Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?

[DrivaMain]

This movement shows that they can’t keep up with Warframe works because of how many manpower heavy projects in the pipeline : Duviri, Railjack Content, and New War. For the time being they can keep players that desperate for reworks to be happy by allowing them to swap out a terrible ability with another one they deem useful.

Plus this also generates data on what is the worst and the best abilities in the game by looking at how many times that ability have been swapped with something else.

[(PSN)Raven-Ghosthawk]

2 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Most likely, math rush will not be available because it is related to the warframe theme. I think Gauss will get his 3.

Who're you adding math rush to?

[Myscho]

1 minute ago, Vyra said:

Finally can use Ironskin on any frame, yey.

Dont be so sure about it, they give list of abilities that can be donated when update goes live, which is kinda sad

[Veridian]

18 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Maybe work on that reading comprehension a bit.

I called the system,  not DE, shallow, because it objectively is from what they showcased.

Why add it in the game if it's going to be either or?

I comprehend quite well and using the word "objectively" doesn't magically make your point beyond reproach.

From what I've seen, the ammount of resources and frames required just to utilize it and whatever progression system it has attached to it is way less shallow than most video game mechanics these days. If it was that shallow, we'd have known everything about it in that 5 min. showcase.

Also it's not going to be either or, I said it could be. For all we know, it might be completely balanced (sceptic on that, however).

[xcrimsonlegendx]

31 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Honestly the only one I am holding out hope for is Protea's Fan Grenade.

Because I want that to replace Vauban's Tesla Nervos so badly.

I want to replace his orbital strike with it, so all of his abilities involve throwing spheres at people. lol

[selig_fay]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Raven-Ghosthawk said:

Who're you adding math rush to?

Well, I don't know this ability very well, so I wouldn't use it. It would be a meme to give this to Titania, but I think it would just be impossible. Or razorwing will just block it, since why not?

[Sahansral]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb ShogunGunshow:

I look forward to DE's future internal discussions where they're actively watering down abilities for upcoming frames out of nervousness that the subsumed one might end up breaking the game.

This, I think they opened another can of worms in regards of balancing their game...

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix]

7 minutes ago, Blexander said:

In all honesty, if this was a system where we could do the same (sacrifice a frame) but instead of replacing abilities, we modify their effects (like augments but a bit different), I'd be all for it. It keeps the frames the same, the meta isn't intrusive, it's easy to balance.

I'm fine with whatever as long as it's not what we have right now. But hey, it's already all packaged and ready to go so we just have to wait and see. If they just give Iron skin or Roar to everyone I'm going to be very, very upset.

[Blexander]

2 minutes ago, Ver1dian said:

From what I've seen, the ammount of resources and frames required just to utilize it and whatever progression system it has attached to it is way less shallow than most video game mechanics these days. If it was that shallow, we'd have known everything about it in that 5 min. showcase.

But... We DO know everything there is to it. All we don't know is the list of abilities we'll get.

[Cptcurdles]

im curious to see what abilities they take from limbo/octavia/hildryn and how they will work on other frames, like hildryns ability on inaros for example

 

[(PSN)lumen2ne1]

1 minute ago, DrivaMain said:

This movement shows that they can’t keep up with Warframe works because of how many manpower heavy projects in the pipeline : Duviri, Railjack Content, and New War. For the time being they can keep players that desperate for reworks to be happy by allowing them to swap out a terrible ability with another one they deem useful.

Yet they already showed and confirmed 3 warframes coming this year, with Protea that's 4 warframes on 2020. They released 4 on 2019 too, 4 on 2018, 3 on 2017, 3 on 2016... and so on, so if anything, it's ramping up from the past years. This "movement" is just a band-aid to reworks so they can work on other things. Now they don't have to rework Trinity to give her an useful 1st ability and and decent 3rd because you can swap those out for new ones.

[Chaosmade]

My questing is, need we a lvl 30 warframe to feed Helmith?

 

[BlackCat500]

Yeah, not gonna lie, I agree. Resource sinks are a good thing and this is definitely something worth investing into with said resources, but unless the pool is so limited it won't be worth it in the first place it sounds like a new layer of powercreep not needed.

 

Also, if there isn't going to be an ingame list of abilities you can acquire via this method at any given point in time, rather than a one-time update notice, I am going to be very disappointed. Every system is like this. This is the reason why the wiki is so popular, because if you don't keep up with a sufficient amount of help menus on every update you release, you end up with the most massive backlog of updates no newbie will ever comprehend.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

But wait a minute what does that mean for Xaku?, don't they already have an ability that mimics other abilities?

[Blexander]

Just now, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But wait a minute what does that mean for Xaku?, don't they already have an ability that mimics other abilities?

Uh, no? Xaku has a Void damage buff on 1, old operator lazer on 2, disarm plus the stolen guns attack on 3, and Sans Undertale on 4.

[DrivaMain]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)lumen2ne1 said:

This "movement" is just a band-aid to reworks so they can work on other things. Now they don't have to rework Trinity to give her an useful 1st ability and and decent 3rd because you can swap those out for new ones.

Simple, new warframes generate more revenue than reworking existing ones. So they are more willing to invest on that instead of reworking on existing ones.

To be honest this is better than nothing. Yes I was a bit upset that Chroma rework is not in DE’s sight. But at the very least I can replace that joke of an ability that is spectral scream with something more useful.

[Veridian]

Just now, Blexander said:

But... We DO know everything there is to it. All we don't know is the list of abilities we'll get.

we have 0 clue what that progression system progressed towards tho. We also have something, which would be quite deep. Knowing what ability would work on a frame and which to replace it with. Sure the average player will just remove sandstorm from Inaros, slap whatever he feels most op and call it a day, but just imagine smacking pillage on volt for example, or thurible on messa.

[quxier]

3 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:

You cant let his 1 be transferable, because you have no way to enter the rift yourself.

It's duration based so you can transfer it. Let's say you Banish rescue target and then you have to re-banish him/her from time to time. In case of defense you can banish stronger enemy (or some enemy that takes your energy/health), take other enemies, wait for the Banish to end, kill "the stronger enemy". I bet it won't be the best ability. People will troll others, that's for sure. However in right hand this ability will be useful.

[Traumtulpe]

Just now, wizardeiges said:

What do you hope to make?

Since each Warframe will only offer one specific ability, chosen by DE, to use, it seems pointless to speculate about possibilities at this moment. But have some examples of abilities I'd like to replace:

• Saryn's Miasma. Either damage reduction or longer CC would be my preferred replacements (looking at Baruuk).
• Ash's Teleport. Either a damage Buff, fun active ability, or speed buff.
• Limbo's Rift Surge. Imagine a damage ability (they are not restricted by being in the Rift).
• Nekros's 1. Anything will be great. Literally anything.

Specific builds and synergies will be fun to theorize once we have a list of available abilities from DE. So far I only know Shock (Volt), Pull (Mag), Fire Walker (Nezha), and Molt (Saryn).

I am really interested in Baruuk's, Wisp's and Octavia's abilities. How will Nidus's ability work? Grendel? Garuda?

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, Blexander said:

Uh, no? Xaku has a Void damage buff on 1, old operator lazer on 2, disarm plus the stolen guns attack on 3, and Sans Undertale on 4.

No they have a cycle power that allows them to use a set of warframe abilities 

At least that's what i got from the stream

[Myscho]

8 minutes ago, BlackCat500 said:

Also, if there isn't going to be an ingame list of abilities you can acquire via this method

Rebecca said there will be list of abilities that can be donated

[Blexander]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

No they have a cycle power that allows them to use a set of warframe abilities 

At least that's what i got from the stream

That's the 2nd ability, and it doesn't cycle. It just has a tap and a hold function. No part of Xaku's kit has ability mimicking.

[Dthamilaye]

Some definitely did not watch the stream...

1) Only normal warframes can be sacrified. Primes can not be sacrified.

2) Each warframe will have ONE ability, decided beforehand by DE, that can be infused. (i.e. the ability that will be given to the Helminth after sacrifice)

3) Some examples: Volt = Shock / Mag = Pull / also heard that Pablo had said that Saryn = Molt and Nezha = Firewalk

4) Any augment mods for these abilities CAN be used by the receiving warframe as well.

5) You can replace any one of your four abilities on the receiving warframe, but you can replace ONLY one ability total (i.e. cannot combine pull and shock on Excalibur etc).

6) You can decide, what configurations (A, B, C, etc) are changed by the infusion. So you can add Shock to your Excal for configurations A and B, but keep C intact with original ability setup.

7) You can revert the infusion at will, if you want (there was a button on the screen for that)

8 ) After you sacrifice a warframe, his/her ability will be available as an infusion forever. I.e. you ever need to sacrifice a specific warframe only once.

9) There will be no "signature" or "ultimate" abilities given via sacrifice.

These were the facts as far as I know, from the stream.

Now, my opinion is that the abilities will be the ones that are the least used on each frame, keeping it as simple as possible. I assume you will not get any "4" abilities, or anything that is used a lot already, like Spores or big defensive abilities like ... was it "2" for Mesa, etc. I'm not sure what they will do with some of the newer frames that, instead of just having 4 kinda random abilities, have abilities that require, or at least synergize with each other. I.e. what ability would you infuse from Grendel, for example?

Anyways, I'm interested. As someone said in the first few pages, either this will be a complete mess that throws balance out of the door, or it will be just something not that powerful that will give some possibilities to change completely useless powers on a frame to a bit more useful one. I'm thinking about the latter. Thus, all the infused powers will be the least powerful and useful on a frame. Of course, there might still be something good available, but hopefully nothing that really breaks the game, or becomes "mandatory power". 

[(PSN)DidacoJack]

28 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

I think It's fairly straight forward.

The most used ability on a given frame is a signature ability.

Mesa: Shatter Shield

Uh-huh, sure, Shatter Shield is definitely her most used ability.

Jk, I know what you mean.

 

I think people are setting their expectations way too high for this feature. Don't get me wrong, I'm hyped as well, but I know it's going to be "trash" abilities from each warframe and I'm thankful for that.

There's still the question about OP frames like Trinity, everything in her kit is pretty much op, or frames that have their kits tied together like limbo or Grendel.

I'm so curious.

@Vyra Ironskin is a signature move, it's gonna be Charge.

[Magus_Tahir]

Pablo also said nothing is set in stone yet and things are open to revision.

We haven't reached gospel yet people. And even then there are always exceptions to the rule.