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WE NEED MORE PVP MODES

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9 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

 Meanwhile they have no good pvp track record .

Unreal Tournament? 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

Archwing has nothing to do with this thread. DE has proven they can make good PVE systems, archwing just isnt one of them. Meanwhile they have no good pvp track record and the only reason conclave is still part of the game is because not enough people play it for DE to even hear the complaints about it (like about telos boltace). If DE feels like they have to divert effort from other projects to conclave it will get removed.

It's an analogy, and a good enough one at that: they made several iterative improvements to Archwing, and Railjack was the latest and biggest step in that series. And they're not done with it, either. They've already announced they're going to turn them into a modular system, somehow. Similarly, Conclave 2.0 is, imho, a massive improvement to its first iteration. It's just a shame they don't even maintain it properly anymore.

Also, they could simply reactivate one of the removed/event Variant modes, and that would be an additional mode at barely any cost.

 

If you don't feel that way, then we just have to agree to disagree.

 

P.S. The other thing I take issue with here is how several people who want nothing to do with PvP in this game pile on the guy who is new to the forums. In time, he'll learn that this kind of dislike is par for the course around here, naturally.

Edited by Kontrollo
typos
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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Tachmag:

Unreal Tournament? 

In the post before that I did specify in warframe so forgive me for missing it the second time. DE was a completely different studio back when working on the UT games and also didnt work on them alone. It's safe to say that the dev skill that made the UT games good pvp has not shown up in warframe. If you want to cling to what is far in the past then go ahead, but I wont.

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1 minute ago, Drachnyn said:

In the post before that I did specify in warframe so forgive me for missing it the second time. DE was a completely different studio back when working on the UT games and also didnt work on them alone. It's safe to say that the dev skill that made the UT games good pvp has not shown up in warframe. If you want to cling to what is far in the past then go ahead, but I wont.

If you haven't played Conclave 2.0 for a while, then you probably don't understand that they had a pretty good grasp on balance, while they were working on it.

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Summarizing: the problem with Warframe PvP isn't developer capability, it's developer time. Even the best of just about any profession need time to build, fix, and tweak. And even if they were mediocre, it'd just mean a little more time to get to that same state. Rome wasn't built in a day, but even a monkey could type the works of Shakespeare given an eternity.

And if we're talking about PvP modes:

  • Annihilation
  • Free-for-all (same as Annihilation but with PvE setups and near-instant respawns - because total chaos)
  • Events (for Quick Steel and the like)
  • And probably keep Lunaro around (some people like it)

That'd get some good variety, trim the fat, and be quite straightforward to implement as far as I see.

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Warframe has always been a PVE focused game, it was never even DE's plan to introduce Conclave, they only did it to sate some players that "Wanted to prove they had bigger brains than others" tho the system was never further worked on because balancing a bunch of frames and weapons to properly work in Conclave would be a hell of a hard job considering players always find a way to exploit something, not to mention, adding any actual worthwhile resource or items to the Conclave's reward pools would cause players to try hacking for advantages.

Personally i would have Conclave be completely removed from the game and never talk about it again.

Teshin should be the one giving out the challenges that Nora Night gives alongside the old Alert System and the items sold by him be bought with either daily reputation or Creds obtained from said challenges.

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3 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Summarizing: the problem with Warframe PvP isn't developer capability, it's developer time. Even the best of just about any profession need time to build, fix, and tweak. And even if they were mediocre, it'd just mean a little more time to get to that same state. Rome wasn't built in a day, but even a monkey could type the works of Shakespeare given an eternity.

And if we're talking about PvP modes:

  • Annihilation
  • Free-for-all (same as Annihilation but with PvE setups and near-instant respawns - because total chaos)
  • Events (for Quick Steel and the like)
  • And probably keep Lunaro around (some people like it)

That'd get some good variety, trim the fat, and be quite straightforward to implement as far as I see.

I'd already be happy if they'd keep it roughly in the same way it was when I took a break in 2017. Or give us one of the Variant modes so I can play something when they inevitably mess something up again.

 

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Warframe has always been a PVE focused game, it was never even DE's plan to introduce Conclave, they only did it to sate some players that "Wanted to prove they had bigger brains than others" tho the system was never further worked on because balancing a bunch of frames and weapons to properly work in Conclave would be a hell of a hard job considering players always find a way to exploit something, not to mention, adding any actual worthwhile resource or items to the Conclave's reward pools would cause players to try hacking for advantages.

Wow, so much slander and misinformation in a single paragraph. I don't even know where to start.

Some of us just like PvP, and ideally people would see it as a sport.

1 hour ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Personally i would have Conclave be completely removed from the game and never talk about it again.

How many times have you repeated that already? I've seen you say it in a lot of PvP topics before. You must care deeply about that, it's just sad that it's only in a negative way. Imagine putting that energy into something productive instead.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Tachmag said:

So for you, competition is by nature toxic? 

Coming from the military, competition is toxic. Especially in a co-op game. The only thing worse in Warframe than a hallway hero trying to pad their kill count is someone afk at the spawn point. 

The reason most competition can be see as toxic is because it is usually completely self serving. In the military units will compete with each other not to “be the best” but more to better all parties involved so that one day when we are fighting beside one another, we know everyone knows what they’re doing. It is also done without overly glorifying victory as it blurs the fact that we are all on the same team. Pvp has its place for sure, I personally don’t think it is in Warframe.

Edited by (PS4)Kamranos
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2 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

I'd already be happy if they'd keep it roughly in the same way it was when I took a break in 2017. Or give us one of the Variant modes so I can play something when they inevitably mess something up again.

Indeed: Annihilation for the regular mode, free-for-all to mess around, events for something different / a fallback when Annihilation breaks, and Lunaro because space soccer. Rather than Annihilation, Annihilation with teams, Annihilation with talking flag-balls, and Lunaro.

That's just my personal taste, at least.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

The reason most competition can be see as toxic is because it is usually completely self serving.

Perhaps it's important to distinguish that competition isn't necessarily toxic, but can be and can promote toxicity. I've met plenty of people in Conclave who are, indeed, willing to help me get better (in spite of my frank idiocy). Moreover, various elements of Conclave's tone could be tweaked to closer resemble the competition you describe between your military units. For example, normalizing Teshin's end-quotes to trim "win" and "loss" concepts and emphasize Conclave's use as a proverbial training ground. And if, at that point, competition is still toxic, then Tachmag's presumption was correct: competition by nature is toxic. Not "competition that is self-serving", but "competition full stop".

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8 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Wow, so much slander and misinformation in a single paragraph. I don't even know where to start.

Some of us just like PvP, and ideally people would see it as a sport.

And what was the misinformation? When i said that someone "Wanted to prove they had bigger brains than others" , it wasnt something i made up, i quoting something i had read in other Posts asking for PVP Improvements in the game.

8 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

How many times have you repeated that already? I've seen you say it in a lot of PvP topics before. You must care deeply about that, it's just sad that it's only in a negative way. Imagine putting that energy into something productive instead.

Yeah, i hate the idea of PVP in Warframe as i have fled many other games that forced it on me later on. Iv had issues with Games that locked content behind PVP barriers in the past, i dislike the idea of people getting toxic in the game because they lose matches against other players and i worry PVP hacks could end up going into the PVE part of the game as i have already seen players in-game and on youtube Videos using hacks in Conclave and reported them for it.

Theres also the personal problem, i have anxiety, if i PVP i start shaking and feeling sick, risk having a seizure and even blacking out. I know there are many other players in the game with the same issue and that have shared the same frustration as me of having items or some sort of progress locked behind PVP.

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54 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Yeah, i hate the idea of PVP in Warframe as i have fled many other games that forced it on me later on. Iv had issues with Games that locked content behind PVP barriers in the past, i dislike the idea of people getting toxic in the game because they lose matches against other players and i worry PVP hacks could end up going into the PVE part of the game as i have already seen players in-game and on youtube Videos using hacks in Conclave and reported them for it.

Theres also the personal problem, i have anxiety, if i PVP i start shaking and feeling sick, risk having a seizure and even blacking out. I know there are many other players in the game with the same issue and that have shared the same frustration as me of having items or some sort of progress locked behind PVP.

Just like to add on: this is the sort of reason I advocate for being able to trade Conclave stuff.

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4 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

And what was the misinformation? When i said that someone "Wanted to prove they had bigger brains than others" , it wasnt something i made up, i quoting something i had read in other Posts asking for PVP Improvements in the game.

Yeah, i hate the idea of PVP in Warframe as i have fled many other games that forced it on me later on. Iv had issues with Games that locked content behind PVP barriers in the past, i dislike the idea of people getting toxic in the game because they lose matches against other players and i worry PVP hacks could end up going into the PVE part of the game as i have already seen players in-game and on youtube Videos using hacks in Conclave and reported them for it.

  You're not arguing in good faith here. First of all, if you're quoting someone, do it properly. Then let me get this straight: one person's idiotic remark is where you set the bar and it's enough reason for you to jump into who knows how many threads asking for the removal of something other people enjoy doing? Where does the "some players" factor into that?

Repeat after me: Warframe doesn't force anyone into PvP, there's nothing exlusively locked in there that would help PvE progression. That's one thing the devs where the devs have been consistent, and they proved it yet again when they made more Conclave mods into dual mods. I have zero sympathy for you if that is the reason you constantly rile against something that has zero impact on your gameplay. As said above:

18 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

That it's not for everyone is not surprising, but it'd already help if people like you would just leave it alone and let those who are interested in it do their own thing.

Too much to ask, I know, I know.

I've encountered cheaters/exploiters in PvP, too, and it's not just about rewards.  But that's an unpalatable reality of video games, it's not exclusive to PvP; wasn't it a partner who got banned for exploiting PvE, even? Again, you're not discussing this in good faith, and you're not alone.

Frankly, I'm tired of this bandwagon. It's been going on for years and you people never ever stop.

 

And regarding the misinformation: Yes, people have asked for it so they added a simple "Conclave point" system to give a value mods -- which they also used for some PvE Alerts, so in a way that was beneficial outside of PvP, too. Then players were excited for it when they announced 2.0. Your personal dislike is not a free pass to make S#&$ up. Here's an old thread with reactions:

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4 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Just like to add on: this is the sort of reason I advocate for being able to trade Conclave stuff.

Just for the record, I've said that, too.

And even though there isn't really much in there that is exclusive to the Syndicate anymore. Mods are/were already tradeable even if they're exclusive to Conclave, anyway. The highest tier of armour you can get from the market -- that has been the case since the beginning. And the Syandana is probably of little value by itself, because like those of the other Syndicates, it requires upkeep to keep lit (and I think that doesn't even work in hubs).

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On 2020-07-27 at 3:35 PM, Tachmag said:

So for you, competition is by nature toxic? 

Just think about all the factions that compete against each other in pve... how toxic is that following that logic waowie

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10 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

hubs

It dosen't even work in the profile screen iirc

Just imagine DE would announce a pvp related fix after years of neglect and just fixes lantern lighting in the Syndicate's relay room instead of anything else. Just imagine...

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On 2020-07-28 at 8:07 PM, Loxyen said:

It dosen't even work in the profile screen iirc

Just imagine DE would announce a pvp related fix after years of neglect and just fixes lantern lighting in the Syndicate's relay room instead of anything else. Just imagine...

I could not see that happen, like, ever. Not with this studio! People would be up in arms! 😉

 

Or how about fixing "Warframes running at an angle" or whatever that was? Twice? 😄

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