willing bother scaling him because well... I can actually super fast cast it no matter what and the dev is going end up as you know "nerf speed" that is why I am refering as rework find a reason not have his ability seem a route get nerf but an good reason get dev to buff it without punishment in the future.  That is why if we scale it it would nerf the other side of nekros's of your favourite 1h speed touch for it could go slowly like video clip you saw when nekros prime's soul punch.  This scale will end up being controlled as well by DE for they know nerf which one for more likely his speed animation will be nerf hard or the timing it sets off in his 1 ability.

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