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Still no end game?


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In warframe end game is impossible.

Simply because we have way too mich weapon and ability variety. If you'd want to implement end hame you have to nerf and balance everything to roughly the same level but that would make the game boring and new weapons would be worthless. Same for frames since everything is balanced out.

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4 hours ago, Butterfly85 said:

Warframe is an open ended game, like Wow or Lineage 2. It will only end  when the devs call time I guess 🤷‍♀️

I guess problem is that i can destroy new content like they are nothing... at most a couple weeks and no more content.

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9 hours ago, Loza03 said:

End game is incredibly nebulous, but I would imagine at least a large chunk of people would define it as some kind of long-term system that keeps players engaged over a longer period of time, usually through a grind. Think Regeneration Grinding in Titanfall or, as crazy as it sounds, the Chao Garden.

Helminth Chrysalis could wind up serving such a role.

That's what you'd think, but then again I recently saw someone complaining that Steel Path gives rewards very slowly (hundreds of hours was floated) unless you're doing endurance runs(3 hours was floated). They then said that they were hoping that DE would have given them something that could keep them engaged over a long term. I pointed out that by mixing and matching the modes a player could self-determine how long they wanted it to take and that DE had given something that could keep them engaged for long periods but that they chose to rush through the content and were now complaining that they chose to rush through it. 

Even the people who claim to want something show by their actions that they don't actually want that. 

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40 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That's what you'd think, but then again I recently saw someone complaining that Steel Path gives rewards very slowly (hundreds of hours was floated) unless you're doing endurance runs(3 hours was floated). They then said that they were hoping that DE would have given them something that could keep them engaged over a long term. I pointed out that by mixing and matching the modes a player could self-determine how long they wanted it to take and that DE had given something that could keep them engaged for long periods but that they chose to rush through the content and were now complaining that they chose to rush through it. 

Even the people who claim to want something show by their actions that they don't actually want that. 

Like I said, incredibly nebulous.

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1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Like I said, incredibly nebulous.

Can't agree fully. It's not just a matter of the community being vague about what it is, but also about them (at least some of them) claiming to want something specific and then demonstrating repeatedly that they don't actually want what they said they want, and actively choose to avoid it. 

At some point it stops being 'ill defined' and moves toward the territory of 'flat out lie'. 🤷‍♂️

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If anything trying to chase the illusion of "endgame" is what damaged the updates before Deadlock (Liches and Railjack being primary examples) and they should just throw that garbage out or back-burner it, instead focusing on things that work within the current system in an interesting way. Tryhards will always whine and complain after they blaze through anything DE tries to do, then complain about "content drought" if DE makes another attempt. If they've set aside that illusion, then good for them.

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25 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

If anything trying to chase the illusion of "endgame" is what damaged the updates before Deadlock (Liches and Railjack being primary examples) and they should just throw that garbage out or back-burner it, instead focusing on things that work within the current system in an interesting way. Tryhards will always whine and complain after they blaze through anything DE tries to do, then complain about "content drought" if DE makes another attempt. If they've set aside that illusion, then good for them.

this is a major problem. WF players dont enjoy anything that cant be completed and conquered in more than a few weeks. Any attempt at long term gameplay has been met with mountains of complaints. Remember when focus schools were supposed to take years to complete? That didnt last long at all. Also, Arbitration and Onslaught had very very short lives as endgame for vets. 

 

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54 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

this is a major problem. WF players dont enjoy anything that cant be completed and conquered in more than a few weeks. Any attempt at long term gameplay has been met with mountains of complaints. Remember when focus schools were supposed to take years to complete? That didnt last long at all. Also, Arbitration and Onslaught had very very short lives as endgame for vets. 

To be fair... If you hide something thats suppose in the game by default (Energy Aquisition + Power Spike) behind Grind Walls... then yeah... expect complaints...

At this point I wouldnt be surprised of Heart Of Deimos adds a 6th Focus School with Universal Vacuum as one of its Passive.... even though I I have enough Shards to unlock it immediately I would still complain about it... 

 

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8 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

To be fair... If you hide something thats suppose in the game by default (Energy Aquisition + Power Spike) behind Grind Walls... then yeah... expect complaints...

At this point I wouldnt be surprised of Heart Of Deimos adds a 6th Focus School with Universal Vacuum as one of its Passive.... even though I I have enough Shards to unlock it immediately I would still complain about it... 

 

Give operators Inaros' 2nd, or the ability to spawn maggots. If we get a focus school from HoD, go all out with an infested or cannibalistic theme. 

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

Give operators Inaros' 2nd, or the ability to spawn maggots

Why ? 😮

4 minutes ago, (PS4)DoctorWho_90250 said:

If we get a focus school from HoD, go all out with an infested or cannibalistic theme. 

So we would eat other players ?

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20 hours ago, Butterfly85 said:

Warframe is an open ended game, like Wow or Lineage 2. It will only end  when the devs call time I guess 🤷‍♀️

End-game doesn't mean "the end". MMORPGs have end-games that just change every major patch/expansion.

Warframe has had multiple forms of end-game. Eidolons easily meets the requirements of end-game. Steel Path is easily something else that fits the qualities of end-game, it's just missing things like fissures, floods, etc. Warframe even has other end-game type rewards in the form of Rivens, Kuva and what ever cosmetics are tied to content aimed at geared players, it's just that most people don't care about Rivens due to how garbage the system is.

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2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

this is a major problem. WF players dont enjoy anything that cant be completed and conquered in more than a few weeks. Any attempt at long term gameplay has been met with mountains of complaints. Remember when focus schools were supposed to take years to complete? That didnt last long at all. Also, Arbitration and Onslaught had very very short lives as endgame for vets. 

 

I mean the latest example of it is Railjack where it was supposed to be a prolonged period, yet within iirc a week or two there were already maxed intrinsics. People have lost the concept of pacing in this current gen, definitely of reasonable demand, and anything outside of their own preferences as acceptable (like people complaining about mining/fishing/etc). It makes me glad to have gone through multiple prior MMO's before finding out about WF and getting pulled into it. To me Warframe needs to go back to what they seemingly have in interesting story/world-expanding aspects or reworks of older tilesets. I absolutely love Deadlock and Gas City reworks (I'd love an Invasion mission rework in the same vein but meh, that's my wants), as well as hyped for Deimos. I'd love a Tau tileset or a new area (planets, moons, etc) that just has interesting things to explore like Deimos seems to have via a new faction, characters, and enemies on an entire new planetoid. Its not trying to be "endgame", just interesting and expanding. For example: Give me arachnid nightmare fuel enemies from some new area of the world that don't need to be "endgame" just in existence as "interesting". Or even multi-stage mission types like iirc Gate Crash where its like Defense -> Spy -> Exterminate styled (its an older update event so I may completely have the wrong name); cause that shakes things up in an interesting way without resorting to "endgame" ideas.

Edited by CrimsonXX
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2 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

I mean the latest example of it is Railjack where it was supposed to be a prolonged period, yet within iirc a week or two there were already maxed intrinsics. People have lost the concept of pacing in this current gen, definitely of reasonable demand, and anything outside of their own preferences as acceptable (like people complaining about mining/fishing/etc). It makes me glad to have gone through multiple prior MMO's before finding out about WF and getting pulled into it. To me Warframe needs to go back to what they seemingly have in interesting story/world-expanding aspects or reworks of older tilesets. I absolutely love Deadlock and Gas City reworks (I'd love an Invasion mission rework in the same vein but meh, that's my wants), as well as hyped for Deimos. I'd love a Tau tileset or a new area (planets, moons, etc) that just has interesting things to explore like Deimos seems to have via a new faction, characters, and enemies on an entire new planetoid. Its not trying to be "endgame", just interesting and expanding.

Warframe is more a sandbox themepark than it is a journey to toughest content. Im fine with that. I have played enough games where the majority of it feels like busy work to get to the "real" end-game. 

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On 2020-08-01 at 9:38 PM, Silvertap said:

I was really expecting for a end game aproach in this TennoCon, i mean half of last year and this year by itself has been hard on DE, and i even watched Steve sometimes talk about it in some sort of regrett tone, wich lead me to think about DE starting to do some more safe moves insted of risk one. I mean focus on what is asked insted of trying to blow minds.

In Heart of Deimos they worked in their "confort zone" and even did more, improving machanics,adding new mechanics, and what a art work was that right? But will it try to brave through the end game waters? What do u guys think?

To be honest when i saw the mecha i thoght, i can do better with many of my setups, i mean i'm MR29 and have a bit of expience in these game, lvl 40 or 80 mobs are nothing to me. They even made possible for us to buff our frames with other frames abilities, like a need more power, now-a-days i pray for nerfs, not buff.

Don't take this topic as a (bad intentionned) criticism, i loved all TennoCon, really, art section was AMAZING!

What do u guys think, are we heading for a EndGame or not? Story for this Update sure seens solid, much more then Fortuna, but what about what people like me, that has done everything in the game really needs? Will we finaly get it? 

-----------------

-----------------

 

At this pont the topic lost its meaning, people are just talking about what End Game is, trully i don't care what it is, or telling me to change game (wtf right?). The question was pretty simple - Will we have an end game (in your opnion)? wich is officially recognized as such by players and DE. What kind of endgame trully doesn't metter, because as i see, what was put in TennoCon give me a bit of hope... I'm sorry for the rant.

 

Probably no end game until the game ends

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I really like when threads like this appear. A lot of games out there have no problem having an endgame but for some reason warframe can't have an endgame, like it's some vague term that doesn't have a definite meaning and because of that we can't have endgame.

It doesn't mean ending lol lots of online game with endgame but they're still not ending, the story is still continuous. It really is just an activity to test the highest capacity of your gears, this concept of endgame is consistent in most games but in warframe endgame is something you define on your own...like what? LMAO

Anyway, I've stopped hoping for an endgame in this game. I think majority of the vocal community and probably the devs themselves understand that warframe isn't the same with other games. It's just grind and collection and more grind and collection. So if you like to just grind and collect then warframe might be the perfect game for you. But if you want to feel as if you're working towards something big, then you gotta to look for other game.

Edited by Yxivi
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20 minutes ago, Yxivi said:

A lot of games out there have no problem having an endgame but for some reason warframe can't have an endgame, like it's some vague term that doesn't have a definite meaning and because of that we can't have endgame.

Oh but you see, that's exactly why we can't have it. Because every single time we get something that fits the definition of "end-game" people are able to pretend that it's not, and just keep parroting the word that they don't know the meaning of. 

Are eidolons not endgame? Or Orbs? 

Can better players solo all of those? Yeah, but in many games some people can solo the endgame content even though it's designed to be run as a group. Somehow in warframe that means that they're not 'endgame enough'.

Players wanted epic boss battles with enemies that weren't just bullet sponges that required we do a sequence of things to defeat them, things that require some level of skill. We got the ropalolyst. Players have to make substantial use of their parkour/advanced mobility skills to even get to the fight. Then make use of spoiler mode in highly specific ways to open the enemy to attack. Then deal damage to highly specific weak points. Then kill it. All while coming under some pretty neat attacks. Then make use of our parkour/advanced mobility on a shifting landscape to complete extraction. Sounds pretty good, right? Apparently not. A couple of weeks in and people are trashing it. 

Players said that endgame could be just higher level enemies on the same chart. So we got Steel Path. Nice simple, everyone will be cool with... There's people upset because that made the missions take longer. 

 

When the community can actually make up their collective minds about what an endgame actually involves, maybe we'll be able to get some endgame. Until then....

You're free to walk into any store and say that you want something, but you don't know what it is, and can't describe it, and it doesn't exist, and you have been in the store repeatedly asking for it, and refusing everything that you have been offered. Eventually they'll make some calls to the nice gentlemen in the white coats, who want you to put on a special jacket. 

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Didnt Sapmatic make a video about this Nebulous End Game Topic ?

 

ohoh wait... This is about Borderlands...

And I still dont understand what exactly is the point of End Game when he explains it...

The only part that made sense was the Build Diversity issue.

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48 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Oh but you see, that's exactly why we can't have it. Because every single time we get something that fits the definition of "end-game" people are able to pretend that it's not, and just keep parroting the word that they don't know the meaning of. 

Are eidolons not endgame? Or Orbs? 

Can better players solo all of those? Yeah, but in many games some people can solo the endgame content even though it's designed to be run as a group. Somehow in warframe that means that they're not 'endgame enough'.

Players wanted epic boss battles with enemies that weren't just bullet sponges that required we do a sequence of things to defeat them, things that require some level of skill. We got the ropalolyst. Players have to make substantial use of their parkour/advanced mobility skills to even get to the fight. Then make use of spoiler mode in highly specific ways to open the enemy to attack. Then deal damage to highly specific weak points. Then kill it. All while coming under some pretty neat attacks. Then make use of our parkour/advanced mobility on a shifting landscape to complete extraction. Sounds pretty good, right? Apparently not. A couple of weeks in and people are trashing it. 

Players said that endgame could be just higher level enemies on the same chart. So we got Steel Path. Nice simple, everyone will be cool with... There's people upset because that made the missions take longer. 

 

When the community can actually make up their collective minds about what an endgame actually involves, maybe we'll be able to get some endgame. Until then....

You're free to walk into any store and say that you want something, but you don't know what it is, and can't describe it, and it doesn't exist, and you have been in the store repeatedly asking for it, and refusing everything that you have been offered. Eventually they'll make some calls to the nice gentlemen in the white coats, who want you to put on a special jacket. 

The problem is those people aren't always the same people. I think everyone can agree that eidolons and orbs are the closest thing we have to traditional endgame. Over time people got stronger and stronger but you see in other games, they keep producing new activity (because we will outlevel those activities eventually), eidolons have been around for years with no update, even the loot aren't that enticing anymore once you've done it too many times.
Steel Path is well...it's good if you want enemies to take 2 shots instead of 1 shot? And they said it themselves that Steel Path is not for addressing endgame, so it should not be considered as one, it's just a harder mode of the solar chart.

Now if only they tried to produce more activities like Eidolons and add some stuff that's actually worth the effort, then maybe we'll have "close enough" endgame activities.

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"endgame" can't really exist, because it can't be the end. Let's say they bring back raids. That becomes the "endgame". But once you dominate that, then what? What is the new "endgame"? Without a competitive element, there cannot be an infinitely self-modulating part of the game that serves as high-end gameplay and entertainment. Sooner or later, you will dominate the entire game. And then there won't be "endgame" anymore, it'll just be normal game. There is no game with "endgame". Take WoW - it has dungeons, raids, pvp... but they have to release new patches every few months and new expansions every 2 years. Because the "endgame" has an end. It's not the "endgame", it is the actual game.

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3 minutes ago, PopGligor said:

"endgame" can't really exist, because it can't be the end. Let's say they bring back raids. That becomes the "endgame". But once you dominate that, then what? What is the new "endgame"? Without a competitive element, there cannot be an infinitely self-modulating part of the game that serves as high-end gameplay and entertainment. Sooner or later, you will dominate the entire game. And then there won't be "endgame" anymore, it'll just be normal game. There is no game with "endgame". Take WoW - it has dungeons, raids, pvp... but they have to release new patches every few months and new expansions every 2 years. Because the "endgame" has an end. It's not the "endgame", it is the actual game.

I think all these "End Game" threads are just excuses to get more exclusives rewards. 😐

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