Still no end game?

[killerJoke66]

23 hours ago, BernieBlack said:

This game can't last on casual farming forever, as proven by the dwindling numbers and the sellout to tencent. 

  The funny thing is that it could be long lasting cash-grab strategy if and if only they were to implement new player experience overhaul couple years ago ... before they getting sold that is.

  Each and every time they watered down the game whether it was fortuna enemies or arbitrations or other things i was cringing inside because you know whats gonna happen when someone hears a big expansion in warframe (like fortuna as a past  example) and wants to try this game out theyre gonna get absolutely mind-cluster gimped with how things work and how shattered the information is even through finding your way through wf wiki by some player's mention , you KNOW whats gonna be going in their heads before even touching that new expansion , and thus here we are with the consequencies , de being sold to a different parent company and finally after multilple years of nothing we get new player experience overhaul.

[BloodKitten]

end game, reach room 100 in elite sanctuary onslought.

[GEN-Son_17]

You know what's strange? This end game talk has been going on for YEARS and usually follows with players insisting the game is going to die without it or the playerbase is dying, etc. About 5 YEARS later, the game just finished another TennoCon and added worlds more content just 7 months in the year. I honestly think the end game crowd has become the toothless chihuahua barking behind a bullhorn. Keep up the pressure for sure but please change the approach. It's getting old and, without a LOGICAL idea that doesn't require completely changing the game or its current balance, it's equally pointless and selfish. It's simple:

1) Don't create a method that requires a complete overhaul. I wouldn't want to completely change my 8 year running game just because you enjoyed it for years and now you finally don't.

2) Stop self defeating yourselves by eliminating every other MMO's raid mechanics like bullet sponges, time gaps and damage caps. Something's got to give and, no, DE should've have to also reinvent that wheel either.

3) Form a sub group and get your heads together on what the hell a "meaningful reward" should be for your efforts. Figure it out so DE doesn't have to keep guessing incorrectly because even you don't know.

4) Stop arguing semantics and stop listening to youtubers. They are politicians fetching views and money. Everyone recognizes their rhetoric. How do YOU want your endgame? 

[Lutesque]

3 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

You know what's strange? This end game talk has been going on for YEARS and usually follows with players insisting the game is going to die without it or the playerbase is dying, etc. About 5 YEARS later, the game just finished another TennoCon and added worlds more content just 7 months in the year. I honestly think the end game crowd has become the toothless chihuahua barking behind a bullhorn. Keep up the pressure for sure but please change the approach. It's getting old and, without a LOGICAL idea that doesn't require completely changing the game or its current balance, it's equally pointless and selfish. 

They want the game to die because it would satisfy their Fragile Little Egos 😛 !!!

Poor Bastards....

 

[DeccanTraps]

27 minutes ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

You know what's strange? This end game talk has been going on for YEARS and usually follows with players insisting the game is going to die without it or the playerbase is dying, etc. About 5 YEARS later, the game just finished another TennoCon and added worlds more content just 7 months in the year. I honestly think the end game crowd has become the toothless chihuahua barking behind a bullhorn. Keep up the pressure for sure but please change the approach. It's getting old and, without a LOGICAL idea that doesn't require completely changing the game or its current balance, it's equally pointless and selfish. It's simple:

1) Don't create a method that requires a complete overhaul. I wouldn't want to completely change my 8 year running game just because you enjoyed it for years and now you finally don't.

2) Stop self defeating yourselves by eliminating every other MMO's raid mechanics like bullet sponges, time gaps and damage caps. Something's got to give and, no, DE should've have to also reinvent that wheel either.

3) Form a sub group and get your heads together on what the hell a "meaningful reward" should be for your efforts. Figure it out so DE doesn't have to keep guessing incorrectly because even you don't know.

4) Stop arguing semantics and stop listening to youtubers. They are politicians fetching views and money. Everyone recognizes their rhetoric. How do YOU want your endgame? 

5) accept that the game is more important to you, than any specific singular 'you' is to the game. Para social relationships and seeking validation via in game accomplishments are bad for you.

[killerJoke66]

17 hours ago, GEN-Son_17 said:

You know what's strange? This end game talk has been going on for YEARS and usually follows with players insisting the game is going to die without it or the playerbase is dying, etc. About 5 YEARS later, the game just finished another TennoCon and added worlds more content just 7 months in the year. I honestly think the end game crowd has become the toothless chihuahua barking behind a bullhorn. Keep up the pressure for sure but please change the approach. It's getting old and, without a LOGICAL idea that doesn't require completely changing the game or its current balance, it's equally pointless and selfish. It's simple:

1) Don't create a method that requires a complete overhaul. I wouldn't want to completely change my 8 year running game just because you enjoyed it for years and now you finally don't.

2) Stop self defeating yourselves by eliminating every other MMO's raid mechanics like bullet sponges, time gaps and damage caps. Something's got to give and, no, DE should've have to also reinvent that wheel either.

3) Form a sub group and get your heads together on what the hell a "meaningful reward" should be for your efforts. Figure it out so DE doesn't have to keep guessing incorrectly because even you don't know.

4) Stop arguing semantics and stop listening to youtubers. They are politicians fetching views and money. Everyone recognizes their rhetoric. How do YOU want your endgame? 

You have some solid arguments , especially the first 2 . That being said , what do those players mean by 'game is dying ' or 'game will end if DE dont this and this etc.' is that game wouldnt simply just die in a seconds in and hour in a day or week or month slowly but gradually through the game's own unincentivizing rewards to big but unpolished updates to padding out the grind with already existing content (reskinning weapons and whatnot and no i dont mean deimos update , for that occasion we will have to wait) , it wears out invested players , again slowly 

Theyre finally doing something about the new player experience , so thats a very good step in the right direction , also im not one of those 'elites' that demand everything to be endgame-related , i just feel genuinely feel bad about the overall wide -range of players' experience beginners to casuals to vets etc. , so when the new player experience will get improved itll be a positive net for me , and hopefully it will reduce the amount of mr3's leaving the game outright . 

Also i'm down for a community poll for endgame alternatives but when its decided it should be updated at the very least in between 6 months. and personally i dont mind nerfs unless they dont buff subpar weapons and frames to be near average *cough hydroid* 

[Murox]

Endgame is waiting for events you missed (like the COVID Comet) to happen again.

[killerJoke66]

also warframe one or the other way wont ever die , because whether or not we have balanced gameplay or grind one can simply do fashionframe with friends and doing big flashy jumpy moves will always attract some people or retain them regardless , so in a way they designed their game well , also people dont just leave period they can back when there a new big update so .. sure they can be lazy and not improve but is that what is g o o d in its core , the game we used to get thrill about when doing natah , second dream and war within quests or doing the star chart waiting to come whats next suprise yada yada .. for a long time we havent gotten into a big lore related quest like that , sure i guess its easy to throw out some deluxe skins and whatnot but .. is it okay for warframe to be like that , i cant say okay to that personally.

(edit ; railjack and ropaplyst fight yes yes but doesnt have the story progression like the big old lore quests and i dont mean by just lore , you can factor in new frames not getting quests either , they just gave us leverian and be done with it , last time it was revenant or smtg when we had a proper frame lore quest )

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

On 2020-08-01 at 7:13 PM, DrivaMain said:

Endgame discussion has no endpoint that even the devs consider it to be “nebulous”. Warframe is a game that you decide your endgame.

I guess that’s kind of a fair point but it would be nice to have something like raids or co op forced after you complete your grinds then it gives the player want and need to stay.

[DrivaMain]

7 minutes ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

I guess that’s kind of a fair point but it would be nice to have something like raids or co op forced after you complete your grinds then it gives the player want and need to stay.

“Forced CO-OP”. I am sorry that doesn’t work here, Solo players have a large voice in this game. Anything that smells CO-OP comes out they will shoot it down or act with their wallets.

[kevoisvevo]

endgame: destiny 2

[Kimimoto]

On 2020-08-01 at 9:44 PM, pook-pook said:

You need to more clearly define what you believe an end game is.

Not really, whatever uses all this power progression that's not used for anything at the moment

[(NSW)Kirbys-Epic-Yarn]

2 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

“Forced CO-OP”. I am sorry that doesn’t work here, Solo players have a large voice in this game. Anything that smells CO-OP comes out they will shoot it down or act with their wallets.

So how does this stop solo players from Doing the regular pve. I mean pvp is still in the game tho. Plus warframe requires an internet connection so is forced online from the start.

[DrivaMain]

14 minutes ago, (NSW)JJA209 said:

So how does this stop solo players from Doing the regular pve. I mean pvp is still in the game tho. Plus warframe requires an internet connection so is forced online from the start.

Online does not always mean multiplayer or CO-OP. Online solo matchmaking exist.

Adding forced CO-OP content locks out solo players because they are forced to group up or can't play if they want to do that type of content and we all know forced CO-OP content attracts toxicity and elitism. They are also paying customers. If a new content locks them out they will complain why their money is being used to develop an update they can't even access.

 

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

we all know forced CO-OP content attracts toxicity and elitism.

I think most content in gaming attracts those things to be fair.

There could be a game where the only objective is to happily frolic in fields of flowers and people would still find ways to be elitist over it.

[DrivaMain]

Just now, Aldain said:

I think most content in gaming attracts those things to be fair.

There could be a game where the only objective is to happily frolic in fields of flowers and people would still find ways to be elitist over it.

Well yes, but contents like raids, hardcore dungeons, etc attract a higher dose. We already see this in Eidolon Hunting recruit chat or 5x3 squads in general... this is why I rarely do 5x3 these days. So many high dose of toxicity.

[Aldain]

Just now, DrivaMain said:

Well yes, but contents like raids, hardcore dungeons, etc attract a higher dose. We already see this in Eidolon Hunting recruit chat or 5x3 squads in general... this is why I rarely do 5x3 these days. So many high dose of toxicity.

Honestly with Eidolons I think the "time limit" with the day/night cycle causes most of the issues.

Since people want to cram as many in as possible you have that super tryhard push to grind them out which creates the cycle.

You'd see much less of a response if people weren't stuck on such a tight window I'd hazard...not none at all, but less.

[Yakhul]

End game is floof collecting and ikeaframe.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

On 2020-08-02 at 7:23 AM, (XB1)Salty Ginger said:

How about a couple more open worlds

If deimos is better than the other two? Sure. If it sucks as bad as the other two? Hell no.

[(PSN)Yggranya]

2 hours ago, Aldain said:

I think most content in gaming attracts those things to be fair.

There could be a game where the only objective is to happily frolic in fields of flowers and people would still find ways to be elitist over it.

Only in COOP, so the less it gets shoved on people, the better. If everything was designed for solo play, there would be no problem. You might say "but then no one plays multiplayer." but that just proves that the only reason people do it, is that the "cooperation" is forced. No "elitism" in solo play, except maybe they would bring it here on the forums. In fact, they propably would bring it here.

[Felsagger]

Let us corner the problem with clean definitions. 

Endgame: Skill testing, gear checking, extrinsic game play activity centered on performance, endurance, tactics and execution.

Endgame demands the approach of Sekiro, Dark Soul series, Blood Borne, Daemon souls approach. The boss can regenerate their weapon load out, can regenerate shields and health and if the player stops attacking the boss can perform specials that requires dodging skills. Some attacks may be parried but other attacks are inevitable. In any fight by definition, is an act of attrition. Exchanging blows even of those blows where blocked, consumes health, armor and shields. Should this be the way to design video games? No this should be a difficulty settings. Common standard define the same bosses with lower rates of regeneration keeping all of his attacks intact with the same spam ratio. 

Endgame should provide boss fights where the player learns the value of strategy tactics and plan. Endgame bosses should beat that snowflake tenno's ass more often so he/she stops being insolent, arrogant and entitled. Of course this should be settled optionally by the player in a difficulty setting that provides challenge and top performance. 

The quality of any game is the replay value in it. There are good players and there are bad players. We have to accept this as a reality. Endgame separates the two teams because endgame requires a large skill set, tool kit, gear and thinking that not everybody has. The game War Frame is designed around the accommodation for the worst player possible. This should not be the norm or the standard for any video game. Good players must define the parameters for the good players. The rest of the players who wants other ways of fun may provide contributions on other parts of the game that are not intended as performance. 

Endgame pursue the four p: position, preservation, preference and priority. Endgame seek better enemy AI that hampers warframe powers completely. Makes the player aim, move and preserve their shields. Some enemies has perks that blocks the ability of frames regenerate their shields and their health. 

Comments on the subject:

Somehow DE should get naughty and beat their tenno's pussy ass more often so these players get good at the game more often when the player selects the hard setting. Yes, DE wants all of them as clients around an RNG GAAS F2P market. DE feeds their placebo providing insane power that reduces the skill of aiming, parkour moving or in short an oversimplification of the instrumentality of the game. These weak ass players should not have a say in what endgame should be or even pretend to define endgame parameters. These toddlers needs heavy spanking so they drop that ego of believing that their play style is good when is not. 

Yes fun should be accessible to every player despite if he's the worst or the best player however endgame is an activity of competition and performance. It should be there for people who seek it. Society is skill based professional defined performance designed. This is the very basics of any society that exists on this planet. Games should follow the same rule. If we don't want such scheme then there is Roblox, Minecraft or many other games available for the player who wants a social experience. Even Overwatch has lobbies dedicated to chatting without competition. 

Boss fight confrontations:

One of the best confrontations that I had was Vay Hek with regenerative shields and health. That demanded an insane amount of continuous damage output of the player. Such example is a good game designed boss. If the player stops attacking the boss, the boss regenerates. 

Boss fights in Sekiro, Dark Souls series, Daemon Souls, Blood Borne has stages of evolution in them. Their perks in their library of attacks increases in numbers. Similar to Warframes these bosses opens more abilities that can be chained in combos. Their library has attacks that can be graphed, attacks without warning and inevitable harmful attacks that provides small windows of reaction time. 

Boss fights should provide non telegraphed attacks, element of surprise, no warning shots and unexpected addition of another boss with the same skill. For example two exploiter orbs firing all the cylinders without any hesitation and at the same time packs of seven hyena packs charging in formation while this happens. 

Boss fights should provide the feeling of the swarm and unstructured attack patterns of enemy swarms. Such opportunity is missed in this game. Bigger drones, flying enemies and carriers should have the opportunity to become bosses. . 

 

 

[Ikyr0]

On 2020-08-04 at 5:27 PM, GEN-Son_17 said:

You know what's strange? This end game talk has been going on for YEARS and usually follows with players insisting the game is going to die without it or the playerbase is dying, etc. About 5 YEARS later, the game just finished another TennoCon and added worlds more content just 7 months in the year. I honestly think the end game crowd has become the toothless chihuahua barking behind a bullhorn.

So the REALLY interesting bit is that the game WAS dying, or put differently, retention was very poor as demonstrated by Steam stats...until DE started balancing the game and adding endgame-type activities. I distinctly remember Scott and Rebecca scoffing at "bitter vets" until one day, the players suddenly started getting large balance changes and endgame activities. This was during a big lull after Fortuna, when the numbers kept dropping, and many players had nothing left to do.

Players started coming back with the large balance rework earlier in the year, RJ rework, and to an extent liches. People came back for Steel Path. Whether these activities deliver as "endgame" or not remains to be seen...but without these types of activities as well as balancing, retention will be very poor.

Look at what people are most excited about with Deimos. It's the Helminth system, which is an endgame-type activity. If DE chose not to listen to vets, and the stats over the last 2 yrs, WF would have continued to go downhill, as it has been for a number of years. You are quite ignorant to think that the crowd begging for endgame activities had no role to play in the game you are enjoying now.

[Ikyr0]

3 hours ago, Yakhul said:

End game is floof collecting and ikeaframe.

Don't forget getting married, fan art, and fashion frame.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

8 hours ago, DrivaMain said:

“Forced CO-OP”. I am sorry that doesn’t work here, Solo players have a large voice in this game. Anything that smells CO-OP comes out they will shoot it down or act with their wallets.

It's a catchphrase that some people are intent on making a thing for some reason. It doesn't matter how many times we point out that it doesn't exist. It doesn't matter that people often  find ways to duo or solo endgame content in other games. 

I'm figuring some YouTuber ranted about it at some point, and now we have people waving the pitchforks. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

It's a catchphrase that some people are intent on making a thing for some reason. It doesn't matter how many times we point out that it doesn't exist. It doesn't matter that people often  find ways to duo or solo endgame content in other games. 

I'm figuring some YouTuber ranted about it at some point, and now we have people waving the pitchforks. 

Eh, some people legit have bad internet connections.  Some people, like me, just don't like the all too prevalent "GO GO GO GO!" attitude PuGs all too often have.  Sure, let's load up this third person shooter then proceed to do anything but shoot bad guys in the name of speed and efficiency.

And since solo players make up a fairly large portion of DE's player base, they have a vested interest in making sure solo players are not (soft) locked out of any meaningful content.