Personal worries about crystalys system.

[b4timert]

Im kinda worried of the crystalys system. the game wasnt balanced around needed to farm multiple frames. The Total rep needed to buy the all the quest warframes is about 950k even at half the price. that is 31 day of capping your rep at rank 29 to get. DE will need to buff drops on warframe part like ivara, octavia.

There is also a few other problems with it. What happens if a ability makes a broken combo? What do they do if that decided later that power should not be useable what happens if DE nerf a ability only in crystalist system and now its worse than other abilities i could pick, what happens if a frame is reworked? 

Just getting a random or the new one isnt always the correct choice because maybe you would rather have the other one but the unnerve or the old one was the better of the 2/3but nowyour old 2nd best is the best.

 

Edit I was wrong i thought there was more than 1 ability to pick from but i still do think that some frames need  buffs in drop chance like ivara some of the harrow part's and octavia. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

10 minutes ago, b4timert said:

DE will need to buff drops on warframe part like ivara, octavia.

It's a one-time deal to sacrifice the frame... Like with when a frame releases, you just have to farm it once, and done. I do agree that the costs from simaris frames should be lowered, not sure if 50% will cut it, but it's already a good thing that they even thought of it to me.

As for drop rates, whether they buff them or nerf them it'll always come down to the lucky guy who had them easily dropped, and the poor unlucky sod who just can't get that last part to drop.

For example, farmed Atlas, Ash, Ember, Equinox and Excalibur today. I guess I was on the good side of luck today, but tomorrow it could become gruesome grind nonetheless. Even for Equinox I only had one part, and I'm going on an alphabetical order.

I'm all for toning down the grind, but somehow I doubt DE will go further than they already committed to, specially since these are still one-and-done items despite them having us farming frames for a second time.

---

As for changes down the line I do believe you should be able to default your frame for free. So if DE botches an ability that became part of the meta at least you don't see your investment completely rejected. 

Not excited to farm 2 frames every release, however. Not with how DE sometimes just releases gruesome grinds in some cases. *looks in disgust at Sanctuary Onslaught*

[b4timert]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Hikuro-93 said:

It's a one-time deal to sacrifice the frame... Like with when a frame releases, you just have to farm it once, and done. I do agree that the costs from simaris frames should be lowered, not sure if 50% will cut it, but it's already a good thing that they even thought of it to me.

As for drop rates, whether they buff them or nerf them it'll always come down to the lucky guy who had them easily dropped, and the poor unlucky sod who just can't get that last part to drop.

For example, farmed Atlas, Ash, Ember, Equinox and Excalibur today. I guess I was on the good side of luck today, but tomorrow it could become gruesome grind nonetheless. Even for Equinox I only had one part, and I'm going on an alphabetical order.

I'm all for toning down the grind, but somehow I doubt DE will go further than they already committed to, specially since these are still one-and-done items despite them having us farming frames for a second time.

It not fully a once of deal like you think. Meta's chance a ability that is strong now might not be later. to add to that that is why im worried about it chances to the rooster of pickable abilities or frame reworks or nerf to them what happens to the ability you picked?, because it might mean you will need to sacrifice a new frame to get the best of the 2/3 abilities.

with all the potensial combo that can exist now a few might be to strong for DE and its totally possible they missed it even if none is broken now with each new frame that comes out it might break something.

I can also start to see some potential toxic behavior from this. people wanting frame X with ability Y if you don't have them they won't invite. and it not that you didn't sacrificed the frame for Y but that you picked one of the other from that frame.

[YUNoJump]

It does seem like one hell of a farm, but from what I’ve seen there are two major mitigating factors: 

1. It’s clearly going to be a late game task. It’s gonna be much easier to speed-farm bosses and such to rebuild frames with endgame gear compared to when we were first starting out. Simaris standing is probably going to be a pain for those frames and I wouldn’t say its a bad idea to reduce the costs, but with full access to the Starchart and the ability to essentially ignore non-target enemies due to superior damage reduction and CC, it will be much easier than earlier in a player’s career.

2. It doesn’t seem like you’ll really need to re-farm EVERY frame. There’s no RNG involved with gaining the abilities so you’ll know exactly whether or not a frame’s ability will be useful on other frames. For example, if you don’t like Pull as an ability, you have no need to rebuild Mag. A likely scenario is that there are going to be 4-5 frames with “good” abilities to harvest, that are really worth grinding hard for, and the other frames can just be farmed at your leisure, fighting the relevant boss occasionally or whatever. 

The only other reason for needing to farm every frame would be for the levels that the Helminth gains as you feed him stuff, but it looks like that can be easily circumvented by just giving him resources in place of frames. It’d probably be a bit more satisfying to farm resources with reliable drop rates than fight bosses over and over for RNG.

[Hiruma-Kai]

7 minutes ago, b4timert said:

It not fully a once of deal like you think. Meta's chance a ability that is strong now might not be later. to add to that that is why im worried about it chances to the rooster of pickable abilities or frame reworks or nerf to them what happens to the ability you picked?, because it might mean you will need to sacrifice a new frame to get the best of the 2/3 abilities.

with all the potensial combo that can exist now a few might be to strong for DE and its totally possible they missed it even if none is broken now with each new frame that comes out it might break something.

I can also start to see some potential toxic behavior from this. people wanting frame X with ability Y if you don't have them they won't invite. and it not that you didn't sacrificed the frame for Y but that you picked one of the other from that frame.

They have stated very clearly at tennocon that each frame is going to have only one ability that can be donated.  That ability is picked by DE.  You don't get to pick the ability.  You sacrifice Mag, and you get Pull.  That is it.  There is no roster to choose from. 

I suppose if they changed their mind in 2 years time and change which ability Mag provides after being sacrificed (which strikes me as unlikely), I would assume they'd remove Pull and give you the new ability.  They're not going to leave you with an ability they've removed as an option.

[Loza03]

I'm just gonna drop this here:

Read up, make sure you're fully informed on everything that we know. Not saying all your concerns are addressed here, but this is, to the best of my ability, the most accurate single source of information about the Helminth Chrysalis system there is on the Forums.

[b4timert]

rewatched it i was wrong that there is more than 1 to pick from,but i still think they need to make changes. some frames will be a pain to get again good examples is ivara, khora.

[trst]

Simaris prices are being reduced with the update and you only need to re-farm the frames you want the ability of and getting a second copy at worst isn't even a chore.

Also assuming DE balances edge cases and has to nerf abilities when they get transferred then it only impacts the most die-hard of meta chasers. Most frames have at least one ability that is either outright bad or too niche for regular use and in those cases replacing them with almost anything else, even if it gets nerfed, will still be better than their base ability. And if an ability gets reworked on the base frame then the only thing that could cause conflict would be if the new one is too strong to be transferred, in which case they can just replace it with whatever the new transferable ability will be. People will complain, of course, but given its intention as an end game system that only costs resources that have zero value to these people it's literally a non issue.

And you seem confused as to how the ability selection works. Each frame is getting a predefined ability that they will donate to the system and you're only allowed to replace one ability on a frame with the system at all. Assuming what they showed remains the same for release it means that Mag and Volt can only give Pull and Shock while the Excalibur they put Shock onto can only have that one replacement for the loadouts it was applied to.

[Hiruma-Kai]

6 minutes ago, b4timert said:

that isn't how it work you have to pick one ability from 2 to 3 then the one you picked you can use as many times as you want but if you want to change abilities you will need to donate again. each frame has a few choices.

Can you point me to your source of where you're getting this, or is this an assumption you've made?

Go watch the Tennocon reveal (easily accessed from Loza03's link) and watch and listen starting at the 32:40 mark.  Mag shows which ability you're going to get (Pull).  There is no selection there.  They go on to verbally state every warframe in the game has had one ability chosen that you can donate.