Why does everyone NOT want better rewards for Hard Mode.

[BernieBlack]

Seriously, it's baffling. I've never seen a playerbase try to argue "Nooo don't reward our efforts. No engagement just grind."

Its reasonable to expect better rewards for harder difficulty, and in every mmolite/looter that's the case except in Warframe. There were several options DE could have taken to keep this game mode alive and appease fans. 

Exponential drops: instead of 300 endo reward 3000, instead of a 1000 credit cache reward 10000. 

Cosmetics and skins: they could have added a weapon skin or badge/sigil at the end of every planet, and no, those copy pasted emotes don't count. Statues are nice but it isn't something we can really show off. A simple armor piece or badge would have sufficed. And on each planet you could have put a unique skin hidden in the drop tables of the AABC rotations. Hell even if it's a gold color version of weapons we use that would have been more than enough.

Instead we got gender exclusive armor for operators, which I don't what the public sentiment is but I really don't care about operators. And we got ephemeral. And those rewards can't even be bought with the steel essence we earn from completing the star chart. 

The worst part is half the fan base it seems is arguing they don't want it to be any better. Who argues AGAINST getting better rewards?! I understand DEs "intentions," they only added this for vets wanting higher level enemies, but from the outside it looks like a harder challenge with crap rewards. Imagine coming into this fresh and seeing steel path for the first time, getting excited and finding out it only rewards skins and ephemeras with a currency that you won't even have enough of by completing said hard mode. 

This game is in some weird and perplexing bubble when a playerbase seems to think they shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts.

[XRosenkreuz]

The thing you need to understand about the Warframe playerbase is that it does not matter what gets changed; there will always be a cluster of people complaining about it.

Something gets added? We don't need it. Something gets taken away? That was essential. Something gets nerfed? Now it's too weak and useless. Buffed? Too strong and invalidates everything else. It's always been like that. Best to just shrug it off and move on.

[Kimimoto]

It's simple, the forums want the game to die
Any positive feedback or logical criticism is met with blind stupidity on behalf of DE
That's why this place is a joke, and everyone considers it toxic

Example: someone will quote the last line and say, "NOT EVERYONE, I DON'T, YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR THE MAJORITY!"

Aight

[BernieBlack]

Just now, XRosenkreuz said:

The thing you need to understand about the Warframe playerbase is that it does not matter what gets changed; there will always be a cluster of people complaining about it.

Something gets added? We don't need it. Something gets taken away? That was essential. Something gets nerfed? Now it's too weak and useless. Buffed? Too strong and invalidates everything else. It's always been like that. Best to just shrug it off and move on.

True, it just perplexes me. Its like arguing against a pay raise for your efforts. 

"Don't give me more money boss. In fact, take my weekends too."

[-Kittens-]

8 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Seriously, it's baffling. I've never seen a playerbase try to argue "Nooo don't reward our efforts. No engagement just grind."

Its reasonable to expect better rewards for harder difficulty, and in every mmolite/looter that's the case except in Warframe. There were several options DE could have taken to keep this game mode alive and appease fans. 

Exponential drops: instead of 300 endo reward 3000, instead of a 1000 credit cache reward 10000. 

Cosmetics and skins: they could have added a weapon skin or badge/sigil at the end of every planet, and no, those copy pasted emotes don't count. Statues are nice but it isn't something we can really show off. A simple armor piece or badge would have sufficed. And on each planet you could have put a unique skin hidden in the drop tables of the AABC rotations. Hell even if it's a gold color version of weapons we use that would have been more than enough.

Instead we got gender exclusive armor for operators, which I don't what the public sentiment is but I really don't care about operators. And we got ephemeral. And those rewards can't even be bought with the steel essence we earn from completing the star chart. 

The worst part is half the fan base it seems is arguing they don't want it to be any better. Who argues AGAINST getting better rewards?! I understand DEs "intentions," they only added this for vets wanting higher level enemies, but from the outside it looks like a harder challenge with crap rewards. Imagine coming into this fresh and seeing steel path for the first time, getting excited and finding out it only rewards skins and ephemeras with a currency that you won't even have enough of by completing said hard mode. 

This game is in some weird and perplexing bubble when a playerbase seems to think they shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts.

Your magical argument with faker actors is fake. You'll find by any metric even the half assed metric of using your eyes in a lazy and halfassed way that the vast majority of the player base wants both a harder hard mode than currently exists and commensurate rewards without rng bullS#&$.

Given your forum icon however, I think the obvious problem with your premise is pretty obvious.

Also the giant sample size DE used was 2000 people over four days, which means either no one is actually playing this game if DE considers that an accurate enough spread versus their supposed xbawx hueg playerbase, and or DE has no idea how to accurately test things. I'll leave you to consider which is likely more accurate, but again given your tribal camp, I won't be hanging around for the answer.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Because you'll just make things worse. If you increase rewards here's what happens. Firstly the veterans like myself will farm the hell out of it and get our loot. Next the casuals will whine and create a flood of tears in the forums about being "unable to do the content", "it's not fair, I started playing this game 3 days ago and I can't access it". Next DE will bend over and take it up the pipe to please the crybabies and nerf the ever living hell out of the content. Lastly the veterans will be angry and demand more challenging content from DE. 

And so the cycle of Warframe is complete and we'll end up at square one again only now Steel Path is the only thing being played, casuals and new players are simply getting taxi'd through the normal star chart and then taxi'd through Steel Path to whatever is the hot new grind/loot spot and even more content created by DE is now being ignored and all their extra development time for SP and also now, the normal star chart, is wasted.

The only mistake DE made was tying it to MR. 

[BernieBlack]

1 minute ago, -Kittens- said:

Your magical argument with faker actors is fake. You'll find by any metric even the half assed metric of using your eyes in a lazy and halfassed way that the vast majority of the player base wants both a harder hard mode and commensurate rewards without rng bullS#&$.

Given your forum icon however, I think the obvious problem with your premise is pretty obvious.

 

Dude, just read the post this title is copying. We seem to be on the same side I don't see why you're coming after me. And I picked my icon because it was one of several free ones. Maybe you need a break from these forums. 

[BernieBlack]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Because you'll just make things worse. If you increase rewards here's what happens. Firstly the veterans like myself will farm the hell out of it and get our loot. Next the casuals will whine and create a flood of tears in the forums about being "unable to do the content", "it's not fair, I started playing this game 3 days ago and I can't access it". Next DE will bend over and take it up the pipe to please the crybabies and nerf the ever living hell out of the content. Lastly the veterans will be angry and demand more challenging content from DE. 

And so the cycle of Warframe is complete and we'll end up at square one again only now Steel Path is the only thing being played, casuals and new players are simply getting taxi'd through the normal star chart and then taxi'd through Steel Path to whatever is the hot new grind/loot spot and even more content created by DE is now being ignored and all their extra development time for SP and also now, the normal star chart, is wasted.

The only mistake DE made was tying it to MR. 

If they keep appeasing to casuals then we'll have the same issue we have now where players get to the end and find theres nothing meaningful to do, and most new players aren't going to bother getting over the wall that is this games intro.

[Lutesque]

2 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

If they keep appeasing to casuals then we'll have the same issue we have now where players get to the end and find theres nothing meaningful to do, and most new players aren't going to bother getting over the wall that is this games intro.

Yeah but... if the shows over then why not just close Warframe and play something else. Real End Game is understanding what the word "End" actually means.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

If they keep appeasing to casuals then we'll have the same issue we have now where players get to the end and find theres nothing meaningful to do, and most new players aren't going to bother getting over the wall that is this games intro.

Oh I completely agree with you there, this however is the sad truth. I'm not sure exactly when they turned to the dark side but around the time that operators were introduced and people were fashion framing them, DE suddenly went "hey if we concentrate on cosmetics instead of meaningful content, quests for frames, endgame missions and rewards and decent events, we can make a ton of money off all the new players that are attracted to our f2p game". And since then, it's very obviously been their focus and that means they're always going to cater to the casual crowd that makes up the majority of their new players who are buying plat with daddy's credit card. Older players don't buy as much plat, we already have it. Some buy prime access to support DE etc but it's the new players that generate income and that's why they always bend over backwards when the tears hit the forums and nerf the content. You just have to look at the end of Nightwave rewards to recognise this obvious angle they've taken.

[BernieBlack]

Just now, Lutesque said:

Yeah but... if the shows over then why not just close Warframe and play something else. Real End Game is understanding what the word "End" actually means.

Going by the diminishing numbers on steam and twitch, I would say players are already doing that. 

[Traumtulpe]

10 minutes ago, -Kittens- said:

Also the giant sample size DE used was 2000 people over four days

And we told DE that the balance seems about right, but we would like to have a reason (reward) for playing those missions all over again.

Subsequently DE made it easier and added an unappealing cosmetic set. Then a decent Ephemera (Tatsu recycled).

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

And we told DE that the balance seems about right, but we would like to have a reason (reward) for playing those missions all over again.

Subsequently DE made it easier and added an unappealing cosmetic set. Then a decent Ephemera (Tatsu recycled).

And they made it cost the same as the rest of the cosmetics combined lol 

[MasterBurik]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Subsequently DE made it easier and added an unappealing cosmetic set. Then a decent Ephemera (Tatsu recycled).

Considering the cosmetics are also recycled assets, perhaps DE should send out a survey to see what assets players find appealing enough to see them reused. They might be received better if we were providing input in that area as well. 😉

 

[trst]

It isn't arguing against rewards it's arguing against casual players flooding the mode and forcing DE to nerf it into the ground like they have done with every single other one of DE's attempts at "hard" content.

The crowd that this was made for has waited for several years for something like this. Can we not ruin it for just this once?

[Vyra]

Of course i like rewards.

But i would not demand them for SP because it wasn't THAT hard to complete the Starchart anyway. The harder nodes were the reason for me completing bit again. Because before SP,  it felt like playing with godmode on...

Also, since i am satisfied with most equip i have, i could not think f a "worthy" reward id want to have apart from some very specialised ephemeras or smth i would design for this game.

[BernieBlack]

6 minutes ago, trst said:

It isn't arguing against rewards it's arguing against casual players flooding the mode and forcing DE to nerf it into the ground like they have done with every single other one of DE's attempts at "hard" content.

The crowd that this was made for has waited for several years for something like this. Can we not ruin it for just this once?

Fair, I didn't think about that. They could just NOT nerf it though, but I guess DEs repertoire with the players is a double edges sword.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

45 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Seriously, it's baffling. I've never seen a playerbase try to argue "Nooo don't reward our efforts. No engagement just grind."

Its reasonable to expect better rewards for harder difficulty, and in every mmolite/looter that's the case except in Warframe. There were several options DE could have taken to keep this game mode alive and appease fans. 

Exponential drops: instead of 300 endo reward 3000, instead of a 1000 credit cache reward 10000. 

Cosmetics and skins: they could have added a weapon skin or badge/sigil at the end of every planet, and no, those copy pasted emotes don't count. Statues are nice but it isn't something we can really show off. A simple armor piece or badge would have sufficed. And on each planet you could have put a unique skin hidden in the drop tables of the AABC rotations. Hell even if it's a gold color version of weapons we use that would have been more than enough.

Instead we got gender exclusive armor for operators, which I don't what the public sentiment is but I really don't care about operators. And we got ephemeral. And those rewards can't even be bought with the steel essence we earn from completing the star chart. 

The worst part is half the fan base it seems is arguing they don't want it to be any better. Who argues AGAINST getting better rewards?! I understand DEs "intentions," they only added this for vets wanting higher level enemies, but from the outside it looks like a harder challenge with crap rewards. Imagine coming into this fresh and seeing steel path for the first time, getting excited and finding out it only rewards skins and ephemeras with a currency that you won't even have enough of by completing said hard mode. 

This game is in some weird and perplexing bubble when a playerbase seems to think they shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts.

This. I wouldnt even mind if the rewards weren't "great"  

 

I just want it to be worth the effort.

[vanaukas]

Just now, BernieBlack said:

Fair, I didn't think about that. They could just NOT nerf it though, but I guess DEs repertoire with the players is a double edges sword.

The whole point was to cater that audience and they were very clear on what to expect about difficulty and rewards. Casuals are the reason why arbitrations aren't real hard anymore. I wish they could bring back the old arbitration for steel path.

[Xaero]

I definitely won't mind more rewards. As well as some additional restrictions, such as AoE not going through walls and obstacles, stat sticks not working at all, soft cooldown on abilities.

[Jiminez_Burial]

52 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

This game is in some weird and perplexing bubble when a playerbase seems to think they shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts.

Extrinsic vs intrinsic motivation.  Maybe people are ok with how things are because it doesn't matter to them what the extrinsic reward is.  If they're intrinsically motivated then the increase in difficulty (no matter how lazy it is) is itself the reward.

[Pizzarugi]

I like playing on public matchmaking to avoid the terrible enemy spawns in solo, and I don't see Steel Path being anything except a ghost town after everyone gets their rewards and complete all mission nodes.

It's bad enough it doesn't cover things like Void Fissures or Syndicate missions. There's very little in the way of incentive to stick with it after you've completed everything unless you like solo and are the special kind of madman who farms Kuva to craft god-roll rivens.

[JackHargreav]

Maybe because I don't want to farm more essence for mods or weapons.

I'm fine with a simple completionist reward like the operator armor since I look at hard mode as in any other game. It's there to challenge yourself and some reward at the end is a nice extra.

[Zahnny]

1 hour ago, Kimimoto said:

Example: someone will quote the last line and say, "NOT EVERYONE, I DON'T, YOU DON'T SPEAK FOR THE MAJORITY!"

You have no idea how often these people infuriate me. They'll act as a collective and might even intentionally or unintentionally enjoy being one, but when you call out their behavior they'll suddenly jump to saying they don't conform to what everyone does and that I need to stop being so bigoted without realising their own hypocrisy.

I'll be honest, some of the opinion posts I put out there are flawed and I am subject to be called out for that but so many times it feels like dogpiling and insulting. More notably, insulting someones intelligence or assuming the other person doesn't know what they're talking about. The one thing that really provokes me the most is when they try to imply that I've not played the game. You understand it hurts when you accuse Devs of not playing their game. Imagine how that must feel to a player like me who views Warframe as their current favourite game? Let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with stating the obvious but try to phrase it in a way that doesn't feel like you're trying to discredit me as a player. I forget the exact thread but I made one a while ago and two of the first replies was something akin to "You've ever heard of forma?" and that hurt. That genuinely hurt. It made me feel insecure about my time on this game. Worthless even. I know it's a silly thing to get upset about but it genuinely cut deep even if that wasn't the intent. I try to act professional, or slightly professional with my posts on the forums but some of the low effort comments that disregard or insult me can honestly make a huge difference in if I can enjoy a thread or not.

I'm just so sick of being attacked by certain game opinionated extremists on the forums that try to assume the intent behind my posts. I'm not sucking up to DE on everything they do, but that doesn't mean I want the game to burn in a ditch. I love this game and I want it to succeed. And there's a lot on my mind regarding this game as of late, espically with a potential Tencent buyout. Let's say the worst scenario happens, let's say the best scenario happens in regards to what happens to Warframe. I still probably will play it and I will probably be a fool for doing so but I'd have a hard time leaving this game too. I have concerns that with bans to Chinese things like Tiktok, that Warframe could be seen as a threat and be banned in certain countries, meaning whether I hate or love what Tencent does to it, I'd be unable to play it again. I'm trying to keep optimistic and cheerful for Tennocon but sometimes it can feel like a falling veil.

Sorry to go on a rant I just really needed to vent on how the forums bother me at times. Some people abuse what things they can get away with saying on the forums and upset others, but at the same time I genuinely don't want to restrict what players can say anymore than is necessary. It's just so conflicting and soul destroying at times.

[BernieBlack]

18 minutes ago, Zahnny said:

You have no idea how often these people infuriate me. They'll act as a collective and might even intentionally or unintentionally enjoy being one, but when you call out their behavior they'll suddenly jump to saying they don't conform to what everyone does and that I need to stop being so bigoted without realising their own hypocrisy.

I'll be honest, some of the opinion posts I put out there are flawed and I am subject to be called out for that but so many times it feels like dogpiling and insulting. More notably, insulting someones intelligence or assuming the other person doesn't know what they're talking about. The one thing that really provokes me the most is when they try to imply that I've not played the game. You understand it hurts when you accuse Devs of not playing their game. Imagine how that must feel to a player like me who views Warframe as their current favourite game? Let me be clear, there's nothing wrong with stating the obvious but try to phrase it in a way that doesn't feel like you're trying to discredit me as a player. I forget the exact thread but I made one a while ago and two of the first replies was something akin to "You've ever heard of forma?" and that hurt. That genuinely hurt. It made me feel insecure about my time on this game. Worthless even. I know it's a silly thing to get upset about but it genuinely cut deep even if that wasn't the intent. I try to act professional, or slightly professional with my posts on the forums but some of the low effort comments that disregard or insult me can honestly make a huge difference in if I can enjoy a thread or not.

I'm just so sick of being attacked by certain game opinionated extremists on the forums that try to assume the intent behind my posts. I'm not sucking up to DE on everything they do, but that doesn't mean I want the game to burn in a ditch. I love this game and I want it to succeed. And there's a lot on my mind regarding this game as of late, espically with a potential Tencent buyout. Let's say the worst scenario happens, let's say the best scenario happens in regards to what happens to Warframe. I still probably will play it and I will probably be a fool for doing so but I'd have a hard time leaving this game too. I have concerns that with bans to Chinese things like Tiktok, that Warframe could be seen as a threat and be banned in certain countries, meaning whether I hate or love what Tencent does to it, I'd be unable to play it again. I'm trying to keep optimistic and cheerful for Tennocon but sometimes it can feel like a falling veil.

Sorry to go on a rant I just really needed to vent on how the forums bother me at times. Some people abuse what things they can get away with saying on the forums and upset others, but at the same time I genuinely don't want to restrict what players can say anymore than is necessary. It's just so conflicting and soul destroying at times.

Um did you reply to the wrong post?