(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, _junguler said: rip roar, the only thing i was looking forward to from the list, way to kill excitement before the update even hits ... This is precisely why they are nerfing it and it's justified. Be glad they didn't outright replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Daemon2688 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, PancakeLord333 said: Nerfing abilities now means there are effectively 2 Roars 2 Eclipses, 2 Larva abilities (so on so fourth) each with different stats IMO this is incredibly bad, It kind of smells like conclave-esque balancing to me [aka balancing hell] Its going to be OPAQUE as hell for any player that isnt prepared to sink a lot of time into checking the different stats on the Wiki (because as we all know, half of our actual warframe playtime is actually spent on the wiki) Its only going to get worse with time - like riven balance. What if in a few months, or after a balancing patch, someone finds some uber mega cheesy build with Infused power X on warframe Y - is DE going to start nerfing that one too? Are we going to eventually end up with near on 40 duplicated powers with different stats? This is setting a ludicrous precedent. DE go back and pick the less meta powers for those warframes (e.g. mirage #2, rhino #1) instead of ofuscating and spaghettifying what was an otherwise interesting late game mechanic. Or, better than nerfing, OR changing which ability it is.... Just let us have nice things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSiawPrime Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Can we get some actual numbers on the abilities nerfed? It is a 10% nerf on the base ability? Or a 50%? 80%?. Also adding another cap on the 83% DR on Wukong subsumed ability will just make us use the 90% DR that Nova has, this further proves that DE doesn’t play their own game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_junguler Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just now, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said: This is precisely why they are nerfing it and it's justified. Be glad they didn't outright replace it. i don't really care about other powers tho, nerfing this means i probably don't bother with the whole system now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urlan Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, IceBen said: Just remove abilities if they are so obviously better. Nerfing a good ability won't make bad abilities better, it will mean that we use a nerfed ability or we end up not getting an ability from that frame at all we could use. I agree that would be the most logical if this is considered a required step pre-launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHalfsightedOne Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 God dangit DE. This is a system where you D E L E T E F U L L Y B U I L T F R A M E S. It DESERVED to be strong, and high mastery locked ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz_TTV Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said: Would you like to let it be released and then nerfed so people would cry even more? since you asked my opinion yes I would. At least we get to have some fun first then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, _junguler said: i don't really care about other powers tho, nerfing this means i probably don't bother with the whole system now ... As I said before even if they nerf it to unmodded strength it's still 50%. It's a 1.5x multiplier to everything you do. It's still going to be MILES better than 90% of the whole workshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, _junguler said: roar was the perfect pick for my wisp and her buffing flowers, maybe i put defy on her but she's already surviving everything, shrug. there are frames other than wisp, and other interesting choices for wisp to replace her poorly scaling ult. equinox 2 for example, look it up, it increases damage enemies take which is good with wisp 3 using wisp for her 1 only, and buffing that ability, is extremely boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyus Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, (PS4)Daemon2688 said: Just let us have nice things. Hahaha, no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, PancakeLord333 said: DE go back and pick the less meta powers for those warframes (e.g. mirage #2, rhino #1) instead of obfuscating and spaghettifying what was an otherwise interesting late game mechanic. No. I want Eclipse on Umbra. Just restrict already OP frames from using those abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)frosty 117360 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Not happy DE. All I wanted was a little dispenser for frames and you can't even let me have that without messing with it. Hype killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_junguler Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said: As I said before even if they nerf it to unmodded strength it's still 50%. It's a 1.5x multiplier to everything you do. It's still going to be MILES better than 90% of the whole workshop. yes, but not enough to go thru 3 levels of the syndicate and feed god knows how much resources to that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_junguler Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 1 minute ago, Traubenzuckr said: there are frames other than wisp, and other interesting choices for wisp to replace her poorly scaling ult. equinox 2 for example, look it up, it increases damage enemies take which is good with wisp 3 using wisp for her 1 only, and buffing that ability, is extremely boring. i only use her for the first ability and the amazing movement animations and idle stances she has, that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysus41 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 So, when was the public test cluster that provided the data needed for those changes? did I miss the memo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSiawPrime Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 2016-2018 DE: Woah this bug is being used by the community? We will make it an actual feature so people have fun playing our game. 2019 DE : You guys having fun? It’s NERF time. 2020 DE : You guys thought about having fun? Nerfs everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proscriptor Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, _junguler said: i only use her for the first ability and the amazing movement animations and idle stances she has, that's good enough for me. that means the helminth system is not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Symb10nt Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said: PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below: The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities: Rhino - Roar Diminished Damage increase Mirage - Eclipse Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction Valkyr - Warcry Attack speed increase reduced Protea - Dispenser Duration reduced Nidus - Larva Radius reduced Wukong - Defy Armor capped Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules? It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused. So why not make the Ability on the Warframe it came from better? Making the option of choosing that warframe more desirable then ripping its ability off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterboytkd Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said: AUGUST 19TH UPDATE: Greetings, Tenno! The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition. PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below: The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities: Rhino - Roar Diminished Damage increase Mirage - Eclipse Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction Valkyr - Warcry Attack speed increase reduced Protea - Dispenser Duration reduced Nidus - Larva Radius reduced Wukong - Defy Armor capped Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules? It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused. PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. That’s all for now! My personal take on this: this is the harder approach to balance with Infusion. The entire system can basically be summed up "find a way to break your Warframe!", which is great. But nerfing some Infusions is going to be a balance game where you're trying to balance on the razor's edge: it'll either be 'overtuned' and be a dominant pick choice, or it'll be a neutered version and won't be picked at all. Take something like Roar. What's the right amount of damage boost where this sits between "OMG OP" and "meh, why bother?" Plus, you have to consider that some of these abilities are pretty mediocre...until you slot in their augment. Smite is the perfect example. It's garbo. But Smite Infusion is the bee's knees. How will a nerfed Roar/Warcry compare against Smite Infusion? Especially considering that Smite Infusion was already a very powerful contender vs unnerfed versions? If you guys (the devs) are worried that some abilities would be/are dominant, rather than weaken them, look to either A) buff the other abilities (probably the original versions, like you've done already for Well of Life; it is now a very good team healing ability, especially on non-Trinity warframes), or B) change the other Infusions to a stronger ability. I, personally, think A is the way to balance Infusions. Especially when you consider that this system gives us, the players, a way to gloss over blemishes in our warframes' kits, but doesn't actually address the issue that many warframes are in need of some TLC. So I suggest not nerfing, and instead lean into the "find a way to break your Warframe!" theme, and buff the underused abilities rather than nerf the ones that are clearly very good. EDIT: I also think you should scrap the "one damage buffing ability" rule. It's actually arbitrary. What's a damage buffing ability? Smite Infusion is a damage buffing ability (even though Smite isn't). Breach Surge is, basically, a damage buffing ability. This rule, coupled with the proposed nerfs, will probably only serve to having other abilities be the dominant ones. Again, lean into the "become busted" theme. It'll definitely make for happier players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanshouTenno Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said: AUGUST 19TH UPDATE: Greetings, Tenno! The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition. PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below: The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities: Rhino - Roar Diminished Damage increase Mirage - Eclipse Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction Valkyr - Warcry Attack speed increase reduced Protea - Dispenser Duration reduced Nidus - Larva Radius reduced Wukong - Defy Armor capped Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules? It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused. PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. That’s all for now! I HAVE to be honest here and say that you killed the enthusiasm I had for this. Why do you edge us like this ? It's tennocon 2019 all over again. Here's what you need to do: Stop promising fun when you're going to kill the fun immediately after. Seriously, do you ever compare what would be more fun between grinding wf and not playing at all ? I think this should be considered because I'm considering it more and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraekoSilver Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Then why did you pick those powers if they are just going to nerf them anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyrimplaier Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 seriously love that you say your going to devote yourselves to making test cluster for major updates so you can avoid dumb crap like this you are listening and changing a game before the people complaining even have a actual chance to get a hold of the game, nobody here has any freaking clue weather or not something will be broken de included because its a out right lie saying they play tested it, quit panic nerfing stuff when nobody has gotten to use the system because about half the idiots here say its going to be broken and for gods sake use the freaking test clusters you said you were going to use on major updates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, (NSW)Siaw said: 2016-2018 DE: Woah this bug is being used by the community? We will make it an actual feature so people have fun playing our game. 2019 DE : You guys having fun? It’s NERF time. 2020 DE : You guys thought about having fun? Nerfs everywhere. *cough* Viver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AbBaNdOn_ Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 So question... they said they are reducing the price of stuff in Simaris's shop.... So like currently on ps4 a Nidus BP is 50k standing. Thats going to get reduced to 25k standing?? Or was it already reduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godzilla853 Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 Just now, (PS4)AbBaNdOn_ said: So question... they said they are reducing the price of stuff in Simaris's shop.... So like currently on ps4 a Nidus BP is 50k standing. Thats going to get reduced to 25k standing?? Or was it already reduced? already reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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