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I don't understand elemental damages


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Hi

I was actually arguing with a friend about the Status chances & elemental damages.

I always tought that Status Chances increased the chances of proc of elemental damages as well as status.

But he told me today that the elemental damages always proc whatever my status chances are.

So if it turns out that he's right, then i don't understand what's the point of status chances, because i already kill every ennemy in a blink of an eye, even until their level 150

So it would be even more useless considering that i lost lots of DPS on the status chances that could have been used for more critical damages etc.

So in conclusion, there is my question : Do the status chances increase the chances of procs of elemental damages, or is it only the status effects.

It's not explained clearly anywhere..

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Not completely sure what you are asking but here goes.

Status percentage says how likely it is that a status occurs on enemy when you hit it with said weapon.

Example 1: Weapon has status chance 50% = each hit has 50% chance it will proc status.

Example 2: Weapon has status chance 125% = each hit has 100% chance it will proc status and 25% chance it will proc 2 statuses

 

Type of status depends on final damage distribution:

Example: Weapon does 1000 damage distributed in 250 Puncture, 250 Slash, 500 Viral. If status occurs there is 25% chance for Puncture status, 25% chance for Slash and 50% chance for Viral.

 

Melee weapons have it a bit different because if you use certain stance that stance might have guaranteed Status proc on certain moves so the weapon will never proc different status unless it has status chance over 100% on that move.

 

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Status procs are for longer missions, level 150 is pretty low. When you have enemies at say level 1000 and they have all the armour in the world and you can't even dent them with your high crit gun, you may be wishing you brought status elementals to strip armour, proc viral etc. It's also used for increasing damage with other weapons by increasing the amount of proc types inflicted upon the enemy.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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6 minutes ago, svegurok said:

Melee weapons have it a bit different because if you use certain stance that stance might have guaranteed Status proc on certain moves so the weapon will never proc different status unless it has status chance over 100% on that move.

Just to clarify, because I always thought it was different:

Does this mean that guaranteed procs on melee weapons override chance procs, so a viral melee will never proc viral on the attack that guarantees a slash proc, or is it like the Artax where the guaranteed proc will always occur but there is still a chance that the chance proc can occur as well?

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So, the damages of the weapon will not be influenced by the status chances?

I thought it worked like criticals, like 150% chances of status = 100% chances of double elemental dmg & 50% chances to triple elemental damages

Is it wrong?

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5 minutes ago, Kurohoku said:

So, the damages of the weapon will not be influenced by the status chances?

I thought it worked like criticals, like 150% chances of status = 100% chances of double elemental dmg & 50% chances to triple elemental damages

Is it wrong?

It is wrong, you get the normal damage, 100% of the elemental damage and one definite status proc and a 50% chance of the second one I think.

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16 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Just to clarify, because I always thought it was different:

Does this mean that guaranteed procs on melee weapons override chance procs, so a viral melee will never proc viral on the attack that guarantees a slash proc, or is it like the Artax where the guaranteed proc will always occur but there is still a chance that the chance proc can occur as well?

The chance is only there for another proc appart from guaranteed one if you have over 100% status chance.

 

9 minutes ago, Kurohoku said:

So, the damages of the weapon will not be influenced by the status chances?

I thought it worked like criticals, like 150% chances of status = 100% chances of double elemental dmg & 50% chances to triple elemental damages

Is it wrong?

Damage won't be influenced by status chance. Status type will be influenced by damage distribution.

It does not matter if it is elemental or physical damage. Status works as I wrote before. 150% status means 1 status proc + 50% chance for 2nd status proc.

Edited by svegurok
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Just now, AltheusVI said:

It is wrong, you get the normal damage, 100% of the elemental damage and one definite status proc and a 50% chance of the second one I think.

pretty much this.

Status chance only affect the dot/debuff you apply to mob, anything above 100% will give you chance to add another debuff/dot each hit.

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il y a 1 minute, svegurok a dit :

It does not matter if it is elemental or physical damage. Status works as I wrote before. 150% status means 1 status proc + 50% chance for 2nd status proc.

Status type depends on damage distribution as i wrote before.

2 status proc doesn't mean 2 damages proc, right?

 

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il y a 3 minutes, smashedwookie a dit :

pretty much this.

Status chance only affect the dot/debuff you apply to mob, anything above 100% will give you chance to add another debuff/dot each hit.

Alright thank you then, status chances are completely useless on ennemies under lvl 200, right?

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21 minutes ago, Tyreaus said:

Just to clarify, because I always thought it was different:

Does this mean that guaranteed procs on melee weapons override chance procs, so a viral melee will never proc viral on the attack that guarantees a slash proc, or is it like the Artax where the guaranteed proc will always occur but there is still a chance that the chance proc can occur as well?

I've tested this, but not since before the last status rework.  Back then, if you got the forced proc, you couldn't get a natural proc.   I think it's worth testing again since we can now get multiple procs (with 101% status) on one damage instance.  I could imagine  DE accidentally(?) changing that behavior.

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3 minutes ago, Kurohoku said:

Alright thank you then, status chances are completely useless on ennemies under lvl 200, right?

Not really statuses can be very much useful on some tougher enemies or as a mean to crowd control them. Heat, apart from stripping armor and damaging enemy over time, incurs Panic status when enemy is flailing around not shooting. Electricity status does damage over time and stuns enemy and so on.

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7 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I've tested this, but not since before the last status rework.  Back then, if you got the forced proc, you couldn't get a natural proc.   I think it's worth testing again since we can now get multiple procs (with 101% status) on one damage instance.  I could imagine  DE accidentally(?) changing that behavior.

Yeah I just checked it now and the first hit from Iron Phoenix's standing combo 1. guarantees slash procs and 2. can proc viral when using only 2x 60/60 mods (on a Dakra Prime).

Edited by Tyreaus
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Status chance increase your chance to proc any status effect, both physical and elemental. Let's make a weapon for example:

The weapon have:

  • Semi-auto.
  • 20% status chance.
  • 50 Impact damage.
  • 50 Puncture damage.
  • 50 Slash damage.
  • The weapon is unmodded.

This weapon have 20% chance with each hit to proc ONE if the status effects between Impact, Puncture and Slash. Because Slash is higher then the other two damage types, the 20% status chance split like this: 6.6666% chance you will get an Impact status effect + 6.6666% chance you will get a Puncture status effect + 6.6666% chance you will get a Slash status effect = 20% status chance, only one of them will proc.
This is per hit.

Now let's say you add elemental mods and the weapon now have an additional 50 Toxin damage. Status chance doesn't change.
Like before, only one of the damage types will proc and only 20% for it to happen. The chance for each type of status effects has chanced. IPS takes priority and is more likely to proc then the Toxin status effect you have there, even tho all of your damage types are equal. For more chances to proc an elemental status effect, make sure your elemental damage deals at least 4 times more damage then your IPS.

All of this doesn't change the fact you have only 20% chance to proc a status effect and 80% chance to proc nothing. Of course, 100%+ means you proc at least one status effect with some chance to proc an additional one.
Status doesn't always proc. Your friend see a lot of procing because he hits too fast to notice if it didn't proc.

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As a side note: rivens with -puncture and -impact are really popular as long as they have some good stats with it like critical damage and multishot for example. Do not ever reroll a riven with said Stats and do not ever sell them for cheap. 

When you get into higher levels, hitting an enemy just makes them float and fly all over the place and its super annoying.

Changing the weight of a weapons IPS will make things like slash and whatever element you put on your weapon proc more and make impact and puncture proc less. 

This is why a "god roll" is something like 

+crit damage

+crit chance

+multishot/melee damage/toxin etc

-impact

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1 hour ago, Kurohoku said:


I always tought that Status Chances increased the chances of proc of elemental damages as well as status.

I'm already confused 😮 !!!

1 hour ago, Kurohoku said:

But he told me today that the elemental damages always proc whatever my status chances are.

Okay this I know is Incorrect.

1 hour ago, Kurohoku said:

So in conclusion, there is my question : Do the status chances increase the chances of procs of elemental damages, or is it only the status effects.

And I'm confused even more now.... 😞

1 hour ago, Tyreaus said:

Just to clarify, because I always thought it was different:

Does this mean that guaranteed procs on melee weapons override chance procs, so a viral melee will never proc viral on the attack that guarantees a slash proc, or is it like the Artax where the guaranteed proc will always occur but there is still a chance that the chance proc can occur as well?

In this case It's more like the Artax... You will get the guaranteed Proc and a chance to Proc something else aswell. 

1 hour ago, Kurohoku said:

So, the damages of the weapon will not be influenced by the status chances?

I thought it worked like criticals, like 150% chances of status = 100% chances of double elemental dmg & 50% chances to triple elemental damages

Is it wrong?

I think the part that is confusing is the Elemental Damage part.

Status and Critical Chance doesn't favour or effect Different Damage Types differently.... It works the same way regardless of Damage Type.

1 hour ago, Kurohoku said:

Alright thank you then, status chances are completely useless on ennemies under lvl 200, right?

Depends on the Enemy...

 

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15 hours ago, Tyreaus said:

Yeah I just checked it now and the first hit from Iron Phoenix's standing combo 1. guarantees slash procs and 2. can proc viral when using only 2x 60/60 mods (on a Dakra Prime).

I totally misread your question. My answer to the question you actually and very clearly did ask should have been, "When I tested this last year before the status rework, I had no trouble getting forced procs from stances or HM on the same damage instance as natural procs of a different type.  I  could not, however, get multiple slash procs from the same damage instance." 

But it's funny, I decided to retest this and I learned a couple of things. 

 - With a forced proc, I can now get multiple slash procs of the same type from one damage instance.  I tested this with a Homing Fang Sheev forward-block attack, and with a Hunter Munitions 0-multi Nagantaka.  Both with sub 100% status chance.  

That's a big deal.  Maybe this is well known now, but it's new to me and definitely not the way it used to work.  There's no way to be certain, but I would not be surprised if this was an accidental side-effect of enabling multiple procs on 101% status chance.

 - Less important, but pertinent to your test...I tried doing this with an Iron Phoenix neutral attack with a couple of different swords, and was getting too many procs from one swing, including 2x elemental.   The simplest explanation is that the wiki is mistaken about the first combo only having one hit.

 

Edited by Tiltskillet
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Say you got 500 fire damage on weapon the enemies will allways take fire damage. But deppending on your status 1%  it will only have 1% chance to burn the targets armor down but if you have 100% it will allways add the armor burning on the target.

This is my understanding on damage i might be wrong tho for during the first 2 years I played I thought you had to have status chance for fire to even hit.

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7 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

Less important, but pertinent to your test...I tried doing this with an Iron Phoenix neutral attack with a couple of different swords, and was getting too many procs from one swing, including 2x elemental.   The simplest explanation is that the wiki is mistaken about the first combo only having one hit.

Something I've noticed change recently is that some hits are counting as multiples on the combo counter. They don't seem to be counting as multiples for things like shattering impact (I had a discussion with someone about the Stropha upping the combo counter by 4 before), but there are a lot of cases where attacks that used to increase the counter by just one now increase it by multiples - usually related to damage multipliers on the stance (so IIRC first hit of Iron Phoenix ups the counter by 4, 1 + 3 for the 300% multiplier). I wonder if that has something to do with it, as if the game is creating stance damage multipliers by overlaying attack instances. Not sure why they'd do that, maybe optimization...

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22 hours ago, FrostedMike said:

IPS takes priority and is more likely to proc then the Toxin status effect you have there, even tho all of your damage types are equal. For more chances to proc an elemental status effect, make sure your elemental damage deals at least 4 times more damage then your IPS.

This is false. When DE changed status effects they also removed the 4x weighting on IPS damage. Now IPS has the same proc chance as elemental if both the IPS and elemental deal the same amount of damage.

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21 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I'm already confused 😮 !!!

Okay this I know is Incorrect.

And I'm confused even more now.... 😞

In this case It's more like the Artax... You will get the guaranteed Proc and a chance to Proc something else aswell. 

I think the part that is confusing is the Elemental Damage part.

Status and Critical Chance doesn't favour or effect Different Damage Types differently.... It works the same way regardless of Damage Type.

Depends on the Enemy...

 

The problem is that the OP is using the term 'proc' for dealing damage, not just applying a status.

The best I can interpret it is that he thought that an attack only did elemental damage if it applied a status effect, but was recently told that is wrong, and now wonders what the point of status is if crit lets him one-shot level 150 enemies.

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Yeah, just to clarify if the above is true, your physical damage + elements always deal their damage on every hit. Status chance is the chance to proc a secondary effect, like bleeding, armor stripping, ect.

  

8 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I totally misread your question. My answer to the question you actually and very clearly did ask should have been, "When I tested this last year before the status rework, I had no trouble getting forced procs from stances or HM on the same damage instance as natural procs of a different type.  I  could not, however, get multiple slash procs from the same damage instance." 

But it's funny, I decided to retest this and I learned a couple of things. 

 - With a forced proc, I can now get multiple slash procs of the same type from one damage instance.  I tested this with a Homing Fang Sheev forward-block attack, and with a Hunter Munitions 0-multi Nagantaka.  Both with sub 100% status chance.  

That's a big deal.  Maybe this is well known now, but it's new to me and definitely not the way it used to work.  There's no way to be certain, but I would not be surprised if this was an accidental side-effect of enabling multiple procs on 101% status chance.

 - Less important, but pertinent to your test...I tried doing this with an Iron Phoenix neutral attack with a couple of different swords, and was getting too many procs from one swing, including 2x elemental.   The simplest explanation is that the wiki is mistaken about the first combo only having one hit.

 

Yep, definitely used to only be able to proc any specific status once per single pellet/hit. I used to run a -100% slash Glaive riven because it has the guaranteed slash procs on throws/explosions, any natural slash procs on it were just wasted. Obviously I've rerolled it since then, and now I'm getting 2-3 slash procs per hit. 

I'm going to choose to believe it's a natural, intended side effect of allowing statuses to stack, rather then an unintended one 😛

Edited by rapt0rman
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