Jump to content

The Revenant Rework


Recommended Posts

14 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

You do realize that this is precisely what you've been doing this whole time, right?

Because asserting that Revenant is an Eidolan frame and assigning the theme you wanted to it does just that.

You double standard is showing, bud.

Not according to you...

Revenant isn’t named Eidolon frame. He’s named Revenant. You’re confusing names for descriptive terms or a title.

IDK if you were trying to be clever or you’re just confused.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-08-17 at 10:29 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

By that logic no frame should ever be reworked no matter how bad they are. Because somebody somewhere is going to cry about it. Guess DE should just revert Vaubans rework because someone misses bounce. Guess they should just replace exalted blade with super jump. Sacrifices must be made for there to be progress. And the Revenant fanbase isn’t a huge loss when the reward for it is a good Warframe.

But you aren't talking about a rework.  You're talking about redesigning and changing it completely into something different ... because you don't like it.  So, don't play it.  If you don't like it, and you can't change it into something entirely different, then just don't play it, dude.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

9 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Revenant isn’t named Eidolon frame. He’s named Revenant. You’re confusing names for descriptive terms or a title.

IDK if you were trying to be clever or you’re just confused.

No offense...It's more like you are just not reading.

Absent that, You are going to have to pick a path, sport... And then take your own advice because, so far, its' pointed in both directions.

We could remove all of the other comments in this thread and your comments alone would still be coherently arguing with itself...That's precisely how confused your stance is.

Now, Once you have picked that path...

Then I'm going to need you to grab a dictionary and look up the words Eidolan and Revenant

Every single frame's name in this game is descriptive of either the inspiration behind it or the function of the frame...There have been no exceptions on this matter to date.

  • Rhino's is depicted in helm/foot style and the act of charging.
  • Mesa's is depicted in where Mesas would actually be found.
  • Eidolan's are spectral Sentients
  • Revenant's is that of a returned from the dead warframe
  • Xaku's references that it's made from discarded parts

I did tell you before that their names were distinct and descriptive... The only person seeking to ensure they be literal is you.

 

In this case, you don't have to guess at it all too much because they actually are literal this time around...

Revenant is the risen (literal) version of the Warframe who was killed and corrupted by the Eidolan(literal) of a Sentient....It's abilities shouldn't be a copy/paste of an Eidolan because it was never a Sentient to begin with.

 

It doesn't matter how loudly you decide to argue different because those facts won't have changed.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-08-28 at 8:07 PM, tennomantra said:

I can't really comment on specifics for ability changes because I am far from an expert in that regard, but revenant isn't currently a kind of a frame that should be in the game. I've used him to skip a lot of content and it felt, it was, quite simply, cheating.
Permanent invincibility when 2 is active, can be recast any time without any danger when utilizing Rolling Guard of at least rank 4 iirc.
Any enemy who touches revenant gets cc'd.
Revenant can thrall any enemy with 1 and then kill it in one cast with 3. Good for skipping lich content in seconds, for example.
And now with marked for death + thrall+reave combo, revenant will not only be an undamageable frame, but will also be able to kill whole room with one cast combo.
A Saryn, 'Marked for Death' Revenant and Limbo walk into a bar...

That’s the problem when you have someone who doesn’t know the first thing about proper game design make a frame. They make a disjointed mess, and just be like “oh Ima give it big stats in places. That way nobody will notice how poorly designed the frame is”. And well needless to say the community fell for it. The same thing happened with the Nyx rework. The same person was in charge of it, and the only significant change was giving Nyx 100% armor strip with next to no actual effort from the player. Nyx is 1 of the worst frames in the game but you give her a lazy armor strip and suddenly everyone thinks she’s amazing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

 

No offense...It's more like you are just not reading.

Absent that, You are going to have to pick a path, sport... And then take your own advice because, so far, its' pointed in both directions.

We could remove all of the other comments in this thread and your comments alone would still be coherently arguing with itself...That's precisely how confused your stance is.

Now, Once you have picked that path...

Then I'm going to need you to grab a dictionary and look up the words Eidolan and Revenant

Every single frame's name in this game is descriptive of either the inspiration behind it or the function of the frame...There have been no exceptions on this matter to date.

  • Rhino's is depicted in helm/foot style and the act of charging.
  • Mesa's is depicted in where Mesas would actually be found.
  • Eidolan's are spectral Sentients
  • Revenant's is that of a returned from the dead warframe
  • Xaku's references that it's made from discarded parts

I did tell you before that their names were distinct and descriptive... The only person seeking to ensure they be literal is you.

 

In this case, you don't have to guess at it all too much because they actually are literal this time around...

Revenant is the risen (literal) version of the Warframe who was killed and corrupted by the Eidolan(literal) of a Sentient....It's abilities shouldn't be a copy/paste of an Eidolan because it was never a Sentient to begin with.

 

It doesn't matter how loudly you decide to argue different because those facts won't have changed.

I didn’t say that frames names don’t echo their theme in some way or another. But there is outliers like Garuda where she has nothing to do with being a bird god. You’re fabricating an argument.

If there’s no point to the Eidolon theme then why introduce it onto a frame? It’s like saying “hey this frame is Corpus themed, they have a bunch of tech skills and stuff”, but their gameplay solely consists of nothing but making origami. But hey the Corpus MAKE technology, and people can MAKE origami. So they’re obviously the exact same thing.

They made a frame. Called it an Eidolon Warframe. And failed to deliver on that.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Electra-VIIX said:

But you aren't talking about a rework.  You're talking about redesigning and changing it completely into something different ... because you don't like it.  So, don't play it.  If you don't like it, and you can't change it into something entirely different, then just don't play it, dude.

Same difference.

Also my rework isn’t that different functionally from Revenants current design. 1 is still minions, 2 is still tanking, 3 is still a debuff, and 4 is still damage. It’s still the overall same outline, just with thematically appropriate abilities.

Link to post
Share on other sites
vor 30 Minuten schrieb (XB1)GearsMatrix301:

Same difference.

Also my rework isn’t that different functionally from Revenants current design. 1 is still minions, 2 is still tanking, 3 is still a debuff, and 4 is still damage. It’s still the overall same outline, just with thematically appropriate abilities.

A generic meta frame build that has no useful interaction. 

A generic 90%DR ability that wont save you from a Toxic Ancient at all.... 

Nah, current Rev is better... not a disjointed and copy past mess like what you call your rework. 

 

L2P issue or leave Rev alone. 

At this point you are a kid in the playground angrily stompin your foot on the ground because the other kids wont recognize you the undefeatable super ultra lordmaster. 

 

The same useless mess that this rework is, is Xakus absolute trash kit. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I didn’t say that frames names don’t echo their theme in some way or another. But there is outliers like Garuda where she has nothing to do with being a bird god. You’re fabricating an argument.

On 2020-08-28 at 6:39 PM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Frame names should never be held up against their theme. Otherwise we could literally argue all day how Mesa doesn’t turn into flatlands or Rhino isn’t an actual Rhino. 

The is a specific reason. Because he’s supposed to be a f***mothering Eidolon frame. Otherwise they wouldn’t have bothered making a frame with an Eidolon theme to begin with.

Except that is exactly what you did...Don't blame me for pointing out the flaws in your own shifting argument.

Incidentally, Garuda isn't an outlier...except for the fact she's a she.

You are obliged to shift your argument so much because it is more petty and entitled than it is actually reasoned or reasonable.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

If there’s no point to the Eidolon theme then why introduce it onto a frame? 

I haven't said there wasn't a point to being Eidolan themed and, in fact, every single power Revenant has is Eidolan themed...He's just not what you want— A frame-sized Eidolan.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s like saying “hey this frame is Corpus themed, they have a bunch of tech skills and stuff”, but their gameplay solely consists of nothing but making origami. But hey the Corpus MAKE technology, and people can MAKE origami. So they’re obviously the exact same thing.

Is it evil origami? I gotta know.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

They made a frame. Called it Revenant. And I'm not happy with it.

FTFY

This is Revenant, the returned - the condemned. Harnessing the essence of Eidolon and warrior alike, he mystifies and obliterates his foes.

Revenant serves last rites for the souls he leaves on fire, without a plea for mercy. -Lotus

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Hikariwatashi said:

A generic meta frame build that has no useful interaction. 

A generic 90%DR ability that wont save you from a Toxic Ancient at all.... 

Nah, current Rev is better... not a disjointed and copy past mess like what you call your rework. 

 

L2P issue or leave Rev alone. 

At this point you are a kid in the playground angrily stompin your foot on the ground because the other kids wont recognize you the undefeatable super ultra lordmaster. 

 

The same useless mess that this rework is, is Xakus absolute trash kit. 

Revenant is a disjointed copy/paste.

Enthrall is Mind Control.

Mesmer Skin is one of Ameshas abilities.

Reave is Tidal surge.

Danse was originally an AOE sleep so it would’ve been ripping off Equinox’s rest. Now it’s technically an original skill tho it takes from the “press 4 to win” style of powers.

My rework consists of original ideas molded around Attacks and abilities the Eidolons perform.

And so why if my rework isn’t super synergy intensive? Synergies don’t make a frame good. Just look at Saryn before Pablo reworked her. She had weird synergies that and the end of the day didn’t do all that much for her. Or look at Baruuk. He’s currently sitting as one of the strongest frames in the game and he has next to no synergies. It’s far better to have each ability stand firmly on their own instead of dicing up their functions to synergies and risk making the base abilities awful, and the synergy triggers be awful. Much like current Revenant.

More like I’m the scientist in a room full of lobotomized chimps.

Oh no, my rework is 100x better than Xaku. I wasn’t stupid enough to put a bad damage type and enemy damage as key parts of a Warframe kit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-08-29 at 11:44 AM, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

He’s not fine. He’s one of the worst designed frames in the game.

Only 1 of his abilities has anything to do with Sentients or Eidolons. The rest are just vampire abilities with Eidolon visuals.

I know how to use Revenant. How many times to I have to say this to you people.

Pray to me all you want. I’m not listening 😜

15 pages in and you cant see that you just don't know how to use the frame🤣🤣 everyone keeps telling you but I guess you're just slow. Anytime you have a frame that can take 0% damage in a 3 hour survival with high damage and crowd control you dont complain. If you are dying as Revenant or not getting enough kills, you're just not good at that frame. You can be honest and tell us you're just upset that you're not good at this frame. It's fine, no need to make up a whole bs rework post about it. We all have frames we aren't good with, we were all noobs at one point. Keep practicing you'll get there lil guy.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the existing Revenant kit better. Full damage invulneratiblity, ability to charm lots of enemies to fight for you, and infinitly scaling damage with reave, plus health and shield restore. Revenant is one of the better frames in the game. I think a lot of people just don't realize the synergies and how to play him and just try to pinwheel all day.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (PS4)Grand_Sheba said:

15 pages in and you cant see that you just don't know how to use the frame🤣🤣 everyone keeps telling you but I guess you're just slow. Anytime you have a frame that can take 0% damage in a 3 hour survival with high damage and crowd control you dont complain. If you are dying as Revenant or not getting enough kills, you're just not good at that frame. You can be honest and tell us you're just upset that you're not good at this frame. It's fine, no need to make up a whole bs rework post about it. We all have frames we aren't good with, we were all noobs at one point. Keep practicing you'll get there lil guy.

You enthrall an enemy, and then cast Reave and dash over the enemy. It’s an incredibly inefficient method of killing an enemy especially when there’s dozens of other methods that kill more enemies faster.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thiadon said:

I like the existing Revenant kit better. Full damage invulneratiblity, ability to charm lots of enemies to fight for you, and infinitly scaling damage with reave, plus health and shield restore. Revenant is one of the better frames in the game. I think a lot of people just don't realize the synergies and how to play him and just try to pinwheel all day.

The reason people use Danse Macabre more is because it’s ultimately the more effective ability. Infinite scaling damage doesn’t mean anything if it’s slow and limited in range. Comparing that to really good damage that scales to near level 200 with a decent range and you’ve got a far more practical choice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

The reason people use Danse Macabre more is because it’s ultimately the more effective ability. Infinite scaling damage doesn’t mean anything if it’s slow and limited in range. Comparing that to really good damage that scales to near level 200 with a decent range and you’ve got a far more practical choice.

Yep, can be effective up to a point, although in later steel path or harder missions, you're better off charming and relying on the synergy with reave for the hard to kill mobs. Longer endless missions, reave wins.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Enthrall is Mind Control.

I wish Nyx could control up to 7 enemies. That would make her an amazing frame.

6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Mesmer Skin is one of Ameshas abilities.

That can stun enemies who hit you, makes Enthrall free to cast on the stunned, and doesn't require the use of a vehicle you can only use in a handful of missions or the open world (that also doesn't want you using them, given the abundance of the "STOP #*!%ING FLYING" missiles they launch at you).

6 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Reave is Tidal surge.

That steals life, shields, and has infinite damage scaling as its based on enemy life rather than a flat number. Tidal Surge could learn a thing or two.

Edited by Pizzarugi
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thiadon said:

Yep, can be effective up to a point, although in later steel path or harder missions, you're better off charming and relying on the synergy with reave for the hard to kill mobs. Longer endless missions, reave wins.

Literally went through Steel Path with Baruuk and Khora and had zero issues outside of needing people for interceptions.

If you know how to actually play the game there is no such thing as a hard to kill mob.

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

I wish Nyx could control up to 7 enemies. That would make her an amazing frame.

That can stun enemies who hit you, makes Enthrall free to cast on the stunned, and doesn't require the use of a vehicle you can only use in a handful of missions or the open world (that also doesn't want you using them, given the abundance of the "STOP #*!%ING FLYING" missiles they launch at you).

That steals life, shields, and has infinite damage scaling as its based on enemy life rather than a flat number. Tidal Surge could learn a thing or two.

You’re taking what I’m saying too literally. Revenants abilities are other abilities with a few added effects. There’s nothing original about him.

Edited by (XB1)GearsMatrix301
Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Except that is exactly what you did...Don't blame me for pointing out the flaws in your own shifting argument.

Incidentally, Garuda isn't an outlier...except for the fact she's a she.

You are obliged to shift your argument so much because it is more petty and entitled than it is actually reasoned or reasonable.

I haven't said there wasn't a point to being Eidolan themed and, in fact, every single power Revenant has is Eidolan themed...He's just not what you want— A frame-sized Eidolan.

Is it evil origami? I gotta know.

FTFY

This is Revenant, the returned - the condemned. Harnessing the essence of Eidolon and warrior alike, he mystifies and obliterates his foes.

Revenant serves last rites for the souls he leaves on fire, without a plea for mercy. -Lotus

 

Ok you’re literally just adjusting my comments now to fabricate something to argue against. I’m done with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Ok you’re literally just adjusting my comments now to fabricate something to argue against. I’m done with you.

I'd disagree with that you have to talk very broadly to make that claim. 

Enthrall is really not much like mind control at all and they play very differently. Mind control works like a turret with the aim of the target doing damage while Enthrall aims to spread the ability so you can detonate them for the pillars. Mechanically it has more in common with Saryns spores. You cast wait for it to spread and detonate with the 4. 

Reave i comparrison to tidal surge I think is incredibly unfair. It is  one of a set of mobility abilities which all have similar inputs and broad effects rhino charge, Reave, tidal surge and tail wind. The problem with calling them all the same is that al lyou are point ing out is they share a common video game archetype, dash attacks. Its like saying there are multiple bolt or nuke style abilities in the game which would its very reductive and ignores the many ways these abilities can vary.For example all of these abilities are used differently for different reasons, rhino charge is most often used to build armor for iron skin the aim is to hit as many as possible, reave is a damage dealer/heal the aim is to hit specific marked targets, tidal surge is a cc  the aim is to push enemies into his damage zones or move puddle and tail wind is a mobility and you don't really want to hit any one. Regardless they are all the same move forward x distance and apply effects to collision but as fire blast, avalanche, miasma,  polarise and much more are just large sphere spheres that apply effects to all hit. 

The place id say you are correct is that mesmer skin is pretty much the same as Amesha's defence but its pretty unique among Warframes and I don't see this criticism being made of say volts shield which is pretty much the same as odanata's shield. 

Danse Macarbre doesn't really have an analogue except maybe sound quake from Banshee but only in that they are a push 4 and hold for damage they don't even target in the same way. 

The problem with these abilities is simply not  that they aren't unique. 

Now for you suggestions:
The summoning wisps thing is ok. While the current version is interesting having it spread while being so limited is clunky and unpredictable switching to  summons could help that.
The problem with this iteration is the extra functions like the damage buff, the revive ect is really all too much and seems to have allot of clunky micro managing when in practice most of the time players will be speeding through levels and not bother.  Especially when you take into account it also interacts with  the two you suggested. 

The adaptive shielding is redundant. I get you are trying to be thematic but realistically we are talking about  changes that wont change game play at all but will simply add a bunch of calculations to the back side and extra icon indicators to the UI.  With or with out the adaptation effect it will be treated as a flat DR.  The scaling aspect isn't enough for people to act around that if it starts with a flat 90%. The healing aspect is odd given this is an ability people will want active constantly due to the DR and so the heal wont really be player driven at all it will basically just be revenant just heals passively when ever he needs it.  Also having armor strip on this ability is just over doing it  this ability would do literally everything.

3 is just a flat damage buff in a cone/aoe. Players will l already be using the element they are weak too and because its not a specific element people wont bring certain weapons to take advantage of it. Its a flat boring damage buff and honestly if you wanted to put Armor strip any where it would be here. The problem is that a significant amount of defence strip and a damage boost would be over powered so it would not be a strong strip and really do the same thing. 

The 4 is just a gun.  De makes guns like this including multiple modes. It would be an effective gun because of adaptive damage but not very interesting. Generally speaking exalted have lost their lustre in the current state of the game. There are too many interesting normal weapons with interesting mods/effects for them to compete.  They need something very special to stick out. 

The other big thing is that with all of these changes there is nothing retained and so you may have well pitched a new frame. He'd play differently, he'd look differently and they may need to start from scratch any way to do this. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

I’m done with you.

Animated GIF

These conversations are always entertaining... 

If it helps, I just so happen to be a Revenant fan and like the frame as-is given that it's one of the few solo oriented frames in the game.

Put simply, you'll only be "done with me" when you've stopped harassing Revenant and its' Players.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-08-19 at 1:21 PM, NuclearCoffeePot said:

I agree with the exalted cop out point. Its a super boring idea and doesnt add anything interesting to the game even if its good damage. 

For the eidolons picking up their remnants I think it would make a cool passive- Like when he loses 25% of his hp he loses a piece of himself and it goes flying, reducing his armor but giving him bonus ms, and this can happen 4 times with the 4th time giving him a grace period to pick up a lost piece- pieces would despawn after a period of say 10-15 seconds and picking them up would restore 15% hp- unfortunately this idea is sort of xacu's whole ult sooooo

Your point with AI is true but I think DE is getting better with it- They experimented with just raw stat increase in the nyx "rework"(its still trash tho) and with wukongs celestial twin they ALMOST nailed it.

I think the idea Gears had would be to make his 1 more like nekros shadows then Celestial twin though- they serve to distract enemies and be a passive source of x utility but they need to be more well balanced then his suggestion- summoning vomvalyst's is cool and thematically resonates well but it is their purpose that needs to be altered- To the Eidolons these things are pawns- they don't do much for them except help revive them when they go down and serve as a distraction for the players.

So maybe we make this ability an investment that pays off in the right situation- He can summon a vomvalyst which travels by him and draws some aggro or whatever- It marks an enemy every x seconds- If you kill the enemy, another vomvalyst spawns and when a certain condition is fulfilled something happens- I would think something along the lines of- if you lose your shields with at least 4 vomvalysts summoned your shields are instantly refilled and the vomvalysts explode dealing (x damage plus 50% per additional vomvalyst spawned) dealing damage to enemies in 10 meters

I think to make his kit more interesting then it currently is he needs to fill conditions to recieve the rewards he does- Rather then it just be, press button, get reward.

 

I’m open to any suggestions for a 4 alternative that resonates with the rest of the kit.

Your passive idea sounds more like something that should be on Xaku.

Correct, I wasn’t going for a Damage minion as there is only 1 good one and Vomvalysts don’t lead to way to using what makes that minion good. I provided both the healing and the distraction, but I didn’t feel like that was enough for an ability so I threw the explosion on death onto them tho I personally think it’s going to be rather useless. But hey every good frame has 1 or 2 useless mechanics on them.

Not a fan of spawning Vomvalysts through enemies.

Interesting and good are two very different things. Current Revenant has the issue where his base ability functions are awful and useless and they completely rely on their synergies to do anything. Which isn’t fun or really all that engaging. I want to focus on making good abilities first that stand on their own, and then throwing in synergies where it’s beneficial to do so.

Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

When and where?

In my house, me and my friend Pablo  were talking about removing his mesmer skin because is one of the stupidest broken abilities in this game.

Same for limbo, nova, wisp and many other stupid broken abilities.

Edited by bibmobello
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...