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Is subsuming a warframe any different than what Alad V does for his Zanuka project?


Kethus

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The Warframes Alad is dissecting are still connected to the Tenno. It should also be noted that Tenno feel pain through transference.

 

There's some question about what Helminth is doing. Alad V is, definitively, forcing people to undergo the exact sensation of what it's like to be vivisected alive without anesthesia.

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Gonna point out a thing about the writing of the Tenno. Gonna be a jerk about it.

 

Yeah.

 

 

 

Listen, prior to 2016, DE had no problem writing the Tenno as being pretty morally ambiguous. All the snippets of lore basically said "Guess what, you amnesiac mass murderers? The state of the system is your fault. All this 'master of the gun and blade' thing did was let you make things worse, huh? How 'bout that?"

Then, the Second Dream. Ever since the Second Dream, DE have been very reluctant to write the Tenno as being truly morally ambiguous or morally problematic, because now we can see their precious faces uwu. The closest we came was in The War Within, which acknowledged that many of the Tenno killed their parents aboard the Zariman Ten Zero.

 

 

See, this is why I was always an advocate of an interpretation which would have gone like this: face of a child, memories of a centuries old killer. That would have been cool. Little pubescent voices calmly discussing the merits of one blade or another for mass slaughter. Lean into the monstrosity.

 

Alack, no. Baby faced space superheroes.

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Whether either are bad to the frame or not really depends on if the frames themselves are actually alive/sentient or not. As when your frame breaks the War at the end of Second Dream it doesn't seem clear if the frame is acting on its own or was the result of your operator managing to utilize remote transference without realizing.

If they aren't "alive" then neither seem like they would be bad for the frame outside of Alad having stolen the frames which may be connected to Tenno still in their Second Dream (which who knows what happens to them in that state).

If they are alive then what Helminth does could be better than what Alad does if it say kills the frame first or just makes them unable to feel anything during the process. Or if it is a more violent act it may just be destroying the Transference Bolt inside the frame thus severing it completely from any Tenno which could be just as bad or even worse than what Alad does.

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Depends. Alad V's experiment is run before the events of Second dream. So we can assume that he was experimenting not only on warframes, but also on tenno trapped in them via transference without ability to escape. Probably experiencing all the pain of being dismembered alive, and then getting shut in their transference coffers until the second dream, without any contact with outside world whatsoever. Fun.

We're throwing empty warframes though into the subsume. And there is an off chance Alad run his experiments on empty frames too (it's slightly implied that Valk was in umbral mode when captured by Corpus). Then it's really no different.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb trst:

Whether either are bad to the frame or not really depends on if the frames themselves are actually alive/sentient or not. As when your frame breaks the War at the end of Second Dream it doesn't seem clear if the frame is acting on its own or was the result of your operator managing to utilize remote transference without realizing.

If they aren't "alive" then neither seem like they would be bad for the frame outside of Alad having stolen the frames which may be connected to Tenno still in their Second Dream (which who knows what happens to them in that state).

If they are alive then what Helminth does could be better than what Alad does if it say kills the frame first or just makes them unable to feel anything during the process. Or if it is a more violent act it may just be destroying the Transference Bolt inside the frame thus severing it completely from any Tenno which could be just as bad or even worse than what Alad does.

One thing that bothers me with this mostly is The War Within when your Operator says "I need ot get my Warframe", it sounds personal and all, if tehy are truely just items, why not build a new one? We have the Blueprints and all. This si why gamepaly and Lore should never be mixed to much and needsa clear separation.

Personally i feel put off by this, they finally make something with Helmith and it turns into a resource sink.

The storytelling had it's peeks with Second Dream and War Within, now it is content without context and poorly explained at best, while older things get shoved aside and forgotten, wonder how long this will stay relevant till DE ignores its existence awell too. They admitted in older devstreams even that they FORGOT the allignment system, this is the sad state of this game.

As much i love the game and DE being far better then other companys and games, they turn down dark roads, there once fancy cinematics showing actual gameplay turned int oevery generic Triple A trailer to be fance but not show what you can do, look at the supposed new intro with Duvari Paradox, with  that blind child etc, Mag holdign bullets of? That exampel is what the games turns into, showing fance effects without context, this si how i see it.

This is my personal opinion and if i sound offensice i excuse myself, i not want to insutl anybody, i love DE but they have a big problem of staying unfocused, nto focusing on anything for to long and moving to the "next big thing".

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I suppose it's like reattaching your body to a wall of your own stem cells, being slowly reabsorbed and repurposed. It isn't known yet if the process is painful for the Warframe, even though the Helminth's stings were pretty apparent in how much pain they inflict.

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9 минут назад, Marine027 сказал:

One thing that bothers me with this mostly is The War Within when your Operator says "I need ot get my Warframe", it sounds personal and all, if tehy are truely just items, why not build a new one?

Because even operator doesn't want to re-grind Harrow and then put 6 formas into him from scratch.

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26 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

See, this is why I was always an advocate of an interpretation which would have gone like this: face of a child, memories of a centuries old killer. That would have been cool. Little pubescent voices calmly discussing the merits of one blade or another for mass slaughter. Lean into the monstrosity.

Oh, that would have been SO MUCH better that what we have.

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40 minutes ago, trst said:

Whether either are bad to the frame or not really depends on if the frames themselves are actually alive/sentient or not. As when your frame breaks the War at the end of Second Dream it doesn't seem clear if the frame is acting on its own or was the result of your operator managing to utilize remote transference without realizing.

I may have missed something, but it seemed like the Necramech in the preview was being controlled through local transference without the aid of a somatic chamber, which would support this theory.

Alternatively, there was another player in the fight against the Stalker at the moment the War broke. It seems oddly specific that the frame would try to break War instead of pulling it out and going to town on the Stalker, the frame seemed to know exactly what to do to incapacitate Hunhow, which leads me to believe it was actually Natah that controlled the player's frame at that moment.

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2 hours ago, Kethus said:

ODdufUB.png

I'm not sure what to think about this. Warframes are built in the foundry, but so is Umbra. And remember who broke War in half. I definitely see warframes as people in-universe.

It is more LEWD 

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It's pretty messed up, yeah. The entire quest-line concerning Umbra, Ballas, and Alad V seem to pain us as absolute hypocrites. I'm not sure how DE is going to spin this system to make any kind of sense with the storylines and themes they've established up to this point. It seems like a straight heel turn into evil. 

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2 hours ago, Kethus said:

ODdufUB.png

I'm not sure what to think about this. Warframes are built in the foundry, but so is Umbra. And remember who broke War in half. I definitely see warframes as people in-universe.

warframes are not people they are just copys and the motive that umbra has memory is because kuva and orokin tablet that reformated ordis

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Gerade eben schrieb Acos:

It's pretty messed up, yeah. The entire quest-line concerning Umbra, Ballas, and Alad V seem to pain us as absolute hypocrites. I'm not sure how DE is going to spin this system to make any kind of sense with the storylines and themes they've established up to this point. It seems like a straight heel turn into evil. 

I fear they won't and jsut toll with it story wise, here is your upgrade system, now move along, i mean think about it, how did Lich and Railajck got introduced, Railajck supposed old warships, made out of paper apperently, while Lichs just happen to be chosen, but non of those have any effect on the world itself, Syndicats are better implanted i say then those new things, i fear this will be soon forgotten and moved ot the next project once again.

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