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Warframe PvP, but without Warframes?


Shronkle

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This might not be an original idea, but with couldn't a new PvP mode come out that doesn't have the player fight in warframes?

Now I'm not jumping onto the NecroMech PvP bandwagon here (They were designed for PvE after all), but instead maybe modular 'Battleframes' (and modular as in parts can easily be swapped in/out after being built instead of baked in like zaws) that are purely designed for PvP.

These 'Battleframes' could be like robot fights, where a pilot controls the frame from a cockpit, and only work within a battleframe arena. It isn't too far fetched to have more then one arena show in the warframe universe (Rathuum can only be watched soo many times) and bots could be implemented in the form of non-tenno pilots, maybe Eudico fancies some robot fighting in her spare time? 

The frames could have 1 or 2 abilities that depend on the 'chasis' used and then other parts added could give slight changes (like perks in other PvP games, these would also replace the normal mod system to help with balancing) you could even limit the types of weapons used to specific battleframes or weight classes of battle frames, only heavy frames can use miniguns and only light frames sub machine guns. Even the weapons used would only allow 1 or 2 mods, similar to other PvP games.

I would love to see a game mode that doesn't try to adapt PvE elements into a PvP environment but is instead designed focusing on PvP. I don't want to have to furiously search through discords to find warframe players that want to have PvP mathces. If playing against both bots and players gives conclave standing (although less standing from bots then players) would be a massive incentive to actually que for the conclave matches, rather then how it is currently, que for an hour and not even find another player, players would be guaranteed to find a match to get standing from (meaning more peeps will be quing therefore increasing the odds of players playing the gamemode.)

I think a 'BattleFrame' gamemode would be great at revitalising the stale PvP we currently have in warframe.

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On 2020-08-11 at 2:27 AM, Shronkle said:

This might not be an original idea, but with couldn't a new PvP mode come out that doesn't have the player fight in warframes?

Now I'm not jumping onto the NecroMech PvP bandwagon here (They were designed for PvE after all), but instead maybe modular 'Battleframes' (and modular as in parts can easily be swapped in/out after being built instead of baked in like zaws) that are purely designed for PvP.

These 'Battleframes' could be like robot fights, where a pilot controls the frame from a cockpit, and only work within a battleframe arena. It isn't too far fetched to have more then one arena show in the warframe universe (Rathuum can only be watched soo many times) and bots could be implemented in the form of non-tenno pilots, maybe Eudico fancies some robot fighting in her spare time? 

The frames could have 1 or 2 abilities that depend on the 'chasis' used and then other parts added could give slight changes (like perks in other PvP games, these would also replace the normal mod system to help with balancing) you could even limit the types of weapons used to specific battleframes or weight classes of battle frames, only heavy frames can use miniguns and only light frames sub machine guns. Even the weapons used would only allow 1 or 2 mods, similar to other PvP games.

I would love to see a game mode that doesn't try to adapt PvE elements into a PvP environment but is instead designed focusing on PvP. I don't want to have to furiously search through discords to find warframe players that want to have PvP mathces. If playing against both bots and players gives conclave standing (although less standing from bots then players) would be a massive incentive to actually que for the conclave matches, rather then how it is currently, que for an hour and not even find another player, players would be guaranteed to find a match to get standing from (meaning more peeps will be quing therefore increasing the odds of players playing the gamemode.)

I think a 'BattleFrame' gamemode would be great at revitalising the stale PvP we currently have in warframe.

Titanfall-2-Detail-Cover.jpg

Or you could go play this instead.

 

Warframe PvP should be about Warframes. People play Warframe for Warframes not for Power Ranger robots, both in PvE and PvP. 

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On 2020-08-14 at 3:30 AM, Tachmag said:

Warframe PvP should be about Warframes. People play Warframe for Warframes not for Power Ranger robots, both in PvE and PvP. 

Aight so maybe I didn't write it properly, but the whole point of it was:
Use psuedo warframes (battleframes or whatever) that are actually designed for PvP in PvP.
Don't try to shoehorn frames and weapons that are designed to kill masses of enemies into a PvP experience and expect it to be balanced.

And last I checked people don't play PvP in warframe (note this is hyperbolic). Being able to que for a solid 30 mins (in oceana at least) and not find a single player shows that people don't want to play the current PvP, so why not try to spice it up a bit? 

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1 hour ago, Shronkle said:

Aight so maybe I didn't write it properly, but the whole point of it was:
Use psuedo warframes (battleframes or whatever) that are actually designed for PvP in PvP.
Don't try to shoehorn frames and weapons that are designed to kill masses of enemies into a PvP experience and expect it to be balanced.

And last I checked people don't play PvP in warframe (note this is hyperbolic). Being able to que for a solid 30 mins (in oceana at least) and not find a single player shows that people don't want to play the current PvP, so why not try to spice it up a bit? 

The devs had quite a good handle on balance while they were still actively working on it (my impression from back in 2016/2017, before I took a long break). Things have deteriorated since, though, and especially since The Old Blood.

Edit: Maybe you're not aware that Conclave has separate stats?

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I do think restricting weapon choice down to Warframe choice is a bit overkill. Having the freedom to mix and match some is part of Warframe - and really, many shooters in general. But I can see some merit in having a Conclave-specific roster of (importantly non-modular) Warframes - and weapons, while we're at it. It's not just about making future balance revisions easier but also things like, making the mode more accessible (e.g. not having to do PvE to get equipment for PvP or sort through a list of 100+ weapons) and giving abilities and weapons an appropriate feel instead of "here's an ability you know as super-overpowered in PvE Warframe, sorry about the busted kneecaps". Seriously, Mend and Maim as an ability in a 1v1 situation...how does that even remotely work?

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5 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

Edit: Maybe you're not aware that Conclave has separate stats?

I get that but from what i know the abilities are very similar to PvP abilities (again never actually been able to play a conclave match in all of my 1000 hours of play time)
which i assume would make them difficult to balance properly, like mags sphere will still create a big sucky zone around the enemy, or oberons reckoning still cc'ing enemies for a short amount of time.

(Side Note and also very unrelated) I know peeps that are really attached to warframe but wouldn't it be cool if we got to experience the warframe universe from the perspective of something that isn't an overpowered space ninja? Like imagine planetside 2 but its grineer, corpus and infestation, that'd be pretty dope, not gonna happen though. 

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3 minutes ago, Shronkle said:

I get that but from what i know the abilities are very similar to PvP abilities (again never actually been able to play a conclave match in all of my 1000 hours of play time)
which i assume would make them difficult to balance properly, like mags sphere will still create a big sucky zone around the enemy, or oberons reckoning still cc'ing enemies for a short amount of time.

(Side Note and also very unrelated) I know peeps that are really attached to warframe but wouldn't it be cool if we got to experience the warframe universe from the perspective of something that isn't an overpowered space ninja? Like imagine planetside 2 but its grineer, corpus and infestation, that'd be pretty dope, not gonna happen though. 

There are still a few somewhat problematic abilities (some of those due to PvE changes which can bleed over), but most are at an acceptable level because they have reduced stats (damage, range, duration, etc.), and single-target abilities have to be somewhat on point or they're missing entirely, i.e. consume energy but don't have any effect.

Some abilities received entirely new effects, e.g. Nyx' Chaos enables friendly fire in team modes and all teammates appear as enemies, too.

Mag's Magnetize bubble is much smaller and bullets do reduced, not increased damage. It only lasts for 4s, so it's possible to e.g. outrun that, or use melee to block.

 

Regarding the side note: my stance on that is that playing a dedicated game is probably the better experience, and yes I'm playing this for the Warframes. Of course, if they went down that road I'd give it a try before judging because you never know, but I prefer what we have. And with as little time they're willing to put into current Conclave, I don't really see it happening anyway.

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7 hours ago, Shronkle said:

(Side Note and also very unrelated) I know peeps that are really attached to warframe but wouldn't it be cool if we got to experience the warframe universe from the perspective of something that isn't an overpowered space ninja? Like imagine planetside 2 but its grineer, corpus and infestation, that'd be pretty dope, not gonna happen though. 

As a separate game, I'd be for it. Warframe is about Warframes, and the game engine is designed as much, but Warframes do see a limited scope of what's going on in the wider universe. There might be potential for interesting side-stories in some kind of spin-off. (Though commercial viability is another matter...)

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  • 2 weeks later...

The current conclave already feels like Warframe without Warframes. Sure, you are wearing a warframe, but that doesn't mean that it is. The difference in power for PVE and PVP is so great  that I suspect most players don't get into the PVP scene for this reason. People who got so comfortable with the OP ways of tanking and killing in PVE mode will find the sudden stripping away of all powers pretty jarring when trying out conclave.

 

And I don't know why you are not on board the Necramech PVP. The Necramechs by design fit a PVP situation much better than Warframes do. They are a middle ground between the PVE power levels of Warframe and PVP power levels of Warframe. Not as strong as some of the slaughterhouse frames (Mesa, Saryn, Ember, etc.) in PVE modes, but still stronger than the weakened power levels of PVP-mode warframes. Necramechs maintain some degree of power fantasy, and will be less jarring. I already enjoyed using them during my short run with Snake in Heart of Deimos. Furthermore, Necramech mobility is also not as haphazardly unpredictable as bullet jumping, but they still do offer a good variety of movement options. Better, at least, than some of those suggestions I've seen where people say "delete bullet jump completely for pvp". 

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On 2020-08-26 at 7:43 AM, Xepthrichros said:

The current conclave already feels like Warframe without Warframes. Sure, you are wearing a warframe, but that doesn't mean that it is. The difference in power for PVE and PVP is so great  that I suspect most players don't get into the PVP scene for this reason. People who got so comfortable with the OP ways of tanking and killing in PVE mode will find the sudden stripping away of all powers pretty jarring when trying out conclave.

 

And I don't know why you are not on board the Necramech PVP. The Necramechs by design fit a PVP situation much better than Warframes do. They are a middle ground between the PVE power levels of Warframe and PVP power levels of Warframe. Not as strong as some of the slaughterhouse frames (Mesa, Saryn, Ember, etc.) in PVE modes, but still stronger than the weakened power levels of PVP-mode warframes. Necramechs maintain some degree of power fantasy, and will be less jarring. I already enjoyed using them during my short run with Snake in Heart of Deimos. Furthermore, Necramech mobility is also not as haphazardly unpredictable as bullet jumping, but they still do offer a good variety of movement options.The Necramechs by design fit a PVP situation much better than Warframes do. Better, at least, than some of those suggestions I've seen where people say "delete bullet jump completely for pvp". 

1)"People who got so comfortable with the OP ways of tanking and killing in PVE mode will find the sudden stripping away of all powers pretty jarring when trying out conclave." 

How do you expect to have a competitive mode in which everyone simultaneously tanks everything but also kills everything in one hit? 

 

 

2)" The Necramechs by design fit a PVP situation much better than Warframes do (...)  Furthermore, Necramech mobility is also not as haphazardly unpredictable as bullet jumping, but they still do offer a good variety of movement options." 

 

Necramechs have absolutely no mobility. You have the choice of awkwardly shuffling in place, doing a very easy to hit glide and doing a slow dash along the floor. 

If DE made Necramech PvP then it'd be the lowest skill ceiling shooter in the market by far.

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