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Discussion and Feedback on the Helminth Chrysalis - The most shocking feature ever revealed?


(PSN)ChaosTheNerd

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Just now, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Oh sorry man, what's wrong with just shaking it up a bit? 

No you're totally right. We should be able to trade Ults for every frame and put IronSkin on everything.....just to be intelligent and shake it all up.

Nobody said anything about ultimates. I think keeping ultimates out was a good choice. I don't want ultimates. Speaking of, Saryn's spores really fall off fast without her ult. So that's another concern alleviated. 

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vor 24 Minuten schrieb Balegrim:

I wanna shake things up even MORE. But putting lots of different things on lots of frames. It's implementing like this is half hearted and makes little tangible difference to a players ability to do content. But it does make stuff a lot cooler. 

This would pretty much result in very few frames being the best at everything while the rest gets absolutely invalidated to exist other than as food for the Helminth. They even mentioned a prime example on stream for the danger of this with Desecrate. You could put Desecrate on any other frame and Nekros  might as well not exist. Imagine Desecrate replacing Venari on Khora.

The fact it is limited is what shakes it up more. If the system is too open there will be always one clear best choice that players will figure out eventually.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Oh sorry man, what's wrong with just shaking it up a bit? 

No you're totally right. We should be able to trade Ults for every frame and put IronSkin on everything.....just to be intelligent and shake it all up.

You seem to be getting pretty stroppy about this. For starters, they didn't say Ults, they said signature. And secondly you're focusing too much on picking people apart for their language and not discussing the simple fact that DE promised something that would be amazingly fun and give endgame players something to get excited about, but decided against it, leaving people who can cream the content feeling a little ripped off. 

But sure. If you want to say shake it up a few more times, I'm sure people won't think any less of you. 

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19 minutes ago, Balegrim said:

I wanna shake things up even MORE. But putting lots of different things on lots of frames. It's implementing like this is half hearted and makes little tangible difference to a players ability to do content. But it does make stuff a lot cooler. 

Yes, turn warframes into literal survivability/passive skins that you can put the best abilities on to invalidate  the vast majority of the Warframes in the game. Then I'd just put Wisp's Motes, EV, Roar and Peacemaker on my Inaros or Nidus and be totally unkillable, or, maybe change out Roar for Desecrate so I literally invalidate almost every frame in the game.

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10 minutes ago, Sparrow_Prime said:

Do you try to win all your arguments with passive agressive hostilities, instead of intelligent debate?

Considering their counterargument in a different thread against adding a separate trade chat dedicated solely to Riven mods to cut down on clutter was engaging in hyperbole about having separate a trade chat for literally every class of tradeable item I'd say probably.

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7 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

This would pretty much result in very few frames being the best at everything while the rest gets absolutely invalidated to exist other than as food for the Helminth. They even mentioned a prime example on stream for the danger of this with Desecrate. You could put Desecrate on any other frame and Nekros as well might not exist. Imagine Desecrate replacing Venari on Khora.

The fact it is limited is what shakes it up more. If the system is too open there will be always one clear best choice.

I use nekros because his summons are cool. That was initially why I bought him. If you only use nekros because you use him to farm then that's a you thing. I like having an udnead army. So I can't say that would really matter to anyone but munchkins. 

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3 minutes ago, -CoI-IAmNotMatthew said:

Yes, turn warframes into literal survivability/passive skins that you can put the best abilities on to invalidate  the vast majority of the Warframes in the game. Then I'd just put Wisp's Motes, EV, Roar and Peacemaker on my Inaros or Nidus and be totally unkillable, or, maybe change out Roar for Desecrate so I literally invalidate almost every frame in the game.

You can't do that because you can only put 1 ability on one frame, and not ultimates. Sounds like hyperbole to me. -shrug- 

I just think with the exception of the ultimate we should get to pick any 1 of a frames 3 non ultimate abilities to put on a frame. 

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Anyone that has played a game for awhile knows 

1 minute ago, Sparrow_Prime said:

You seem to be getting pretty stroppy about this. For starters, they didn't say Ults, they said signature. And secondly you're focusing too much on picking people apart for their language and not discussing the simple fact that DE promised something that would be amazingly fun and give endgame players something to get excited about, but decided against it, leaving people who can cream the content feeling a little ripped off. 

But sure. If you want to say shake it up a few more times, I'm sure people won't think any less of you. 

They made a mistake, someone latched on and couldn't let go. 

This is the equivalent of someone saying "But....but...you said..."

It happens, but the common sense has to kick in at some point. "If something is too good to be true it probably is."

A lot of random powercreep and OP things slip through the cracks and are allowed in many games, but some things are just like "Well of course no one would ever do that."

The list of abilities isn't even out yet. The forum was expected to blow up and dreams were gonna be crushed. It was just gonna happen. 

Maybe they'll allow more than we expected. No one knows.

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It is probably the ability he can donate for gameplay reasons. 90% DR is just to good as a generic skill ( with a invunerability gate to boot ). Blazing Chacran can generate energy , with once again is too good as a gemeric skill.

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb Balegrim:

I use nekros because his summons are cool. That was initially why I bought him. If you only use nekros because you sue him to farm then that's a you thing. I like having an udnead army. So I can't say that would really matter to anyone but munchkins. 

Well, it might start to matter to you once drop chances got reduced if this combo existed. But hey.

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Anyone that has played a game for awhile knows 

They made a mistake, someone latched on and couldn't let go. 

This is the equivalent of someone saying "But....but...you said..."

It happens, but the common sense has to kick in at some point. "If something is too good to be true it probably is."

A lot of random powercreep and OP things slip through the cracks and are allowed in many games, but some things are just like "Well of course no one would ever do that."

The list of abilities isn't even out yet. The forum was expected to blow up and dreams were gonna be crushed. It was just gonna happen. 

Maybe they'll allow more than we expected. No one knows.

Actually it's not about that. Picking one of any frame's 3 non-ult abilities to put on any other 1 frame is not a big deal to me. Trading out 1 power for 1 other power would let you make certain frames stronger, but have no virtual impact on most of the game. But it would be a lot cooler than relegating us to the abilities we dislike most and don't really use. 

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Well, it might start to matter to you once drop chances get reduced if this combo existed. But hey.

So if people are farming with nekros why haven't they nerfed drop chances already? My nekros can tank for hours. I don't need anything from other frames between life strike and various mods already. They don't do much for me with my 1800 armor and adaption.Like I can just play nekros already and tank, heal myself, or defend objectives because his summons draw aggro while I farm. 

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6 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

A lot of random powercreep and OP things slip through the cracks and are allowed in many games, but some things are just like "Well of course no one would ever do that."

It seems like you have convinced yourself that the game is already balanced. 

Sorry to break into you, but it's not. 

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vor 4 Minuten schrieb Balegrim:

So if people are farming with nekros why haven't they nerfed drop chances already? My nekros can tank for hours. I don't need anything between life strike and various mods from other frames already. They don't do much for me with my 1800 armor and adaption.  

Because the loot effects of those two abilities stack. If you had four Desecrate/Pilfering Strangledome Khoras in a squad you'd "double" the extra loot from four player amounts to eight player amounts in the same amount of time.

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Because the loot effects stack. If you had four Desecrate/Pilfering Strangledome Khoras in a squad you'd "double" the extra loot from four player amounts to eight player amounts in the same amount of time.

Strangledome is an ultimate. Not applicable to using any 1 of a warframes 3 NON ult abilities. And only once per frame. Unless you only play Khora. But desecrate only applies once. So in truth only 1 khora would benefit from desecrate. But really it's celestial twin I wanna see. 

Though in principle, yeah, desecrate equals only having one nekros no matter how many khoras or nekros you bring. So like 5 players tops.

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7 minutes ago, Sparrow_Prime said:

It seems like you have convinced yourself that the game is already balanced. 

Sorry to break into you, but it's not. 

This is the most unbalanced game I've ever seen....that's why I'm playing it. 

I was really upset when they added the imaginary ceiling. But I didn't come on the forums and make an emotional plea about it. 

This game has been here for how long, and some people are just discovering the most basic stuff. Like you need to go read through your own wiki for once. I already have and am waiting for everyone else to.

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9 hours ago, selig_fay said:

This is not a problem with this system. If the ability breaks the game, it will do so regardless of which frame it is on. So at this point, there's no reason to hate this system because it doesn't break the game. From the fact that strong synergies can be formed-lol, some frames already have this by default, so I don't see a problem here.

You didnt even read what I wrote, let alone what I quoted. It breaks the game from an aesthetic standpoint. Why bother reworking frames when you can just slap a better ability from another frame on top of a terrible one?

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3 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Eh, what?

Khora's strangledome is an ultimate ability. It's her 4 key. Meaning it can't be transferred. And I don't want it to be transferred. I think any frame's 1-3 abilities should be game to transfer, though. To be clearer. And you should only be able to swap out out one ability per frame. 

Stacking desecrate doesn't matter cuz it only applies to a whole group once. 

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Considering stream came first, and it was a unveiling, and said during stream nothing is final "yet".

Then the page update came second, on the Waeframe site.

Thirdly Devs on Twitter saying after Tennocon what the weeks ahead we will see a full list after its been decided.

Seems pretty transparent for a system not aimed at beginners.

Almost as transparent as the intent behind the OP's thread here.

tea gossip GIF

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vor 13 Minuten schrieb Balegrim:

Khora's strangledome is an ultimate ability. It's her 4 key. Meaning it can't be transferred. And I don't want it to be transferred. I think any frame's 1-3 abilities should be game, though. To be clearer. 

Stacking desecrate doesn't matter cuz it only applies to a whole group once. 

I read the edit from you. Yeah I had a brainfart because I thought about it as a solo player first but ended up taking a squad as example.

Nontheless it becomes five player amounts in a four man group which is 25% more and two player amounts in solo play which is 100% more and also matters somewhat since Steel Path has four player spawns in solo play now. I also never talked about Strangledome being put on other frames. No idea why you do.

Bottom line is there's some broken stuff potentially (Iron Skin, Splinter Storm, Wisp Motes etc.). That's why it's limited as it is. It's not going to change drastically if at all.

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