It's not about difficulty. Warframe doesn't have a flagship content..

[AperoBeltaTwo]

my quote from another topic:

"Also, difficulty is overrated. I think people invoke difficulty in Warframe when they don't really know what they want and just feel like they have to say something. Nobody really cares about the game being difficult. What people really want, I think, is for the game to validate the hundreds and thousands of hours of grind people spent on collecting all this gear that in reality has no purpose for the most part. People want to actually play the game now, with all the gear and knowledge they've gathered over the time of their playthrough; that would also be worth future time investment. Today you're building your account for nothing. This looter shooter provides no reason to collect all this loot. Warframe doesn't have a flagship content."

[Zahnny]

At least for me, it's that I want to feel like I'm progressing. I'm not asking for power creep. I'm asking to feel like I'm climbing this proverbial tower. Unfortunately, the only thing that seems to fill that in Warframe while playing the long game is the Mastery Rank, and I think it might be why so many people were vocal on Steel Path, mastery was tied behind it and players saw Mastery as the most all-encompassing form of progression. So while it was 'optional' as players say, those who want every drop of Mastery see it as mandatory, not optional.

I also play for lore, but we typically have to wait long stretches of time for lore, and it's debatable if that lore we're given is meaningful or something new to disect. (Deadlock was pretty good for the record) I want to explore the Corrupted and the Infested. I want to learn more about the Towers that reside within the Void. I want to see who or what this Unum is and what's inside the Cetus tower. I want to see Tyl Regor again, give him a fleet and see what he can do that this 'Legless Parrot' could not. I want to feel like there is something at stake in this system where my involvement has meaning, instead of the events we have now where our participation is meaningless and it'll progress without our involvement. The Relays, Fomorian and Razorback attacks are just meaningless Orokin Catalyst fodder.

When it comes to lore, everything feels like it's played too safe, it's either Corpus, Grineer or Sentient, and when it's not, the lore we get doesn't change anything, such as everytime we encounter an Infested update, we only learn about an individual, not the Infested as a whole. I hope Deimos will be different.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

16 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

my quote from another topic:

"Also, difficulty is overrated. I think people invoke difficulty in Warframe when they don't really know what they want and just feel like they have to say something. Nobody really cares about the game being difficult. What people really want, I think, is for the game to validate the hundreds and thousands of hours of grind people spent on collecting all this gear that in reality has no purpose for the most part. People want to actually play the game now, with all the gear and knowledge they've gathered over the time of their playthrough; that would also be worth future time investment. Today you're building your account for nothing. This looter shooter provides no reason to collect all this loot. Warframe doesn't have a flagship content."

I would expect and wish that people want to play because it's fun. If that isn't the case, then why are you still here? Why do you need some enemies that take more hits before they die and less hits before you die, just to prove something to somebody? What validation do you need from a game?

[Marvelous_A]

Let's just say we have more power than we required to clear every content in this game.

[CoefficientOfCool]

 

Personally, I think there are a lot more people wanting a new storyline quest than they anticipated but who knows, I'm here for the memes.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

For anyone that is wondering what flagship means like I was lol:

"the best or most important thing owned or produced by a particular organization."

 

[lukasystem]

hace 26 minutos, CoefficientOfCool dijo:

 

Personally, I think there are a lot more people wanting a new storyline quest than they anticipated but who knows, I'm here for the memes.

It's the only thing i want from every patch, that's why i loved Deadlock Protocol, but it's like i need another quest on top of another, until i'm done and wait for the next month. Same with Nightwave but that is a different approach.

Same reason i'm on the edge of my sit for Duviri Paradox and New War. 

 

 

 

[Aldain]

I'd say it more is that there's no central content that connects all the islands together...something that DE wanted/still wants Railjack to at some point be.

That's one of the problems in Warframe, nothing is very well connected, as a result things often need to be individual dead-end slogs that stop progression in all other content.

Of course then there's the other problem of some content not being desirable to connect to (I for one HATE Toroids and Systems in Fortuna Heists due to RNG for example).

Factor in the utterly nuts power gaps that exist and having unified content is a pipe dream because it would be impossible to balance around the top-end power curves without making the bottom-lower middle segments of the power curve useless.

[OniDax]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

I would expect and wish that people want to play because it's fun. If that isn't the case, then why are you still here? Why do you need some enemies that take more hits before they die and less hits before you die, just to prove something to somebody? What validation do you need from a game?

Because they obviously like something else that Warframe has to offer, whether that's the lore, the Warframes, the aesthetic, the music, etc. I'm the same way. I like some of those things about Warframe, but I think the core gameplay is lackluster and needs improvement. I don't think the answer is giving enemies higher health and higher damage, but I think the game needs improvement. It has potential, but DE isn't reaching its potential. People stay, despite being unsatisfied, because they hope it will get better in the ways they think it needs to get better. So instead of just walking away from the game, they voice their opinions about how DE can make it better.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

I would expect and wish that people want to play because it's fun. If that isn't the case, then why are you still here? Why do you need some enemies that take more hits before they die and less hits before you die, just to prove something to somebody? What validation do you need from a game?

This dead horse argument again. Ask yourself, what is this "fun" you're talking about, and how do you design for it? What makes a game "fun" to begin with? 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

I'd say it more is that there's no central content that connects all the islands together...something that DE wanted/still wants Railjack to at some point be.

That's one of the problems in Warframe, nothing is very well connected, as a result things often need to be individual dead-end slogs that stop progression in all other content.

Of course then there's the other problem of some content not being desirable to connect to (I for one HATE Toroids and Systems in Fortuna Heists due to RNG for example).

Factor in the utterly nuts power gaps that exist and having unified content is a pipe dream because it would be impossible to balance around the top-end power curves without making the bottom-lower middle segments of the power curve useless.

Except railjack turned out to be another content island that's essentially just an Archwing 2.0. To connect Warframe islands through railjack you'd have to rebuild the whole game. And I'm not sure that would be worth the effort. Maybe if orbiter was designed with railjack features in mind from the very beginning...

EDIT: Central content = Flagship content. It's pretty much the same point I was making.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

 

Personally, I think there are a lot more people wanting a new storyline quest than they anticipated but who knows, I'm here for the memes

Same reason i'm on the edge of my sit for Duviri Paradox and New War.

Nobody really cares about the quests. DE work on those quests for years, then people play through all of them in a couple of hours, not counting the timegating. And never revisit them again, cause replayability value is zero. They're not even that good on the first playthrough.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, Marvelous_A said:

Let's just say we have more power than we required to clear every content in this game.

Flagship content is supposed to be designed for that power. Not to be difficult for difficulty's sake, but to be engaging; and to utilize and flesh out the gear and mechanics that exist in the game.

[OniDax]

32 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Nobody really cares about the quests. DE work on those quests for years, then people play through all of them in a couple of hours, not counting the timegating. And never revisit them again, cause replayability value is zero. They're not even that good on the first playthrough.

And in the case of all of their cinematic quests, it's been one inconsistent retcon after another:

Spoiler

 

The Second Dream: For some reason, Stalker, who is supposed to be deeply loyal to the Orokin to the point that he's hunting the Tenno for assassinating them, is now an ally of the Sentients with no explanation whatsoever. Teshin, who is supposed to have returned from exile for the express purpose of preparing the Tenno for the Sentients, is nowhere to be seen.

The War Within: Teshin, who is supposed to be all concerned about the Sentients, shows up in a quest connected with the Grineer. I get his loyalty to the Orokin, but you'd think they wouldn't have Teshin talking to the Tenno and training them through a stupid sport (Lunaro) to prepare them for the Sentients. It's almost like another person loyal to the Orokin, and who punishes us for killing Grineer and Corpus bosses, should be the one working for the Queens...

The Sacrifice/Apostasy: Ballas and Umbra appear out of nowhere. Where has Ballas been for millennia? Why is he just now going after Umbra? Where has Umbra been for millennia? Why is he just now randomly on Earth? Now, all of a sudden, the Orokin are blue (making Hunhow completely colorblind and stupid when calling Alad V "Orokin"). Oh, all of sudden, an actual Orokin is back and neither Teshin nor Stalker, the two characters who were written as being pro-Orokin, are anywhere to be seen. All of a sudden, an Orokin is back, and yet the Tenno aren't even the least bit shocked by Ballas's return. Oh, the Lotus is Natah and not Margulis trapped within Lotus (as Apostasy suggests).

Chimera Prologue: Wait, wasn't Natah going back to her mother at the end of The Sacrifice? Doesn't her mother call to her in some trailer DE showed off at Tennocon? Now, the Lotus deceived Ballas and is calling the shots, the clear mastermind behind the upcoming New War. Also, I guess Hunhow really did die in Octavia's Anthem.

Erra Prologue: Wait, I thought Lotus was the mastermind? Even Jovian Concord has Lotus leading the Sentients. Now, Natah's brother-we-never-heard-about, Erra, is the one running the show, and Natah is a amnesiac sheep of a character who is just being manipulated by her brother? Now Natah needs help recognizing who and what Ballas is? And now the mother is just randomly gone?

 

Such great examples of the best storytelling in gaming! And let's not talk about all the bugs and glitches. I can't see how most players want more stories from DE. But I guess players who have never actually played narrative-driven games can't distinguish good storytelling from bad storytelling, nor when the storytelling is so inconsistent that each new quest retcons the last, like Deadlock Protocol, which forgets that the Board already has a chairman.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

22 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Nobody really cares about the quests. DE work on those quests for years, then people play through all of them in a couple of hours, not counting the timegating. And never revisit them again, cause replayability value is zero. They're not even that good on the first playthrough.

I care. I was happy playing through Protea's quest. 

[Morthal]

3 hours ago, CoefficientOfCool said:

Personally, I think there are a lot more people wanting a new storyline quest than they anticipated but who knows, I'm here for the memes.

Yes! 
I'll take all of it, memes, difficulty improvements, incentives and most importantly story--GOOD STORY. But I know this is asking too much from a tiny indie company about to be purchased by one of the largest investment firms on the planet.

[OniDax]

3 minutes ago, Morthal said:

Yes! 
I'll take all of it, memes, difficulty improvements, incentives and most importantly story--GOOD STORY. But I know this is asking too much from a tiny indie company about to be purchased by one of the largest investment firms on the planet.

DE isn't a tiny indie company. They aren't tiny and they haven't been indie for five years now. It would be nice to have good story, and hopefully Tencent will encourage DE to hire good writers who care about story and consistent story at that, because DE certainly doesn't care about that.

[tipsy_princess]

4 часа назад, AperoBeltaTwo сказал:

my quote from another topic:

"Also, difficulty is overrated. I think people invoke difficulty in Warframe when they don't really know what they want and just feel like they have to say something. Nobody really cares about the game being difficult. What people really want, I think, is for the game to validate the hundreds and thousands of hours of grind people spent on collecting all this gear that in reality has no purpose for the most part. People want to actually play the game now, with all the gear and knowledge they've gathered over the time of their playthrough; that would also be worth future time investment. Today you're building your account for nothing. This looter shooter provides no reason to collect all this loot. Warframe doesn't have a flagship content."

kinda. feels rly odd to have all the gear just to farm new gear, while waiting and prepare for some actual content. and on each next update farm the new gear again instead of finally playing "the game".

Warframe is nothing but blueballing.

[(NSW)FlameDivinity]

6 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

my quote from another topic:

"Also, difficulty is overrated. I think people invoke difficulty in Warframe when they don't really know what they want and just feel like they have to say something. Nobody really cares about the game being difficult. What people really want, I think, is for the game to validate the hundreds and thousands of hours of grind people spent on collecting all this gear that in reality has no purpose for the most part. People want to actually play the game now, with all the gear and knowledge they've gathered over the time of their playthrough; that would also be worth future time investment. Today you're building your account for nothing. This looter shooter provides no reason to collect all this loot. Warframe doesn't have a flagship content."

Couldn't agree more.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

I care. I was happy playing through Protea's quest. 

Well you played it once, now what? How many hours have you spent in Warframe? And what portion of that time was spent on quests? There's barely 30 hours of total quest gameplay in Warframe. Compared to hundreds, often thousands of hours people spend on the actual game. While those measly 30 hours take a huge chunck of DE's resources to develop over the years. And the result isn't even that great. Sure, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have quests. But quests are a very small part of the game.

[Yakhul]

Flagship content you say? Well, I'm always happy to go to the Plains and fetch some fish.

That way, Early Lunch for Konzu has a meaning 🙂

[AperoBeltaTwo]

39 minutes ago, Yakhul said:

Flagship content you say? Well, I'm always happy to go to the Plains and fetch some fish.

That way, Early Lunch for Konzu has a meaning 🙂

Too bad we can't graffity on rocks anymore. True endgame.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

5 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Well you played it once, now what? How many hours have you spent in Warframe? And what portion of that time was spent on quests? There's barely 30 hours of total quest gameplay in Warframe. Compared to hundreds, often thousands of hours people spend on the actual game. While those measly 30 hours take a huge chunck of DE's resources to develop over the years. And the result isn't even that great. Sure, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have quests. But quests are a very small part of the game.

2,048 hours. 

Anyways, I've had more fun with the Protea quest than I've had for months playing the game. Railjack, Liches, Scarlet Spear...neither of the 3 made me happy going through it, whereas Protea's quest did make me happy. I wish DE, instead of using the leverian to give a story to frames, that they use it as a means to access playable stories. Alas, Leverian is a half assed museum essentially. Perfect microcosm of the game. Sigh.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Anyways, I've had more fun with the Protea quest than I've had for months playing the game.

 That says more about the game then about the quality of Protea's quest. Which part of the quest you enjoyed exactly? The gameplay or the dialogue and the story? Because if it's the dialogue and story that you want, you might as well just read a book or watch a movie, or play a game title with actual focus on the plot. Warframe is an online game. It's almost inherently not a story-driven experience. It just is what it is.

 After the praise Second Dream received DE went on a quest-making craze for the next couple years. Pretty much abandoning the rest of the game. Resulting in the Wait Within and the most destructive update in Warframe's history: Spectres of the Rail, and Void 2.0 in particular. Focus on story is BAD for this game. It's alright to have an odd quest here and there, but it cannot become the flagship content for an online game. If Warframe was released as a 30h+ story-driven game 7 years ago ,with all the currently existing quests present but without the core coop gameplay aspect, you wouldn't be playing it today. Lore and story cannot carry Warframe. It's too small of a portion of the game.

[(PSN)DoctorWho_90250]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 That says more about the game then about the quality of Protea's quest. Which part of the quest you enjoyed exactly? The gameplay or the dialogue and the story? Because if it's the dialogue and story that you want, you might as well just read a book or watch a movie, or play a game title with actual focus on the story. Warframe is an online game. It's almost inherently not a story-driven experience. It just is what it is.

 After the praise Second Dream received DE went on a quest-making craze for the next couple years. Pretty much abandoning the rest of the game. Resulting in the Wait Within and the most destructive update in Warframe's history: Spectres of the Rail, and Void 2.0 in particular. Focus on story is BAD for this game. It's alright to have an odd quest here and there, but it cannot become the flagship content for an online game. If Warframe was released as a 30h+ story-driven game in 7 years ago with all the existing quests present but without the core coop gameplay aspect, you wouldn't be playing it today. Lore and story cannot carry Warframe. It's too small of a portion of the game.

I like getting back story in this game. I like getting info about frames that aren't just provided in the "tell don't show" manner (by which I mean text in the codex and Leverian). With the quests, I get to take part in stuff that is focused on the lore of the game and what is going on in the setting currently. That is why Nightwave is something I enjoy. I liked the first Nightwave story, I liked the second one, and I am enjoying the third one. I actually enjoy when I am given stuff that details what is going on in the setting and is also something I can actively engage in...compared to doing stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again and it not meaning a damn thing. This game can be soo much better if DE were to handle the story better, rework it into something that is coherent and flows, something that allows us to see that what we're doing makes a difference in the setting rather than doing the same thing over and over again just for the loot or something, loot DE will just nerf anyway so why freakin' bother. 

Focus on the story is bad? Let's see:

Railjack --> Bombed on release, now a content island DE is stuck with because they decided, in their infinite wisdom, to link it with a story that didn't need it (not the story's fault, this is on DE screwing up).
Liches --> Yawn. Badly designed and just a dull experience overall. 
Scarlet Spear --> Not even story content, just a badly made event that had a cutscene tacked onto it. Essentially mobile defense, nothing interesting there. 

If DE had just not decided to link the main story to railjack, perhaps we would have something by now. Something great, even fantastic. But no, this insistence means DE has to flesh out railjack to give us more stuff on the main story. Not the fault of stories, it's on DE being unable to manage their projects.