The Revenant Rework

[selig_fay]

Just now, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Zombies aren’t vampires. There’s a reason they are called zombies and not vampires. It’s because they are 2 very different things. Just because something is undead does not automatically make it a vampire.

The modern conception of the zombie owes itself almost entirely to George A. Romero's 1968 film Night of the Living Dead.^[1][60][61] In his films, Romero "bred the zombie with the vampire, and what he got was the hybrid vigour of a ghoulish plague monster".[62] This entailed an apocalyptic vision of monsters that have come to be known as Romero zombies.

xD

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But what abilities arent eidolon themed?

1. Controls lesser beings, eidolons control voms to help them.

2. Meh well, yeah maybe not spot on eidolon themed, though it could easily be a stand in for the unique eidolon shields.

3. Voms use a similar skill, Voms on the plains are eidolons as their name indicates. Large eidolons can also teleport across the whole map.

4. Same lightshow as one of the eidolons use. It is more or less identical, the difference is it comes directly from Revs hands and not from a floating flatform.

It is actually harder to find any specific vampire theme in the skills, even though all of them except #4 fit in on a generic vampire concept with enthrallment, bedazzlement/mesmerization and mist movement. Though those things are shared with other creatures aswell that fall under the revenant monicer, so they more just fit his name and not vampires specifically.

And when did anyone say it was named after the painting?

Vomvalysts are sentient. Grineer, corpus and the infest are not sentient. To claim that mind controlling the enemy faction is the same as commanding the underlings of your same faction is absurd.

Eidolon shields are actual shields. Mesmer skin is a charges based defense system. Something no Eidolon or sentient has.

Do not try and claim that a dash is at all similar to a teleport. They are 2 very different forms of transportation. Also, remember that Reave launched as a wall of mist and had to be changed to a vomvalyst dash because the wall was ugly. The ability still drains health from enemies which is something Eidolon do not do.
 

Danse is the only Eidolon/sentient themed ability on Revenant.

A Revenant is just something that should be dead that isn’t. It’s essentially a generic term for “undead”.

You said it was.

[Pizzarugi]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nothing you said counters my claim. I’m aware that he was a Warden to the Eidolons. But there’s no mention of what his powers were before being turned into Revenant. So we have to assume that it doesn’t matter because him becoming an Eidolon frame granted him new powers. But those new powers have absolutely nothing to do with Eidolons.

I don’t think quest frames get Leverians.

Neither did Mirage beyond mentioning her being witty and clever. And like I said before, Revenant got corrupted by the Eidolon. Besides his 4, it's very well possible his other three abilities were vampire themed before they got Eidolon influence (Enthrall could've just been a charm, Mesmer Skin could've been a misty form, Reave could've been a vampiric strike).

[CopperBezel]

3 hours ago, selig_fay said:

The revenant is not about being. A revenant is a being who has been able to return from another world, space, etc., and who has received a certain mark of distinction from this space. This sign, in most cases, is the ability to see the souls of the dead. In principle, influence can be represented in different ways, for example, when a person is under the influence of another world completely changes his opinion about things that he was sure of before he got to another space.

Er, no. The medieval European idea of a revenant is very similar to the modern zombie, much more so than the source material of the actual beliefs about zombies. Someone dies, you bury them, and instead of being cool about it and decaying like you expect, they dig their way out when you least expect it and slasher movie you. Like the Eidolons.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, selig_fay said:

The modern conception of the zombie owes itself almost entirely to George A. Romero's 1968 film Night of the Living Dead.^[1][60][61] In his films, Romero "bred the zombie with the vampire, and what he got was the hybrid vigour of a ghoulish plague monster".[62] This entailed an apocalyptic vision of monsters that have come to be known as Romero zombies.

xD

PFFFT AHAHAHAH! You played yourself.

“Bred the zombie with the vampire”.

That literally says that zombies and vampires are different. Otherwise they couldn’t be combined into something new.

[CopperBezel]

This is just your thing, huh. 

At the time the modern zombie was created, the modern zombie did not exist. The modern zombie is half vampire. The modern zombie being the one that is the only one you could possibly have been referring to in this context and which resembles the revenant myth.

(The original zombie was a brainwashed person and nothing to do with undeath.)

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Neither did Mirage beyond mentioning her being witty and clever. And like I said before, Revenant got corrupted by the Eidolon. Besides his 4, it's very well possible his other three abilities were vampire themed before they got Eidolon influence (Enthrall could've just been a charm, Mesmer Skin could've been a misty form, Reave could've been a vampiric strike).

If his powers were vampire themed that means DE intended to make a vampire frame. Which calls into question why they would both with The whole Eidolon angle if it has f*** all to do with his powers.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

5 hours ago, TheGuyver said:

No, vampires are revenants and revenants are vampires. The words are basically interchangeable. An Eidolon is a phantom, a spirit, without corporeal form. That's why they scream, because they're trying to put themselves back together since their remains are scattered among the plains. That's why the gauntalyst has a boulder for an arm. 

Revenant is the vampire, the warden, who kept them in check so they wouldn't rise and cause havoc, until he was corrupted by them. His first three abilities are all inspired by vampire related themes, with the ultimate being an exception. 

It's a shame OP can't accept this. 

Thats literally like saying Ghost are vampires because both are undead. Revenant and Vampire are not perfectly interchangeable words. Revenant does not mean vampire. It means undead. And there are several different types of undead.

You know what Eidolon doesn’t stand for? Vampire.

 

There is no evidence to claiming that Warden was a vampire frame. So we have to assume the vampire powers came from the Eidolon corruption, since he got his 4 from the Eidolon corruption. But his 1-3 have nothing to do with Eidolons, so it begs the question of where tf did he get them from.
 

I’m begging you from the bottom of my heart to please stop, take a step back, and look at the argument you are trying to make. Because the amount of common sense you are ignoring to believe this asinine nonsense is insane.

[Pizzarugi]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If his powers were vampire themed that means DE intended to make a vampire frame. Which calls into question why they would both with The whole Eidolon angle if it has f*** all to do with his powers.

Because he was corrupted by the Eidolon.

Corrupt: Change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.

There is nothing in the game that says you can't have a frame that's been altered or debased in some way and end up having Eidolon-influenced vampire abilities. Valkyr's theme is basically being enraged and frightened after what Alad V did to her, essentially corrupting her original abilities and replacing them with unbridled anger.

And then there's Xaku, a slapdash amalgamation of several different frames brought together by void energy.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Because he was corrupted by the Eidolon.

Corrupt: Change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.

There is nothing in the game that says you can't have a frame that's been altered or debased in some way and end up having Eidolon-influenced vampire abilities. Valkyr's theme is basically being enraged and frightened after what Alad V did to her, essentially corrupting her original abilities and replacing them with unbridled anger.

And then there's Xaku, a slapdash of several different frames brought together by void energy.

Alad V can completely change Valkyrs abilities through torture. But the Eidolons can’t give Revenant proper Eidolon powers over thousands of years of corrupting and reconstructing him?

You’re literally arguing “Hes the Eidolon frame. Therefor he should not have Eidolon themed abilities”.

[Pizzarugi]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Alad V can completely change Valkyrs abilities through torture. But the Eidolons can’t give Revenant proper Eidolon powers over thousands of years of corrupting and reconstructing him?

You’re literally arguing “Hes the Eidolon frame. Therefor he should not have Eidolon themed abilities”.

No, he's a vampire frame corrupted by the Eidolon. Don't put words in my mouth.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

No, he's a vampire frame corrupted by the Eidolon. Don't put words in my mouth.

Where’d the vampire theme come from? And if he was initially vampire themed then what was the point of the Eidolon corruption if it has next to no impact on his kit?

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Where’d the vampire theme come from?

The vampire theme came from DE? Just like every other theme for every other frame?

1 minute ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

And if he was initially vampire themed then what was the point of the Eidolon corruption if it has next to no impact on his kit?

An attempt to change or debase, as I described earlier when I provided the definition for corruption.

28 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

Corrupt: Change or debase by making errors or unintentional alterations.

Chances are that the Eidolons tried to convert the frame entirely into one of them, but couldn't do it and ended up with something altered to the point it now straddles the line between who it once was and who it is now.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The vampire theme came from DE? Just like every other theme for every other frame?

An attempt to change or debase, as I described earlier when I provided the definition for corruption.

Chances are that the Eidolons tried to convert the frame entirely into one of them, but couldn't do it and ended up with something altered to the point it now straddles the line between who it once was and who it is now.

Lore wise. Where did it come from.

So there was no point in choosing an Eidolon frame design or focus his backstory on being corrupted by Eidolons then.

What we have is a waste of two potentially amazing themes. Combined into a awful mess of a Warframe.

[CopperBezel]

In a small way, it doesn't matter, because just like Valkyr, he's eventually going to get a lore-breaking Prime, implying that his original design had exactly as much evil undead theme and as much Eidolon theme as the one we know. X /

[Pizzarugi]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Lore wise. Where did it come from.

Is there a reason we need to know? We'd have to ask this for every single warframe in that case.

The closest lore answer we have to that is explained in the old starting quest Vor's Prize, explaining that the warframes aren't a source in and of themselves of their incredible power, but rather a conduit. The void is what gave them their powers, through the Operators, shaped in such a way so as to perform different abilities.

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

So there was no point in choosing an Eidolon frame design or focus his backstory on being corrupted by Eidolons then.

There's nothing in the game that says you can't have corrupted frames. Revenant is a corrupted frame.

6 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

What we have is a waste of two potentially amazing themes. Combined into a awful mess of a Warframe.

There's nothing stopping us from having a purely Sentient-themed frame, as shown by your OP, separate from Revenant.

[TheGuyver]

I love how this is just 12 pages of denial lol

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

20 minutes ago, TheGuyver said:

I love how this is just 12 pages of denial lol

You’re the one who thinks anything undead is a vampire. That’s some pretty strong denial right there.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

16 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Is there a reason we need to know? We'd have to ask this for every single warframe in that case.

The closest lore answer we have to that is explained in the old starting quest Vor's Prize, explaining that the warframes aren't a source in and of themselves of their incredible power, but rather a conduit. The void is what gave them their powers, through the Operators, shaped in such a way so as to perform different abilities.

There's nothing in the game that says you can't have corrupted frames. Revenant is a corrupted frame.

There's nothing stopping us from having a purely Sentient-themed frame, as shown by your OP, separate from Revenant.

Yes there is. Revenants story isn’t like every other frames story. Every other frame it “ This is the frame, here’s the situation they are in”. Revenant is “Here’s how and Eidolon Warframe came into existence”. Every other Warframe can be explained away by “they were built that way by the Orokin”. But Revenant was remade by the Eidolons. So to have his abilities not reflect that is dumb.

Yes he’s a corrupted frame. But what’s the point of him being corrupted if all he gets out of it is 1 ability themed after what he was corrupted by and a green tinge to all his ability effects? 
 

Revenants supposed to be the Eidolon/sentient frame. It doesn’t make sense to make a completely new one just to keep the vampire theme on Revenant.

[RazerXPrime]

The only thing they need to change about Rev is his ballerina move. Everything else about him is OP.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

2 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

The only thing they need to change about Rev is his ballerina move. Everything else about him is OP.

Danse Macabre is the only thing on him that’s thematically correct.

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 2020-08-23 at 9:57 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Seriously, have a little imagination.

LMFAO

you: have a little imagination

also you: I can't believe Revenant, a frame that's a mix of vampire and Eidolon has abilities that don't entirely match my idea of Eidolon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[(PSN)thefallenloser]

On 2020-08-24 at 2:48 PM, Kaiune said:

They did in the story you just wont accept it. I guess we will have to wait till Revenant Prime to see his original look pre corruption if they keep up the Primes are old war Orokin versions of the frames lore they will be coming up on some hard ones to address that with soon with Revenant, Harrow, and possibly Nidus where there story lines may cause issue to the Prime lore.  

Valkyr too. They'll ignore it lol.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, (PS4)thefallenloser said:

LMFAO

you: have a little imagination

also you: I can't believe Revenant, a frame that's a mix of vampire and Eidolon has abilities that don't entirely match my idea of Eidolon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There’s no reason for him to be a vampire. His visual appearance does not look vampire like. His backstory has nothing to do with anything related to vampires.

theres a difference between imagination and ignoring a frames obvious theme in favor of just making him a vampire with abilities stolen from other frames.

[TurquoiseGnome]

I don't want him reworked and would rather they make a different warframe that matches whatever theme you want more closely than take away his current kit.