Why does everyone NOT want better rewards for Hard Mode.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Veruca. But point taken lol.

That clears it up. 😅

[BernieBlack]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Lol. No actually he wants everything on a silver platter. Hey maybe DE should make Inaros Prime free when we login next week, that'll keep the game going right? Do you not understand that this is a farming simulator? Without grind there is nothing to do in this game, nothing at all. Which is why seeing as I've done all the grinding I spend my time building in the dojo or helping clan members, until the next bit of content that drops.

But when the whole game is nothing but grind for no purpose other than the sake of it, what's the point? 

What do you do with all those weapons and mods you farmed for? What do you do with your maxed out arcanes (that used to only require 10 of but now require 21 for... reasons?)

We can go to Steel Path and try them out, which is fun for a little while but without a reward at the end of the rainbow what's the point? 

The guy was asking for a reason to go back to old content, for rotating rewards to spice things up and for useless rewards like the statues to be removed from content like sorties when they're completely irrelevant. Right now we sit on a mountain of alloy and mutagen with no way to convert them or sell them, so again I ask, what's the point? 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

14 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

But when the whole game is nothing but grind for no purpose other than the sake of it, what's the point? 

What do you do with all those weapons and mods you farmed for? What do you do with your maxed out arcanes (that used to only require 10 of but now require 21 for... reasons?)

We can go to Steel Path and try them out, which is fun for a little while but without a reward at the end of the rainbow what's the point? 

The guy was asking for a reason to go back to old content, for rotating rewards to spice things up and for useless rewards like the statues to be removed from content like sorties when they're completely irrelevant. Right now we sit on a mountain of alloy and mutagen with no way to convert them or sell them, so again I ask, what's the point? 

I mean no disrespect here. You're playing the wrong game for you. He wasn't asking for that, he was wanting more for less work. The problem is that this game is never going to offer those things, that's not their direction. This is again why I just grind out the content first few days with clan mates and then go back to enjoying other games while waiting for more content. It's a sad state of affairs but you need to realise it isn't going to change EVER. 

[BernieBlack]

13 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I mean no disrespect here. You're playing the wrong game for you. He wasn't asking for that, he was wanting more for less work. The problem is that this game is never going to offer those things, that's not their direction. This is again why I just grind out the content first few days with clan mates and then go back to enjoying other games while waiting for more content. It's a sad state of affairs but you need to realise it isn't going to change EVER. 

Yeah that doesn't sound like you're playing a game it sounds like you're doing a job. Like I get why there needs to be a grind in a game, but at this point there's SO much of it and all of it is limited by daily caps that the new player experience is miserable and veteran players are burnt out. 

What I don't get is if you agree its a sad state of affairs why are you still advocating for less rewards and more grind. You're shooting yourself in the foot here

[-CdG-Zilchy]

4 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Yeah that doesn't sound like you're playing a game it sounds like you're doing a job. Like I get why there needs to be a grind in a game, but at this point there's SO much of it and all of it is limited by daily caps that the new player experience is miserable and veteran players are burnt out. 

What I don't get is if you agree its a sad state of affairs why are you still advocating for less rewards and more grind. You're shooting yourself in the foot here

No it's not shooting myself in the foot, you're just fighting against inevitability. I don't mind the grind, I mind the lack of HARD CONTENT. But the grind doesn't bother me. I'm at the point of realising that without grind there is no warframe and there's no money for DE. But it is the lack of challenge I mind, not the grind. I'm in a good clan, it helps a lot.

[-AncientWarrior-]

Well I totally agree with OP, after many thousands hrs in this great game, completing every thing DE has thrown at me, and grinding on a daily basis I for one would like a place like Steel Path Gabii or Secura to go to farm Steel Essence with my squad mates, AND get better reward - (pffft 2% drop chance from eximus units is just a slap with granma's jandel) - .. apart from greater XP and resource which we just dont need .. most of us who have put in the hard time really only grind for a few things now .. kuva being the main one ..  why .. because its all that is really left to do.. Steel Path again has great potential for us but then DE dont want us there for long runs.. sooo.  we get crap drop chance and to get more eximus to get better drop rates we need to stay more than 1-2hrs but if we do that we get another slap with the tradeban jandel ..  The fix for all of this would be for DE to cut out the riven rng gambling system of cycling them and cut down the kuva required.. but .. its the usual case of mix and match from our great game designers.. need millions of kuva, get options to get said kuva but limit the ability to farm it for us that want to stay in one mission and get a decent amount..its a strange world in DE land :)

[Lutesque]

12 hours ago, BernieBlack said:

But when the whole game is nothing but grind for no purpose other than the sake of it, what's the point? 

To see who has the most Toys 🙂

12 hours ago, BernieBlack said:

What do you do with all those weapons and mods you farmed for?

Fashion Them 😛

12 hours ago, BernieBlack said:

We can go to Steel Path and try them out, which is fun for a little while but without a reward at the end of the rainbow what's the point?

The point is you get to use them... isnt it ?

I played The Bloody Palace on DmC and theres no reward in it... so why play it ? 

To see how far I could go (which wasnt far at all in my case) 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

5 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

To see who has the most Toys 🙂

Fashion Them 😛

The point is you get to use them... isnt it ?

I played The Bloody Palace on DmC and theres no reward in it... so why play it ? 

To see how far I could go (which wasnt far at all in my case) 

 

Some people don't get this. They get tunnel vision and only focus on the rewards. Every time they get one, they forget about it, and they demand another. They don't recognize the intrinsic pleasure people get from doing things unless they get a totally separate reward. 

They'll never be satisfied. Trying to satisfy them is always going to be an exercise in futility. 

🤷‍♂️

[Lutesque]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Some people don't get this. They get tunnel vision and only focus on the rewards. Every time they get one, they forget about it, and they demand another. They don't recognize the intrinsic pleasure people get from doing things unless they get a totally separate reward. 

They'll never be satisfied. Trying to satisfy them is always going to be an exercise in futility. 

🤷‍♂️

Yeah but... come on... is it really possible for a human being to exist without doing something for the sheer fun of it rather than expecting something Tangible in return ?

Maybe its because Im an Internet noob but i believe its possible for all players to want something they can do just for fun instead of rewards...

Hopefully I dont lose my Marbels trying to find this out 

[(PSN)TheWanderer17]

Isn't farming orokin cells where we spend most of our time grind anyways?  

If you ask me, the boosters are good enough.

I dont see value in putting new weapons in steel path that just bring everything to yet another power scale, cause then it wouldn't be difficult now would it.  If they want to sneak a few exclusive weapons in there that are the same as what we have powerwise from kuva, thats fine.  Honestly, I think it'd have been better if they just capped the damage of weapons and frame powers, but they went the enemy level/tank route which will inevitably be a joke as power creep is inevitable.

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yeah but... come on... is it really possible for a human being to exist without doing something for the sheer fun of it rather than expecting something Tangible in return ?

It absolutely is. People do it every day. We watch shows which entertain us without educating us or giving us material rewards. We sit on swings and try to touch the sky, because it fills us with joy, but doesn't fill our pockets. We spend a lot of money to catch fish and throw them back, because we enjoyed the challenge and hope to be able to do it again in the future, even though it doesn't put food on our plate. And we go down to new Amsterdam, stare at yellow-haired girls while Mr Jones strikes up conversations with black-haired flamenco dancers who dances while his father plays, because it makes us happy and that makes for a good song. 

 

5 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Maybe its because Im an Internet noob but i believe its possible for all players to want something they can do just for fun instead of rewards...

Many of us do. It's why games have been putting in things like selfie modes. There's no particular value for the player to be derived from stopping to smell the digital flowers. But we do it because we are having fun. 

22 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Hopefully I dont lose my Marbels trying to find this out 

Meh. 

[SneakyErvin]

14 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Lol. No actually he wants everything on a silver platter. Hey maybe DE should make Inaros Prime free when we login next week, that'll keep the game going right? Do you not understand that this is a farming simulator? Without grind there is nothing to do in this game, nothing at all. Which is why seeing as I've done all the grinding I spend my time building in the dojo or helping clan members, until the next bit of content that drops.

How did you get to that conclussion from what he said? He simply implies that the game has horrible loot, which it has, since it is mostly things we dont need because either we already have 1 of it or we have an abundance, like with materials. All he seems to want is interesting loot, like most other games have.

How many different types of loot do you care about when playing Steel Path for instance? 1, which is Steel Essence, the rest is a waste to put it mildly. What loot do you care about when running your avarage endless? Either nothing since you are there for affinity, or you want 1-2 out of the several relics that drop there or possibly kuva. Something that is tied to the mission success mostly. Killing things in WF is utterly pointless, the only reason for it is to keep the timer either going or make it as short as possible. I havent played any other game in the last 20 years where mob loot has actually been as worthless as it is in WF.

WF could certainly need new "equipment" items added on a regular basis, it doesnt have to be straight upgrades over what we have, it could simply be new build enablers. Heck, as much as people want modular frames it would be a splendid idea to add frame modification mods that replace certain skills with those of another frame while occupying a mod slot. 10 ranks where each rank gives 10% the effect/strength of the full skill(s) up to 100%. Base cost of the skill would be 8 or something, so it is really expensive.

[Samhel]

Because DE fears from doing the only things needed to shape the mindset of their players:

1. Connect every conent island and make them mandatory at some point

2. Make a mandatory Progression system that demands you to get stronger in order to access certain things

Right now the game is in a state where there are just enough barriers to make it seem like there's a progression system for new players so that they consider the game worthy for their time and effort to stay. Making every content island into core mechanics of the game has a few ways to get done, but because nobody hires someone just because he has good ideas, I won't give them to DE 😉

Last time the game was in a state where it really shined above every f2p game was when the second dream came out. Content islands and nonexistent progression system, favoring mostly players who don't even have time to get deeply into game mechanics, ruined the community and made it split into 1 big chunk of casuals crying about everything that is harder than lvl 30 and a lot of little pieces of older/veteran players still hoping for the game to finally shine again. 

That' why people don't want rewards. Casuals don't want them because it makes the steel path, or even any kind of progression, mandatory and veterans or experienced players don't want them so that casuals won't come over to the steel path and make it even more stressful at first and then getting nerfed to the ground by DE making it easier like they did with arbitrations. 

It all comes down to how DE shaped their community by trying to be too kind and soft with it, releasing things that always appeal to everyone for a ahort amount of time so that some players will surely play the game. They don't take the risk of making the game a great sci fi action rpg again. And that's why the community is messed up.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

11 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How did you get to that conclussion from what he said? He simply implies that the game has horrible loot, which it has, since it is mostly things we dont need because either we already have 1 of it or we have an abundance, like with materials. All he seems to want is interesting loot, like most other games have.

Can't believe I actually have to explain this. The part where he alluded to wanting to just kill hordes, other game modes are a chore etc and anyone with a different opinion should be ignored. That just screeches entitlement at me.

[Hypernaut1]

12 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

How did you get to that conclussion from what he said? He simply implies that the game has horrible loot, which it has, since it is mostly things we dont need because either we already have 1 of it or we have an abundance, like with materials. All he seems to want is interesting loot, like most other games have.

 

"Interesting loot" is based on rarity. Other games don't have tons of interesting loot, or it would cease to be interesting. Other games depend on RNG, so most of the loot is actually useless. 

DE has tried rarity. People complain because they "hate RNG"

[kgabor]

14 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

We spend a lot of money to catch fish and throw them back, because we enjoyed the challenge and hope to be able to do it again in the future, even though it doesn't put food on our plate.

Or if you also happen to enjoy cooking, it does.

That also takes a certain kind of skill and effort and even if your skills at cooking fish are not as refined as someone's like Gordon Ramsay, you're still learning, which is also a reward on its own.

I never got why would anyone release a catch, unless it's either too young/small or a type of fish that's too risky to eat, like Fugu, or if it's too complicated to serve to bother.

In contrast, Steel Path just doesn't offer much past a gearcheck to ensure that players running them learn how to bypass armor and shields, or cheese with invis or mass cc.

What it truly needs is a miniscule reward boost to ensure this content's longevity, such as f.ex. adding small amounts of Kuva to each enemy's drops, a conversion rate for Steel Essences to Kuva that makes sense (currently Arbitrations are faster, easier and more rewarding), maybe credit boosters too, because why not?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 hours ago, kgabor said:

I never got why would anyone release a catch, unless it's either too young/small or a type of fish that's too risky to eat, like Fugu, or if it's too complicated to serve to bother.

Well there are a few reasons. Some involve something along the lines of hoping to keep the big genes in the pool, which improves the chances of getting similar experiences in the future. Others involve the fact that you may not be able to make use of that much fish, like 200+ lbs, and weren't fishing commercially at the time. Another is that you may have just been fishing for sport, and so a picture is as good a trophy. 

But hey I live on an island in the Caribbean, and we mainly fish for saltwater fish, which can be pretty huge compared stuff like trout or even salmon. Long ago people used to bring up true behemoths clocking in at hundreds of pounds, pretty often. While you still get some during tournaments and stuff, commercial overfishing throughout the region has affected what we get and 250lbs+ is pretty rare. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

8 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Can't believe I actually have to explain this. The part where he alluded to wanting to just kill hordes, other game modes are a chore etc and anyone with a different opinion should be ignored. That just screeches entitlement at me.

But entitled isnt the same as spoiled, which silver platter implies. And I kinda agree with him, the missions that arent about killing large amounts of enemies are kinda boring and a chore. Capture isnt exactly interesting, neither is rescue. Heck, DE managed to spice up Mobile Defense with SP by actually upping the density massively, I actually like it now. But hey if you dont think spamming bullet jumping from a to b and then b to c is a chore, but instead actually find it interesting, good for you.

8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

"Interesting loot" is based on rarity. Other games don't have tons of interesting loot, or it would cease to be interesting. Other games depend on RNG, so most of the loot is actually useless. 

DE has tried rarity. People complain because they "hate RNG"

Interesting loot would be anything but resources pretty much. Imagine if Grineer would have this miniscule chance of dropping a random kuva weapon with catalyst installed already, that would lead to moments of excitement. Or if mobs had a very low chance of dropping a random unveiled riven or something. There is really only borderlands that has an absurdity of RNG which makes 99% (or 99.99% in BL3) of the loot worthless. 

DE however just introduces more and more 100% worthless loot. Riven Slivers from Steel Path for instance. We'll never be able to use them since there is a week long CD on the vendor. Yet each run practically gives us enough slivers for 1-2 rivens. Now if Pally would let us trade 10 or 15 slivers for 10k Kuva it suddenly wouldnt be worthless loot. And they do this over and over and over. Where they place the actually interesting loot behind a very specific mode mostly, so killing mobs turn into something that feels unrewarding and not very exciting.

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

But entitled isnt the same as spoiled, which silver platter implies. And I kinda agree with him, the missions that arent about killing large amounts of enemies are kinda boring and a chore. Capture isnt exactly interesting, neither is rescue. Heck, DE managed to spice up Mobile Defense with SP by actually upping the density massively, I actually like it now. But hey if you dont think spamming bullet jumping from a to b and then b to c is a chore, but instead actually find it interesting, good for you.

Interesting loot would be anything but resources pretty much. Imagine if Grineer would have this miniscule chance of dropping a random kuva weapon with catalyst installed already, that would lead to moments of excitement. Or if mobs had a very low chance of dropping a random unveiled riven or something. There is really only borderlands that has an absurdity of RNG which makes 99% (or 99.99% in BL3) of the loot worthless. 

DE however just introduces more and more 100% worthless loot. Riven Slivers from Steel Path for instance. We'll never be able to use them since there is a week long CD on the vendor. Yet each run practically gives us enough slivers for 1-2 rivens. Now if Pally would let us trade 10 or 15 slivers for 10k Kuva it suddenly wouldnt be worthless loot. And they do this over and over and over. Where they place the actually interesting loot behind a very specific mode mostly, so killing mobs turn into something that feels unrewarding and not very exciting.

Ok. I'm imagining Grineer dropping a random Kuva weapon.

Scenario 1. It's rare and players complain about miniscule drop chance and being forced to farm, etc. (Steel essence)

Scenario 2. Its not rare and its considered a garbage drop after a while (Orvius parts)

Scenario 3. It has random stats and people constantly complain about every weapon they get that doesnt have top stats (Rail jack parts)

Scenario 4. It's rare, but after getting all weapons, it's considered a garbage drop again (Oberon parts, which drop less than Steel Essence) 

There is no practical way to shower a player in awesome loot all of the time in a game like Warframe. Value is in rarity. For some reason vocal players of WF have this allergy to RNG in any form, which is ridiculous considering the kind of game it is. 

[Felsagger]

12 hours ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Can't believe I actually have to explain this. The part where he alluded to wanting to just kill hordes, other game modes are a chore etc and anyone with a different opinion should be ignored. That just screeches entitlement at me.

Be careful, you are dealing with an individual who will argue you to death over the most trivial things. When you find yourself that you have to explain extremely elementary things that requires common sense and logic, that is the time you have to leave for obvious reasons. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ok. I'm imagining Grineer dropping a random Kuva weapon.

Scenario 1. It's rare and players complain about miniscule drop chance and being forced to farm, etc. (Steel essence)

Scenario 2. Its not rare and its considered a garbage drop after a while (Orvius parts)

Scenario 3. It has random stats and people constantly complain about every weapon they get that doesnt have top stats (Rail jack parts)

Scenario 4. It's rare, but after getting all weapons, it's considered a garbage drop again (Oberon parts, which drop less than Steel Essence) 

There is no practical way to shower a player in awesome loot all of the time in a game like Warframe. Value is in rarity. For some reason vocal players of WF have this allergy to RNG in any form, which is ridiculous considering the kind of game it is. 

Imagine if they played a game like Diablo 3 with the random rolls that had for gear and the cost to reroll it...