The Helminth: Dev Workshop

[KuroB]

I really can't fathom how you guys at DE came to the conclusion that MR8 is the rank you want to choose (I guess feedback from the monetization team showed sales of Warframes would be hindered by the "high" MR lock?). Even just leveling all the normal frames to Rank 30 gives enough mastery for MR10. Its even more hilarious because you didn't even bother to change the prior sentence... like MR8 is an experienced player.

I should be disappointed that you nerfed the abilities that were interesting but honestly, I expected as much. If anything DE has proven again that they have absolutely no clue about the game mechanics and will take the laziest approach possible.

Mostly I am just disappointed (not surprised though, considering your known laziness regarding actually improving bad frames) that the changes to abilities you promised were pretty much nonexistent. You talk about abilities being "oppressive" but that only the case because most of the other abilities are just sub-par limiting all choice.

[Modeaus]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

So MR8 players are now considered "very experienced"? That's less than a month of play time. At this point you may as well remove the MR requirement all together. 

[Reaper_Misaki]

PEOPLE PLEASE STOP WHINING AND COMPLAINING ABOUT EVERYTINY THING on warframe abilities for the helminth. just because YOU don't want to have fun doesn't mean you should ruin it for others! and you ruined the fun for other people who were excited about the helminth patch and now we literally don't even want to play because people like you guys who complain and whine and make us not want to play the game which is POLAR OPPOSITE to what DE originally wanted to do in retaining their players. so GOOD LUCK KILLING the game further.

[quietcanary]

5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

I don't care about this. You guys wanted to make this end game players only and I think it was silly to come in with that mentality considering how much players are hyping themselves for this at all levels. It will however make newer players confused and complain about the costs so either way it seems like you guys are in for a good amount of complaining so in the end I wish you had stuck to your guns and gone with whatever you had decided. 

Nerfing abilities based on "feedback" when what you meant was "speculation" that was probably not intended to guide you toward the decision to nerf it is a problem though. The community is screaming that you need to buff some of these trash tier abilities such as lokis, nyx's, and garas contributions and their base abilities but instead we are nerfing utility abilities. In the end everyone is STILL going to use these abilities not because they are over powered, but because they offer something useful and the other choices do not. You can make roar give 10% damage as a buff if you wanted and its still going to be more useful than mind control as a choice. Please actually talk to your community DE we have told you guys that communication has gone downhill over the years and not for a lack on the players end. Use your discords or your content creators or your DESIGN COUNCIL that people paid money to have their opinions heard in. Stop feeding them tid bits to make them feel slightly less useless and actually utilize a resource available to you. You are driving people away with your lack of trying on this front and it would be so easy to give people a chance to feel like the people who believed you from the beginning again.

 

[Kokokojo]

2 hours ago, Gaz_TTV said:

since you  asked my opinion yes I would. At least we get to have some fun first then

Then make a video complaning about how DE nerf the fun.

I see

[(PSN)LordRomanix]

6 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

To offer further clarification on why we changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite to MR 8:

There's many factors that come into play in order to engage with the Helminth system, such as:

• Having an ongoing supply of Resources that you don't need elsewhere to feed your Helminth
• Working your way up the Helminth rankings to unlock more features
• Having Warframes your ready/willing to Subsume

Looking at the above, we can see that higher rank players will be more equipped to offer these things to Helminth out the gate, where a MR 8 player will start with more accessible/cheaper Helminth Abilities first before diving deeper. Thus allowing MR 8 players to participate in Helminth and grow as they go.

I don't normally get involved in these forum discussions but upon hearing about this change I had to say something.

This is honestly a poor decision. This system is meant to be for experienced players. MR8 is still beginner levels and lowering the requirement is just begging for more issues with content drought.

Newer players should have something to grind for. They should want to try their best to acquire and learn the powers of each Warframe so they're prepared for the system as an endgame reward.

Handing it to these new players will just cause more confusion than there already is.

[Fluttershy93]

Just now, (PS4)Romanis95 said:

I don't normally get involved in these forum discussions but upon hearing about this change I had to say something.

This is honestly poor decision. This system is meant to be for experienced players. MR8 is still beginner levels and lowering the requirement is just begging for more issues with content drought.

Newer players should have something to grind for. They should want to try their best to acquire and learn the powers of each Warframe so they're prepared for the system as an endgame reward.

Handing it to these new players will just cause more confusion than there already is.

You know it is bad when people that never post start posting to tell people their opinion yikes

[TheArcSet]

On 2020-08-12 at 6:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Sorry, but I've got to say this update seems rather short sighted:

Unless you dampen those abilities to the point where they're not worth having, they will still be the most in demand, as they increase damage and that's about the only play-style that isn't niche. Surely improving other infusions or the new abilities, would have been better, even if you had to withhold some frames from thew launch.

Reducing the MR cap is unlikely to have much positive benefits and may well encourage more MR8s who are burned out on the game, or who have never looked at it outside a speed guide.

This decision seems at odds with what you claimed you intention was for the system.

Finally, announcing this with less than a week to go, is not going to instil confidence; these issues were being discussion in the forums before the 1st workshop post, because they were immediately obvious; even if most people initially assumed that pure damage buffs wouldn't even be on the table (aside from the one you demo-ed and it's counterparts, that you decided against).

[(PSN)Daemon2688]

Also, so you're gonna refund everyone's time and effort farming base frame parts, for a system that is no longer worth grinding, right?

[fdlakjfkl]

Why nerf this system before it even comes out? Not like we can just put these abilities on anywarframe and have 300% power strength at the same time. At least wait till it comes out before deciding to nerf it. And why lower the mastery requirement? This supposed to be for "endgame" player. I'm don't care about mastery level, but new players all ready have enough content to play through, you don't need to throw every new content at their face, that's not how you attract more players.

[nslay]

On 2020-08-12 at 1:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

We consider this a customization system for very experienced Warframe players (Mastery Rank 15 8 Prerequisite).

Well, maybe M15 was too high... What about M10 and must have beat Steel Path? That would add a cool and worthy reward to Steel Path and make veterans feel like you're keeping to the spirit of intending this to be for very experienced players (though MR largely means nothing).

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

EDIT: We have also changed the Mastery Rank Prerequisite of the Helminth Segment to 8 (was 15).

That’s all for now!

If we look up the word Diminished means...https://www.dictionary.com/browse/diminished?s=t

That mean it is really bad for I mean REAALLY BAAD!

lemme guess 20% roar that is all your getting out the dmg?  What a mediocre you just made Helminth, now you just trying make it another RJ incident all over again.  It better be up to 35% for when I am using normal strength that is 100% for no one is going use 30% or below that because it isn't worth it because we know Rhino's roar would be useless like nekros's soul punch. if it got to that point.

 

 

 

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Well, maybe M15 was too high... What about M10 and must have beat Steel Path? That would add a cool and worthy reward to Steel Path and make veterans feel like you're keeping to the spirit of intending this to be for very experienced players (though MR largely means nothing).

The idea of having to fight Steel Path Ropalolyst just to change out Radial Javelin would make me hate the Helminth system instead of just being disappointment in it.

[(PSN)Goo-sama_]

I hate how people complain that something’s going to be powerful. This is a PvE focused game, stop getting upset because people are building themselves to be strong as hell. 

[TheArcSet]

1 hour ago, Redfeather75 said:

I learned that I need to farm syndicate to rank 3. I am so sick of that. I picked up remnant and I'm glad I did. I just can't come back to warframe to farm more #*!%ing syndicate for everything.

I mean, that's the least downer bit in the new update; we always knew it was from the syndicate and it was unlikely to be from the 1st level; still, 3 is much easier than 5.

Over all, the way these last minute changes are being handled definitely does not instil confidence, or the idea that this system has been fully thought through.

[nslay]

Just now, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

The idea of having to fight Steel Path Ropalolyst just to change out Radial Javelin would make me hate the Helminth system instead of just being disappointment in it.

Why? Ropalolyst isn't too bad in Steel Path. It's like 25-30 minutes (can be even be done in less!) if you have the gear and do it right.

[Decinomic0n]

Seriously DE you can't even let us try it before you nerf things. MR 8 is not an endgame player, when I started playing I was gaining an MR level every day, it takes a week to get to MR 8. If the fact that a few abilities are good "takes away player choice" says that things need to be buffed. I mean decoy and mind control, seriously? You can't just fill 1/2 the list with trash tier abilities, 1/4 with alright abilities, and 1/4 with always good abilities and expect anyone to use the trash tier abilities. Honestly you guys need to stop focusing on new content and fix the game as it is. There are plenty frames that barely get used because others do their job better who would love an update, or the fact that you still after a year have not added a way to have AI crews for railjack, or that kuva liches still arent really a good system. Stop having new big open worlds be the focus when the rest of the game is suffering. I used to love you guys and your game, but with every big update I get more and more disappointed. You need to take the time to fix the mistakes you made before you make more.

[Grey_Star_Rival_Defender]

Just now, nslay said:

Why? Ropalolyst isn't too bad in Steel Path. It's like 25-30 minutes (can be even be done in less!) if you have the gear and do it right.

I have brought the Paracesis to it's near complete form. I have tried my best to turn Excalibur Umbra into a vessel of sheer, utter death. I don't have the patience or interest in getting a better Operator just to fight Flydolon with massive health buffs.

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

subsumed airburst nerf when?

[ChaoticEdge]

On 2020-08-12 at 12:27 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

AUGUST 19TH UPDATE:

Greetings, Tenno!

The launch of Heart of Deimos grows near, and we have some Helminth updates since we last posted! Below are 2 parts of updated/clarifying information that touches both Infused Warframe Abilities and the Helminth Segment acquisition.  

PART 1 - Changes to select Infused Warframe Abilities

Please keep in mind we’re still testing/playing around with the values for each, hence why the values are not present below:

The following only apply to Infused Warframe Abilities:

Rhino - Roar
Diminished Damage increase

Mirage - Eclipse
Diminished Damage increase and cap Damage Reduction 

Valkyr - Warcry
Attack speed increase reduced

Protea - Dispenser
Duration reduced

Nidus - Larva
Radius reduced

Wukong - Defy
Armor capped

Why do these Infused Warframe Abilities have these rules?
It was apparent in player feedback and play testing that these Infused Warframe Abilities had the potential to be the overwhelming choice; which is not ideal. Instead of changing the Ability outright due to those concerns, we decided to give them slight rules when Infused.

PART 2 - Helminth Segment Acquisition

As already indicated in this Dev Workshops original post, the Helminth Segment is acquired in the Heart of Deimos in the Entrati Syndicate. To expand on that, this means you’ll need to progress within the Entrati Syndicate located within the Necralisk to obtain the Helminth Segment before you can start experimenting with everything Helminth. 

Without spoiling too much, the Helminth Segment is currently obtained in Rank 3 of the Entrati Syndicate. This reminder is simply to set expectations on what you’ll have access to upon logging into the Heart of Deimos. 

lots heavy nerfing going on around here.  Do you think DE is making a wise chose or terrible chose?  The fact is right now I am worried about it might turn out be another RJ issues on day 1 it came out but without the bugs but litter-y just you know hype died for all for nothing.  The expectation of such high hype, dies for all I can think DE is killing the hype train here.  Time discuss will it be ok with all the players and the communties with this "heavy nerf"?

[(XBOX)Mr Daddy Dax]

It's not rhinos roar if it doesn't give the original buff that it gave to rhino...I'm truly confused as to why you would do this? I thought the point of this whole thing was so we "end game" players could create some sick and over powered builds!? Having OP abilities and weapons makes the game fun! Don't overthink it so much and just have fun with it people...tenno are supposed to be OP and bad ass! 

[nslay]

Just now, Grey_Star_Rival_Defender said:

I have brought the Paracesis to it's near complete form. I have tried my best to turn Excalibur Umbra into a vessel of sheer, utter death. I don't have the patience or interest in getting a better Operator just to fight Flydolon with massive health buffs.

You don't need a better operator. You just need a better Amp. I didn't exploit any operator capabilities when I did it. A clan mate used Volt and made the fight faster by using the Amp through the shield.

What I didn't like was that you need to kill some enemies sometimes or the mission will timeout. Usually I just ignore all the enemies and focus on bosses. Very annoying that...

[Elysium47]

DE: we’re nerfing these good and actually worthwhile abilities

also DE: we’re giving you Decoy and Mind Control too! They don’t need buffs, do they?

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

They warned that there might be changes before launch, better to make the changes now instead of changing them later and piss some people off. 

[kgabor]

1 minute ago, LordPantaloonsthe3rd said:

subsumed airburst nerf when?

This! It utterly breaks the game.

I need Zephyr to keep being the op frame.