The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[captainHalide 203]

Not a big fan of dropping the MR requirement down to 8.  12 might a better pick, MR<10s are often still quite green and inexperienced and likely won't be ready to start burning resources or frames.

Nerfs to those abilities isn't the news I was hoping for, but at the same time I felt like the idea of a 400% damage-boosted mesa was a lot to ask for anyways, so while a bit disappointed I'm not surprised.  War Cry, Eclipse and Roar are going to hugely overshadow regardless, but y'know what, fuggit, it's a neat idea to turn our frames up to 11 and power ceilings haven't mattered much outside of steel path, which in turn doesn't matter much either.

So yeah, uh.  We'll see how this is when it drops, I'm still looking forward to it.

Still gonna ask for y'all to bring %health scaling for objects re : vazarin's dash though.  Still salty the three feedback threads on that haven't been addressed.  Not having fun having to play so much goddamn limbo through steel path.

Edited August 19, 2020 by captainHalide

[(NSW)Moctezuma_II 0]

4 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

That’s all for now!

Why cant you just slightly change the damage abilities instead of a nerf and say the helminth changed the way it works (like a ramp up) 

Plus you can give it some personality at the same time

[(PSN)Daemon2688 28]

Whelp, now there's no point in grinding this out. You had it right with the MR requirement at 15, and limiting it to one damage buffing ability per frame. The nerf on the better abilities was completely unnecessary, and removes the main incentive for doing the content. I would understand the obsessive need for "balance" were this a PvP game, but it isn't. This was the wrong move.

[PancakeLord333 63]

Nerfing abilities now means there are effectively 2 Roars 2 Eclipses, 2 Larva abilities (so on so fourth) each with different stats

IMO this is incredibly bad,

1. It kind of smells like conclave-esque balancing to me [aka balancing hell]
2. Its going to be OPAQUE as hell for any player that isnt prepared to sink a lot of time into checking the different stats on the Wiki (because as we all know, half of our actual warframe playtime is actually spent on the wiki)
3. Its only going to get worse with time - like riven balance.
   • What if in a few months, or after a balancing patch, someone finds some uber mega cheesy build with Infused power X on warframe Y - is DE going to start nerfing that one too?
   • Are we going to eventually end up with near on 40 duplicated powers with different stats?
   • This is setting a ludicrous precedent.

DE go back and pick the less meta powers for those warframes (e.g. mirage #2, rhino #1) instead of obfuscating and spaghettifying what was an otherwise interesting late game mechanic.

Edited August 19, 2020 by PancakeLord333

[IceBen 114]

Just remove abilities if they are so obviously better. Nerfing a good ability won't make bad abilities better, it will mean that we use a nerfed ability or we end up not getting an ability from that frame at all we could use.

[(XBOX)InhibitedDegree 6]

The reduction to Mr requirement seems like a mistake. I can't wait to see the support tickets for loss of a frame subsumed too early. 

The adjusted abilities doesn't surprise me. I hope this is an example of tuning it down that way if its too much that they can dial things back up a little.

I have high hopes for the system I have some builds in mind I look forward to testing and perfecting.

I was excited with some of the abilities selected I initially thought we were going to get almost every first ability but some risks and exciting abilities were chosen. 

The customization will be a lot of fun I hope it will create some new possibilities with builds.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix 163]

5 minutes ago, cococciolo said:

but who would bother to go through the entire helminth system just so they can use charge on other frames? the consequence of giving strong abilities to strong frames is that you can give strong abilities to weak frames, giving them a chance to be good.

Same logic could apply to some Warframes in the system. Why bother to farm Nyx, Nekros, Loki, Frost just to add them to other Frames? As some have said this is Rivens 2.0 and even if you nerf the best/most used abilities they will go to "average disposition" while still being better than literally everything else.

Why not just simply rework those weak frames to be engaging and fun to play instead of adding this band aid fix that just opened a whole another level of can of worms and wrong on so many levels while making strong frames even more OP and weak ones become average?

Honestly, I wouldn't even be mad if they pushed HoD back so they can delete this system.

[(NSW)Takami 16]

On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.
 

I don't mean to offend but that's a very weak excuse, from the beginning you guys knew that giving abilities like Roar or Eclipse was going to make players choose those abilities over something like Airbusrt or Temepest Barrage. If you really want players to choose different abilities, then make those abilities that are considered weak a little more attractive or strong.

[_junguler 203]

rip roar, the only thing i was looking forward to from the list, way to kill excitement before the update even hits ...

[Proscriptor 802]

1 minute ago, _junguler said:

rip roar, the only thing i was looking forward to from the list, way to kill excitement before the update even hits ...

there are many other good choices, you just have to discover them

[EdDiesel 55]

Remove damage buff abilities.  Just add damage attacks, support and utility skills that are fun and beneficial at any level.

[_junguler 203]

Just now, Traubenzuckr said:

there are many other good choices, you just have to discover them

roar was the perfect pick for my wisp and her buffing flowers, maybe i put defy on her but she's already surviving everything, shrug.

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix 163]

3 minutes ago, _junguler said:

rip roar, the only thing i was looking forward to from the list, way to kill excitement before the update even hits ...

This is precisely why they are nerfing it and it's justified. Be glad they didn't outright replace it.

[(PSN)Daemon2688 28]

6 minutes ago, PancakeLord333 said:

Nerfing abilities now means there are effectively 2 Roars 2 Eclipses, 2 Larva abilities (so on so fourth) each with different stats

IMO this is incredibly bad,

1. It kind of smells like conclave-esque balancing to me [aka balancing hell]
2. Its going to be OPAQUE as hell for any player that isnt prepared to sink a lot of time into checking the different stats on the Wiki (because as we all know, half of our actual warframe playtime is actually spent on the wiki)
3. Its only going to get worse with time - like riven balance.
   • What if in a few months, or after a balancing patch, someone finds some uber mega cheesy build with Infused power X on warframe Y - is DE going to start nerfing that one too?
   • Are we going to eventually end up with near on 40 duplicated powers with different stats?
   • This is setting a ludicrous precedent.

DE go back and pick the less meta powers for those warframes (e.g. mirage #2, rhino #1) instead of ofuscating and spaghettifying what was an otherwise interesting late game mechanic.

Or, better than nerfing, OR changing which ability it is.... Just let us have nice things.

[(NSW)Siaw 323]

Can we get some actual numbers on the abilities nerfed? It is a 10% nerf on the base ability? Or a 50%? 80%?.

Also adding another cap on the 83% DR on Wukong subsumed ability will just make us use the 90% DR that Nova has, this further proves that DE doesn’t play their own game.

[_junguler 203]

Just now, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

This is precisely why they are nerfing it and it's justified. Be glad they didn't outright replace it.

i don't really care about other powers tho, nerfing this means i probably don't bother with the whole system now ...

[Urlan 3,758]

8 minutes ago, IceBen said:

Just remove abilities if they are so obviously better. Nerfing a good ability won't make bad abilities better, it will mean that we use a nerfed ability or we end up not getting an ability from that frame at all we could use.

I agree that would be the most logical if this is considered a required step pre-launch.

[TheHalfsightedOne 62]

God dangit DE.

This is a system where you D E L E T E     F U L L Y    B U I L T    F R A M E S. It DESERVED to be strong, and high mastery locked ffs.

[Gaz_TTV 315]

2 hours ago, (NSW)Kokojo said:

Would you like to let it be released and then nerfed so people would cry even more?

since you  asked my opinion yes I would. At least we get to have some fun first then

[(XBOX)MetalxPhoenix 163]

2 minutes ago, _junguler said:

i don't really care about other powers tho, nerfing this means i probably don't bother with the whole system now ...

As I said before even if they nerf it to unmodded strength it's still 50%. It's a 1.5x multiplier to everything you do. It's still going to be MILES better than 90% of the whole workshop.

[Proscriptor 802]

1 minute ago, _junguler said:

roar was the perfect pick for my wisp and her buffing flowers, maybe i put defy on her but she's already surviving everything, shrug.

there are frames other than wisp, and other interesting choices for wisp to replace her poorly scaling ult. equinox 2 for example, look it up, it increases damage enemies take which is good with wisp 3

using wisp for her 1 only, and buffing that ability, is extremely boring. 

[Pyus 2,618]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Daemon2688 said:

Just let us have nice things.

Hahaha, no

[OniDax 13,252]

15 minutes ago, PancakeLord333 said:

DE go back and pick the less meta powers for those warframes (e.g. mirage #2, rhino #1) instead of obfuscating and spaghettifying what was an otherwise interesting late game mechanic.

No. I want Eclipse on Umbra. Just restrict already OP frames from using those abilities.

Edited August 19, 2020 by OniDax

[(XBOX)frosty 117360 38]

Not happy DE. All I wanted was a little dispenser for frames and you can't even let me have that without messing with it. Hype killed.

[_junguler 203]

1 minute ago, (XB1)MetalxPhoenix said:

As I said before even if they nerf it to unmodded strength it's still 50%. It's a 1.5x multiplier to everything you do. It's still going to be MILES better than 90% of the whole workshop.

yes, but not enough to go thru 3 levels of the syndicate and feed god knows how much resources to that system.