The boring state of melee: can DE adopt fighting styles and mechanics from Sekiro and Ghost of tsushima?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, FRTE_Ret5o said:

Oh yeah parry time in a shooter game XD that woud really upgrade this game in partucular(notice the sarcasm)

It's not a shooter game.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

2 hours ago, FRTE_Ret5o said:

Oh yeah parry time in a shooter game XD that woud really upgrade this game in partucular(notice the sarcasm)

that was the worst sarcasm that i ever seeing 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

It's not a shooter game.

 

40 minutes ago, (PS4)yokai1235 said:

that was the worst sarcasm that i ever seeing 

Damn, i didn't even have to think of a clever comeback 

thanks guys 😊

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Oreades said:

I demand a Warframe Cart Racer!

Now that is a PvP mode I'd get behind in this game, dedicated servers or not!

[OniDax]

The main thing Warframe's melee needs is just smooth-flowing animations, no unnecessary pauses or things like that.

If DE would just touch up some of the stances so that there aren't weird pauses, making the combat flow smoother, it would be better. Any improvements to melee are for those players, not for you all who nuke maps in a few seconds.

[Zentun.]

Darksiders (1 and 2) was a really fun hack and slash game, not great but fun to play, so in the third game they completely changed the combat system, they copied dark souls and now the combat is a souls like, guess what? is by far the worst game in the franchise, they turned a hack and slash into a souls like, a huge part of the fan base hate this game, you can check steam reviews, so no, DE wont change the melee combat, this is a horde game with fast combat, good luck to fight a horde with a souls like combat. If you want DE kills warframe this is a good way to start, so... No! Thanks.

[Zeclem]

while there are improvements to be made to the melee system, claiming that there are no differences between combos and stances is dishonest. different stances generally have different types of multipliers, forced procs, reach and multihits. are they more streamlined compared to how it was before? yes. but the differences are still there and are important.

and combos are definitely different as well. when you wanna focus on one target, you are better off doing the block combo since those get better multipliers. when you want large swipes you are better off standing or forward combo because they have the largest reach. when you need a gap closer, you use block+forward combo. they are absolutely different from each other.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

3 hours ago, Zentun. said:

Darksiders (1 and 2) was a really fun hack and slash game, not great but fun to play, so in the third game they completely changed the combat system, they copied dark souls and now the combat is a souls like, guess what? is by far the worst game in the franchise, they turned a hack and slash into a souls like, a huge part of the fan base hate this game, you can check steam reviews, so no, DE wont change the melee combat, this is a horde game with fast combat, good luck to fight a horde with a souls like combat. If you want DE kills warframe this is a good way to start, so... No! Thanks.

I would be fine that some random mooks with guns don't require anything, just charge in and tear them up, but i would also like that melee enemies would require a little more effort. Of course, The best would be if you could actually fight in melee against bosses, instead of just walking at them and swinging until they die.

I tried to melee stalker. I go and hit him, he remains unmoved. He hits me and staggered every time. Block is less than useless as he just keeps swinging. So the only way to do it is to zoom past with some fast attacks and jumps and that is it. No combat, just mash and mash.

I have played the first and second darksiders and the second one already went more into a new direction. Can't block, can't counter, just dodge. I guess the idea is that death is faster, war is stronger. Gathering random weapon drops and all that crap. Would have been better without random weapon gathering. Don't know about the third.

Besides, i don't want it to be bad like dark souls combat, could be something unique instead. You know, something more than swinging blindly.

[MasterBurik]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Now that is a PvP mode I'd get behind in this game, dedicated servers or not!

But because we're ninjas, they've replaced the "carts" with our Warframes.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

21 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

What do you want me to say to this? 

I make different topics about melee based on different times and updates, the melee 2.0, melee 2.9 melee 3.0

And i haven't talked about melee for a full year

It's useless comments like this that makes me wonder if You guys want anything changed about the game ever 🤔

I like it!  The only way to fight the jaded Savagery of the Proletariat is to give it back in the only language that they understand!

Let IRON sharpen IRON! (With a smile of course) 🔥😎🔥

[NightmareT12]

On 2020-07-23 at 3:00 AM, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Sure. Every time a new game comes out, we'll take their best feature and add it to warframe.

 

What do you think they've been doing the past 7 years lmao

6 hours ago, Zentun. said:

Darksiders (1 and 2) was a really fun hack and slash game, not great but fun to play, so in the third game they completely changed the combat system, they copied dark souls and now the combat is a souls like, guess what? is by far the worst game in the franchise, they turned a hack and slash into a souls like, a huge part of the fan base hate this game, you can check steam reviews, so no, DE wont change the melee combat, this is a horde game with fast combat, good luck to fight a horde with a souls like combat. If you want DE kills warframe this is a good way to start, so... No! Thanks.

The real issue with Darksiders was that when THQ went down and Vigil disappeared the combat designer from DSII went on another route (IDK where he's working right now). Damn me if I didn't have much fun in the Crucible all those years ago.

[Vyra]

On 2020-07-23 at 2:50 AM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Melee is boring, lifeless soulless button mashing.

Every weapon is the same, every build is the same.

Crit and Viral hybrid build

Or corrosive heavy attack build

Stances are dumbed down and normalized to practically add no benefit, or no versatility whatsoever

I don't think DE will ever touch melee again for a long time, melee will stay that way until the game shuts down

However in an alternate reality, was there a chance to rework melee so that it adapts the blocking mechanics of sekiro and the stance switching of ghost of tsushima?

I love melee. Infact melee is very effective now.

Stances are also an option.

[fo3nixz]

mayb nioh 2 style melee can be intresting

[KittySkin]

Well, no. Sekiro its horrendous for a horde shooter, idk about the other game, but for this kind of game the combo system its fantastic. They can add back combos and side combos, but having a streamlined input for every single weapon its fantastic, and wait combos, mixed inputs for combos, etc are not something warframe can pull on any accessible way.

Old system was heavy DMC based and those mixed inputs per combo where a nightmare for any meaningfull ammount of enemies.

We need more combos using the current input idea of a single input for all the combos for each cathegory.

E alone: high damage, low mobility, low CC.

E+B: mid damage, low mobility, high CC.

W+E: mid damage, high mobility, low CC.

W+E+B: low damage, high mobility, high CC.

And with that it can be added combos that displace you backwards, make you do sidesteps and sidehits or gives you a "jump attack" to chain it with a slam attack, aerial melee, etc.

Also, lets be honest. Melee needs a nerf haha, I spam melee a lot and the fact that on steel path its either melee, buffed weapons or mesa makes one realize that either ranged weapons are trash or melee are broken as #*!%. A base damage reduction across the board can help with that.

[(PSN)yokai1235]

20 hours ago, Zentun. said:

Darksiders (1 and 2) was a really fun hack and slash game, not great but fun to play, so in the third game they completely changed the combat system, they copied dark souls and now the combat is a souls like, guess what? is by far the worst game in the franchise, they turned a hack and slash into a souls like, a huge part of the fan base hate this game, you can check steam reviews, so no, DE wont change the melee combat, this is a horde game with fast combat, good luck to fight a horde with a souls like combat. If you want DE kills warframe this is a good way to start, so... No! Thanks.

you know you can change the combat in the settings 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 hours ago, KittySkin said:

We need more combos using the current input idea of a single input for all the combos for each cathegory.

E alone: high damage, low mobility, low CC.

E+B: mid damage, low mobility, high CC.

W+E: mid damage, high mobility, low CC.

W+E+B: low damage, high mobility, high CC.

Sorry, but I couldn't find those on my controller, which one is the B? I think that Xbox has a B button? Do I need to get one, the nice young man in the store said that they don't work with the playstations? 

[Ethorin]

Ah yes, let's copy the melee from games designed around 1v1 duels into a game where few enemies are melee and none of them are gonna just group up around you and take turns trying to hit you, this is a brilliant idea that won't result in abusing it for easy aoe damage... yesssss...

 

This has been, your sarcastic reply to sheer absurdity for the week.

 

More seriously, back when Channeling was a thing there was this thing you could do where you channel with a properly timed block and open a melee attacker up to a finisher, I did it all of ONCE in order to see what it did. It was kind of cool yeah, but since I had to wait a bit to actually pull it off and nothing melee is ALSO tanky except for enemies that you can't afford to wait on killing(Ancients) it was pretty useless. To the best of my knowledge it went away with Channeling.

 

Fundamentally, trying for a "deep" melee system doesn't really make much sense in a game where you are killing as fast as Warframe demands. I suppose you could maybe get more engagement from such a system in solo play, but in squad all making melee work like in Sekiro or Ghost of Tsushima or any similar game is going to do is send melee into the garbage heap because it leaves you with like, 10 kills at the end of a 20 minute survival because everyone else was killing the enemy too fast for your deep melee to do anything.

[KittySkin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Sorry, but I couldn't find those on my controller, which one is the B? I think that Xbox has a B button? Do I need to get one, the nice young man in the store said that they don't work with the playstations? 

Haha, sorry, Imeant "Block". W = forward, etc. I guess that you get the idea haha

[protecttheplanet]

Melee is pretty fun don't know what ur talking about tbh

[MouadSaqui]

I can already hear "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO" without reading any comments in this thread 

[Takamori]

Its an ARPG,so both Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima combat wouldn't be a fitting choice for this game at all.

Someone mentioned Nioh thats is basically dark souls meets diablo, but the core of the game is still a more careful approach in combat, the ARPG aspect of the game only happens after you finish the game and its not balanced at all, just something the devs left for people to play the game more.

What could be done is having a talent tree for melee where you can customize your attack animations for each weapons. And allow players to switch stances to have animations for Horde and animations for single attack.

Because the other way around to fit this would basically introduce melee skills where you press a button and the warframe does a special attack.

 

[OniDax]

3 minutes ago, Takamori said:

Its an ARPG,so both Sekiro and Ghost of Tsushima combat wouldn't be a fitting choice for this game at all.

Someone mentioned Nioh thats is basically dark souls meets diablo, but the core of the game is still a more careful approach in combat, the ARPG aspect of the game only happens after you finish the game and its not balanced at all, just something the devs left for people to play the game more.

What could be done is having a talent tree for melee where you can customize your attack animations for each weapons. And allow players to switch stances to have animations for Horde and animations for single attack.

Because the other way around to fit this would basically introduce melee skills where you press a button and the warframe does a special attack.

 

That's a new one. I haven't seen people call Warframe an ARPG before. I've seen people call it an MMO (it's not massively multiplayer), but never ARPG. Warframe isn't an action roleplaying game, because it isn't a roleplaying game. That's like saying Call of Duty Modern Warfare (2019) is a roleplaying game because you play as different characters.

All Warframe's melee needs is improved animations: melee animations that feel natural and flow smoothly between combos, and enemy animations that react to the different combos (so, unique melee staggers when being hit).

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

On 2020-07-22 at 7:50 PM, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Melee is boring, lifeless soulless button mashing.

Every weapon is the same, every build is the same.

Crit and Viral hybrid build

Or corrosive heavy attack build

Stances are dumbed down and normalized to practically add no benefit, or no versatility whatsoever

I don't think DE will ever touch melee again for a long time, melee will stay that way until the game shuts down

However in an alternate reality, was there a chance to rework melee so that it adapts the blocking mechanics of sekiro and the stance switching of ghost of tsushima?

I know how you feel, I want more variety in attacks too without having to keep pushing the same button again and again, but there is no way in hell DE would rework the melee system to copy another game whose systems are polished to near perfection. There's just no way it's happening, sorry, get used to it.

[Traumtulpe]

On 2020-07-23 at 5:25 AM, WindigoTG said:

Barely any stance has a moveset where any of 4 inputs has any real difference from the rest. And not a single one has all 4 of its inputs being functionally unique from one another. Not a single one.

Try Blind Justice. A 360° combo with lifted status, one with slash status, one to yeet that Nox and let it bleed out in a corner, a very good dash attack, and an excellent slide attack as a bonus. I quite like it.

Of course most stances are indeed terrible, but you can find exceptions.

[(PSN)TheWanderer17]

Enable new or existing enemy melee units to enter a defensive posture resulting in blocking our strike and halting our onslaught.  A very short pull back would be enough to at least create some type of dynamic experience rather than the non-stop forward flow of death strikes.