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Why do people keep saying that the topic is "nebulous"?
It only requires 2 things
1. balanced around the assumption that participants have every mod leveled up and every frame/good weapons available 

2. has a reward table made up only of things those players want

A raid with bosses that consist of damage and immunity phases would work perfectly fine, as long as during the immunity phase you would have to actively do things to go into the damage phase, put some telegraphed attacks that bypass any abilities and have to be dodged, a dps check on the damage phases and some add clear requirements

Rewards could be
30k kuva
(built) forma bundle
umbra forma
3-pack of unveiled rivens
2-3k ducats
1,5k void traces (bypasses the cap)

you can only obtain 1 reward from each encounter per day or week or whatever

There, warframe now has endgame

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18 minutes ago, Eyymily said:

Why do people keep saying that the topic is "nebulous"?
It only requires 2 things
1. balanced around the assumption that participants have every mod leveled up and every frame/good weapons available 

2. has a reward table made up only of things those players want

A raid with bosses that consist of damage and immunity phases would work perfectly fine, as long as during the immunity phase you would have to actively do things to go into the damage phase, put some telegraphed attacks that bypass any abilities and have to be dodged, a dps check on the damage phases and some add clear requirements

Rewards could be
30k kuva
(built) forma bundle
umbra forma
3-pack of unveiled rivens
2-3k ducats
1,5k void traces (bypasses the cap)

you can only obtain 1 reward from each encounter per day or week or whatever

There, warframe now has endgame

Except the part where it's a terrible idea. Your reward structure alone would trivialize the game and crash the market. They'd have to severely lower that amount, or give it such a small drop chance it would enrage people.

Whatever boss it is, its armor would be stripped and killed in 2 seconds. Rinse and repeat for 50k ducats etc.

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4 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

its armor would be stripped and killed in 2 seconds

It doesnt have to have armor, just enough health and/or non-removable damage reduction on top of armor

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Rinse and repeat for 50k ducats

like i said, you can only get a one reward per encounter per day or week

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

reward structure alone would trivialize the game and crash the market

the game is already trivialized, and if crashing the market is what it takes to have rewarding content, go for it

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3 minutes ago, Eyymily said:

It doesnt have to have armor, just enough health and/or non-removable damage reduction on top of armor

like i said, you can only get a one reward per encounter per day or week

the game is already trivialized, and if crashing the market is what it takes to have rewarding content, go for it

Its not the absolute worst idea, it's a bigger version if a sortie. I don't see it being implemented when they already had raids and had to get rid of them. 

Casuals cant handle bullet sponges, so they'd cry foul when they're locked out of rewards only accessible by "elitists". 

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On 2020-08-02 at 9:38 AM, Silvertap said:

At this pont the topic lost its meaning, people are just talking about what End Game is, trully i don't care what it is, or telling me to change game (wtf right?).

I understand your confusion at people making tangents of the thread, but in order to talk about whether or not we will ever get an "endgame", we need to first define what "endgame" even means. In a video game, "endgame" could mean:

  • a high-intensity gamemode requiring team co-ordination and a long time investment per mission, such as Raids in Warframe and World of Warcraft.
  • The end of a game -- final boss, last level, such as defeating Ganon in a Legend of Zelda game.
  • or something else entirely

Personally, I think Warframe would build to the first definition, as games like this encourage continued play, so they wouldn't want a gameplay terminus, a point where the game tells you it's finished and welcomes you to stop playing it. But from there, we still have so many questions to answer and problems to consider. Here are a few:

  • If a potential endgame mode is at the top of our progression, what would be the point of continued play in that mode? How would it reward us?
    • If it's with something that makes us even stronger, it serves to trivialize lower content and eventually make the "endgame" mode even easier.
    • If it isn't with something that makes us stronger, why would we bother playing it?
  • How is a potential endgame going to challenge us?
    • If it matches or goes beyond the incredible power we can bring, would it be cheese?
    • If it negates several of the easy-button features we've collected, does that contradict the game's central theme of collecting more power?
    • If it does not match our power level, is it going to be uncompelling?
  • I'm sure there are other considerations.
On 2020-08-02 at 9:38 AM, Silvertap said:

Will we have an end game (in your opnion)? wich is officially recognized as such by players and DE. What kind of endgame trully doesn't metter

I'm genuinely curious when you say that you really want endgame, but you say you don't get why people are talking about the nature of it, and you don't even care what the "endgame" would be. Like, you're MR29, you've been all through this game, what would you like to see in a potential "endgame"?

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I like how when endgame is brought up this community acts like the idea is "nebulous" and would take some galaxy brain earth shattering intelligence to figure out, when in reality every successful online game has figured this out except warframe. 

The answer is actually really simple and use to be in the game: raids. 

Make it a boss and waves of enemy. Add a new one quarterly or semi annually so players don't overpower it and get bored. Give it a rotating loot table like sorties. Make it so you can only get rewarded weekly or daily. If a frame breaks the raid: don't let players use that frame in that raid. Yeah it sucks, but we have over 40 "classes" and plenty of mmos have limited classes that are just for vanilla play, like blue mage in ffxiv. 

We use to have this, but DE only ever made 2 so people stopped playing them, and DE saw the low playerbase and decided it wasn't worth the manpower. Problem is you can't make 1 or 2 bosses and think players will just be happy with that for years. Endgame isn't one and done in mmos or mmolites, it has to be updated periodically to keep players enticed. 

Boom. Endgame solved.

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5 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

I like how when endgame is brought up this community acts like the idea is "nebulous" and would take some galaxy brain earth shattering intelligence to figure out, when in reality every successful online game has figured this out except warframe

I cant speak for everyone but I dont think End Game requires alot if Intelligence to figure...

I simply thing its a Stupid Farce...

7 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Make it a boss and waves of enemy. Add a new one quarterly or semi annually so players don't overpower it and get bored. Give it a rotating loot table like sorties. Make it so you can only get rewarded weekly or daily. If a frame breaks the raid: don't let players use that frame in that raid. Yeah it sucks, but we have over 40 "classes" and plenty of mmos have limited classes that are just for vanilla play, like blue mage in ffxiv. 

So End Game is Content Based Power Creep ?

8 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

We use to have this, but DE only ever made 2 so people stopped playing them, and DE saw the low playerbase and decided it wasn't worth the manpower. Problem is you can't make 1 or 2 bosses and think players will just be happy with that for years. Endgame isn't one and done in mmos or mmolites, it has to be updated periodically to keep players enticed. 

Boom. Endgame solved.

This doesnt even sound like an End Game problem it sounds like Content Drought....

Sir... I Am Skeptical Of Your Intentions 🧐

 

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On 2020-08-01 at 8:38 PM, Silvertap said:

I was really expecting for a end game aproach in this TennoCon, i mean half of last year and this year by itself has been hard on DE, and i even watched Steve sometimes talk about it in some sort of regrett tone, wich lead me to think about DE starting to do some more safe moves insted of risk one. I mean focus on what is asked insted of trying to blow minds.

In Heart of Deimos they worked in their "confort zone" and even did more, improving machanics,adding new mechanics, and what a art work was that right? But will it try to brave through the end game waters? What do u guys think?

To be honest when i saw the mecha i thoght, i can do better with many of my setups, i mean i'm MR29 and have a bit of expience in these game, lvl 40 or 80 mobs are nothing to me. They even made possible for us to buff our frames with other frames abilities, like a need more power, now-a-days i pray for nerfs, not buff.

Don't take this topic as a (bad intentionned) criticism, i loved all TennoCon, really, art section was AMAZING!

What do u guys think, are we heading for a EndGame or not? Story for this Update sure seens solid, much more then Fortuna, but what about what people like me, that has done everything in the game really needs? Will we finaly get it? 

-----------------

-----------------

 

At this pont the topic lost its meaning, people are just talking about what End Game is, trully i don't care what it is, or telling me to change game (wtf right?). The question was pretty simple - Will we have an end game (in your opnion)? wich is officially recognized as such by players and DE. What kind of endgame trully doesn't metter, because as i see, what was put in TennoCon give me a bit of hope... I'm sorry for the rant.

 

The biggest problem about endgame in Warframe is that people will keep crowing about some kind of endgame, only for they themselves to not know what they want. Much like you (and this is no attack) You haven't even given an example of endgame in your opinion, and right there is where things split, because others may not have or share the same opinion. (Basing that on open paragraph, not other responses, if there are any, I will go through it at some point today.)0 I'm all for no endgame, and it looks like DE agrees for now. Endgame implies the game is finished, which it clearly isn't. Then BAM, no more new content. Why? Because it's over, that's why. I dont need an endgame to keep me playing. That's just my take on it.

Edited by (PS4)ErydisTheLucario
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5 hours ago, Yxivi said:


Now if only they tried to produce more activities like Eidolons and add some stuff that's actually worth the effort, then maybe we'll have "close enough" endgame activities.

Or they can instead put that attention towards things more interesting and open to everyone, instead of a subset of "punish me more" tryhards things. The garbage idea of "endgame" should be a side-thing not a main focus, since I'd rather enjoy interesting content than feel shut out cause of not being "tryhard" enough.

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1 minute ago, CrimsonXX said:

Or they can instead put that attention towards things more interesting and open to everyone, instead of a subset of "punish me more" tryhards things. The garbage idea of "endgame" should be a side-thing not a main focus, since I'd rather enjoy interesting content than feel shut out cause of not being "tryhard" enough.

Bro, this is literally the easiest game to play right now. If DE appealed to the casual audience any harder the enemies wouldn't have guns anymore. There's plenty of content "open for everyone" that I don't see why you need to whine about one bit of "try hard" content. Right now EVERYTHING in this #*!%ing game is for casuals that players that want some challenging content have to wait an hour in a mission, even with the addition of steel path. STFU and let us have some challenging content for once instead of jumping on your salty bandwagon. 

And trying to pursue endgame isn't "garbage," its just garbage to you. Not everything has to appeal to everyone. 

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I really don't get the constant "there's no endgame" complaints.

1 - There's a whole new hard mode that was just released in steel path, allowing you to fight souped up lvl 100/150 enemies in greater numbers and with +250% modifiers on them.

2 - They added the lich system recently, which allows you to fight lvl 100+ enemies at Rank 5 liches, including your own nemesis boss, and gives you lvl 100 nodes even on regular starchart.

3 - They have added numerous endgame-like bosses over the years, including Tridolons, Profit Taker, Exploiter Orb and Rolalolyst, plus tons of long-term systems to level and work on (Intrinsics, Focus Schools, Riven Collections , Mastery Rank).

4 - There's also daily sorties  giving you missions that go to lvl 100 with added modifiers.

5 - There's elite sanctuary onslaught ,arbitrations, both which can pretty much be run endlessly... Plus stuff like Kuva Survival, High Risk Index that you can push to a high duration for a some challenging gameplay.

6 - Finally, Warframe has always offered the ability to infinitively scale any endless mission to ridiculous enemy levels, meaning even the most hardcore players can in theory push the system to it's limits if they feel lilke it.

So yeah, there might not be an "endgame system" , but there's tons of endgame-like activities a veteran can pursue on a daily basis if he wants to test his arsenal.

Edited by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra
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I dont think the story is at a point that "end game" is appropriate. They have the potential for so much more lore and world building events that i imagine if "end game" content was announced people like you would still complain it wasnt "end game" enough. 

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44 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

Bro, this is literally the easiest game to play right now. If DE appealed to the casual audience any harder the enemies wouldn't have guns anymore. There's plenty of content "open for everyone" that I don't see why you need to whine about one bit of "try hard" content. Right now EVERYTHING in this #*!%ing game is for casuals that players that want some challenging content have to wait an hour in a mission, even with the addition of steel path. STFU and let us have some challenging content for once instead of jumping on your salty bandwagon. 

And trying to pursue endgame isn't "garbage," its just garbage to you. Not everything has to appeal to everyone. 

To start with: for some, not everyone and on top of that there's solo'ers that have that much more put onto them (and don't even try the "its a co-op game" or whatever as that doesn't change that some of us prefer solo-ing and not interacting with randos). I specifically stated that if its a side-thing, then I really don't care about it; but that the main core shouldn't be focused on that nor have significant resources put towards it. Actually how about YOU STFU and stop trying to push garbage that led to a string of let's go with "problematic" updates (Liches, Railjack, Scarlet Spear). Hell you even demonstrate the complete unsustainability of trying to appease tryhards via dismissal of Steel Path, which while not "endgame" is meant to be harder content for those wanting it; yet you're already done with it and expecting another thing like it. You're entitled tryhards that want the game to appease you and to hell with everyone else. I started Warframe back when even in the tutorial mission you could end up being pushed to rage-quitting, because it was too high a threshold via being killed and burning through all your revives. I sure as hell will stand against the main game ever returning back towards that, because of tryhards. Take your "punish me more" tryhard b.s. to Nioh, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc where the game will beat you into the ground and you'll enjoy it cause you get off on that. I'll take new interesting things like what Heart of Deimos showed that hopefully are geared towards everyone and not tryhards.

A section of a game barring everyone but a select few who like to be punished and has led to updates that weren't top-tier = garbage.

Edited by CrimsonXX
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6 hours ago, Yxivi said:

Now if only they tried to produce more activities like Eidolons and add some stuff that's actually worth the effort, then maybe we'll have "close enough" endgame activities.

Lesse here, there's the Orbs, and we're still waiting for one of those, there's the Ropalolyst too. 

So we got those, now what's this about making it "worth the effort" part about? You're not just angling for a reason to ask for even more rewards, are you? 

tenor.gif

Edited by (PS4)guzmantt1977
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Endgame bosses are bullet sponges. Warframe players rally against that...remember The Wolf drama?

The first Eidolon has all of the mechanics of end game. Warframe has since progressed well past that with two more, and two orb spiders with different mechanics. Now, there's hard mode with those bosses. While a few say they were easy at first, most players still struggle.

DE could've easily spiked the ehp and capped max damage of the eidolons and orbs but, instead, they're more focused on progression and expansion. Personally, I wouldn't mind fighting a higher leveled tridolon with damage caps. That would immediately eliminate the toxicity but pitchforks would come out too. Lol!

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13 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

I'll take new interesting things like what Heart of Deimos showed that hopefully are geared towards everyone and not tryhards.

I hope so... 

Fortuna is annoyingly Inaccessible. 

Id be pissed if whatever new Syndicate they have on Deimos requires you to Reach Rank 5 before you unlock the ability to Sacrifice Warframes for their Abilities.

8 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So we got those, now what's this about making it "worth the effort" part about? You're not just angling for a reason to ask for even more rewards, are you? 

tenor.gif

He is... They All Are...

Well not all of them... some players are satisfied with The Steel Path as is.... 

Some people have Profit Taker as their Favourite Boss 😮 !!!

9 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Endgame bosses are bullet sponges. Warframe players rally against that...remember The Wolf drama?

I remember very well 😞

i think I ever only killed him 3 Times by myself....

 

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17 minutes ago, CrimsonXX said:

To start with: for some, not everyone and on top of that there's solo'ers that have that much more put onto them (and don't even try the "its a co-op game" or whatever as that doesn't change that some of us prefer solo-ing and not interacting with randos). I specifically stated that if its a side-thing, then I really don't care about it; but that the main core shouldn't be focused on that nor have significant resources put towards it. Actually how about YOU STFU and stop trying to push garbage that led to a string of let's go with "problematic" updates (Liches, Railjack, Scarlet Spear). Hell you even demonstrate the complete unsustainability of trying to appease tryhards via dismissal of Steel Path, which while not "endgame" is meant to be harder content for those wanting it; yet you're already done with it and expecting another thing like it. You're entitled tryhards that want the game to appease you and to hell with everyone else. I started Warframe back when even in the tutorial mission you could end up being pushed to rage-quitting, because it was too high a threshold via being killed and burning through all your revives. I sure as hell will stand against the main game ever returning back towards that, because of tryhards. Take your "punish me more" tryhard b.s. to Nioh, Dark Souls, Bloodborne, etc where the game will beat you into the ground and you'll enjoy it cause you get off on that. I'll take new interesting things like what Heart of Deimos showed that hopefully are geared towards everyone and not tryhards.

A section of a game barring everyone but a select few who like to be punished and has led to updates that weren't top-tier = garbage.

Railjack and scarlet spear had nothing to do with "endgame" that people have been asking for. And DE even admitted that steel path wasn't endgame, and my point about that was the rewards are lack luster, one and done, and you still need to be in a mission for hours before you can get to enemies that might make you sweat.

All I'm asking for is something on par to raids, which every mmo has, which this game USED to have till DE abandon it like every bit of content island they produce. But you can't make raids or "endgame content" with some bit of reward that casuals might miss out of, like arcanes USED to be. Its as simple as that, if you don't want to do the "endgame" or "tryhard" content then you don't deserve the rewards. 

But this community is so entitled that anytime challenging content comes out with worthwhile rewards, like raids or pre-nerf arbitrations or steel path, they demand either the rewards be lackluster or a "side piece" or their FOMO will make them cry out in rage. 

The game is PLENTY casual. There is thousands of hours for "everyone" to enjoy that adding one bit of content like raids with rotating rewards like the sortie drop table can exist without the casual audience missing out, if DE would just stop focusing 100% of their attention on casuals and take a minute to give vets something worthwhile. 

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Honestly End game is a bad use of development tme any way.

People playing 'end game' content [here after refferd to as EGC because I'm gonna be typing a lot and just cannot be bothered] have less reason than new players to buy plat, because not only will they have had ample opportunity by that time to have bought any single purchase items like cosmetics they might want, but have better means to gain plan via trade in primes and rivens than new players.

and EGC does not help you get people to play or to stay around long enough to spend plat. No, EGC serves to appease by definition a small minority of players, and because the content they demand is so high power, takes longer to develop properly because it has to be smarter and more dynamic not just bigger numbers (See Steel Path as an example of trying to do things quickly).

No, to get new players in you have to get media talking about it, you have to present a good core gameplay loop, you need people to find their feet fast. Demos, is just the kind of eye catching achivable-as-an-asperation content gaming websites love to talk about and that can lure new blood in. We'd still want a better look at holistic balance than DE want to give, and better tutorials than they seem able to provide. But ignoring endgame in favour of new shiny things to get people talking about the game? makes perfect sense on a pure development hours to money earned metric.

If an endgame player stops playing? You probably sucked them dry of as much cash as you were ever going to get. If a new player stops playing? Thats money you are not getting.

I could always tell an MMO was dying when the starter zones were empty and the end game ones were bursting at the seams, with the developers chasing the wallets of a steadily dwindling pool of jaded old-timers.

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15 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

Endgame bosses are bullet sponges. Warframe players rally against that...remember The Wolf drama?

The first Eidolon has all of the mechanics of end game. Warframe has since progressed well past that with two more, and two orb spiders with different mechanics. Now, there's hard mode with those bosses. While a few say they were easy at first, most players still struggle.

DE could've easily spiked the ehp and capped max damage of the eidolons and orbs but, instead, they're more focused on progression and expansion. Personally, I wouldn't mind fighting a higher leveled tridolon with damage caps. That would immediately eliminate the toxicity but pitchforks would come out too. Lol!

I would agree that eidolons could be endgame IF they weren't locked behind the day/night cycle, only available for 50 minutes at at time, and haven't been updated for 2 years.

Problem with endgame in MMOs is that is has to be updated. You can't make a single boss and move on. That's why online games have seasons and new raids every 6 months, or else players will steamroll the content and move on. The issue with DE is they want to make one boss and move on and chase the new shiny piece of content without looking back. 

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7 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

 

I remember very well 😞

i think I ever only killed him 3 Times by myself....

 

He really wasn't as bad as people were claiming. Most annoying part was players running from the fight and causing host migration, especially when they could have just asked if anyone in the group was kitted out for wolf hunting and just stayed out of his way. 

I remember one brave Tenno who was lower level and not equipped, getting host and dropping a bunch of spectres. That guy was awesome. Kept the wolf tied up long enough for me to get back in, and the spectres served as distractions during the fight. 

GG for him. 

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5 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

their FOMO will make them cry out in rage. 

Yep... I will so this and I wont feel even remotely bad about it.

6 minutes ago, BernieBlack said:

I would agree that eidolons could be endgame IF they weren't locked behind the day/night cycle, only available for 50 minutes at at time, and haven't been updated for 2 years.

Problem with endgame in MMOs is that is has to be updated. You can't make a single boss and move on. That's why online games have seasons and new raids every 6 months, or else players will steamroll the content and move on. The issue with DE is they want to make one boss and move on and chase the new shiny piece of content without looking back. 

You do realise your version of "End Game" has a Text Book Power Creep problem ?

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2 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yep... I will so this and I wont feel even remotely bad about it.

You do realise your version of "End Game" has a Text Book Power Creep problem ?

You realize this game IS power creep and has had a power creep problem for a long time, and its about to get a lot worse with Helminth. That isn't a problem though, every game is going to have power creep because every game evolves. The problem is the enemies don't keep up our power creep so there's no outlet for all our new mods and weapons and rivens. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Yep... I will so this and I wont feel even remotely bad about it.

Because you're an entitled S#&$ ruining this game, and your degree of selfishness is honestly mind blowing. You want every piece of gear then stop being a coward and do the content. This game can't last on casual farming forever, as proven by the dwindling numbers and the sellout to tencent. 

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