(PSN)The1stAzrael Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I didn't like the sound of this system when I first heard of it, and now I feel even more uneasy about it. I'm concerned that this thing will just be forced onto the game, accompanied by a multitude of poorly thought out reworks, nerfs, or buffs. It seems all too likely that they would rework an ability simply because it is strong on a handful of frames, becomes too good, or too popular. If they wanted to rebalance their game, I don't think this is how it should be done; there's too much room for an error here, considering how DE has reworked or nerfed things before. Another thing I'm wondering about is, their old justification for nerfing bless-link Trinity. They never intended for her to be played like that so they eliminated it by completely redoing self damage. Will we see a repeat of that when players start using different abilities to play frames in a way DE has never intended? If Renewal is Oberon's donated ability and it becomes the meta to put that on Inaros or Chroma, will Renewal get changed to an ability based on duration instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said: If Renewal is Oberon's donated ability and it becomes the meta to put that on Inaros or Chroma, will Renewal get changed to an ability based on duration instead? The optimist in me is saying "well now the abilities have two versions, normal and Helminth" Meaning, if Renewal is too powerful on Chroma, they can nerf the Helminth version but leave Oberon himself un-nerfed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)The1stAzrael Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: The optimist in me is saying "well now the abilities have two versions, normal and Helminth" Meaning, if Renewal is too powerful on Chroma, they can nerf the Helminth version but leave Oberon himself un-nerfed That seems like a good solution, yeah. I think it would certainly allow for some variation, while leaving the frame that that ability originally came from, untouched. It could also work as a way to test how well some changes to an ability would be received before deciding to add it to the main kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolDudeMcCool Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 10 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: The optimist in me is saying "well now the abilities have two versions, normal and Helminth" Meaning, if Renewal is too powerful on Chroma, they can nerf the Helminth version but leave Oberon himself un-nerfed Pablo confirmed on twitter that frames like Limbo whose abilities don't work without the rest of his kit are gonna have a "fudged" ability, so there's already a precedent for something like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, (NSW)FlameDivinity said: 2. Ask @DeMonkey You guys just want me to pop a blood vessel, don't you? There I am, just carrying on with my day, enjoying my evening with a cider and I get "Hey Monkey, tell us how much the Iron Staff sucks for the 69th time". Now my peace is broken and my day is irrevocably ruined, and I'm holding you personally accountable for it. Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Onyx Schnee Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 the only frames i can't deduce for are limbo, octavia, grendal and hyldrin. I have a theoretical list of every other frame(Including the 6 powers we already know.) Spoiler Fire walker molt shock air burst pull ice wave ripline/paralysis smoke screen breach surge defy tectonics reave smite worm hole slight of hand larvae/link devour decoy prowl thermal sunder elude shock wave scream fireball/blast spectrorage dread mirror tempast barrage entangle gun battery soul punch psychic bolts grenade fan charge spellbind well of life orbital strike/tesla nervos I'm not the most intuitive player out there, so i'll probably be wrong about some of these, but my brother and I deduce that these might be the most likely powers for each frame barring the four mentioned above. the reason for excluding those 4 is because we could not think of any of their powers that were actually not useful to their kits in some way or form(either the powers were already stupidly weak or by default too good for other frames.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yggranya Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 51 minutes ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said: If Renewal is Oberon's donated ability and it becomes the meta to put that on Inaros or Chroma, will Renewal get changed to an ability based on duration instead? Why would you want renewal on inaros? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TARINunit9 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said: the only frames i can't deduce for are limbo, octavia, grendal and hyldrin. Octavia and Hildryn seem easy to me: Mallet and Pillage, with Mallet set to the default Octavia's Anthem percussion track Without reading Pablo's mind, the only solution I can think of for Limbo is a hybrid of Banish and Stasis. Using the targeting logic of Banish, and the effects of Stasis I agree with you on Grendel though. No idea how he's going to make Devour or Nourish work (Also I predict Inaros is going to be Pocket Sand instead of Devour. "Iconic" and "Signature" do not mean "the only powers worth using". This is also why I feel confident about Hildryn and Pillage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Onyx Schnee Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said: Octavia and Hildryn seem easy to me: Mallet and Pillage, with Mallet set to the default Octavia's Anthem percussion track Without reading Pablo's mind, the only solution I can think of for Limbo is a hybrid of Banish and Stasis. Using the targeting logic of Banish, and the effects of Stasis I agree with you on Grendel though. No idea how he's going to make Devour or Nourish work (Also I predict Inaros is going to be Pocket Sand instead of Devour. "Iconic" and "Signature" do not mean "the only powers worth using". This is also why I feel confident about Hildryn and Pillage) I see, Octavia and Hildryn make sense now that you mention those powers. mallet may find use on certain frames(say vauban. you could lure enemies into bastille or into range of his flachette) with limbo, i assume(as you mentioned) using banish with stasis melded in would be the only thing that works. Banish in particular seems the most likely skill. grendal will POSSIBLY get feast, since all of his other powers rely on having enemies eaten. if not feast than his regurgitate power Xaku will very likely get her/his.their 1(Xata's whisper.) since it seems to be the most useful/likely power since the lost seems to be a signature. if it's not Whisper, it will be grasp(which i can see coming in handy on frames that specialize in duration. imagine protea using both her blaze artillary and her slain target's weapons against them. or vauban having vortexed a punch of enemies then stealing their weapons for his own use.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)The1stAzrael Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, (PS4)Yggranya said: Why would you want renewal on inaros? Renewal paired with Hunter's Adrenaline or Rage on Inaros could allow him to heal himself or keep up his health much at a much rate better than he currently can, which I think would turn him into an even better tank or all solo frame; especially with a high strength and efficiency build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Onyx Schnee Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, (PS4)The1stAzrael said: Renewal paired with Hunter's Adrenaline or Rage on Inaros could allow him to heal himself or keep up his health much at a much rate better than he currently can, which I think would turn him into an even better tank or all solo frame; especially with a high strength and efficiency build. Inaros already has enough heals on him to begin with. throw in grace+adaptation+guardian and he'll never die(even more so with a kavat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(NSW)Sniperfox47 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said: It's really not that complicated: Rhino is for new players that need to take damage because they'll die all the time. Almost every new person is told to get rhino for his iron skin. I never even used his 1.....I used his Iron skin and stomp to stop being overwhelmed by enemies. We're not role players, I dont care if rhino is an actual rhino or not. I don't really care about anyone's "theme". I care about their abilities. I cant stand looking at Revenant, but his 2 is the best ability in the game (one of the best). I use Revenant for index and arbitrations when I feel like going easy mode, I have no attachment to the theme or frame at all. Meta != Signiture. Just because it's what people use does not make it representative of that character. 1 hour ago, OniDax said: Stomp is his ult. I never said his ult was good. Typically, the 4th ability is the ult. Thing is, for most warframes, all of their abilities are iconic/signature to those frames. Ult is short for ultimate. How is an Ult an Ult if it's not good o.O Next you're going to tell me the Effigy is an Ult despite it being as effective as gently blowing on your foes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)The1stAzrael Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Just now, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said: Inaros already has enough heals on him to begin with. throw in grace+adaptation+guardian and he'll never die(even more so with a kavat) Adding Renewal would be a cheaper alternative then. Although, I wonder if that would lead to a lowered demand for those mods and arcanes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said: Meta != Signiture. Just because it's what people use does not make it representative of that character. Ult is short for ultimate. How is an Ult an Ult if it's not good o.O Next you're going to tell me the Effigy is an Ult despite it being as effective as gently blowing on your foes. "Ultimate" in Warframe is a colloquial term to refer to a frame's 4th ability regardless of it being good or bad. "No ults" in this context simply means that all 4th abilities are locked out of the system and not even up for consideration of inclusion. So yes, Effigy is an ult. A terrible ult and the worst ability in Chroma's kit, but still his ult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterBurik Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said: Octavia and Hildryn seem easy to me: Mallet and Pillage, with Mallet set to the default Octavia's Anthem percussion track Without reading Pablo's mind, the only solution I can think of for Limbo is a hybrid of Banish and Stasis. Using the targeting logic of Banish, and the effects of Stasis I agree with you on Grendel though. No idea how he's going to make Devour or Nourish work (Also I predict Inaros is going to be Pocket Sand instead of Devour. "Iconic" and "Signature" do not mean "the only powers worth using". This is also why I feel confident about Hildryn and Pillage) Mallet: Fixed place aggro tool with scaling damage and a cheap casting cost. Quite effective by itself, especially in close quarters. Augment allows you to have two of them. Resonator: Mobile aggro tool with non-scaling damage and a midline casting cost. "Ok" at distracting the enemy by itself, but not that great without a Mallet. Augment allows you "redirect" its pathing. Yeah...my money is on DE picking Resonator. It is lackluster enough to ensure they can keep it balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMonkey Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 31 minutes ago, Jarriaga said: "Ultimate" in Warframe is a colloquial term A colloquial term I thought we'd long since stopped using given the overwhelming lack of ultimate-esque features for these abilities. I mean, traditionally an ultimate ability is gamechanging, costs a magnitude more energy/power and/or has a cooldown in the realms of 30 seconds, 40 seconds or sometimes even over a minute. Warframe's 4th abilities have no cooldowns, regularly follow the linear 25*ability# formula for their cost and quite often don't change the game in any overly noticeable way. I get it, DE said they're ultimates, but as with "Exalted" being plastered on virtually everything nowadays, I'm of the opinion that they're miscategorising. Sure, it's probably for the sake of making life simpler for everyone, but it's still nonsense. Something something a walking talking duck is a duck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)TheWanderer17 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 So trinity is gonna give us.... well of life... I'm gonna give it to all my frames! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 17 minutes ago, DeMonkey said: A colloquial term I thought we'd long since stopped using given the overwhelming lack of ultimate-esque features for these abilities. I mean, traditionally an ultimate ability is gamechanging, costs a magnitude more energy/power and/or has a cooldown in the realms of 30 seconds, 40 seconds or sometimes even over a minute. Warframe's 4th abilities have no cooldowns, regularly follow the linear 25*ability# formula for their cost and quite often don't change the game in any overly noticeable way. I get it, DE said they're ultimates, but as with "Exalted" being plastered on virtually everything nowadays, I'm of the opinion that they're miscategorising. Sure, it's probably for the sake of making life simpler for everyone, but it's still nonsense. Something something a walking talking duck is a duck. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurtiStryke Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 20 hours ago, Jarriaga said: Tail Wind is her signature ability 20 hours ago, Jarriaga said: Reb agreed and said that's 100% how you can deduce which abilities are going to be shared and here we have a little problem, so, you're saying that signature ability or ultimates canìt be shared? ok, so, what about grendel? his 1 it's the only ability that can be shared because every other ability can't work without using feast (2 can't buff and 3 can't throw enemies because there can't be enemies in your guts without the first ability, and same for 4 + it's an ultimate) and the first ability it's obviouslys his signature ability, hek, not even the passive can work without feast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 50 minutes ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said: Meta != Signiture. Just because it's what people use does not make it representative of that character. Ult is short for ultimate. How is an Ult an Ult if it's not good o.O Next you're going to tell me the Effigy is an Ult despite it being as effective as gently blowing on your foes. Yes, Effigy is Chroma's Ultimate ability. His ultimate ability is his pelt hovering in the air like a dragon. Yes, that's his ultimate ability. Are a lot of Ults badly designed and in need of major buffs? Yes. But they are still Ults. An Ult that isn't good is a bad ult. It doesn't stop being an ult just because it's weak. News flash: Most 4th abilities are designed as Ultimate abilities, whether they're over- or under-powered. It's been that way since the beginning, but you're forgiven for not knowing how it's been since the beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_of_76 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 20 hours ago, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said: I'm sad to hear that this means Miasma won't be Saryn's chosen ability since it's an Ult... I really wanted to see players faces when they realized that the "she just spams 4" myth was so blatantly false on anything but low level mobs. well yes she just presses one and 4 every so often add in her 3 for better spore spread and 2 when she needs health Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaoticEdge Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 What? Chroma's breath is not going get buff? Also Nekcros's soul punch isn't going get buff either? wow must be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarriaga Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, TheKurtiStryke said: and here we have a little problem, so, you're saying that signature ability or ultimates canìt be shared? I'm not. DE are. They said it themselves first during the initial chrysalis system reveal with Reb flat-out saying no ults and no signature abilities citing Nekro's Desecrate as what they deem to be a signature ability. In case you missed it or you are just trying to be obtuse, here's a direct link to the reveal with the timestamp: And during that interview with Shy in the OP, Reb reinforced it by saying DK was 100% correct with his reasoning. Not 80%, not 95%, but 100%, as in "Absolutely correct". I gave the timestamps for a reason. 21 minutes ago, TheKurtiStryke said: ok, so, what about grendel? his 1 it's the only ability that can be shared because every other ability can't work without using feast (2 can't buff and 3 can't throw enemies because there can't be enemies in your guts without the first ability, and same for 4 + it's an ultimate) and the first ability it's obviouslys his signature ability, hek, not even the passive can work without feast. And this is why I think you're being obtuse. Did you read the rest of the OP before posting? 20 hours ago, Jarriaga said: - Abilities that come from unique frame designs such as Equinox, Grendel and Limbo are being reworked for the system. Reb said that they are reworking unique abilities so they can be used in the system. Whatever they choose, it will be decoupled/modified from the standard version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirit_of_76 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 16 hours ago, schilds said: Take Khora. Khora was originally sold/understood as a whip frame. Three of her abilities can be related to tying things up. She was released with Venari as a distinguishing feature and is now more hunter themed. If we're just going by the "tying things up" theme then Venari is the odd ability out. On the other hand, as a hunter, having a hunting companion is reasonable and the other abilities still fit ok as the weapons/traps/tools that a hunter might use. So we have some people who don't see Venari as really representing her theme, while others see Venari as a unique/distinct ability that distinguishes Khora from other frames. her two it is a fairly generic CC Her one and 3 would be "iconic" 8 hours ago, (PS4)Yggranya said: Sure, accidents might happen but i doubt that is how it works for all frames. Of course, if zephyr is about controlling air currents or whatever, then none of the abilities should be chosen because they are all its signature abilities. So as i said, no logic, just rather frail excuses. the question is what is the frame used for so out side of ults (4's) zeph is used for her 1 in plains and her 3 everywhere as such Oberon would gift his one, wisp her two, nova her 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 6 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said: Where did you get this from... Overwatch, Titan Fall 2 any game that defines a role for a team tier. 6 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said: again, pit of downgraded ideas...what does that mean The set of items that went the downgrade road. Ember world on fire, Chatchmoon, Bramma, Mesa's "death blossom" while running and so on. 6 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said: Warframe is a one man army, the "role" of each warframe is very loose. The main problem with War Frame. War frame should be team based not co-op game. 6 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said: Also I don't understand the second half of this paragraph. We only get to donate 1 out of 4 and replace 1 out of 4 of our abilities, and it's the weakest ability at that. There's still difference between each warframes. And what's with the last 2 questions, they have nothing to this new mechanic. Assign one of the utilities like fast running of Tracer to Orisa. Same principle applies to War Frames. Their abilities are their identity. 6 hours ago, (PS4)caoshen0625 said: They still do tho, I mean after replace one ability... War frame abilities makes them unique. Transporting abilities makes the tier way too convoluted, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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