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The Helminth: Dev Workshop


[DE]Rebecca

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43 minutes ago, (PS4)DidelphisV said:

How lame are you people? No inspiration whatsoever. You just immediately jump for damage buffs without even considering the alternatives. We’re getting so many good abilities, but you can’t process anything more than “hurr durr bigger numbers”

Meanwhile I’ll be using actual fun stuff like Ensnare on Atlas, and Condem on Hildryn.

I think most of people are talking about MR requirement and not damage buffs getting nerf

Also in my opinion endgame tennos should have specific content to do, because the game have a great early game, a very solid mid game, but in the late game you have nothing to do

Just saying a friend from dota2 played 100 hours of warframe with me , he is mr10, he have: mesa prime, kuva bramma, kuva nukor, energize maxed, guardian maxed, and more 100 hours means like 1 month of casual gameplay. He already quit and he actually doesnt understeand much about warframe, he cant even move properly, he doesnt understeand how corrosive works, how viral works, but is there ready to do everything

And if you are asking "for sure you carried him the entire videogame" the joke is for example in SS i did my runs alone with random people and he did runs with random people, that means people actually carry him

what im trying to say: Warframe its a very very good videogame, but doesnt have exclusive content. Doesnt matter if you have 200, 2000 or 10000 hours, you can get top tier gear very soon, and after that you are going to farm random stuff or build really bad gear for no reason..

At the end, i hope this new content have some good reward, call it a super good combo using off meta warframes or something making worth farm all warframes again, because doesnt feel great farm an entire week like crazy and get "meh" ability

Steel path its a very solid start, they should add more missions there like profit taker, exploiter, events, everything steel path, but rewards need a tweak, because so far at this moment the best reward  you can get is kuva paying resources booster and drop chance booster (80p) and actually almost the entire community agree with this: rivens/kuva are a terrible system, its just terrible

The game need content worth to grind, worth to keep playing the same content, if reward is high doesnt matter if hard or you need something to do it, you will do it because the reward is nice

For example railjack at this moment, you can lvl up your gear, everything, alone doing 4 mins gian point runs solo, or 2 mins with group. Rewards are meh: Relics, riven slivers, but the most important thing is affinity you not need a saryn in santuary to actually lvl up your gear, you can do it alone. Bad news, the only mission worth to do is gian point, and if you catch anomally you need to wait

If you have naramon, and affinity booster you can lvl up your melee from 0 to 30 in one run, and yes to reach 2 mins runs, you need a good railjack, good avionics, some practice, its not easy to reach, rewards are meh, but affinity is nice. So i can call it worth it

Fortuna: Kitguns, Moas, Kdrive are mediocre. Lockdown, repair you can buy it with pl and the only gear worth to farm in entire fortuna are propa and certus amp (this apply if you do eidolon hunts, if you not care hunts, ignore this) So actually at this moment why you are going to farm fortuna when 90% of rewards there are meh, some months ago at least catchmoon was stronger and people was farming reputation and resources at least for catchmoon, and generally people have 2 o 3 catchmoon, just for the variable (full crit, hybrid, low magazine etc) but right now are a joke

Arbitration:  After so many tweaks, arbitration is worth to do, you get very good mods, endo, kuva, decent arcanes, but in my opinion have a problem, you have like 30 rewards in one mission, its just too much, but at the end nothing can be perfect, i call it worth to do i recommend to everyone play arbitration

 

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10 minutes ago, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler said:

OP for sure says "very experienced warframe players" 

Does MR 8 say very experienced Players to you?

MR rank doesn't say anything about "experienced" to me, because Hydron exists.  And "experienced players" doesn't mean "endgame."

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Haha, this happens every time. You should really be expecting it by now. As usual the experience will be lackluster, the new content will be stretched to the limit and every gameplay related thing (mission types etc.) will be made with the lowest possible effort. Also all the systems and stuff they showed off that you are imagining would be complex and connected will be disconnected and simple, as always.

The only thing that's consistently good in this game is the art and sound and if you get hyped for anything else than that you just set yourself up for disappointment.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

Reb actually said several abilities were due to be buffed for the system during her interview with Shy on August 3rd when she revealed Zephyr's chosen ability and the buff. I don't know what happened.

They did technically buff it.  The problem is that it's still basically useless.  Twice as good as zero is still zero.  😞

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Dear DE,

Please. At this point I am not sure that even you all internally know what the system is and who it is meant for. There are far too many contradictions in intention and current thought of implementation for this be any form of well-fleshed out and polished. You say one thing and do the other. This would be why everyone is in the tizzy that they are currently in and this update is not even released yet. We have arrived at this stage not during the first few days of the Heart of Deimos but six days before the release date. I can only imagine what it will look like after it drops.

Please ask yourselves who this is meant for. You say you don't intend to let less-experienced players participate but have substantially lowered the requirement to MR 8. The average MR 8 player does not have the inventory needed to meaningfully participate. They are bound to have WAY less options and MORE risk in the mismanagement/misuse of the system. MR15 was a solid option as by that point the player would have more experience in the vast systems/items the game has to offer. 

Please ask yourselves what you hope to accomplish by offering Helminth to your players. You select a few specific powers that the community has reacted to strongly and have called out for being either signature/too powerful and the solution is putting alternative rules on them when wielded by other warframes that are not the original user. This system was bound to have wonky balancing and this doesn't help. 

The prospect of Helminth is exciting for offering new and customized movesets. After having a good week or two from TennoCon to critically think about the implications of the system as you have described it seems only to be super problematic currently and in the future. Might I suggest just removing the current Warframe powers from the system and offering more unique Helminth powers? Perhaps replacing the less exciting ones such as the instant-hack one. Helminth powers should be reasonable and meaningful options to compliment or supplement a Warframes kit. This gives room to create new and exciting powers down the road and a way to keep the Helminth system sustainable. You can always add more options and ranks in the future. Including Warframe powers in the Helminth system, as many have pointed out in feedback, while exciting initially may lead to some balancing issues and more rounds of alternate rules potentially down the road which will not be pleasant for many. It seems sloppy and troublesome especially down the road as more Warframes are brought into the game. Perhaps Helminth can offer powers influenced by certain groups of Warframes that can be unlocked by subsuming a Warframe from that group. This method still honors the subsuming part of the system.

You guys know better than I how you'd like the game to be and if your vision would still include being able to unlock specific powers from our Warframes then perhaps another method instead of having these alternate rules would be to replace those powers with other less problematic powers and having Helminth offer a generic ability of a similar role. For example a temporary damage boost only for the player that uses it that while not as strong as Roar/Eclipse and does not affect the team has the flexibility of being used by any warframe that perhaps lacks a temporary damage boost. Perhaps also a damage reduction or an armor up ability in the same vein as Defy that again while not as strong as a Warframe power has the flexibility of being used by another warframe that would benefit off having it. The flexibility of generic Helminth powers that could be used by any Warframe to supplement or compliment an existing move set is a strong component of the system that should be taken advantage of.   

Thank you for making it this far if you did!

Sincerely,

One concerned Tenno

@[DE]Megan @[DE]Rebecca

 

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On 2020-08-12 at 6:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15)

Wait, no. 15 was about right. Maybe to low. 8? Who cares about 8? Everyone has 8 by the time they beat the War Within.

DE: builds something for long time players looking for messing about with end game ideas.

Players who haven't even finished half the content they have yet: 😭

DE: ok baby don't cry you can have it.

DE: nerfs the thing because now new players have it too.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

I guess it's way less work to nerf the best abilities than to buff the bad ones.

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En 12/8/2020 a las 12:27, [DE]Rebecca dijo:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15

I think that this should be deeper in the progress , a mastery rank 8 could break the game infusing a good ability in a good warframe (considering the nerf to all buffing abilities ) almost mastery rank 15 or even 20 

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2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped


Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.


PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

You guys funneled in mostly garbage skills from the other frames, of course these were overwhelmingly going to be the go to skills.

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Why would you change it to mastery from 15 to 8. No thats just no.... Newer player can get up to mastery 8 easily and seeing they have to dump more resources into another system is just confusing for them. Let them grow as they do the game..... Mastery 15 is balanced where they know what to do and have some left off resources to use in this system. 

 

The nerfs are completely NOT understandable. Rhino needs to be a rhino, and etc......   BUFF THE OTHER POWERS of the other frames thats why we only going to use those powers instend the other useless ones

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To the people who are saying that the nerfs on the subsumed versions of the abilities are justified because it leaves a reason to play the original Warframe, doesn't that just point to a bigger problem? If one ability on a frame being available to all takes away any reason to play that frame, doesn't that just mean that the frame's kit is the issue and needs a rework? If that's the case, wouldn't it benefit it to be played by fewer people for a while (because people can use the "useful" ability elsewhere) since that is one of the big indicators to DE as to what needs a rework and what doesn't?

Also, as others have pointed out, I'm just so amused that the promise of delivering what was shown at Tennocon has already fallen through a bit, nerfs before it is even out and the system for veteran players suddenly becomes more new player friendly.

 

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hace 13 minutos, Jarriaga dijo:

Reb actually said several abilities were due to be buffed for the system during her interview with Shy on August 3rd when she revealed Zephyr's chosen ability and the buff. I don't know what happened.

she meant buff by nerfing the good ones

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On 2020-08-12 at 2:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

Not gonna lie, you guys did everything right in this update. Until now.

The entire idea of this system was to be a deep customizable system made for EXPERIENCED players (AKA Veterans and players that actually play the game) and now it isn't anymore.

Again, you guys just listen to the casuals and new players that only play the game for two weeks and gives the middle finger to veterans in the end.

The MR requirement SHOULD GO UP NOT DOWN. The game have a lack of veteran systems that makes new players have a reason to grind and level up. The Helminth System would be a incredible start.

I'm still hyped for the system but this change is horrible. Revert it.

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8 minutes ago, EmberStar said:

MR rank doesn't say anything about "experienced" to me, because Hydron exists.  And "experienced players" doesn't mean "endgame."

"Very experienced players" also doesn't mean a player played for no more than one month. Which is all it takes to get MR 8 while Not trying. And I base this not only from the 24h required but also MR points required.

What would you consider a better lock?

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I expected nothing and... honestly I was surprised, but in current year we can't have nice things anymore.

Honestly out of the nerfed abilitys I only planned to maybe use defy on excalibur for a little more survivability and Dispenser for the energy hungry frames.

My hopes still lie on EMPOWER and the other Helminth abilities. Maybe it would have been smart to just indroduce Helminth abilities so that the people couldn't whine about their favourite ability not being unique to its origin warframe anymore.

PS: DE when do you learn its not a good idea to hide this systems behind timegated grind wall.s

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I think that Mastery 8 is too low as many others have said. 15 was good and 20 (as suggested by some) was ridiculous. Maybe something like 12-14 if you have to go lower than 15. Basically it should be absolutely locked behind the Sacrifice/New War. Not only does this make sense narratively it also makes sense as far as player mastery is concerned. I understand that most folks get this around MR 10.

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Justo ahora, (PS4)IrOrphanCrippler dijo:

"Very experienced players" also doesn't mean a player played for no more than one month. Which is all it takes to get MR 8 while Not trying. And I base this not only from the 24h required but also MR points required.

What would you consider a better lock?

MR 12 pls 😄

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