Unairu's passives could use updating

[ImWithDerp]

It feels like Unairu's passives are in a bad spot compared to other schools' passives, at least as far as non-waybound passives go. Especially when it comes to staying relevant in higher level content.

Void Spines quickly loses impact as enemy EHP scales far past enemy damage. Stone Skin is a bit better but 60 armor is still pretty insignificant amount past early game. All other schools have passives with better scaling. Even Vazarin's revives can be significant help in missions where enemies are strong enough to down both Warframes and the defense/rescue target in quick succession.

Void Spines suggestions (one of the following):

• Resist/reflect negative statuses instead of damage (this would sidestep negative synergy with Stone Skin and other forms of damage reduction)
• Absorb a portion of incoming damage as energy instead of reflecting it back (calculation could happen before reductions to avoid the above negative synergies)

Stone Skin suggestions (one of the following)

• Reduce damage taken by a % instead of granting armor (this would sidestep how the effect of adding armor becomes less noticeable when combined with existing armor)
• Have more ranks with capacity increasing by 1 per rank (instead of 3) so the amount of armor it grants has more room for scaling
• Instead of granting a fixed armor value, grant a portion of our missing shields/health as armor

It might also be worth considering swapping their positions, with Stone Skin as the root node. This would avoid having to 'waste' capacity on a niche node no matter what other nodes we want to use.

 

[Xardis]

Focus system as a whole could use a major rework, and it coult use it outside of the expected additons from Duviri Paradox.

for example

[-Kittens-]

1 hour ago, ImWithDerp said:

 

• Reduce damage taken by a % instead of granting armor

...

What exactly do you think armor does?

 

[ImWithDerp]

2 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

...

What exactly do you think armor does?

 

Stack additively with other armor, according to the damage formula outlined in https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

[Steel_Rook]

7 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

Reduce damage taken by a % instead of granting armor (this would sidestep the diminishing returns of adding more armor to existing armor)

There are no diminishing returns in practice. Yes, for resistance as a function of armour there are diminishing returns. For effective health as a function of resistance, there are increasing returns. The two balance each other out, such that effective health is a linear function of armour. For every point of armour you add to your Warframe, you gain 1/300 of your total HP. With, say, 900 health, a single point of armour adds 3 points of effective health. 20 armour adds 60 points of effective health whether you go from 0 to 20 armour or 1000 to 1020 armour. The fewer multiplicative buffs we have, the better.

 

7 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

Absorb a portion of incoming damage as energy instead of reflecting it back (calculation could happen before reductions to avoid the above negative synergies)

This I can go with. It would be a neat alternative to Energising Dash, plus it makes sense within the "tank" theme of the School.

[-Kittens-]

5 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

Stack additively with other armor, according to the damage formula outlined in https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Damage

Might wanna reread that, then.

[ImWithDerp]

8 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

Might wanna reread that, then.

This formula means multiplicative damage reduction (as suggested in the OP) stacks differently than adding more to the "AR" variable above

[ImWithDerp]

8 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

There are no diminishing returns in practice. Yes, for resistance as a function of armour there are diminishing returns. For effective health as a function of resistance, there are increasing returns. The two balance each other out, such that effective health is a linear function of armour. For every point of armour you add to your Warframe, you gain 1/300 of your total HP. With, say, 900 health, a single point of armour adds 3 points of effective health. 20 armour adds 60 points of effective health whether you go from 0 to 20 armour or 1000 to 1020 armour. The fewer multiplicative buffs we have, the better.

Not sure if it helps, but that line has been reworded as "this would sidestep how the effect of adding armor becomes less noticeable when combined with existing armor".

I mean that, for example, going from 0 to 60 armor the first point of armor multiplies ehp by 1.2, but going from 200 to 260 armor multiplies ehp by only 1.12.

 

[Steel_Rook]

11 hours ago, ImWithDerp said:

I mean that, for example, going from 0 to 60 armor the first point of armor multiplies ehp by 1.2, but going from 200 to 260 armor multiplies ehp by only 1.12.

Let me explain with a bit more detail. Resistance is a function of armour in the following way:

R = A/(A + 300)

Where R is resistance and A is Armour. Effective health is a function of resistance in the following way:

EHP = HP/(1 - R)

Where EHP is Effective Health, HP is health, R is resistance. When you swap in armour and normalise the function, you get:

EHP = HP/(1 - R) = HP/(1 - A/(A + 300)) = HP/((A + 300 - A)/(A + 300)) = HP/(300/(A + 300)) = HP*(A + 300)/300 = HP*(300/300) + HP*(A/300) = HP + HP*(A/300)
or
EHP = HP + HP*(A/300)

To your examples: Let's assume a health of 700 which is about average for a 100 base health Warframe with Vitality at Rank 30. With 0 armour, you have 700 EHP, obviously. At 60 armour, you have 700 + 700*(60/300) = 840 EHP, an increase of 140. At 200 armour, you have 700 + 700*(200/300) ~ 1166.67 EHP. At 260 armour, you have 700 + 700*(260/300) ~ 1306.67, an increase of... 140. Hell, you can even go crazy with the numbers. 1500 vs 1560 armour gives you the same EHP increase of 140, at 4340 vs 4200 EHP.

I understand it's counter-intuitive, but it is true. The reason you can see smaller multipliers but still get the same number is because you're applying smaller multipliers to a larger base. You can try doing your own calculations using your own formula. Check how much EHP you get by going through the resistance and effective health calculations separately. You'll get the same numbers.

And yes, EHP does matter. Damage resistance is a relative stat which tells you how well you're resisting damage. EHP tells you precisely how much damage you can take before you die, excluding healing.