I personally think Warframe has a boss problem.

[GAleX-2712]

I want to publish this to get some opinions from other people because I wanna hear what they think;

I think Warframe has a problem with bosses - They do have some fantastic designs but their bosses feel slow-paced which defies the pacing of the game, barely pull any punches or tricks and some of them can be overwhelming in the process. Be informed that I'm not trying to harass DE or anything but this is what I think about the bosses each by each.

Vor - Not too many problems with this guy, he's a nice welcoming to new players. 

Vay Hek - This is probably one of the few bosses that somewhat pulls a punch but Vay Hek can be really annoying when attempting to shoot him in his normal form. My recommendation for this is to make a way to somehow stun him and make the player need to beat him down quickly with melee before getting back up again, this will make it more paced and more consequential when he enters his second phase. This is what I mean by pulling a punch, a mecha bird that is an upgrade to him? Heck yes. It is more fast-paced in this second-phase. 

Jackal - The rework on him is fantastic, it gives more high risks to new players and it is easily readable. 

Lech Kril - I kinda feel bad for this guy.. he is easily killable and there's barely other grineers to give high stakes when fighting him. But It does feel fun just beating his back, almost feels like a hack and slash when fighting this guy. 

The Sergeant - What can I say about this guy that hasn't already been said? 

Alad V/Mutalist Alad V  - Meh. Not too bad but also not very good. It's just a solid in-the-middle to kill this guy. His Mutalist form is what alerts me more though because this guy can move somewhat fast for me when I was trying to shoot him when he took off his collar. This is something with more high stakes but.. like I said with Vay Hek I do think there should be a stun for this boss to beat him down quickly. 

Ropalolyst - Easily overwhelming process. His boss fight is way too flashy and he moves really quick which makes it hard for people to use their operators to laser him. And overall its just boring to fight him, I think the real boss fight is fighting the enemies that side with him because you don't even really pay attention to them when fighting the huge piece of reddened KFC. 

Raptors - Once again an in-the-middle for me. Its easy to shoot it, put the bomb in the operations, repeat. Imagine if those Raptors were in a fusion or whatnot.. that would probably be more exciting. 

Sargas Ruk - Imagine Lech Kril.. except you have to use guns. Like seriously this guy has some high stakes of you either getting ganged up by the minor enemies or getting crisped. But this boss is pretty threatening with his phases more than any other boss, which can make him recognizable for how dangerous he is. 

Tyl Regor - You seriously need a tame of timing with strong hits with this guy, and be really careful to not get stunned by him because otherwise you would be looped with teleportation and would most likely get a headache blueprint as the reward. I do think this guy gets better at his second phase where he introduces more enemies into the fight, it puts more theme into this fight of how scientifically-psychopathic the guy is as a character. 

Hyena Pack - Absolutely weak. You are most likely going to kill these guys all at once because they barely do anything, I think the most common Hyena I would've seen was yellow. For something called Hyena Pack, these guys don't act that terrifying when fighting them. Here's what I wanted to imagine for this fight - Since you get Loki for this fight, I think this fight should be a bit based on finding these guys separately. Light Blue should be cryonetic based and represent Loki's decoy, giving way to the other Hyenas to attack the player. Green should be somewhat triggered and will dash to the player quickly, being in place for a duration of time that the player can attack him. Dark Blue should team up with Light Blue, making it dangerous for the player touching a decoy to Light Blue - otherwise having the risk of a magnetic/electric status from it. Finally, yellow should be the most "tankiest" out of all, you will need strong hits against him. Yellow would have a representative of most Corpus' weapons, with his primary being a fire cannon. 

Ambulas - I don't think it's necessary to lock this fight with points of hacking other Ambulas points. In my opinion, I think this boss would be too readable when giving him spawn points before the fight itself on Hades. Here's what I would think about this boss - This boss would be a Part 2 to the Sergeant boss, serving as a mecha to him. The mecha itself would have sided cannons that will shoot electricity if in contact with the player, the fight would require stealth for most of the time until you anger the Sergeant, calling in spare Corpus Crewmen to kill for you to bait him back into fighting you once more. This would unlock a new phase where he gets an electric mace, he will make patterns that will quick-alert the players where the mecha would spin bashing the ground with the hammer. You will have to wait until you are not seen by the Sergeant, then take your chance to beat him down multiple times.On the last time, you are given his mace and you will smash the mecha multiple times at once, smashing the ground that the mecha walks on, destroying the mecha and killing the Sergeant for good. 

Jordas Golem - Another boss I feel bad for the same amount as Lech Kril, you just have to shoot him constantly in the back. My vision for this fight is to keep the normal design of it being Archwing - But this time the Jordas Golem would have attacks that shoot lasers instead of fire-waves, you are then given the chance of striking down the yellow core at the front. In doing so will spawn hives inside of the Jordas Golem, fighting waves of infested. And then seeing an alternative form of the Jordas Golem as a centipede-like infested. You will require absolute speed for this fight, it would summon walls that will stun you if in-contact, grab you by its jaws forcing you to beat its face until released.  You will have to slow motion shoot the opening mouth of him wall to wall dodging until it cracks yellow surfaces, making it required to beat the cracks. Therefore ending the fight. 

Kela De Thaym - This boss feels less eventful regardless of the croud cheering - Kela has overwhelming speed and this is another boss that requires points for getting in. The location of this fight gives a vibe of Mistral from Metal Gear Rising in so this gives me the thought of what Kela's fight would've been.  Kela would not be using her rollers and instead a Grineer spear with two explosive ends called "Fracture", the player will have to catch up to Kela quickly and stun her down repeatedly when she is spinning her spear, similarly to the Specter fights in the Junctions. Kela then will be in the center, ordering cannons instead of orbital strikes, you will have to make the cannons aim at Kela while she is in a personal room viewing, this will make her throw in a Grineer to fight you(To give more feel of her losing her respect) Similarly to Ambulas, you are given a weapon after beating the Grineer, this being an acid cannon that you will shoot at Kela, completely burning away half of her face. This will make her angered and enter her second phase, she will instead use a sword attacking with heavy hits similarly to Lech Kril, where the player will have to beat her leg after dodging to stun her. The player will then have to press X to do a quick beating on Kela. This will initiate the moment Kela loses her repsect, ordering more cannons, returning up. But no! She comes back in with a cannon of her own hooked onto the roof. The player will have to remove all cannons in front of her individually, but this time they drop batteries to charge each other(4 in total) Finally after charging them, you will have to be urgent to shoot Kela because otherwise she will shoot a heated laser. A total of 3 shots at her are required. After doing so, Kela is off of her cannon where the player must press X once more, performing an execution on Kela as she screams her last breaths playing similarly to the original with the crowd cheering.

Tell me what you guys think. 

[Lutesque]

6 minutes ago, GAleX-2712 said:

Vor - Not too many problems with this guy, he's a nice welcoming to new players. 

You have to say what these problems are....

Granted we already know what they are but it needs to be stated on the official record.

9 minutes ago, GAleX-2712 said:

Tell me what you guys think. 

Heres every single Boss in Warframe:

1) Lots Of Ads.

2) Lots of Invulnerabilty Phases 

 

[GAleX-2712]

4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

You have to say what these problems are....

Granted we already know what they are but it needs to be stated on the official record.

Heres every single Boss in Warframe:

1) Lots Of Ads.

2) Lots of Invulnerabilty Phases 

 

Sorry that I didn't mention anything about Vor. But here's what my problems about him are personally.

There's no real remembering about what Vor's abilities can pose as a threat, he goes unmarked throughout and really.. there's no impact about him if you get what I mean. 

 

And mind if I ask, what do you mean by ads of the bosses? 

[akrid45]

26 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

You have to say what these problems are....

Granted we already know what they are but it needs to be stated on the official record.

Heres every single Boss in Warframe:

1) Lots Of Ads.

2) Lots of Invulnerabilty Phases 

 

That's what happens when you can just 1 hit everything 

[GAleX-2712]

1 minute ago, akrid45 said:

That's what happens when you can just 1 hit everything 

I mean, you got a point for what DE wanted to do.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I think you need to experiment with different methods of killing each boss. Your chief con shall we say, seems to revolve around bosses moving too quickly. SLOW THEM DOWN.

[GAleX-2712]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

I think you need to experiment with different methods of killing each boss. Your chief con shall we say, seems to revolve around bosses moving too quickly. SLOW THEM DOWN.

You have a fair point.  I most likely do need to think of mid-processings. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, GAleX-2712 said:

You have a fair point. 

Like I'll give 1 example. Tyl Regor, yeh he's fast. But try this next time. Put down a snow globe with Frost and wait for him to step inside it to hit you. He'll teleport in and then attack you in slow motion while you take him apart. And the same goes for his summoned manics.

[GAleX-2712]

4 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Like I'll give 1 example. Tyl Regor, yeh he's fast. But try this next time. Put down a snow globe with Frost and wait for him to step inside it to hit you. He'll teleport in and then attack you in slow motion while you take him apart.

I mean, Tyl does feel like one of those fights that could be cinematic if you get what I mean from how his phase structures and builds up. What makes me think about the bosses being paced is to make it feel more exciting. 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, GAleX-2712 said:

I mean, Tyl does feel like one of those fights that could be cinematic if you get what I mean from how his phase structures and builds up. 

True. Honestly though, if you have access to Temporal blast from focus schools or just use any slowing ability he gets dropped in seconds. Then there's Sargus Ruk who I enjoy toying with. Favourite method is to use limbo to put him in a separate realm to all his minions. Once he's isolated you'd be amazed how easy he is to kill. Can also use stasis on his mobs. Alad V you can remove Zanuka's shields so you can 1 shot him. Same goes for Mutalist Alad V, you can 1 shot him. the list goes on. Oh and the only reason Ambulas costs those silly tokens is because the rework was tied to an event. And let me tell you that ambulas before the rework... Maaan I remember finally getting to the end of Pluto years ago when it was the last planet to beat and I killed a moa in a room I came to and Lotus goes "nice work taking down the ViP". WTF that's it? So a welcome rework.

[taiiat]

sure, Bosses tend to look cool but the actual Gameplay in them more often than not is waiting rather than doing something.

[GAleX-2712]

2 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

True. Honestly though, if you have access to Temporal blast from focus schools or just use any slowing ability he gets dropped in seconds. Then there's Sargus Ruk who I enjoy toying with. Favourite method is to use limbo to put him in a separate realm to all his minions. Once he's isolated you'd be amazed how easy he is to kill. Can also use stasis on his mobs. Alad V you can remove Zanuka's shields so you can 1 shot him. Same goes for Mutalist Alad V, you can 1 shot him. the list goes on. Oh and the only reason Ambulas costs those silly tokens is because the rework was tied to an event. And let me tell you that ambulas before the rework... Maaan I remember finally getting to the end of Pluto years ago when it was the last planet to beat and I killed a moa in a room I came to and Lotus goes "nice work taking down the ViP". WTF that's it? So a welcome rework.

Well said. 

[GAleX-2712]

1 minute ago, taiiat said:

sure, Bosses tend to look cool but the actual Gameplay in them more often than not is waiting rather than doing something.

What do you mean by this? 

[Kaggelos]

IMO, Warframe's greatest Boss fight is the Exploiter Orb. Not o much because of the mechanics, but because of the narrative gravitas (Solaris, Deck 12, Rude Zud etc), and also because of those sick ass mini cutscenes in which you beat the feces out of it. Oh, and also the voice acting of the Exploiter Orb. Seriously, the voice actress did an amazing job.
oh, and Kuva Liches. I love those. Their warframe abilities, the grab mechanic, the parazon finishers, etc make them, mechanically the most interesting bosses/mini bosses in game. Not to say that there's no room for improvement. More on that later.

Apart from that, most boss fights are really not that interesting (for me at least).

Artificial invulnerability phases, for example, could be turned into just extremely tanky phases, with 99.9% dmg reduction, to at least keep our willing suspension of disbelief, narratively wise.

Bosses don't employ actual melee mechanics, dodge animations, those that need to at least (raptors dont need any for example,  since they just float). The Jackal, in all it's reworked glory, is still kinda meh. Just button mash his legs, run left or right to evade the red wall lasers, and thats it. What am I supposed to FEEL doing that? Only the cutscenes are amazing. Make it use actual fighting techniques, that with skill we can overcome.

My point is, I want a boss fight (or any fight for that matter) to make me FEEL something. Dread? Awesomeness? "Oh S#&$"?"Take that"? a resounding "YES I DID IT"?

 

[taiiat]

3 minutes ago, GAleX-2712 said:

What do you mean by this? 

... exactly what i said? what you actually do in a Boss Mission more often than not is stand around and wait for Timer(s).

[GAleX-2712]

1 minute ago, Kaggelos said:

IMO, Warframe's greatest Boss fight is the Exploiter Orb. Not o much because of the mechanics, but because of the narrative gravitas (Solaris, Deck 12, Rude Zud etc), and also because of those sick ass mini cutscenes in which you beat the feces out of it. Oh, and also the voice acting of the Exploiter Orb. Seriously, the voice actress did an amazing job.
oh, and Kuva Liches. I love those. Their warframe abilities, the grab mechanic, the parazon finishers, etc make them, mechanically the most interesting bosses/mini bosses in game. Not to say that there's no room for improvement. More on that later.

Apart from that, most boss fights are really not that interesting (for me at least).

Artificial invulnerability phases, for example, could be turned into just extremely tanky phases, with 99.9% dmg reduction, to at least keep our willing suspension of disbelief, narratively wise.

Bosses don't employ actual melee mechanics, dodge animations, those that need to at least (raptors dont need any for example,  since they just float). The Jackal, in all it's reworked glory, is still kinda meh. Just button mash his legs, run left or right to evade the red wall lasers, and thats it. What am I supposed to FEEL doing that? Only the cutscenes are amazing. Make it use actual fighting techniques, that with skill we can overcome.

My point is, I want a boss fight (or any fight for that matter) to make me FEEL something. Dread? Awesomeness? "Oh S#&$"?"Take that"? a resounding "YES I DID IT"?

 

Yes! Feeling something from a boss is an attribute that can make it worth something. 

[GAleX-2712]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

... exactly what i said? what you actually do in a Boss Mission more often than not is stand around and wait for Timer(s).

Huh, I never really seen it that way. 

[Aadi880]

You forgot Phoroid.
Then again, we all do... 

[GAleX-2712]

5 minutes ago, Aadi880 said:

You forgot Phoroid.
Then again, we all do... 

I didn't mention Phorid because tbh - I think all of us can't really see how much of a problem Phorid is, he's just a big red charger. DE *tries* to make him threatening but it just really falls flat. 

[Felsagger]

Warframe has a boss problem.

Say it LOUDER!!!

 

War Frame bosses are a joke. Periods of invulnerability and Ads These creatures are simply dumb, dull and uninspiring. 

 

I'll say it again. DE has a lot of interior designers and 3d modelers but lacks of GAME DEVELOPERS. 

Game developers designs bosses and new game play mechanics around bosses. 

[GAleX-2712]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Warframe has a boss problem.

Say it LOUDER!!!

 

War Frame bosses are a joke. Periods of invulnerability and Ads These creatures are simply dumb, dull and uninspiring. 

 

I'll say it again. DE has a lot of interior designers and 3d modelers but lacks of GAME DEVELOPERS. 

Game developers designs bosses and new game play mechanics around bosses. 

I think what can make a boss challenging is that it can trial the attributes of the player or in the boss mission's case, can reflect the attributes of the frames you get from them. For the bosses of Warframe.. there's barely any challenge to one attribute - It doesn't give anything like for say, you are forced without something important and need to prove your strength without that various thing important. 

[Dauggie]

they are bosses you can easily farm for parts, doesn't have to be time consuming, when its an actual fight with different phases players still complain. there is no win win situation. people even complained in recent protea quest which was really good imo, but some players have hard time dealing with charging the glave and timing the attack. in short, you can say all the various things about improving the fight but remember the players are actually here for casual gaming, 

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, GAleX-2712 said:

I think what can make a boss challenging is that it can trial the attributes of the player or in the boss mission's case, can reflect the attributes of the frames you get from them. 

 

Can be simple as this. Bosses can one shot players with certain attacks that are devastating. The boss have weapons that can teach insolent tennos some manners. 

[Aadi880]

il y a 2 minutes, Felsagger a dit :

Can be simple as this. Bosses can one shot players with certain attacks that are devastating. The boss have weapons that can teach insolent tennos some manners. 

REEE ThIs iS LaZy DeSigN REEE

-Some inaros player probably

[GAleX-2712]

4 minutes ago, Dauggie said:

they are bosses you can easily farm for parts, doesn't have to be time consuming, when its an actual fight with different phases players still complain. there is no win win situation. people even complained in recent protea quest which was really good imo, but some players have hard time dealing with charging the glave and timing the attack. in short, you can say all the various things about improving the fight but remember the players are actually here for casual gaming, 

Fair point you have here good sir. I admit I had a hard time with that Protea quest, when trying to manage the final part the first time but that didn't change how I saw the quest as great-if not a level raising of the Corpus' plotline.