Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?

[Methanoid]

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Volt with Molt.

Double speed boost.

Need I say more?

augmented metamorphosis on a razorwing titania?

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, T-Shark69 said:

Saryn's will be Molt and Nezha's will be Firewalker. Confirmed by Pablo

That's good to hear about Saryn and Nezha....

But this leaves me worried for future frames and their kits.
After all if a kit is too synergistic they can't just remove an ability to use the subsume system.
Further it means that every kit will have a "weak/useless" ability that can be moved to other frames...

I mean take Limbo or Baruuk for instance: What abilities can they give up?
All of limbo's abilities are tied to the rift that only he can get into due to his passive on dodge...so how will a removed ability from Limbo function on any other frame in the game?
For Baruuk all of his abilities use restraint...so how will that function on any other frame?
Or what about Grendel since all of his abilities rely on eating enemies and eating enemies is his "signature"?
How will Octavia function with a donated ability since it all relies on the mandachord?

Highly synergistic kits from now on will be forced to have an ability that just doesn't fit in so that it can donate it to other frames via this system which heavily limits their kit options.

[Marine027]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Tsukinoki:

That's good to hear about Saryn and Nezha....

But this leaves me worried for future frames and their kits.
After all if a kit is too synergistic they can't just remove an ability to use the subsume system.
Further it means that every kit will have a "weak/useless" ability that can be moved to other frames...

I mean take Limbo or Baruuk for instance: What abilities can they give up?
All of limbo's abilities are tied to the rift that only he can get into due to his passive on dodge...so how will a removed ability from Limbo function on any other frame in the game?
For Baruuk all of his abilities use restraint...so how will that function on any other frame?
Or what about Grendel since all of his abilities rely on eating enemies and eating enemies is his "signature"?
How will Octavia function with a donated ability since it all relies on the mandachord?

Highly synergistic kits from now on will be forced to have an ability that just doesn't fit in so that it can donate it to other frames via this system which heavily limits their kit options.

It feels halfbaked, a way to find something to sink resoruces in and old frames are the cherry on top seemingly, i can promise i won't use this garbage, i see no point ot do this here, unlike weapons i upgrade into other onces and can rebuild rather fast i see no reason to sacrifce a whole frame like this.

I like to collect all, have all weapons and frames atm except Founder stuff, i like to keep those things, now refarming them or sacrifice them to get something in my eyes worthless it's pointless, and on top will cause heavy imbalcne an outcry, peopel will ask why this and that power can't be used, etc.

Instead of fixing those "useless" powers they maek such, just like thery made bandaid augment mods or Rivens., i still try to like this game but this gaem latley for years runs on bandaids over bandaids, and this thing is another badnaid slapped on because they suddnely remebered "Infested update, oh wait we still have the helmith thing don't we? Let us finally use it, anyoen ideas? No? Lets use it as garbaage can for resoruces and slap warframes in it to make it meaningful seemingly for the players."

[Kaokasalis]

Tennocon 2020 was awesome and Heart of Deimos has me pretty stoked for the 25th of August. The act of adding other abilities to other frames by letting the Helminth consume them also looked pretty cool and quite interested to see how it will turn out.

One thing that worries me however is that DE said it will take 24 hours to consume a frame fully. Currently there are 43 normal frames in the game which will be 44 when Xaku arrives. That's 44 days to unlock all abilities which seems a bit long to me. Unless DE has already planned for us to be able to speed up the process which hopefully doesn't involve plat, how about letting frames with a higher level rank be consumed faster than a unranked one would? It would give those that want to speed up the process a way to do so. That or hopefully the Helminth can consume more than one frame at the time.

[selig_fay]

5 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Highly synergistic kits from now on will be forced to have an ability that just doesn't fit in so that it can donate it to other frames via this system which heavily limits their kit options.

Or we just remove the synergy and make this ability just give effect to the benefit of the player without any synergy. I'll say it again, check how it works in railjeck tactic. Abilities that could not function in the system were slightly modified. On the other hand, an ability that is the main one for a frame, such as Wisp 1 for example, will not be granted in any case.

3 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

Instead of fixing those "useless" powers they maek such, just like thery made bandaid augment mods or Rivens., i still try to like this game but this gaem latley for years runs on bandaids over bandaids, and this thing is another badnaid slapped on because they suddnely remebered "Infested update, oh wait we still have the helmith thing don't we? Let us finally use it, anyoen ideas? No? Lets use it as garbaage can for resoruces and slap warframes in it to make it meaningful seemingly for the players."

It was the players idea. This won't stop reworks in any case, but it will smooth out the wait and give some flexibility.

For example, Ember fireball. Yes, a useless ability, but I don't think so, because it has some CC and damage, but the most important thing is the augment that will give damage buff. I can say the same about Frost and Volt. It would be great if Oberon did, too.And I can say that I would not mind these abilities even without augment, if they cost 5 energy.

[T-Shark69]

14 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

I mean take Limbo or Baruuk for instance: What abilities can they give up?

I read somewhere on discord, so not the most official, but apparently they mentioned tweaking some abilities so they work universally. 

[(PSN)Unstar]

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't see a problem with not getting access to everything immediately.  Every day I get a new Warframe power to play with on all my other frames?  That sounds like a great deal to me.

When Helminth+ arrives, you'll be able to prioritize your feeding order as well.  You can create your own personal schedule based on what powers you want the most.  And then of course, there are abilities like Volt's 1, which you can save until the end because nobody would ever, ever, ever want to add that to a Warframe.

My personal recommendation would be to reframe the way you're thinking about this, because it's not like it takes 44 days to get anything; it takes 44 days to get everything.  I would recommend thinking about it in terms of "how long does it take to get a thing?"  The answer being: 1 day.  A new toy on a daily basis!  That sounds nice. 🙂

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Unstar said:

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't see a problem with not getting access to everything immediately.  Every day I get a new Warframe power to play with on all my other frames?  That sounds like a great deal to me.

When Helminth+ arrives, you'll be able to prioritize your feeding order as well.  You can create your own personal schedule based on what powers you want the most.  And then of course, there are abilities like Volt's 1, which you can save until the end because nobody would ever, ever, ever want to add that to a Warframe.

My personal recommendation would be to reframe the way you're thinking about this, because it's not like it takes 44 days to get anything; it takes 44 days to get everything.  I would recommend thinking about it in terms of "how long does it take to get a thing?"  The answer being: 1 day.  A new toy on a daily basis!  That sounds nice. 🙂

Plus there’s not too many abilities that would absolutely be useful for all other frames. So really there’s only but a few that you may absolutely want. Which is no different than waiting to build a frame. Which takes 3.5 days. As someone who likes trying to merge 2 frames into the perfect duo, I have no problem waiting. Imagine Hildryn with Protea. Or Volt with Gauss. Or Inaros with wisp. Some abilities would be good for all while others may be totally useless. Doubt anybody who has been playing for quite a while would be in any Speed Mach Rush get all of them.

[Ejuz]

They messed the games concept again.

[Mephane]

2 hours ago, T-Shark69 said:

You mean his 2. His 3 is an amazing CC tool on its own.

Ah yeah, sorry, mixed up the numbers.

[SweetAnubis]

i think my biggest concern is that its all going to be basic damage abilities... I'm really hoping for some utility abilities to fill holes in my fave frames, things like snow globe for defensive missions so i dont always have to pull out an orb frame every time, or some travel abilities for frames that dont have the best jump or speed (i mean jet stream anyone?) or maybe a bit of survivability for squishier frames with some buff abilities.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

If they make any tank ability available then I see no reason not to completely replace Revenants 2 with it.

[ZenHare]

The thing is that DE has to pick one of four powers for each warframe and some frames have no weak abilities or their weak ability is their ultimate. So, I predict that 90% of players will use the same small handful of abilities. So, DE will most likely pull this back for rework or nerf it heavily, e.g. a borrowed ability is only 50% as effective as the original.

 

[Daskrieg]

Just now, ZenHare said:

The thing is that DE has to pick one of four powers for each warframe and some frames have no weak abilities or their weak ability is their ultimate. So, I predict that 90% of players will use the same small handful of abilities. So, DE will most likely pull this back for rework or nerf it heavily, e.g. a borrowed ability is only 50% as effective as the original.

 

not going to rule this out since someone out there probably has thought of taking saryns molt and tossing it onto inaros for even more immortal mode or some other kind of unique monstrosity.

[Loza03]

One of Helminth's baked-in abilities will give power strength to the next cast, so that one piques interest.

 

Personally hoping for a teleport as well, mostly because I play Limbo a lot and would love more space/time shenanigans with him.

[Daskrieg]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

One of Helminth's baked-in abilities will give power strength to the next cast, so that one piques interest.

 

Personally hoping for a teleport as well, mostly because I play Limbo a lot and would love more space/time shenanigans with him.

limbo with loki's switch teleport.......let the games begin.

[ZenHare]

5 minutes ago, Daskrieg said:

not going to rule this out since someone out there probably has thought of taking saryns molt and tossing it onto inaros for even more immortal mode or some other kind of unique monstrosity.

Molt is only decent at low and mid levels. At high levels when stuff can one shot you, Molt isn't that great and you have to spend a mod slot on it to get the most use out of it. I would take Trinity's Well of Life over Molt. No need to waste a mod slot. Look at Trinity. Well of Life is her weakest ability.

[Methanoid]

molt or better yet, null star may be useful for loki or maybe the low health hildryn.

[ZenHare]

Just now, Methanoid said:

molt or better yet, null star may be useful for loki or maybe the low health hildryn.

We won't get Null Star. DE would have to be beyond stupid to give us Null Star.

[Methanoid]

Just now, ZenHare said:

We won't get Null Star. DE would have to be beyond stupid to give us Null Star.

desolate hands from baruuk?  wonder if they will allow condemn for hildryn's use as well, theres a few "niche" abilities depending on whats allowed and if they nerf/tweak abilities like conclave to make sure good abilities underperform.

[Syln]

I love the idea but in the mean time i think that it strip every warframes from their identity, i rather have an helminth original pool of power each with their own specificity and look so that you still get the possibility to replace some useless power without making warframe using each other skill (which for some reasons unsettle me).

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

Everyone is talking about the best possible skills to change and here i just want infested speed on all my warframes

Edit: we havent seen the las helminth skills either, i cannot wait for those

[Tiltskillet]

2 hours ago, Samhel said:

The Helminth Chrysalis system is undoubtedly the most interesting gameplay system that comes with the Heart of Deimos update, but as far as I see it, we can only get some low dps abilities for frames like shock, ice wave or things like these. Whose gonna even use pull or shock that they showed us anyway? I mean, this system, could make builds so much more interesting, but with these abilities I don't know if it's worth the time to farm out frames just for sacraficing them... What does excalibur give us then? Slash Dash? ;-;

I would replace Banshee's 4 with -any- of the revealed options:  Shock, Fire Walker, or Molt.   And not just in a replacing pennies with nickles kind of way.  Any of them would add a lot to her potential. 

Molt is probably the one I'd go for since it would be the least jarring on her.  Plus I have no problem sacrificing Saryn for a good cause. 😛  But I think there will be other good choices.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SummoningRaziel said:

Pocket sand Ash is going to be amazing. 

Now you’re talking dirty, might mess around with Pocket Sand on Mesa too. 

[ShogunGunshow]

3 hours ago, tzaeru said:

IIRC the system is going to work so that only one ability can be taken from every Frame. This ability is predetermined by the developers. E.g. for Mag, only Pull can be picked, no other ability can be taken.

When I first heard about this upcoming system, I was pretty worried to be honest - Warframe's "balance" is already super flimsy and people can solo anything with the correct build. Personally I prefer when games require more coordination and co-operation. Before I read that the system is going to only allow pulling one pre-determined Warframe ability from each Frame, I figured that this would be extremely, extremely overpowered.

What balance?