Why does everyone NOT want better rewards for Hard Mode.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

4 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Again, you're just reading what you want to read because I've made the point that I'm in it for both and those 2 aren't mutually exclusive. And I'm not going to sit here and respond to every childish sentence you write. My argument is that the "tic tac toe" missions in this game are more rewarding than SP. 

🥱👇

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

No they're not mutually exclusive, but you literally started your post, by saying that you are driven by the rewards.

That means that you would happily play tic-tac-toe repeatedly if you think you are going to get a good reward. Wouldn't you? 

So jumping on the bandwagon and pretending to actually want some over the top challenge is a bit of a waste of your time and effort. (And frankly, based on what you already posted, would be a lot less convincing than one might expect.) 

Whoo. Really worked up a sweat doing that. 🙄

6 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

I haven't "bowed out," there isn't much to bow out of this mode isnt exactly sweat inducing. I came back to this game specifically for steel path, got to the Neptune including the derelict and Kuva fortress, realized I had hit the peak of the challenge and there was #*!% all to work towards. So I dropped the game again and hoped DE would address the issue until I came to the forums and saw people were actually arguing against better rewards. 

Ahh so "tucked tail and ran" would have been a better turn of phrase? Good to know. 

 

8 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

But I'm sure you'll be happy when in 2 more weeks this mode is dead and everyone's back in the simulator.

Oh? Is that where you spend your time? Funny. Don't recall seeing that many rewards there. 🤷‍♂️

[kgabor]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You think that's a big deal. I am still freaked out by the fact that Konzu knows it's me no matter what Warframe I'm using. He still KNOWS it's me!

I don't care if Umbra gets a couple of lucky shots in. It's probably due to the modified bolt or something. But Konzu? Every. Single. Time. 

He's watching you in your sleep and when the time comes...it's

...Early lunch for Konzu!

[BernieBlack]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

🥱👇

Whoo. Really worked up a sweat doing that. 🙄

Ahh so "tucked tail and ran" would have been a better turn of phrase? Good to know. 

 

Oh? Is that where you spend your time? Funny. Don't recall seeing that many rewards there. 🤷‍♂️

Dude you are cringe.

[DeccanTraps]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

If the node were empty, I could buy that, but most of the time I can't even see him and as I step up he's figured out who I am. 

Others in the market do something similar but not to that extent. 

It's uncanny, I tell you. 

Every one can see the username and clan affiliation above your head like you do other tenno.

One of the precursors to the technocyte virus of the infested that became helmuth and in turn warframes was a benighn IFF virus that has by now infected all humanity (Including grineer) and Cephalons.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Just because a few people think garbage is good doesn't mean the garbage is good. It would be like if I argued that Mk-1 Braton is good and that I use it, meaning that it isn't garbage compared to everything else that comes after it. 😛

Good for you for wanting to use something else besides Naramon or Zenurik, but the fact of the matter is that those two far outshine the other 3 focus schools for having bonuses actually worth investing in. You can use them all you want, but just like us, what you say is also an opinion. An opinion that very few people share.

Actuaĺly for longer endurance content Vazarin outshines the other schools and Unairu also has niche uses like stripping armour from tricky targets.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, kgabor said:

He's watching you in your sleep and when the time comes...it's

...Early lunch for Konzu!

Not cool man. Have you ever paid attention to the hillbilly tribe he belongs to? Half of them walk around wearing fish as fashion accessories. Fish. There's apparently one dude trying to sell crystallized poop and pee as jewels. Another wants us to buy highly toxic mercury sulphide so we can display our love? Someone else wants us to literally drink wine that's made from people's souls. Another sells cerebral nutrients, the question is nutrients for cerebral, or from them? And there's a guy who spends all his time in a cave who clearly thinks that he's a modem. And he only lets small children come inside of the cave, no adults but him allowed. 

And for a group that appears to be really small and relatively isolated they sure do have a lot of kids. You wanna try to guess what the coefficient of inbreeding looks like for that population? 

So seriously, not cool. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

50 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

Every one can see the username and clan affiliation above your head like you do other tenno.

One of the precursors to the technocyte virus of the infested that became helmuth and in turn warframes was a benighn IFF virus that has by now infected all humanity (Including grineer) and Cephalons.

Yeah not buying it. All the others seem to just recognize us as Tenno. Not hard to do. Baro, couldn't care less, as long as you buy something unless you dress a particular way. Again he'd have to be blind not to be able to do that. The Solaris, yeah they know who we are, but with the amount of hardware sitting on their shoulders they probably have Doppler radar that can tell you the air speed velocity of any given unladen swallow in the hemisphere. 

But the Ostrons? They wear fish! 

[bronzebonobo]

23 hours ago, BernieBlack said:

Seriously, it's baffling. I've never seen a playerbase try to argue "Nooo don't reward our efforts. No engagement just grind."

Its reasonable to expect better rewards for harder difficulty, and in every mmolite/looter that's the case except in Warframe. There were several options DE could have taken to keep this game mode alive and appease fans. 

Exponential drops: instead of 300 endo reward 3000, instead of a 1000 credit cache reward 10000. 

Cosmetics and skins: they could have added a weapon skin or badge/sigil at the end of every planet, and no, those copy pasted emotes don't count. Statues are nice but it isn't something we can really show off. A simple armor piece or badge would have sufficed. And on each planet you could have put a unique skin hidden in the drop tables of the AABC rotations. Hell even if it's a gold color version of weapons we use that would have been more than enough.

Instead we got gender exclusive armor for operators, which I don't what the public sentiment is but I really don't care about operators. And we got ephemeral. And those rewards can't even be bought with the steel essence we earn from completing the star chart. 

The worst part is half the fan base it seems is arguing they don't want it to be any better. Who argues AGAINST getting better rewards?! I understand DEs "intentions," they only added this for vets wanting higher level enemies, but from the outside it looks like a harder challenge with crap rewards. Imagine coming into this fresh and seeing steel path for the first time, getting excited and finding out it only rewards skins and ephemeras with a currency that you won't even have enough of by completing said hard mode. 

This game is in some weird and perplexing bubble when a playerbase seems to think they shouldn't be rewarded for their efforts.

Must be new here or something idk, anyways, this is the hive mind, you try to point out something here, even if it is a logical and good question, you are immediately met with apologists blindly defending DE. 

DE to my knowledge, is the single company that makes a game, that releases a "hard mode" that doesn't give better rewards, instead they put one cosmetic set of armor and recycled rewards you can get from somewhere else but at a much better rate, they say it is "optional" but then they turn around and put MR behind the nodes, not an issue for me but for many other people they now have to slog through the star chart again I guess.

Baffles me honestly, this tennocon will hopefully be something very good.

But I honestly doubt it at this point. Hopefully you still enjoy tennocon none the less.

 

[JackHargreav]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I can say corners break the "otherwise smooth" game play as well. DE should just make long smooth hallways for us to slide through.

I can also say Ember is garbage, with no reason for forethought behind it as well. Probably isn't true now is it?

I use all schools for various situations. If you're not able, that just means you personally, think its garbage. It doesnt make it objectively garbage. Large difference.

I can say steak is garbage, but I'm sure I could find someone on this planet of 7 billion who disagree.

You're obviously welcome to your opinion lol.

The prime example of a strawman argument.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

27 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

The prime example of a strawman argument.

Yes, because saying something is trash is a completely cogent and well thought-out argument.

Let me go try that in the feedback section:

"Dear DE, Vazarin is trash. Please fix."

 

[JackHargreav]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Yes, because saying something is trash is a completely cogent and well thought-out argument.

Let me go try that in the feedback section:

"Dear DE, Vazarin is trash. Please fix."

 

That is nowhere close to what I said but whatever.

Some people are just not worth the attention. And yeah. You are absolutely not worth it non what so ever.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

You are absolutely wrong.

As I hate the operator but I still can Eidolon hunt. In fact that's I how got steel essence.

People mostly hate operators because it breaks the otherwise smooth gameplay. And focus schools are either really good or #*!%ing garbage.

I can't think of any school that doesn't have a good use in the game. There are trash skills in each one most certainly but each focus school has a good use in different areas of the game.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

26 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

That is nowhere close to what I said but whatever.

Some people are just not worth the attention. And yeah. You are absolutely not worth it non what so ever.

I'm pretty sure I was talking to Pizzarugi or whatever. Hes the one that said focus schools were trash besides a few. Doesnt matter either way. No focus school is trash in my opinion. 

[sitfesz]

14 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Yeah other than the leecher and power creep argument the others are actually valid.

Arbitrations were nerfed because "having one life too hard no good".

Many people suffers from fomo. So yeah they would feel forced to do it. I know because I do have this S#&$ to some extent.

Originally this mode was made because content creators spent too much time in the simulcrum and players had to stay in for an hour of survival to test if their weapon is really powerul. (In a real situation)

In most games hard mode is just there as an option. And that's it. People just enjoy playing on hard difficulty. I don't think there's anything surprising about that. That's why the Souls-like games exist.

IDK, because I solo arbitrations, just like every other mode where players could slightly slow me and #*!% leeches anyway.

I suffer from fomo as a completionist, but I didn't cry to remove stuff from modes I don't want to do.

Oh man, so players will spend even more time in simulacrum, because they have a mode to use their stuff from minute 1 and it will just be harder in 1 hour.

Souls-like games are still an option and I S#&$ you not, they don't give you rewards in warframe. ABSOLUTE WIN TO YOU as long as you look at it as warframe content.

[JackHargreav]

36 minutes ago, sitfesz said:

IDK, because I solo arbitrations, just like every other mode where players could slightly slow me and #*!% leeches anyway.

I suffer from fomo as a completionist, but I didn't cry to remove stuff from modes I don't want to do.

Oh man, so players will spend even more time in simulacrum, because they have a mode to use their stuff from minute 1 and it will just be harder in 1 hour.

Souls-like games are still an option and I S#&$ you not, they don't give you rewards in warframe. ABSOLUTE WIN TO YOU as long as you look at it as warframe content.

Yeah sure. I don't know what you just said but sure.

[SneakyErvin]

12 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Horizon Zero Dawn. 

God of War IV

Demon Souls

Blood Borne

Dark Souls 1, 2, 3

Sekiro

Who thinks this? Who? Name examples. 

 

The expected answers honestly. Which have been debunked time and time again over the years. Those arent challenging games, those are hard or difficult games. The challenge is very brief in them since it comes down to simple muscle memory. We arent actually challenged by those game, they are simply learning curves. Hence why they arent actually different from boss fights in WF or other games. In order for something to be challenging it needs to stay challenging after you learn the simple patterns.

You obviously since you called a bunch of hard or difficult games challenging. Do you really feel challenged when you play those games? I've played alot of hard games but I've never felt challenged by them, be it intricate raids or single player encounters. I've only ever felt challenged in PvP or in hybrid PvEvP setting.

12 hours ago, markus230 said:

Not long ago I've played Doom Eternal on Nightmare, it's very challenging, especially the optional arenas, it's hard because you have to take care of many resources at once (armor, health, ammo), you need to disable enemy weak spots which requires good aim, you need to dodge attacks and use right weapons in the right situations.

Sure, you can master every game, but that doesn't mean the game is easy. Doom in this example requires you to become more skilled at the game, other games might require you to develop better tactics and so on.

Warframe is easy because there is almost no skill required (best weapons in the game don't require you to aim at all, using skill requiring weapons, like sniper rifles most of the time is sub par) and there is little to learn. Sure, if you want to do a 4 hour solo run of SP Mot, you need to know what you're doing, but you can slap a sub par mods on a sub par weapon and you will still be able to beat most of the game's content without issues. Most of the game doesn't require you to be good at anything, that's why Warframe isn't challenging.

SP is only hard if you gimp yourself. You can cheese pretty much everything. Defense missions are laughable with Irradiating Loki, and Interception missions can be played afk, just use Limbo and plop down a cataclysm on the tower that the AI is fixated on, refresh cataclysm once a minute and you won.

That would be hard or difficult, not challenging. A challenging game would need to take it to the next level where you actually feel it, which in reality only PvP can do since you never know how the enemy will act. PvE just ends up as scripted in the end. It can be easier or harder but never actually on a level that challenges you.

WF has a chance to be difficulty or hard, Steel Path has improved on it, however it didnt turn into more interesting gameplay, just more mobs attack you at once.

 

[BernieBlack]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The expected answers honestly. Which have been debunked time and time again over the years. Those arent challenging games, those are hard or difficult games. The challenge is very brief in them since it comes down to simple muscle memory. We arent actually challenged by those game, they are simply learning curves. Hence why they arent actually different from boss fights in WF or other games. In order for something to be challenging it needs to stay challenging after you learn the simple patterns.

You obviously since you called a bunch of hard or difficult games challenging. Do you really feel challenged when you play those games? I've played alot of hard games but I've never felt challenged by them, be it intricate raids or single player encounters. I've only ever felt challenged in PvP or in hybrid PvEvP setting.

That would be hard or difficult, not challenging. A challenging game would need to take it to the next level where you actually feel it, which in reality only PvP can do since you never know how the enemy will act. PvE just ends up as scripted in the end. It can be easier or harder but never actually on a level that challenges you.

WF has a chance to be difficulty or hard, Steel Path has improved on it, however it didnt turn into more interesting gameplay, just more mobs attack you at once.

 

Wtf are you smoking?

[Lutesque]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The expected answers honestly. Which have been debunked time and time again over the years. Those arent challenging games, those are hard or difficult games. The challenge is very brief in them since it comes down to simple muscle memory. We arent actually challenged by those game, they are simply learning curves. Hence why they arent actually different from boss fights in WF or other games. In order for something to be challenging it needs to stay challenging after you learn the simple patterns

You cant be seriously Comparing Warframe Bosses to Bosses in those Games.

I mean I dont like any of the Souls-em-up Games... but even they do Bosses better than Warframe does.

8 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You obviously since you called a bunch of hard or difficult games challenging. Do you really feel challenged when you play those games?

Only Sekiro.... 

I havent played HZD and the Souls games are merely passing off cheap Deaths as Difficulty. 😛

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That would be hard or difficult, not challenging. A challenging game would need to take it to the next level where you actually feel it, which in reality only PvP can do since you never know how the enemy will act. PvE just ends up as scripted in the end. It can be easier or harder but never actually on a level that challenges you.

You have a weird Definition of the word "Challenging".

9 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Wtf are you smoking?

Whatever it is... I WANT SOME 😛

 

[DeccanTraps]

10 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Yeah not buying it. All the others seem to just recognize us as Tenno. Not hard to do. Baro, couldn't care less, as long as you buy something unless you dress a particular way. Again he'd have to be blind not to be able to do that. The Solaris, yeah they know who we are, but with the amount of hardware sitting on their shoulders they probably have Doppler radar that can tell you the air speed velocity of any given unladen swallow in the hemisphere. 

But the Ostrons? They wear fish! 

Well the more boring answer is, faced with unkillable iron skinned void gods and caught with eidolons ghouls and an elite grinner army on his door step he simply greets any one not presently shooting at him with the 'Sura! You're my favourite tenno' routine.

I'm bad at faces so all through high school I just called all teaching staff 'Sir/Miss' based on apparent gender and got a reputation for exacting courtesy. Truth was I couldn't have picked any of them out of a police line up. What's to say he's not pulling the same trick?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

7 minutes ago, DeccanTraps said:

Well the more boring answer is, faced with unkillable iron skinned void gods and caught with eidolons ghouls and an elite grinner army on his door step he simply greets any one not presently shooting at him with the 'Sura! You're my favourite tenno' routine.

I'm bad at faces so all through high school I just called all teaching staff 'Sir/Miss' based on apparent gender and got a reputation for exacting courtesy. Truth was I couldn't have picked any of them out of a police line up. What's to say he's not pulling the same trick?

That's the thing, everyone else does that, Maroo, Darvo, Baro, enemy bosses,... Not sure about Clem, because, well, Clem. Konzu/his faction, doesn't. His responses change based on our standing among the Ostrons. That signals that we are recognized. 

Our frames obviously change, we may even shed them, so it's probably not like they can tell because we pick up the smell of their fish on our gear. 

This is something that legitimately had me scratching my head in the past. The whole lot of them are just plain uncanny. 

[Kaotyke]

13 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You think that's a big deal. I am still freaked out by the fact that Konzu knows it's me no matter what Warframe I'm using. He still KNOWS it's me!

I don't care if Umbra gets a couple of lucky shots in. It's probably due to the modified bolt or something. But Konzu? Every. Single. Time. 

I'm telling you, those names above your head are there in-universe. Its how everytone knows who is who, like a ID-card on your suit, but above your head.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

 Which have been debunked time and time again over the years.

In your fantastic world, obviously. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Those arent challenging games, those are hard or difficult games.

Don't try to be smart, you have to work harder for that. 

Everything has a learning curve that once familiarized the player progresses with certain techniques. A good example are the musical instruments. The requires the acquisition of a new language, memory psycho motor coordination and comprehension of techniques. 

Everything poses a challenge that decrease with time due to the acquisition of those three principles, new language of patterns, psycho motor coordination and the comprehension of a technique. Challenge is the amount time required to comprehend a technique throughout stimulation of difficulty, difficulty is the level of complexity and rigor that such technique requires. 

Horizon Zero Dawn offers challenge, difficulty and degrees of hard mode. 

Doom Eternal offers challenge, difficulty and degrees of hard mode. 

Blood Born offers extrinsic difficulty while the challenge is the motivate of the story. 

You have to remember that such games are developed in exhaustive detail,. The meta cognition of game design happens in all of these games. People who assembles these games are not only ENTP s. These individuals who put together games are experts in the field that consult professionals and educators assessment. Many are researchers in different fields. The video game industry is not a wherewithal of nerds and geeks plunging code in a PC. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The challenge is very brief in them since it comes down to simple muscle memory. We arent actually challenged by those game, they are simply learning curves. Hence why they arent actually different from boss fights in WF or other games. In order for something to be challenging it needs to stay challenging after you learn the simple patterns.

I'm going to be rude and blunt. 

War Frame treats the player like an incapacitated and impaired individual. People often belief that War Frame is an asylum for disabled players. It's not ableism. It's how the game is designed around a greater number of people with the intention to coin the term "no child left behind" that really traduces to 'no client's wallet left behind'. The learning curve of War frame are stratification of four systems: the modifier cards, the tool set of abilities in each war frame, skill tree tenno use, weapon/platforming time reaction game pay. After that the rest are follow up brain dead formulas and spasmodic muscle button smacking contractions. 

Difficulty never arrives to War Frame because there are no patterns to learn and mistakes to punish. In chess every move gives rewards or punishment. In games like Blood Borne, moves gives rewards or punishments. A wrong one provides non favorable results despite if the player is a top speed runner or a dexterous performer. The stress of failure will be there however in War Frame the player is treated like blind cattle. Levels are restricted with teleport gates everywhere when a War Frame falls. There are invisible walls or boundary walls that impede the War Frame maneuver the stage.

 In Dark Souls once the player masters the basics the game still remains challenging because you can have your own campaign game with players controlled by humans or lost souls in that lore. The level of challenge, hard and difficulty is all written over the game Dark Souls 3. You can have it easy but if you are ambitious enough you can have it way hard with a boss fight, humans against you and common enemies at the same time giving a term called unpredictability of outcome. War Frame has none of that because this placebo insomnia pill only caters sophomore players. 

 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

You obviously since you called a bunch of hard or difficult games challenging. Do you really feel challenged when you play those games? I've played alot of hard games but I've never felt challenged by them, be it intricate raids or single player encounters. I've only ever felt challenged in PvP or in hybrid PvEvP setting.

Yes. The challenge is the continuation of consistency. These games have an intensity that never drops down unless you disengage the challenge. In chess you can't never relax. In these games you can't never relax. PvP is a consistent tests of wits and speed. Challenge there is always perpetual unless you turn off the game or simply stop playing it. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

That would be hard or difficult, not challenging. A challenging game would need to take it to the next level where you actually feel it, which in reality only PvP can do since you never know how the enemy will act. PvE just ends up as scripted in the end. It can be easier or harder but never actually on a level that challenges you.

Example. Doom Eternal. 

Doom Eternal provides the single player game to teach the style. 

Doom Eternal provides the Slayer hunt with a tier of daemons that needs to cooperate taking the slayer down. 

Doom Eternal will provide a horde mode where other players will be on these hordes against a team of slayers. 

That's a progression in difficulty. 

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

WF has a chance to be difficulty or hard, Steel Path has improved on it, however it didnt turn into more interesting gameplay, just more mobs attack you at once.

 

Steel path is a pathetic corpus joke sold by 1/3 of a credit. 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 hour ago, Kaotyke said:

I'm telling you, those names above your head are there in-universe. Its how everytone knows who is who, like a ID-card on your suit, but above your head.

Okay, how do you explain the fish? 

[Prexades]

Should I start a new thread: Why does everyone make threads about hard mode?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

3 minutes ago, Prexades said:

Should I start a new thread: Why does everyone make threads about hard mode?

Manily to try and show how edgy they can be (not very); to give pretty pathetic excuses for why they're avoiding the content, while pretending that they aren't really just demanding more rewards for something they're saying is not particularly challenging; and to whine about how hard the hard mode is.

At least that's what the main reasons looks like so far.